That just makes it even more painful. Twilight Princess is a textbook example of caving to fandom. What a mistake.
I think that Miyamoto made a point of saying that TP was the very last Zelda game they were going to do in that style.
But it really was bad compared to Wind Waker, and I can still remember some peoples' defenses of it before it came out. Like one guy saying, "You guys had your easy kiddie Zelda, now let me have my dark, difficult Zelda." Then the difficulty turns out to be even more feeble than WW's. SURPRISE, BOYO!
compare the evolution of the 3D MGS core gameplay to the 3D Zelda core gameplay
Well 4 is a wholly different game. Heck, even by the time we got to 2 it was shifting gear with the fps camera.
The point being is that in 1993 I was picking up a boomerang in Link to the Past. How is it that fucking 15 years later they still use the exact same boomerang mechanic in the same puzzles with the same fetch quests.
Motherfucking Ganon is the same final boss, again...
How creatively malnourished is that series for christs sakes.
compare the evolution of the 3D MGS core gameplay to the 3D Zelda core gameplay
Well 4 is a wholly different game. Heck, even by the time we got to 2 it was shifting gear with the fps camera.
The point being is that in 1993 I was picking up a boomerang in Link to the Past. How is it that fucking 15 years later they still use the exact same boomerang mechanic in the same puzzles with the same fetch quests.
Motherfucking Ganon is the same final boss, again...
How creatively malnourished is that series for christs sakes.
Just curious. Whats your opinion of Majora's Mask?
That just makes it even more painful. Twilight Princess is a textbook example of caving to fandom. What a mistake.
I've played TP once or twice, and both times I wasn't extremely impressed. WW captured this magical, child-like adventurous spirit that the old games used to possess. WW was my OoT.
That just makes it even more painful. Twilight Princess is a textbook example of caving to fandom. What a mistake.
I've played TP once or twice, and both times I wasn't extremely impressed. WW captured this magical, child-like adventurous spirit that the old games used to possess. WW was my OoT.
I didn't own a N64 or even an SNES back in the day. I'm a Zelda fanatic, my early childhood my fondest memories are playing the first two Zelda games on NES, and Link's Awakening on the green-shaded screen of a gameboy while riding on the bus to and from school.
Back when they did the Gamecube deal with the special zelda collector's disc pack, my gf and I bought it together. During xmas break actually, traversing the east coast visiting our families and searching every retail store along the way to get one, from NJ to VA to NC. The next months were spent wrestling for gametime and watching each other play, and yelling at each other ABOUT THOSE GODDAM SKULLTULLAS.
Back on topic: SPORE. After you get past the tribe stage this game felt soooooo bland. Maybe I'm just used to the superior mechanics like the CIV games. Replayability was fun, but eventually got boring. I saw someone else say this in a review, and it captures my feeling exactly: A mile wide and an inch deep.
That just makes it even more painful. Twilight Princess is a textbook example of caving to fandom. What a mistake.
Exatly. Twilight Princess was a paint-by-the-numbers game if i've ever seen one.
They billed it as the second coming of Ocarina, but when it not only didn't deliver, but failed to have it's own identity in the process, I was devastated. You wanna make a new Zelda, fine, but don't dangle a steak in front of a rottweiler before ripping it away and replacing it with tofu at the last damn second.
If this is what Zelda games are going to be like from now on I guess i'll have to look elsewhere.
It wasn't exactly a big-name title by any means, but Drakengard 2 disappointed me so so so much.
I liked Drakengard. I realize I'm in a very slim minority. But the story was so crazy, I couldn't -not- like it.
But Drakengard 2 just went and pissed it all to hell. It was so boring, the characters controlled so poorly, everything felt like a step back.
The only good part of that whole game was:
Caim. After Drakengard and what happened, it just wouldn't have been believable if he ended up being anything BUT completely insane and homicidal. I marked out so hard when the FMV "Caim Appears" played.
So hard.
I just had to vent that. Because while I wasn't expecting anything out of Drakengard 2, I was -still- let-down.
That just makes it even more painful. Twilight Princess is a textbook example of caving to fandom. What a mistake.
Exatly. Twilight Princess was a paint-by-the-numbers game if i've ever seen one.
They billed it as the second coming of Ocarina, but when it not only didn't deliver, but failed to have it's own identity in the process, I was devastated. You wanna make a new Zelda, fine, but don't dangle a steak in front of a rottweiler before ripping it away and replacing it with tofu at the last damn second.
If this is what Zelda games are going to be like from now on I guess i'll have to look elsewhere.
must...resist...urge...to argue....:P
I liked TP. It was a retread in a lot of ways, and too many items were put to little use after their respective dungeons, but I really enjoyed playing it. The only thing that felt familiar to me was the dungeon structure (3 warm up dungeons, 9? "real game" dungeons).
Also, not enough mini dungeons and secrets OTHER than godforsaken heart pieces and rupees. Oh look...100 rupees at the end of this labyrinth...why the fuck did I even come in here.
