People bitch a lot about One More Day, but Brand New Day Spidey has been really good. Before that, Back In Black was really quite good also.
Kingkhan: As for continuity...seriously, don't get too worked up over it. Pick a few books that most people around here seem to like, check them out, and work back from there. Trust me, the next event will probably be in about 6 to 8 months, and then you can satisfy your curiosity about some of the other corners of the Marvel Universe. Instead of using wikipedia to look up events, use it to look up characters. You'll usually get the most important parts of their history as it relates to events anyway.
Brand New Day is fucking terrible. There are some okay spots, surrounded by radioactive shit.
Hey, when did Algertman replace Sentry?
Obviously I think you're wrong. Except for maybe two or three stories, ASM has been quite good the last year.
gah... when you've been compared to Algertman, you know you've stepped over the line. I apologize.
Full disclosure: I stopped reading comics after the winter storm arc, and just picked it up again recently. The two I just read, one was okay, the other was terribad. So I kind of assumed the rest of the year was the same.
Yeah, if you stopped after Zeb Wells' first arc, you missed some good stuff, like Kelly's great Hammerhead arc, Slott's New Ways to Die, and Guggenheim's Flash Thompson issue. Gale wrote some crap (the Menace storyline), and Roger Stern's recent issue was pretty blah. Overall I think it's been 75% positive.
Robos: I don't think SI has occurred yet in the ASM timeline. As of New Ways to Die, Osborne is still the leader of the T-Bolts.
Are they ever going to rectify Spider-Man continuity, or is Brand New Day it?
I dont even know what this question means
Erm, I guess I was wondering if there was ever going to be further explanation provided as to how Spider-Man fits in with the rest of Marvel continuity, or if "magic!" is all?
Are they ever going to rectify Spider-Man continuity, or is Brand New Day it?
I dont even know what this question means
Erm, I guess I was wondering if there was ever going to be further explanation provided as to how Spider-Man fits in with the rest of Marvel continuity, or if "magic!" is all?
It fits in with the rest of Marvel continuity fine, its Spider-Man's past continuity that got muddled by the retcon. The upcoming Character Assassination story will go into both how his identity was erased from people's minds as well as to how Harry is alive again, and the how he and MJ broke up story will be coming out later this year as well.
People bitch a lot about One More Day, but Brand New Day Spidey has been really good. Before that, Back In Black was really quite good also.
Kingkhan: As for continuity...seriously, don't get too worked up over it. Pick a few books that most people around here seem to like, check them out, and work back from there. Trust me, the next event will probably be in about 6 to 8 months, and then you can satisfy your curiosity about some of the other corners of the Marvel Universe. Instead of using wikipedia to look up events, use it to look up characters. You'll usually get the most important parts of their history as it relates to events anyway.
Brand New Day is fucking terrible. There are some okay spots, surrounded by radioactive shit.
There's only been one BND story I'd say qualifies as terrible, the rest has varied between average to pretty good.
And honestly, that's why I'm not interested in buying it. A lot of shit went down to create this new status quo, so in order to justify said shit, Marvel has to make mainline Spider-man not just 'pretty good', but 'fucking blow your mind AWESOME'. Which, so far, they have failed to do. Is it unreasonable to demand such a level of quality? Perhaps. But an unreasonable situation creates unreasonable expectations. In any case, when Marvel gets olde 616-Spidey up to par, I'll be available to read it. 'Till then, though, there's always Ultimate Spider-man and the new animated series. Which, you know, are both quite fucking AWESOME.
I just tried to use Wikipedia again. I went from Thunderbolts to Hawkeye, found out Hawkeye died during Wanda's crazy spell that broke up the Avengers, was brought back after the House of M, shot Wanda in the back, and her kids killed him, and now he's somehow still alive.
It did not explain. Also the Thunderbolts. Shit be confusing.
I'm gonna go ahead and take that advice on just reading about characters, and fighting the urge to go "Oh, what's that event?" when one is mentioned.
Words to live by as a comic fan: no resurrections will ever make sense. Ever. Your ability to suspend your disbelief must be strong, because comic book logic is going to call it into play very often.
