The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.

Obama's transition choices

Joe ChemoJoe Chemo Registered User regular
edited November 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
So, Obama might have offered Clinton the Sec State position today.

Good idea, bad idea?

Clinton by herself as Sec State doesn't bother me, but I think Bill Clinton would complicate things.

Joe Chemo on
«13

Posts

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Bill was active during the primaries but I very much doubt he has any say in her actual political doings.

    Quid on
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Does she have a background in foreign relations?

    Scalfin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • Joe ChemoJoe Chemo Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Does she have a background in foreign relations?

    She met with heads of state in the 90's as first lady.

    Joe Chemo on
  • Premier kakosPremier kakos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    Joe Chemo wrote: »
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Does she have a background in foreign relations?

    She met with heads of state in the 90's as first lady.

    She also ducked sniper fire in Bosnia. Don't forget that!

    Premier kakos on
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Clinton at State isn't a bad idea, as long as she works in concert with Obama, and not in opposition. The big plus she brings (and it is a BIG plus) is that she has good rapport with the leaders of most major nations, meaning that she can hit the ground running.

    I would say the key postings are going to be (other than State) SecDef and AG. SecDef mainly because of the need to have a strong leader to get the things Obama wants through the military, and AG because - let's face it - the DOJ is an absolute wreck.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Pros: It gets Clinton out of the senate where she could possibly cause trouble. Gets her out of domestic policy altogether.

    Cons: Clinton as SecState.

    I'm not a fan of the choice, but I don't see an alternative that I'm a huge fan of, either. As long as Bill stays away and she doesn't go behind Obama's back, she wouldn't be a terrible choice.

    Tomanta on
  • Dead Guy PerezDead Guy Perez Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    The big plus she brings (and it is a BIG plus) is that she has good rapport with the leaders of most major nations, meaning that she can hit the ground running.

    I'm not sure I agree. It seems to me some of the worst screw-ups in the U.S.'s recent dealings with the rest of the world have stemmed from putting too much weight on personal relationships with foreign leaders. For example, the United States under the last administration didn't so much have an alliance with Pakistan as it had an alliance with Pervez Musharraf, and I'm convinced that Bill Clinton's public chumminess with Yeltsin right up until the end did lasting damage to U.S.-Russian relations.

    Dead Guy Perez on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Does she have a background in foreign relations?

    Senate Armed Services Committee, plus whatever she did as First Lady to get connections with the right people.

    It would be pretty shrewd since she can't complain about anything the administration does if she's part of the administration. I wonder what Biden has to say about it. ...when they can say anything about it other than 'no comment.'

    moniker on
  • SalSal Damnedest Little Fellow Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I hope it's just rumor. Having Clinton as SecState would totally undermine the approach to diplomacy Obama has been advocating throughout the campaign. Honestly, I'd prefer Kerry.

    Sal on
    xet8c.gif


  • Joe ChemoJoe Chemo Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Sal wrote: »
    I hope it's just rumor. Having Clinton as SecState would totally undermine the approach to diplomacy Obama has been advocating throughout the campaign. Honestly, I'd prefer Kerry.

    What do you mean by that?

    Joe Chemo on
  • ahavaahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Wouldnt' she be better off in something like HHS?

    I mean, that would help her with the whole Healthcare thing that she seems to be so big on.

    I dont know about this. I honestly am pining for Bill Richardson for SecState.

    And if he doesnt get it, that would make it the first thing I've gotten wrong during this election cycle.

    ahava on
  • SalSal Damnedest Little Fellow Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Joe Chemo wrote: »
    Sal wrote: »
    I hope it's just rumor. Having Clinton as SecState would totally undermine the approach to diplomacy Obama has been advocating throughout the campaign. Honestly, I'd prefer Kerry.

    What do you mean by that?

    One of the big issues throughout the primaries and the general was the whole "meet without preconditions" thing. Now obviously Obama's position was distorted by his opposition, but the fact remains that he and Clinton have different foreign policy outlooks.

    Sal on
    xet8c.gif


  • ZimmydoomZimmydoom Accept no substitutes Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I thought he'd offer her HHS with the understanding that her role would expand to include oversight and regulation of health insurance providers, though on his terms, not hers. I figured if there was anything that would coax her out of the senate it would be that. But then again I guess Kennedy and Dodd are pissed at her trying to dominate the issue, so maybe it would have been politically unwise to give her special clout in that regard.

    Zimmydoom on
    Better-than-birthday-sig!
    Gim wrote: »
    Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
    Flew away in a balloon
    Had sex with polar bears
    While sitting in a reclining chair
    Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
    Running around and clawing eyelids
    Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Pros: It gets Clinton out of the senate where she could possibly cause trouble. Gets her out of domestic policy altogether.