My love for the game though might just be because of midna. Some hated her and I'm not sure why, but I really liked her story, development, all that, even if it was a little predictable. Also, snowpeak mansion is my favorite zelda dungeon of all time (though it has perhaps one of my least favorite bosses. fuckin weak sauce).
In a lot of ways though, I find humor in the frustrations people had with TP. The majority of it, as Scarab said, was Nintendo caving into fan service. TP is essentially what everyone wanted WW to be, at least when WW came out. And yet, so many people hated the fact that it was exactly what they asked for: an ode to Ocarina of Time. In relation to OoT, I'd say it's a pretty worthy tribute game, but compared to WW, it's definitely a few steps back in terms of style, charm, and intrigue.
But at least it was a fuckin finished game. WW was quickly becoming my favorite zelda during my first play through...until the end deteriorated into a fetch quest and the remaining dungeons I was so anxiously anticipating suddenly became nothing more than minor bumps in the way.
That just makes it even more painful. Twilight Princess is a textbook example of caving to fandom. What a mistake.
Exatly. Twilight Princess was a paint-by-the-numbers game if i've ever seen one.
They billed it as the second coming of Ocarina, but when it not only didn't deliver, but failed to have it's own identity in the process, I was devastated.
Limed for truth. TP is polished to perfection but it's completely artificial and charmless. Also its style and story never rise above the level of terrible fanfic.
That just makes it even more painful. Twilight Princess is a textbook example of caving to fandom. What a mistake.
Exatly. Twilight Princess was a paint-by-the-numbers game if i've ever seen one.
They billed it as the second coming of Ocarina, but when it not only didn't deliver, but failed to have it's own identity in the process, I was devastated. You wanna make a new Zelda, fine, but don't dangle a steak in front of a rottweiler before ripping it away and replacing it with tofu at the last damn second.
If this is what Zelda games are going to be like from now on I guess i'll have to look elsewhere.
must...resist...urge...to argue....:P
I liked TP. It was a retread in a lot of ways, and too many items were put to little use after their respective dungeons, but I really enjoyed playing it. The only thing that felt familiar to me was the dungeon structure (3 warm up dungeons, 9? "real game" dungeons).
Also, not enough mini dungeons and secrets OTHER than godforsaken heart pieces and rupees. Oh look...100 rupees at the end of this labyrinth...why the fuck did I even come in here.
My love for the game though might just be because of midna. Some hated her and I'm not sure why, but I really liked her story, development, all that, even if it was a little predictable. Also, snowpeak mansion is my favorite zelda dungeon of all time (though it has perhaps one of my least favorite bosses. fuckin weak sauce).
In a lot of ways though, I find humor in the frustrations people had with TP. The majority of it, as Scarab said, was Nintendo caving into fan service. TP is essentially what everyone wanted WW to be, at least when WW came out. And yet, so many people hated the fact that it was exactly what they asked for: an ode to Ocarina of Time. In relation to OoT, I'd say it's a pretty worthy tribute game, but compared to WW, it's definitely a few steps back in terms of style, charm, and intrigue.
But at least it was a fuckin finished game. WW was quickly becoming my favorite zelda during my first play through...until the end deteriorated into a fetch quest and the remaining dungeons I was so anxiously anticipating suddenly became nothing more than minor bumps in the way.
I dunno, I left TP thinking it was too short- and then had my friends tell me it was actually a long time.
"Wait, wha...?"
The two best parts in the game:
Seriously, surprise mansion dungeon. Very creative. And the sand dungeon level, with the crazy spinner.
Else, it felt a little shallow. I've done the same song and dance before.
Which is in stark comparison to Majora's Mask, a game that haunted me so much that I can barely stand it.
That goddamn grin on that goddamn Moon still makes me nervously close my blinds at night. THAT is something I want to see more of. Or how I still hesitate each time before entering of the Shadow Temple in OT. Sigh....
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Man I loved Windwaker, but for gods sake I hated Twighlight. 40 hours in and it felt like there was no story progression, just carrot-stick "ooo that key you were going to get, it blew up! and is now in 8 pieces, and now 16, and now 24". I mean Windwaker was guilty of this, but not on the sheer scale Twighlight was. I put so much time into that game and it didnt reward me at all.
Man I loved Windwaker, but for gods sake I hated Twighlight. 40 hours in and it felt like there was no story progression, just carrot-stick "ooo that key you were going to get, it blew up! and is now in 8 pieces, and now 16, and now 24". I mean Windwaker was guilty of this, but not on the sheer scale Twighlight was. I put so much time into that game and it didnt reward me at all.
compare the evolution of the 3D MGS core gameplay to the 3D Zelda core gameplay
Well 4 is a wholly different game. Heck, even by the time we got to 2 it was shifting gear with the fps camera.
The point being is that in 1993 I was picking up a boomerang in Link to the Past. How is it that fucking 15 years later they still use the exact same boomerang mechanic in the same puzzles with the same fetch quests.