If it makes you feel any better, Hawkeye has no idea how he came back to life either. My theory is that she resurrected him for the HoM universe, then because he was involved in the fight to change things back to normal (he was made aware that the HoM world was wrong), he was protected from being killed again.
People bitch a lot about One More Day, but Brand New Day Spidey has been really good. Before that, Back In Black was really quite good also.
Kingkhan: As for continuity...seriously, don't get too worked up over it. Pick a few books that most people around here seem to like, check them out, and work back from there. Trust me, the next event will probably be in about 6 to 8 months, and then you can satisfy your curiosity about some of the other corners of the Marvel Universe. Instead of using wikipedia to look up events, use it to look up characters. You'll usually get the most important parts of their history as it relates to events anyway.
Brand New Day is fucking terrible. There are some okay spots, surrounded by radioactive shit.
Hey, when did Algertman replace Sentry?
Obviously I think you're wrong. Except for maybe two or three stories, ASM has been quite good the last year.
gah... when you've been compared to Algertman, you know you've stepped over the line. I apologize.
Full disclosure: I stopped reading comics after the winter storm arc, and just picked it up again recently. The two I just read, one was okay, the other was terribad. So I kind of assumed the rest of the year was the same.
Yeah, if you stopped after Zeb Wells' first arc, you missed some good stuff, like Kelly's great Hammerhead arc, Slott's New Ways to Die, and Guggenheim's Flash Thompson issue. Gale wrote some crap (the Menace storyline), and Roger Stern's recent issue was pretty blah. Overall I think it's been 75% positive.
Robos: I don't think SI has occurred yet in the ASM timeline. As of New Ways to Die, Osborne is still the leader of the T-Bolts.
Personally I don't think I'll really be able to enjoy Spider-man again until they retcon the retcon and kill off Aunt May. The stories are okay if you look at them as being non-continuity stuff like Marvel Adventures or something, but none of it really justifies what they did to the character imo.
No doubt OMD was kinda stupid, badly justified, and shabbily executed. I understand people's beef with that. I don't, however, understand carrying that over to the new creators and the book they're producing. I also think that, until they get around to explaining what exactly changed, people are going to continue to bitch about ASM under the assumption that JMS's run was retconed (it wasn't, just aspects of it that were central to MJ and Pete being married).
I just want them to give him a new fucking haircut. Like I said, his hair looked great back in the 1960s... but now he looks like a spider-tool. Seriously, he's going to try and get a girl in 2009 looking like that? At least Harry has an excuse... he's rich and can look however the fuck he wants.
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Honestly, they have hair like black guys. It's a common style to have short hair and coax it into a wavy pattern on your head (this is why you see guys wearing do-rags).
weird... I'd say Harry and Norman are two of the whitest people in the MU... but whatever makes them happy, I guess.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
My issue with ASM is that, due to the rotating creative teams and huge, abrupt shift in status quo, nothing in the book feels like it matters. Yeah, each of the teams are picking up plot threads and moving forward with them an inch at a time, but it lacks the personal, definitive feeling of books featuring long runs by a single writer. Add to that the feeling that they've shown they could, at a moment's notice just say, "Whoops, this isn't working! Quick, new status quo!" and it adds a feeling of impermanence and unimportance to everything that happens in the title. It also feels horribly disconnected from the rest of the Marvel U. Maybe because the schedule makes it harder to synch up with other titles and events? I don't know.
The sad thing is, I feel like the creative teams they have on the book are the best they've had in years. Marcos Martin, JR Jr., Dan Slott, Mark Waid, Joe Kelly, Zeb Wells, and Chris Bachalo? I mean damn. I feel like, if Marvel had just put these guys on Amazing/Spectacular/Web of/Friendly Neighborhood/Tangled Web/whatever other Spider-title prior to OMD, fans would have been bouncing off the walls. Hell, they could have allocated one team to a new Spider-Man: Origins book, for all those super-accessible tales of Spidey's early days as a swingin' bachelor. It worked for Wolverine: Origins.