    Cons: Clinton as SecState.

    I'm not a fan of the choice, but I don't see an alternative that I'm a huge fan of, either. As long as Bill stays away and she doesn't go behind Obama's back, she wouldn't be a terrible choice.

    Actually her out of domestic policy is not really a pro and she wouldn't be a terrible Sec State, but I don't get why she'd want this. Her issue of passion is health care. This takes her away from that when there's the best chance to get some reform passed and she'd like to have input on it. I'm very confused.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • Joe ChemoJoe Chemo Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Pros: It gets Clinton out of the senate where she could possibly cause trouble. Gets her out of domestic policy altogether.

    Cons: Clinton as SecState.

    I'm not a fan of the choice, but I don't see an alternative that I'm a huge fan of, either. As long as Bill stays away and she doesn't go behind Obama's back, she wouldn't be a terrible choice.

    Actually her out of domestic policy is not really a pro and she wouldn't be a terrible Sec State, but I don't get why she'd want this. Her issue of passion is health care. This takes her away from that when there's the best chance to get some reform passed and she'd like to have input on it. I'm very confused.

    Olbermann mentioned that if she remained in the senate she might not have much say in health care legislation due to seniority issues. Perhaps this plays a role.

    Joe Chemo on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Sal wrote: »
    Joe Chemo wrote: »
    Sal wrote: »
    I hope it's just rumor. Having Clinton as SecState would totally undermine the approach to diplomacy Obama has been advocating throughout the campaign. Honestly, I'd prefer Kerry.

    What do you mean by that?

    One of the big issues throughout the primaries and the general was the whole "meet without preconditions" thing. Now obviously Obama's position was distorted by his opposition, but the fact remains that he and Clinton have different foreign policy outlooks.

    I think it was more that she was afraid of being boxed into a corner as 'weak on defense' since she obviously wants to have tea and crumpets with Ahmadinejead while discussing our surrender of Israel. Besides which, that's not really a major foreign policy outlook it's just different tactics to achieve the same strategic ends. She strikes me as a realist rather than hewing dearly to various theories.

    moniker on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Pros: It gets Clinton out of the senate where she could possibly cause trouble. Gets her out of domestic policy altogether.

    Cons: Clinton as SecState.

    I'm not a fan of the choice, but I don't see an alternative that I'm a huge fan of, either. As long as Bill stays away and she doesn't go behind Obama's back, she wouldn't be a terrible choice.

    Actually her out of domestic policy is not really a pro and she wouldn't be a terrible Sec State, but I don't get why she'd want this. Her issue of passion is health care. This takes her away from that when there's the best chance to get some reform passed and she'd like to have input on it. I'm very confused.

    It's all media buzz, at the moment and we won't know for sure before Thanksgiving. He might have offered her ambassador to Bosnia for all we really know.

    moniker on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    Sal wrote: »
    Joe Chemo wrote: »
    Sal wrote: »
    I hope it's just rumor. Having Clinton as SecState would totally undermine the approach to diplomacy Obama has been advocating throughout the campaign. Honestly, I'd prefer Kerry.

    What do you mean by that?

    One of the big issues throughout the primaries and the general was the whole "meet without preconditions" thing. Now obviously Obama's position was distorted by his opposition, but the fact remains that he and Clinton have different foreign policy outlooks.

    I think it was more that she was afraid of being boxed into a corner as 'weak on defense' since she obviously wants to have tea and crumpets with Ahmadinejead while discussing our surrender of Israel. Besides which, that's not really a major foreign policy outlook it's just different tactics to achieve the same strategic ends. She strikes me as a realist rather than hewing dearly to various theories.

    I think she'd make a better Secretary of Defense than State actually. Everything I've read about her record on Armed Services is complimentary.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • ZimmydoomZimmydoom Accept no substitutes Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    He's not offering Defense to anybody for the foreseeable future. Gates isn't going anywhere until we're out of Iraq.

    Zimmydoom on
    Better-than-birthday-sig!
    Gim wrote: »
    Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
    Flew away in a balloon
    Had sex with polar bears
    While sitting in a reclining chair
    Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
    Running around and clawing eyelids
    Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
  • SalSal Damnedest Little Fellow Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    I thought he'd offer her HHS with the understanding that her role would expand to include oversight and regulation of health insurance providers, though on his terms, not hers. I figured if there was anything that would coax her out of the senate it would be that. But then again I guess Kennedy and Dodd are pissed at her trying to dominate the issue, so maybe it would have been politically unwise to give her special clout in that regard.