Motherfucking Ganon is the same final boss, again...
How creatively malnourished is that series for christs sakes.
Speaking of the boomerang reminds me how good the controls for phantom hourglass were. That game fits in this thread for me, the control scheme was SO GOOD, they did a fantastic job capturing the WW style and applying it to the DS and yet they completely FUCKED the game up. Somehow sailing is made infinitely more boring than WW, and that fucking temple that you have to keep going back to EVERY DAMN TIME made me give up on the game. They managed to fuck it up so badly that I gave up on a zelda game. That's a real accomplishment.
Urgh, just thinking about it reminds me of that damn temple. It's like all of my hates put together in a shrine to shittyness. Invincible enemies, half assed stealth, time limits and then making you do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Yeah it speeds up every time but it was still enough of a massive pain in the ass that it killed the game for me.
compare the evolution of the 3D MGS core gameplay to the 3D Zelda core gameplay
Well 4 is a wholly different game. Heck, even by the time we got to 2 it was shifting gear with the fps camera.
The point being is that in 1993 I was picking up a boomerang in Link to the Past. How is it that fucking 15 years later they still use the exact same boomerang mechanic in the same puzzles with the same fetch quests.
Motherfucking Ganon is the same final boss, again...
How creatively malnourished is that series for christs sakes.
Speaking of the boomerang reminds me how good the controls for phantom hourglass were. That game fits in this thread for me, the control scheme was SO GOOD, they did a fantastic job capturing the WW style and applying it to the DS and yet they completely FUCKED the game up. Somehow sailing is made infinitely more boring than WW, and that fucking temple that you have to keep going back to EVERY DAMN TIME made me give up on the game. They managed to fuck it up so badly that I gave up on a zelda game. That's a real accomplishment.
Urgh, just thinking about it reminds me of that damn temple. It's like all of my hates put together in a shrine to shittyness. Invincible enemies, half assed stealth, time limits and then making you do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Yeah it speeds up every time but it was still enough of a massive pain in the ass that it killed the game for me.
The Temple of the Ocean King is actually tons of fun once you get over yourself and allow yourself to enjoy yourself for what it is (I know because I had to do so myself). It is more MGS than Zelda, but does an awesome job at that. Finding the best route to take is very exhilarating and rewarding.
Correct me if I'm wrong, and I very easily could be since I haven't been a religious Zelda player but...
Were the Zelda games ever known for their deep, immersive story? They always seemed pretty basic to me. Not only the level of a Mario Bros. game, of course, but seems like the series was always more about exploration and creating a certain kind of atmosphere as opposed to some sort of great plot. That's one reason I was excited about TP when it was in development; it looked dark, moody and evocative. Of course, I never got to play it, so I don't know how well it delivered on that.
Although I feel like OoT was flawed in many ways, this was one thing that they did get right in it, at least in many places. The Fire Temple and the Forest Temple were both pitch-perfect; I really felt like I was exploring the ruins of some grand, lost world, and the music complimented them perfectly.
And of course, when you grow up and walk outside the Temple of Time, seeing Hyrule Castle Town overrun by Redeads, while a glowing halo of fire floats over Death Mountain in the distance...awesome.
Which is one reason I got a little bit pissed when these things got fixed when you beat the Temples. Save that stuff for the ending, guys.
compare the evolution of the 3D MGS core gameplay to the 3D Zelda core gameplay
Well 4 is a wholly different game. Heck, even by the time we got to 2 it was shifting gear with the fps camera.
The point being is that in 1993 I was picking up a boomerang in Link to the Past. How is it that fucking 15 years later they still use the exact same boomerang mechanic in the same puzzles with the same fetch quests.
Motherfucking Ganon is the same final boss, again...
How creatively malnourished is that series for christs sakes.
Speaking of the boomerang reminds me how good the controls for phantom hourglass were. That game fits in this thread for me, the control scheme was SO GOOD, they did a fantastic job capturing the WW style and applying it to the DS and yet they completely FUCKED the game up. Somehow sailing is made infinitely more boring than WW, and that fucking temple that you have to keep going back to EVERY DAMN TIME made me give up on the game. They managed to fuck it up so badly that I gave up on a zelda game. That's a real accomplishment.
Urgh, just thinking about it reminds me of that damn temple. It's like all of my hates put together in a shrine to shittyness. Invincible enemies, half assed stealth, time limits and then making you do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Yeah it speeds up every time but it was still enough of a massive pain in the ass that it killed the game for me.
The Temple of the Ocean King is actually tons of fun once you get over yourself and allow yourself to enjoy yourself for what it is (I know because I had to do so myself). It is more MGS than Zelda, but does an awesome job at that. Finding the best route to take is very exhilarating and rewarding.
Twlight Princess is still the best Zelda.
People rabbit on about how the series is meant to be tapping into Arthurian fantasy and so forth, but TP is the only one to remotely pull it off. Compared to the crude, ugly tweeness of Ocarina, the game is miraculous- an actual epic fantasy adventure game, with by far the most beautiful dungeons and setpieces in the entire series.