Instead, they created this big rift in the fandom that probably won't be mended and forgotten for another few years.
Honestly... It would go a long way for some fans if they just killed off Aunt May. She needs to fing die already.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Since the readership doesn't seem to have dipped too much, I'm pretty sure Marvel is willing and able to ride out this period of post-OMD ire. Spidey fans were about as vocal about some of JMS's decisions with the character as they are now about OMD/BND. It'll all blow over in a couple years and people will forget that they were on the brink of swearing off Marvel comics forever.
No doubt OMD was kinda stupid, badly justified, and shabbily executed. I understand people's beef with that. I don't, however, understand carrying that over to the new creators and the book they're producing. I also think that, until they get around to explaining what exactly changed, people are going to continue to bitch about ASM under the assumption that JMS's run was retconed (it wasn't, just aspects of it that were central to MJ and Pete being married).
I know this has been said, and re-said, but I keep seeing this argument and it bothers me.
As a comic book reader, I see the character in the long term. Story is the most important thing to me, and especially the overarching story that the character is experiencing. So, to me, the end of OMD is extremely important and deal breaking as a reader. There is literally no way that I can read the new spider-man line without constantly thinking "this guy made a deal with the devil to save an ancient woman's life abandoned his marriage and regressed in maturity in a selfish attempt to remain adolescent". It does not seem, to me, to even be in the character's ability to make this sort of decision. He has constantly been portrayed as a moral compass. Even with his guilt complex, I can't imagine someone like Peter making this conscious decision (that he and MJ discussed!) without the hangup that this is the devil.
It goes against his whole theme. This is a retreat from responsibility, in one of the most flagrant and ridiculous ways possible.
So, anyway, I'm not trying to start a fire here, just wanted to clarify why some people can't just read BND with no hang ups as to how the character got there.
It is true... you can't look at Parker and not think "wow... this is a guy who would make a deal with the devil." What a weird thing to not be able to say about Spider-Man... it feels weird even thinking it.
Sentry on
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wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
No doubt OMD was kinda stupid, badly justified, and shabbily executed. I understand people's beef with that. I don't, however, understand carrying that over to the new creators and the book they're producing. I also think that, until they get around to explaining what exactly changed, people are going to continue to bitch about ASM under the assumption that JMS's run was retconed (it wasn't, just aspects of it that were central to MJ and Pete being married).
I know this has been said, and re-said, but I keep seeing this argument and it bothers me.
As a comic book reader, I see the character in the long term. Story is the most important thing to me, and especially the overarching story that the character is experiencing. So, to me, the end of OMD is extremely important and deal breaking as a reader. There is literally no way that I can read the new spider-man line without constantly thinking "this guy made a deal with the devil to save an ancient woman's life abandoned his marriage and regressed in maturity in a selfish attempt to remain adolescent". It does not seem, to me, to even be in the character's ability to make this sort of decision. He has constantly been portrayed as a moral compass. Even with his guilt complex, I can't imagine someone like Peter making this conscious decision (that he and MJ discussed!) without the hangup that this is the devil.
It goes against his whole theme. This is a retreat from responsibility, in one of the most flagrant and ridiculous ways possible.
So, anyway, I'm not trying to start a fire here, just wanted to clarify why some people can't just read BND with no hang ups as to how the character got there.
I only read the occassional Spider-Issue here and there, and have a lot of trades on my to-buy list, but this really summarizes my feelings on Spidey's literal deal with the devil. It is really obviously an attempt to get back to the Spidey of the 70s or 80s, at least it looks that way. Back to to goofy yet still able to date tons of hot babes "oh that Parker sure is a card!" schtick.
Even though I do not read many Spider-man comics, I really like Spider-Man. I grew up watching the cartoon in 90s, played Spider-man games, had a few toys, etc. And making a deal with the Devil to save his ancient Aunt, and throwing away adulthood for a chance to go back to his college days in terms of responsibility sounds really unlike him.
Didn't he kill his unborn child in that deal to? Guy needs to fucking grow up. Its one thing trying to save your mum but saving a mummy? FFS.