    Doesn't Dean want HHS?
    moniker wrote: »
    Sal wrote: »
    Joe Chemo wrote: »
    Sal wrote: »
    I hope it's just rumor. Having Clinton as SecState would totally undermine the approach to diplomacy Obama has been advocating throughout the campaign. Honestly, I'd prefer Kerry.

    What do you mean by that?

    One of the big issues throughout the primaries and the general was the whole "meet without preconditions" thing. Now obviously Obama's position was distorted by his opposition, but the fact remains that he and Clinton have different foreign policy outlooks.

    I think it was more that she was afraid of being boxed into a corner as 'weak on defense' since she obviously wants to have tea and crumpets with Ahmadinejead while discussing our surrender of Israel. Besides which, that's not really a major foreign policy outlook it's just different tactics to achieve the same strategic ends. She strikes me as a realist rather than hewing dearly to various theories.

    I suppose you're right, but I do think Clinton is more hawkish than the situation warrents.

    Sal on
    xet8c.gif


  • Bad KittyBad Kitty Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I'm not thrilled about this choice.

    Bad Kitty on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Don't consider it a done deal at this point.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Andrew Sullivan seems to like this pick, and figures it's in line with Obama's philosophy and not really a departure.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Aegis wrote: »
    Andrew Sullivan seems to like this pick, and figures it's in line with Obama's philosophy and not really a departure.

    He hates the Clintons though and is irrational with them so his main reason is that he think she'll have less influence this way.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Ugh, I thought we were done with Clinton drama. And boom here it is again, a full-scale assault of it. What happened to no-drama Obama?

    I don't see the point of having Hillary as Sec-State. Obama is the one the world wants to deal with, he's the one who can actually get certain things done unlike anyone else in the world, what's the point of Clinton? I mean, really? Bosnia-gate again?

    Zoolander on
  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    The conspiracy theorist in me makes me wonder if he promised her the position in exchange for her and Bill campaigning with him prior to the election.

    OremLK on
    My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
  • KungFuKungFu Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    If this was pre-meditated then she wouldn't take time to think about it.

    KungFu on
    Theft 4 Bread
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    KungFu wrote: »
    If this was pre-meditated then she wouldn't take time to think about it.

    Unless she didn't want us to think it was premeditated. Wheels within wheels, man.

    Hachface on
  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Wait, this is HuffPo. Reliable sources are telling a slightly different story... that Obama asked her if she was interested, not outright offered her the position. More "would you take it if I were offering it".

    OremLK on
    My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
  • Low KeyLow Key Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Zoolander wrote: »
    Ugh, I thought we were done with Clinton drama. And boom here it is again, a full-scale assault of it. What happened to no-drama Obama?

    I don't see the point of having Hillary as Sec-State. Obama is the one the world wants to deal with, he's the one who can actually get certain things done unlike anyone else in the world, what's the point of Clinton? I mean, really? Bosnia-gate again?

    Obama is liked for being the most emphatically un-Bush like guy you could ever have as President. The Clinton's are loved because of 8 years of Bill Clinton. Even over here either Clinton is a major draw card, and we have nowhere near the kind of boner that Europe has for them.

    This decision kind of seems like a winner for everyone as long as they can keep Bill on a lead. Hillary knows the territory, and I don't know how all this stuff works but wouldn't SecState be a reasonably decent position to take another crack at the Whitehouse from in 2012?

    Low Key on
  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    2016, you mean? Obama will obviously run in 2012, barring Watergate-style controversy or death.

    Hillary's shot at the White House has narrowed considerably. She'll be nearly McCain age by the time she gets a chance to run again.

    OremLK on
    My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
  • Low KeyLow Key Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Oh shit yeah, 2016. Whenever you people do these things.

    Low Key on
  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Low Key wrote: »
    Zoolander wrote: »
    Ugh, I thought we were done with Clinton drama. And boom here it is again, a full-scale assault of it. What happened to no-drama Obama?

    I don't see the point of having Hillary as Sec-State. Obama is the one the world wants to deal with, he's the one who can actually get certain things done unlike anyone else in the world, what's the point of Clinton? I mean, really? Bosnia-gate again?

    Obama is liked for being the most emphatically un-Bush like guy you could ever have as President. The Clinton's are loved because of 8 years of Bill Clinton. Even over here either Clinton is a major draw card, and we have nowhere near the kind of boner that Europe has for them.