If you'd rather focus on childlike charm, Minish Cap is the best zelda at that. Wind Waker could have been, but it has so many flaws.
compare the evolution of the 3D MGS core gameplay to the 3D Zelda core gameplay
Well 4 is a wholly different game. Heck, even by the time we got to 2 it was shifting gear with the fps camera.
The point being is that in 1993 I was picking up a boomerang in Link to the Past. How is it that fucking 15 years later they still use the exact same boomerang mechanic in the same puzzles with the same fetch quests.
Motherfucking Ganon is the same final boss, again...
How creatively malnourished is that series for christs sakes.
Speaking of the boomerang reminds me how good the controls for phantom hourglass were. That game fits in this thread for me, the control scheme was SO GOOD, they did a fantastic job capturing the WW style and applying it to the DS and yet they completely FUCKED the game up. Somehow sailing is made infinitely more boring than WW, and that fucking temple that you have to keep going back to EVERY DAMN TIME made me give up on the game. They managed to fuck it up so badly that I gave up on a zelda game. That's a real accomplishment.
Urgh, just thinking about it reminds me of that damn temple. It's like all of my hates put together in a shrine to shittyness. Invincible enemies, half assed stealth, time limits and then making you do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Yeah it speeds up every time but it was still enough of a massive pain in the ass that it killed the game for me.
The Temple of the Ocean King is actually tons of fun once you get over yourself and allow yourself to enjoy yourself for what it is (I know because I had to do so myself). It is more MGS than Zelda, but does an awesome job at that. Finding the best route to take is very exhilarating and rewarding.
No seriously, that place was utter garbage.
You should really go back and finish the game. Those enemies aren't invincible forever, and when you can finally go back and destroy them, you'll feel SOOOO good because you hated them SOOOOO much!
Not in any sense of the word. Not in terms of graphics (still Wind Waker), sound (I think we can all agree the OoT soundtrack is still the most amazing one), gameplay (Phantom Hourglass and Four Swords Adventures have the best/most fun gameplay in the series), or story (Majora's Mask > all). So there is nothing left where it could conceivably the best in. Controls and fluidity of the animation, perhaps, but that is to be expected since it is the most recent along with PH, which also has perfect controls. So that is merely due to technical progress of the gaming industry as a whole. Seriously, TP is a good game but extremely mediocre compared to the revolutions (excusez le mot) that came before it.
compare the evolution of the 3D MGS core gameplay to the 3D Zelda core gameplay
Well 4 is a wholly different game. Heck, even by the time we got to 2 it was shifting gear with the fps camera.
The point being is that in 1993 I was picking up a boomerang in Link to the Past. How is it that fucking 15 years later they still use the exact same boomerang mechanic in the same puzzles with the same fetch quests.
Motherfucking Ganon is the same final boss, again...
How creatively malnourished is that series for christs sakes.
Speaking of the boomerang reminds me how good the controls for phantom hourglass were. That game fits in this thread for me, the control scheme was SO GOOD, they did a fantastic job capturing the WW style and applying it to the DS and yet they completely FUCKED the game up. Somehow sailing is made infinitely more boring than WW, and that fucking temple that you have to keep going back to EVERY DAMN TIME made me give up on the game. They managed to fuck it up so badly that I gave up on a zelda game. That's a real accomplishment.
Urgh, just thinking about it reminds me of that damn temple. It's like all of my hates put together in a shrine to shittyness. Invincible enemies, half assed stealth, time limits and then making you do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Yeah it speeds up every time but it was still enough of a massive pain in the ass that it killed the game for me.
The Temple of the Ocean King is actually tons of fun once you get over yourself and allow yourself to enjoy yourself for what it is (I know because I had to do so myself). It is more MGS than Zelda, but does an awesome job at that. Finding the best route to take is very exhilarating and rewarding.
No seriously, that place was utter garbage.
Yes. I, too, gave up on PH the billionth time I went back to the Temple of the Ocean King.
Not in any sense of the word. Not in terms of graphics (still Wind Waker), sound (I think we can all agree the OoT soundtrack is still the most amazing one), gameplay (Phantom Hourglass and Four Swords Adventures have the best/most fun gameplay in the series), or story (Majora's Mask > all). So there is nothing left where it could conceivably the best in. Controls and fluidity of the animation, perhaps, but that is to be expected since it is the most recent along with PH, which also has perfect controls. So that is merely due to technical progress of the gaming industry as a whole. Seriously, TP is a good game but extremely mediocre compared to the revolutions (excusez le mot) that came before it.
TP has, hands down, the best dungeons of any zelda game.
People who didn't like OoT can fall in a well and die.
Nobody is saying OoT was a bad game, I don't think. My main problem with it was that the map design prevented the old zelda-style exploring that I was used to from, say, A Link to the Past.