Movie Aunt May has done nothing to improve my disdain for the woman, shes a fucking irritant, why couldn't she die and Uncle Ben live? At least he could talk to Pete about the ass he's been getting.
I'm kind of curious as to what people would think of a novel, in which halfway through the story, a character gets amnesia, starts living a different life, and continues on without ever going back to his old life or regaining his memories.
You're missing the point if you think thats the major problem with the arc. And in your example, the better description would be global amnesia.
It's the deal with the devil part which ignores everything about the character and makes him out as a pathetic little child unable to accept consequences and responsibility despite what he constantly recites. I seem to remember him actually saying that he couldn't live with it because it was his fault.
Well, but that's kind of the thing, is whether or not you can accept that it's an entirely new story, divorced from what preceeded it. It seems to be the big divide. There are those who are able to look at BND as its own story, and judge it on its own merits, and there are those who are only able to look at it in the context of what came before it.
edit:: like wwtmask said, I don't think anybody liked OMD. But, can BND be good in spite of it? Or are they inextricably linked?
BND can be good in spite of its origins but what is annoying people is that it hasn't particularly been good despite hte promises that being able to do stuff outside the marriage would make things better tahn ever.
I wish they'd just killed MJ off to be honest, shes pretty boring.
Well, but that's kind of the thing, is whether or not you can accept that it's an entirely new story, divorced from what preceeded it. It seems to be the big divide. There are those who are able to look at BND as its own story, and judge it on its own merits, and there are those who are only able to look at it in the context of what came before it.
edit:: like wwtmask said, I don't think anybody liked OMD. But, can BND be good in spite of it? Or are they inextricably linked?
The thing of it is this: OMD and BND are separate stories, yes, but the Spider-man from the first story is still the Spider-man from the second story. Afterall, Marvel themselves said that nothing had changed except for the removing of the marriage. So yeah, this Spidey still made a deal with the devil, even if he doesn't currently remember it. And having a hero who is all about personal responsibility basically give up to the bad guy, and have it turn out okay for him, just doesn't sit right with many of us.
Well, but that's kind of the thing, is whether or not you can accept that it's an entirely new story, divorced from what preceeded it. It seems to be the big divide. There are those who are able to look at BND as its own story, and judge it on its own merits, and there are those who are only able to look at it in the context of what came before it.
edit:: like wwtmask said, I don't think anybody liked OMD. But, can BND be good in spite of it? Or are they inextricably linked?
I dunno... I mean, would you ever look at Micky Mouse the same way if he made a deal with the devil to get rid of Minney in order to bring Pluto back to life? Spider-Man is just as iconic...
come to think of it, that would be a kick-ass Disney movie.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Well, but that's kind of the thing, is whether or not you can accept that it's an entirely new story, divorced from what preceeded it. It seems to be the big divide. There are those who are able to look at BND as its own story, and judge it on its own merits, and there are those who are only able to look at it in the context of what came before it.
edit:: like wwtmask said, I don't think anybody liked OMD. But, can BND be good in spite of it? Or are they inextricably linked?
I can understand people just seeing BND in it's own light, but I just can't do it. Because I know that there is a past, and the fact that the past did indeed happen (people just don't remember), I cannot isolate the series.
Now, if the entire BND was about a man who faltered and ran away from responsibility and adulthood, I would enjoy that. I mean, the devil thing is still retarded, but if the story were really about someone finally fleeing what they've always preached, that would be an interesting story. But so far, it isn't. It might turn into that eventually, but I really don't think it will end with Aunt May dying, or his choice viewed as a bad one. He might outsmart Mephisto, or fight him or something, but somehow they'll show his choice as heroic. But it isn't.
Anyway, I didn't want to get back into a huge thing about this, I just thought that why people could not just accept BND had never been really explained. It isn't the loss of the marriage, or that a deal with the devil is stupid; the problem is that the character is now a fraud, living in a world he had made for him to escape reality. It is, in fact, the exact same thing that the Scarlet Witch did on a smaller scale.