    This decision kind of seems like a winner for everyone as long as they can keep Bill on a lead. Hillary knows the territory, and I don't know how all this stuff works but wouldn't SecState be a reasonably decent position to take another crack at the Whitehouse from in 2012?
    Her (and Bill's) ambition is kind of the main problem. If they were both truly good soldiers who only had the nation's best interests at heart, it wouldn't be a problem, but the fact is they're both power-hungry drama queens and they're going to be undermining Obama whenever they think they can get away with it. Bill Clinton still hasn't gotten over his jealousy of Obama.

    Zoolander on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I honestly am pining for Bill Richardson for SecState.

    And if he doesnt get it, that would make it the first thing I've gotten wrong during this election cycle.

    Richardson governs like George W. Bush (complete with rampant cronyism and brazen attempts to co-opt all serious media scrutiny of him and his administration), and his "record" on diplomacy is overblown. Any serious investigation into him would produce a lot of unwanted skeletons for Obama, and frankly he would ruin the State Department and be run over by any competent head of state or foreign minister. I hope to God this does not happen. There are plenty of people here who ostensibly support any move of him to Washington, but I am certain that it is solely to further their own political ambitions. To quote his old buddy Don Imus, he can't suck enough.

    Crimsondude on
  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I honestly am pining for Bill Richardson for SecState.

    And if he doesnt get it, that would make it the first thing I've gotten wrong during this election cycle.

    Richardson governs like George W. Bush (complete with rampant cronyism and brazen attempts to co-opt all serious media scrutiny of him and his administration), and his "record" on diplomacy is overblown. Any serious investigation into him would produce a lot of unwanted skeletons for Obama, and frankly he would ruin the State Department and be run over by any competent head of state or foreign minister. I hope to God this does not happen. There are plenty of people here who do, but I am certain that it is is solely to further their own political ambitions.
    Richardson has a bunch of things on his resume, but you just don't get the sense that he achieved anything in particular, or is capable of doing so.

    Zoolander on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Zoolander wrote: »
    I honestly am pining for Bill Richardson for SecState.

    And if he doesnt get it, that would make it the first thing I've gotten wrong during this election cycle.

    Richardson governs like George W. Bush (complete with rampant cronyism and brazen attempts to co-opt all serious media scrutiny of him and his administration), and his "record" on diplomacy is overblown. Any serious investigation into him would produce a lot of unwanted skeletons for Obama, and frankly he would ruin the State Department and be run over by any competent head of state or foreign minister. I hope to God this does not happen. There are plenty of people here who do, but I am certain that it is is solely to further their own political ambitions.
    Richardson has a bunch of things on his resume, but you just don't get the sense that he achieved anything in particular, or is capable of doing so.

    Or has any hard and fast beliefs.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I'm still waiting for some change to show up. I appreciate that you need veterans to get things done, but I'll be pretty sad if Obama contents himself on being the only newish person in Washington and everyone else is the same old same old. I guess there's a long time to go yet though, so yeah, I hope he does eventually bring in some fresh, smart people at high positions.

    Zoolander on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    That's because Richardson hasn't accomplished anything. The most significant accomplishment he can point to in his administration so far is a tax cut that is mostly due to his predecessor's leaving a nice surplus and the spike in oil and gas prices. But this douche also proposed a massive highway project, and then gave the money away instead of paying for it, so last year all of the sudden they needed half a billion dollars... which was the same amount as they "gave back" as a "surplus."

    And we have a generous incentive package for the movie and film industry that is actually taking jobs from Hollywood, but so do a lot of other states and other countries. Meanwhile, a company the state gave $20 million to as some sort of great white hope just announced yesterday that they couldn't pay payroll for their employees for the last two weeks of work they did (and they "found" money today, but still) and the company will not last past New Year's.

    Meanwhile, he made an investigative reporter his first Secretary of Labor and the guy was abysmal. It was a joke and a disgrace. And he's hired numerous other reporters simply to get them off his ass.

    Let me be clear, I don't like the man. Not as a politician or a person. And as much as I'd love to see him go, it's not like this.

    Crimsondude on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Zoolander wrote: »
    I'm still waiting for some change to show up. I appreciate that you need veterans to get things done, but I'll be pretty sad if Obama contents himself on being the only newish person in Washington and everyone else is the same old same old. I guess there's a long time to go yet though, so yeah, I hope he does eventually bring in some fresh, smart people at high positions.

    Who should he staff his White House with? There's been one Democratic Administration in 28 years, two in 40. Should he staff his government with neophytes who have no idea how to do anything? That's what killed Clinton's first few years. It looks like he's being pragmatic.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
This discussion has been closed.