And yeah, I know a big part of that was hardware limitations, but they could have done more with it than they did. Hyrule field was lame. Plus, there wasn't a hell of a lot to do that I remember, other than finding the spiders. Majora's Mask was undeniably better than OoT as far as the "extra shit" department goes, and that "extra shit" has always been what Zelda was all about to me.
Not in any sense of the word. Not in terms of graphics (still Wind Waker), sound (I think we can all agree the OoT is still the most amazing), gameplay (Phantom Hourglass and Four Swords Adventures have the best gameplay in the series), or story (Majora's Mask > all). So there is nothing left where it could conceivably the best in. Controls and fluidity of the animation, perhaps, but that is to be expected since it is the most recent along with PH, which also has perfect controls. So that is merely due to technical progress of the gaming industry as a whole. Seriously, TP is a good game but extremely mediocre compared to the revolutions (excusez le mot) that came before it.
That's a remarkably narrow-minded view.
Wind Waker had the best graphics, true, but was deeply flawed in dungeon design and exploration.
I'd actually put TP over OOT on sound, but that's a poor reason to single a game out by itself anyway.
Phantom Hourglass only has the best controls in the series. It makes up for them with the least interesting dungeon design. TP, however, has the best dungeon design of any of the Zeldas, due to the fact they actually feel like places rather than just video game levels.
On story, every Zelda except Majora's Mask is kind of poor.
TP is also the best Zelda on setpieces, on building a coherent and realised world, and contains the most well-realised single character (Midna). Just because it's only second-best on graphics doesn't give your arguments much weight, I fear.
On story, every Zelda except Majora's Mask is kind of poor.
Link's Awakening has probably the best and most intriguing story of any game Nintendo has done. Twilight Princess's story is just embarrassing. It takes the worst parts of a couple of other games in the series and ties them together in a narrative that even a third grader would get an F for in writing class. I hinestly feel it is not much better than the worst Zelda fanfic you can find around the 'net.
TP is also the best Zelda on setpieces, on building a coherent and realised world, and contains the most well-realised single character (Midna).
Nope, Skull Kid in MM holds on to that crown. Midna is just Navi tuned to maximum irritation and vapidness. If you honestly think that she is a well-realised and interesting character I actually feel pretty sorry for you since you must've only been exposed to some extremely poor characterization in fiction in your life so far, for her to come across as "good" by comparison.
Just because it's only second-best on graphics doesn't give your arguments much weight, I fear.
That's rich, seeing how you haven't yet made a single coherent or convincing argument in favor of the game yourself.
Not in any sense of the word. Not in terms of graphics (still Wind Waker), sound (I think we can all agree the OoT is still the most amazing), gameplay (Phantom Hourglass and Four Swords Adventures have the best gameplay in the series), or story (Majora's Mask > all). So there is nothing left where it could conceivably the best in. Controls and fluidity of the animation, perhaps, but that is to be expected since it is the most recent along with PH, which also has perfect controls. So that is merely due to technical progress of the gaming industry as a whole. Seriously, TP is a good game but extremely mediocre compared to the revolutions (excusez le mot) that came before it.
That's a remarkably narrow-minded view.
They are only the categorizations that EVERY SINGLE reviewing magazine, website, etc. in the entire world uses, but whatever. What should we judge games on by your standards then? Smell of the disc case when you first open it or something else even more inane?
If this thread is just going to be "my opinion" "what are you, fucking stupid? MY opinion." I'm going to lock it, because guess what? NONE of your opinions. MY opinion.
I know everybody else has said it, but man, Spore.
I wouldn't mind if it was just 5 minigames and a good editor. But they're not.
Since all of them (except UFO) have weapons / parts that are better than others, your creature essentially evolves along a fixed path.
For example, say your creature has hands with 3* strike. If you find some with 5* strike, well, what choice do you have. And if you decide to go for looks rather than skills, you get the shit kicked out of you. You might not have gone for the mouth with 5* Bite, but your neighbours probably did.
This means that when I played a social game, my creature had all 4 social stats maxed out by the end, but I didn't really like the look of my creature.
Ironically the opposite happens in Space, where because everything is just decorative, you may as well save time and have a plain cube for a spaceship.
TP is also the best Zelda on setpieces, on building a coherent and realised world, and contains the most well-realised single character (Midna).
Nope, Skull Kid in MM holds on to that crown. Midna is just Navi tuned to maximum irritation and vapidness. If you honestly think that she is a well-realised and interesting character I actually feel pretty sorry for you since you must've only been exposed to some extremely poor characterization in fiction in your life so far, for her to come across as "good" by comparison.
Do you seriously have to lower yourself to insults in order to get your point across? I can do the same thing and would have just as much credibility as your inflammatory statement. If you honestly think that midna isn't a well-realized and interesting character, I actually feel pretty sorry for you since you must not have understood the basic narrative structure or the way the character arched throughout the game.