That's actually a pretty good point Langly, it is very similar to House of M. The world isn't as fucked up but its a reality made for a pathetic loser who couldn't accept life and it unkilled one of the better dead characters.
Secret Invasion comes out in trades next month, which means I get to read the event next month. What tie in's are worth reading? I will already be picking up the core story, and will pick up mighty avengers, Tbolts and avengers initiative anyway. What other secret tie in's were exceptionally well written or add a good dynamic to the story?
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Question: The lantern rings - is their power to be a deus ex machina? I am still trying to wrap my head around what they can and cannot do, and it seems to be as nebulous as Dr. Strange's powers....
They can form stuff based on their own strength of will and imagination. So weak will and/or imagination means a crappier lantern. That said they can't make a time machine from their ring as far as I'm aware.
I don't follow them AT ALL though so I may be wrong.
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Yeah, if you stopped after Zeb Wells' first arc, you missed some good stuff, like Kelly's great Hammerhead arc, Slott's New Ways to Die, and Guggenheim's Flash Thompson issue. Gale wrote some crap (the Menace storyline), and Roger Stern's recent issue was pretty blah. Overall I think it's been 75% positive.
Robos: I don't think SI has occurred yet in the ASM timeline. As of New Ways to Die, Osborne is still the leader of the T-Bolts.
Erm, I guess I was wondering if there was ever going to be further explanation provided as to how Spider-Man fits in with the rest of Marvel continuity, or if "magic!" is all?
It fits in with the rest of Marvel continuity fine, its Spider-Man's past continuity that got muddled by the retcon. The upcoming Character Assassination story will go into both how his identity was erased from people's minds as well as to how Harry is alive again, and the how he and MJ broke up story will be coming out later this year as well.
All buildings in New York to have government-funded Spider-Slayers stationed on their rooftops. :P
And honestly, that's why I'm not interested in buying it. A lot of shit went down to create this new status quo, so in order to justify said shit, Marvel has to make mainline Spider-man not just 'pretty good', but 'fucking blow your mind AWESOME'. Which, so far, they have failed to do. Is it unreasonable to demand such a level of quality? Perhaps. But an unreasonable situation creates unreasonable expectations. In any case, when Marvel gets olde 616-Spidey up to par, I'll be available to read it. 'Till then, though, there's always Ultimate Spider-man and the new animated series. Which, you know, are both quite fucking AWESOME.
It did not explain. Also the Thunderbolts. Shit be confusing.
I'm gonna go ahead and take that advice on just reading about characters, and fighting the urge to go "Oh, what's that event?" when one is mentioned.
If it makes you feel any better, Hawkeye has no idea how he came back to life either. My theory is that she resurrected him for the HoM universe, then because he was involved in the fight to change things back to normal (he was made aware that the HoM world was wrong), he was protected from being killed again.
I think it has largely to do with the difference in art and writing. Doesn't look like him and the strict "Yes, boss" thing doesn't sound like him.
But I'm probably crazy and just can't make my mind go "Hey that's the same dude." Meh.
The unmasking, doubly so.
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Personally I don't think I'll really be able to enjoy Spider-man again until they retcon the retcon and kill off Aunt May. The stories are okay if you look at them as being non-continuity stuff like Marvel Adventures or something, but none of it really justifies what they did to the character imo.
Really, it was just about simplifying Spider-Man and making him more accessible to casual fans so that they'd commit to a weekly title.
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The sad thing is, I feel like the creative teams they have on the book are the best they've had in years. Marcos Martin, JR Jr., Dan Slott, Mark Waid, Joe Kelly, Zeb Wells, and Chris Bachalo? I mean damn. I feel like, if Marvel had just put these guys on Amazing/Spectacular/Web of/Friendly Neighborhood/Tangled Web/whatever other Spider-title prior to OMD, fans would have been bouncing off the walls. Hell, they could have allocated one team to a new Spider-Man: Origins book, for all those super-accessible tales of Spidey's early days as a swingin' bachelor. It worked for Wolverine: Origins.
Instead, they created this big rift in the fandom that probably won't be mended and forgotten for another few years.
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I know this has been said, and re-said, but I keep seeing this argument and it bothers me.