In all seriousness, I can understand why someone might not be thrilled with midna's actual back story, but the way her relationship with Link subtly grows throughout the game is not only charming but believable as well. If you don't think so, that's all well and good, but I'm not going to insult your intelligence for not liking a video game character.
If this thread is just going to be "my opinion" "what are you, fucking stupid? MY opinion." I'm going to lock it, because guess what? NONE of your opinions. MY opinion.
o_O What? Who are you referring to? Everybody here is pretty much discussing games on their (objective) merits, isn't that the entire point of this whole forum? Or were you just bored and felt the need to swing around your e-peen just for the hell of it.
If this thread is just going to be "my opinion" "what are you, fucking stupid? MY opinion." I'm going to lock it, because guess what? NONE of your opinions. MY opinion.
o_O What? Who are you referring to? Everybody here is pretty much discussing games on their (objective) merits, isn't that the entire point of this whole forum? Or were you just bored and felt the need to swing around your e-peen just for the hell of it.
Right above you is an example of a post where two people are resorting to personal attacks in their discussion of video games. So I am moderating the thread. If you have a problem with that, feel free to either PM me or shut the fuck up, because those are the only two options available to you.
Do you seriously have to lower yourself to insults in order to get your point across? I can do the same thing and would have just as much credibility as your inflammatory statement.
I am not insulting anybody. Yeah, the writers of TP's story. But that's perfectly allowed. Any movie review does the same. It wasn't meant to flame that poster, I honestly think people who think Midna amounts to "good charcterization" would be blown away by even the most insignifigant character from, say, Mad Men or The Sopranos by comparison. An extra on The Wire has more layers than Midna.
Not in any sense of the word. Not in terms of graphics (still Wind Waker), sound (I think we can all agree the OoT is still the most amazing), gameplay (Phantom Hourglass and Four Swords Adventures have the best gameplay in the series), or story (Majora's Mask > all). So there is nothing left where it could conceivably the best in. Controls and fluidity of the animation, perhaps, but that is to be expected since it is the most recent along with PH, which also has perfect controls. So that is merely due to technical progress of the gaming industry as a whole. Seriously, TP is a good game but extremely mediocre compared to the revolutions (excusez le mot) that came before it.
That's a remarkably narrow-minded view.
They are only the categorizations that EVERY SINGLE reviewing magazine, website, etc. in the entire world uses, but whatever. What should we judge games on by your standards then? Smell of the disc case when you first open it or something else even more inane?
you're being asinine. Even if someone were to concede that all your points are right, which they very well might be, it still doesn't magically make up for the faults found in other zelda games. TP could have come up short in many different areas but still deliver the most coherent package. Many reviewers thought exactly that when they gave it the GOTY award.
Not liking a popular game is fine and the overall purpose of this thread but christ, why does zelda get everyone's panties in a bunch? perhaps i'm guilty of this too, but why can't two dissenting opinions coexists without devolving into attacks?
If this thread is just going to be "my opinion" "what are you, fucking stupid? MY opinion." I'm going to lock it, because guess what? NONE of your opinions. MY opinion.
o_O What? Who are you referring to? Everybody here is pretty much discussing games on their (objective) merits, isn't that the entire point of this whole forum? Or were you just bored and felt the need to swing around your e-peen just for the hell of it.
Eh, there's a fine line between good thread and poll thread.
Say we had a what is the best game ever thread for example. It would essentyially just be 10 pages of "Zelda" "Zelda" "Halo" "Fuck you Gaylo faggot, halo sux" "zelda" "mario 3" "fuck you, mario 3 is not as good as alex kidd in miracle world" "zelda' "zelda"....
There's no discussion there, and thus no thread there.
Do you seriously have to lower yourself to insults in order to get your point across? I can do the same thing and would have just as much credibility as your inflammatory statement.
I am not insulting anybody. Yeah, the writers of TP's story. But that's perfectly allowed. Any movie review does the same. It wasn't meant to flame that poster, I honestly think people who think Midna amounts to "good charcterization" would be blown away by even the most insignifigant character from, say, Mad Men or The Sopranos by comparison. An extra on The Wire has more layers than Midna.
Fair enough. I still have trouble seeing exactly how you're getting to that extreme though.
Do you seriously have to lower yourself to insults in order to get your point across? I can do the same thing and would have just as much credibility as your inflammatory statement.
I am not insulting anybody. Yeah, the writers of TP's story. But that's perfectly allowed. Any movie review does the same. It wasn't meant to flame that poster, I honestly think people who think Midna amounts to "good charcterization" would be blown away by even the most insignifigant character from, say, Mad Men or The Sopranos by comparison. An extra on The Wire has more layers than Midna.
No one is talking about anything outside the context of Zelda. Fuck, Planescape Torment doesn't have the same complexity as Proust's works. It's a shitty game.
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I think that Miyamoto made a point of saying that TP was the very last Zelda game they were going to do in that style.
But it really was bad compared to Wind Waker, and I can still remember some peoples' defenses of it before it came out. Like one guy saying, "You guys had your easy kiddie Zelda, now let me have my dark, difficult Zelda." Then the difficulty turns out to be even more feeble than WW's. SURPRISE, BOYO!
Well 4 is a wholly different game. Heck, even by the time we got to 2 it was shifting gear with the fps camera.
The point being is that in 1993 I was picking up a boomerang in Link to the Past. How is it that fucking 15 years later they still use the exact same boomerang mechanic in the same puzzles with the same fetch quests.
Motherfucking Ganon is the same final boss, again...
How creatively malnourished is that series for christs sakes.
Just curious. Whats your opinion of Majora's Mask?
I've played TP once or twice, and both times I wasn't extremely impressed. WW captured this magical, child-like adventurous spirit that the old games used to possess. WW was my OoT.
I didn't own a N64 or even an SNES back in the day. I'm a Zelda fanatic, my early childhood my fondest memories are playing the first two Zelda games on NES, and Link's Awakening on the green-shaded screen of a gameboy while riding on the bus to and from school.
Back when they did the Gamecube deal with the special zelda collector's disc pack, my gf and I bought it together. During xmas break actually, traversing the east coast visiting our families and searching every retail store along the way to get one, from NJ to VA to NC. The next months were spent wrestling for gametime and watching each other play, and yelling at each other ABOUT THOSE GODDAM SKULLTULLAS.
Back on topic: SPORE. After you get past the tribe stage this game felt soooooo bland. Maybe I'm just used to the superior mechanics like the CIV games. Replayability was fun, but eventually got boring. I saw someone else say this in a review, and it captures my feeling exactly: A mile wide and an inch deep.
Exatly. Twilight Princess was a paint-by-the-numbers game if i've ever seen one.
They billed it as the second coming of Ocarina, but when it not only didn't deliver, but failed to have it's own identity in the process, I was devastated. You wanna make a new Zelda, fine, but don't dangle a steak in front of a rottweiler before ripping it away and replacing it with tofu at the last damn second.
If this is what Zelda games are going to be like from now on I guess i'll have to look elsewhere.
I liked Drakengard. I realize I'm in a very slim minority. But the story was so crazy, I couldn't -not- like it.
But Drakengard 2 just went and pissed it all to hell. It was so boring, the characters controlled so poorly, everything felt like a step back.
The only good part of that whole game was:
So hard.
I just had to vent that. Because while I wasn't expecting anything out of Drakengard 2, I was -still- let-down.
must...resist...urge...to argue....:P
I liked TP. It was a retread in a lot of ways, and too many items were put to little use after their respective dungeons, but I really enjoyed playing it. The only thing that felt familiar to me was the dungeon structure (3 warm up dungeons, 9? "real game" dungeons).
Also, not enough mini dungeons and secrets OTHER than godforsaken heart pieces and rupees. Oh look...100 rupees at the end of this labyrinth...why the fuck did I even come in here.
My love for the game though might just be because of midna. Some hated her and I'm not sure why, but I really liked her story, development, all that, even if it was a little predictable. Also, snowpeak mansion is my favorite zelda dungeon of all time (though it has perhaps one of my least favorite bosses. fuckin weak sauce).
In a lot of ways though, I find humor in the frustrations people had with TP. The majority of it, as Scarab said, was Nintendo caving into fan service. TP is essentially what everyone wanted WW to be, at least when WW came out. And yet, so many people hated the fact that it was exactly what they asked for: an ode to Ocarina of Time. In relation to OoT, I'd say it's a pretty worthy tribute game, but compared to WW, it's definitely a few steps back in terms of style, charm, and intrigue.
But at least it was a fuckin finished game. WW was quickly becoming my favorite zelda during my first play through...until the end deteriorated into a fetch quest and the remaining dungeons I was so anxiously anticipating suddenly became nothing more than minor bumps in the way.
I dunno, I left TP thinking it was too short- and then had my friends tell me it was actually a long time.
"Wait, wha...?"
The two best parts in the game:
Else, it felt a little shallow. I've done the same song and dance before.
Which is in stark comparison to Majora's Mask, a game that haunted me so much that I can barely stand it.
That goddamn grin on that goddamn Moon still makes me nervously close my blinds at night. THAT is something I want to see more of. Or how I still hesitate each time before entering of the Shadow Temple in OT. Sigh....
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Also, way too much bloom.
Urgh, just thinking about it reminds me of that damn temple. It's like all of my hates put together in a shrine to shittyness. Invincible enemies, half assed stealth, time limits and then making you do it OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Yeah it speeds up every time but it was still enough of a massive pain in the ass that it killed the game for me.
In my 3DS: Super Smash Bros, AC New Leaf
Last game completed: Steamworld Dig
Were the Zelda games ever known for their deep, immersive story? They always seemed pretty basic to me. Not only the level of a Mario Bros. game, of course, but seems like the series was always more about exploration and creating a certain kind of atmosphere as opposed to some sort of great plot. That's one reason I was excited about TP when it was in development; it looked dark, moody and evocative. Of course, I never got to play it, so I don't know how well it delivered on that.