As a comic book reader, I see the character in the long term. Story is the most important thing to me, and especially the overarching story that the character is experiencing. So, to me, the end of OMD is extremely important and deal breaking as a reader. There is literally no way that I can read the new spider-man line without constantly thinking "this guy made a deal with the devil to save an ancient woman's life abandoned his marriage and regressed in maturity in a selfish attempt to remain adolescent". It does not seem, to me, to even be in the character's ability to make this sort of decision. He has constantly been portrayed as a moral compass. Even with his guilt complex, I can't imagine someone like Peter making this conscious decision (that he and MJ discussed!) without the hangup that this is the devil.
It goes against his whole theme. This is a retreat from responsibility, in one of the most flagrant and ridiculous ways possible.
So, anyway, I'm not trying to start a fire here, just wanted to clarify why some people can't just read BND with no hang ups as to how the character got there.
I only read the occassional Spider-Issue here and there, and have a lot of trades on my to-buy list, but this really summarizes my feelings on Spidey's literal deal with the devil. It is really obviously an attempt to get back to the Spidey of the 70s or 80s, at least it looks that way. Back to to goofy yet still able to date tons of hot babes "oh that Parker sure is a card!" schtick.
Even though I do not read many Spider-man comics, I really like Spider-Man. I grew up watching the cartoon in 90s, played Spider-man games, had a few toys, etc. And making a deal with the Devil to save his ancient Aunt, and throwing away adulthood for a chance to go back to his college days in terms of responsibility sounds really unlike him.
Movie Aunt May has done nothing to improve my disdain for the woman, shes a fucking irritant, why couldn't she die and Uncle Ben live? At least he could talk to Pete about the ass he's been getting.
I'm kind of curious as to what people would think of a novel, in which halfway through the story, a character gets amnesia, starts living a different life, and continues on without ever going back to his old life or regaining his memories.
It's the deal with the devil part which ignores everything about the character and makes him out as a pathetic little child unable to accept consequences and responsibility despite what he constantly recites. I seem to remember him actually saying that he couldn't live with it because it was his fault.
edit:: like wwtmask said, I don't think anybody liked OMD. But, can BND be good in spite of it? Or are they inextricably linked?
I wish they'd just killed MJ off to be honest, shes pretty boring.
The thing of it is this: OMD and BND are separate stories, yes, but the Spider-man from the first story is still the Spider-man from the second story. Afterall, Marvel themselves said that nothing had changed except for the removing of the marriage. So yeah, this Spidey still made a deal with the devil, even if he doesn't currently remember it. And having a hero who is all about personal responsibility basically give up to the bad guy, and have it turn out okay for him, just doesn't sit right with many of us.
I dunno... I mean, would you ever look at Micky Mouse the same way if he made a deal with the devil to get rid of Minney in order to bring Pluto back to life? Spider-Man is just as iconic...
come to think of it, that would be a kick-ass Disney movie.
I can understand people just seeing BND in it's own light, but I just can't do it. Because I know that there is a past, and the fact that the past did indeed happen (people just don't remember), I cannot isolate the series.
Now, if the entire BND was about a man who faltered and ran away from responsibility and adulthood, I would enjoy that. I mean, the devil thing is still retarded, but if the story were really about someone finally fleeing what they've always preached, that would be an interesting story. But so far, it isn't. It might turn into that eventually, but I really don't think it will end with Aunt May dying, or his choice viewed as a bad one. He might outsmart Mephisto, or fight him or something, but somehow they'll show his choice as heroic. But it isn't.
Anyway, I didn't want to get back into a huge thing about this, I just thought that why people could not just accept BND had never been really explained. It isn't the loss of the marriage, or that a deal with the devil is stupid; the problem is that the character is now a fraud, living in a world he had made for him to escape reality. It is, in fact, the exact same thing that the Scarlet Witch did on a smaller scale.
And she is fucking crazy
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Not really a tie in, but ancillary story anyway.
Also I heard the inhuman one was pretty good? Didn't read that though
I don't follow them AT ALL though so I may be wrong.