Although I feel like OoT was flawed in many ways, this was one thing that they did get right in it, at least in many places. The Fire Temple and the Forest Temple were both pitch-perfect; I really felt like I was exploring the ruins of some grand, lost world, and the music complimented them perfectly.
Which is one reason I got a little bit pissed when these things got fixed when you beat the Temples. Save that stuff for the ending, guys.
People rabbit on about how the series is meant to be tapping into Arthurian fantasy and so forth, but TP is the only one to remotely pull it off. Compared to the crude, ugly tweeness of Ocarina, the game is miraculous- an actual epic fantasy adventure game, with by far the most beautiful dungeons and setpieces in the entire series.
If you'd rather focus on childlike charm, Minish Cap is the best zelda at that. Wind Waker could have been, but it has so many flaws.
The remainder is a good game, just not the scared cow people keep holding it up as.
You should really go back and finish the game. Those enemies aren't invincible forever, and when you can finally go back and destroy them, you'll feel SOOOO good because you hated them SOOOOO much!
TP has, hands down, the best dungeons of any zelda game.
And yeah, I know a big part of that was hardware limitations, but they could have done more with it than they did. Hyrule field was lame. Plus, there wasn't a hell of a lot to do that I remember, other than finding the spiders. Majora's Mask was undeniably better than OoT as far as the "extra shit" department goes, and that "extra shit" has always been what Zelda was all about to me.
That's a remarkably narrow-minded view.
Wind Waker had the best graphics, true, but was deeply flawed in dungeon design and exploration.
I'd actually put TP over OOT on sound, but that's a poor reason to single a game out by itself anyway.
Phantom Hourglass only has the best controls in the series. It makes up for them with the least interesting dungeon design. TP, however, has the best dungeon design of any of the Zeldas, due to the fact they actually feel like places rather than just video game levels.
On story, every Zelda except Majora's Mask is kind of poor.
TP is also the best Zelda on setpieces, on building a coherent and realised world, and contains the most well-realised single character (Midna). Just because it's only second-best on graphics doesn't give your arguments much weight, I fear.
That's rich, seeing how you haven't yet made a single coherent or convincing argument in favor of the game yourself.
Not in a world where Link to the Past (or Link's Awakening, for that matter) still exists.
In my 3DS: Super Smash Bros, AC New Leaf
Last game completed: Steamworld Dig
I wouldn't mind if it was just 5 minigames and a good editor. But they're not.
Since all of them (except UFO) have weapons / parts that are better than others, your creature essentially evolves along a fixed path.
For example, say your creature has hands with 3* strike. If you find some with 5* strike, well, what choice do you have. And if you decide to go for looks rather than skills, you get the shit kicked out of you. You might not have gone for the mouth with 5* Bite, but your neighbours probably did.
This means that when I played a social game, my creature had all 4 social stats maxed out by the end, but I didn't really like the look of my creature.
Ironically the opposite happens in Space, where because everything is just decorative, you may as well save time and have a plain cube for a spaceship.
I tried to make a sweet car but the builder isn't very good and the ship is such a boring piece of kit anyway that it didn't really work.
Do you seriously have to lower yourself to insults in order to get your point across? I can do the same thing and would have just as much credibility as your inflammatory statement. If you honestly think that midna isn't a well-realized and interesting character, I actually feel pretty sorry for you since you must not have understood the basic narrative structure or the way the character arched throughout the game.
In all seriousness, I can understand why someone might not be thrilled with midna's actual back story, but the way her relationship with Link subtly grows throughout the game is not only charming but believable as well. If you don't think so, that's all well and good, but I'm not going to insult your intelligence for not liking a video game character.
Right above you is an example of a post where two people are resorting to personal attacks in their discussion of video games. So I am moderating the thread. If you have a problem with that, feel free to either PM me or shut the fuck up, because those are the only two options available to you.
you're being asinine. Even if someone were to concede that all your points are right, which they very well might be, it still doesn't magically make up for the faults found in other zelda games. TP could have come up short in many different areas but still deliver the most coherent package. Many reviewers thought exactly that when they gave it the GOTY award.
Not liking a popular game is fine and the overall purpose of this thread but christ, why does zelda get everyone's panties in a bunch? perhaps i'm guilty of this too, but why can't two dissenting opinions coexists without devolving into attacks?
Say we had a what is the best game ever thread for example. It would essentyially just be 10 pages of "Zelda" "Zelda" "Halo" "Fuck you Gaylo faggot, halo sux" "zelda" "mario 3" "fuck you, mario 3 is not as good as alex kidd in miracle world" "zelda' "zelda"....
There's no discussion there, and thus no thread there.
Fair enough. I still have trouble seeing exactly how you're getting to that extreme though.
No one is talking about anything outside the context of Zelda. Fuck, Planescape Torment doesn't have the same complexity as Proust's works. It's a shitty game.