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ROUND THREE: FIGHT D: PRE-FIGHT DEBATE

24

Posts

  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Wonder Woman and Shade.

    Rogue isn't going to be able to drain Wonder Woman long enough to really affect her in any significant way before Wonder Woman knocks her the fuck out. Also: Wonder Woman and fire are buddies. Not Fire the superheroine, but fire as in the chemical reaction thing.

    Spectre-x on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Okay, I'm double-posting this because people don't seem to get it.


    Superman's vulnerability to magic works like this, and only like this: He is affected by magic in the same way as a normal human.

    That means that spells to transform him into something work on him just as well as a regular person, and he has no defences against the effects of magical weapons. BUT! This only goes for those weapons that have enchantments on them to directly enhance their intended effects.

    For instance: The Vorpal Blade. If Superman would touch it, he would get cut in twain, because the Vorpal Blade is enchantd to cut through pretty much anything.

    Mjolnir, however, would only hurt Superman as much as any other indestructible hammer wielded by someone as strong as himself, because Mjolnir is not enchanted to smash shit, but instead to be indestructible. This enables it so smash shit because whatever it hits isn't as durable as itself, but it's not a direct magical effect.

    Same goes with, say, magical fireballs. They are magical and also fire. But they're probably not enchanted to burn anything, they're just meant to be fire. And As such in order to hurt Superman they would have to be as powerful as a non-magical fireball that could hurt Superman.

    Baaaasically it works like this:

    If a magical attack doesn't directly use magic to specifically achieve a certain goal, it will still have to be able to hurt Superman if it were a non-magical attack if you wanted to hurt Superman with it.

    If it's not enchanted to cut, it won't cut Superman unless you apply enough force to actually cut Superman.

    Spectre-x on
  • Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Terrorbyte wrote:
    One point of concern with Wonder Woman and Rogue: Wonder Woman gets her powers from the Gods. How has Rogue fared with godlike dudes like Thor and Ares? I mean, if she pats Thor on his exposed buttocks, can she shoot lightnin' and wield Mjolnir?

    But, yeah. Debate. Wonder Woman knocks all three competitors out with a well-timed tiara ricochet toss. Old school win.
    In Rogue's first appearance she swipes Thor's powers and uses them to beat up the rest of the Avengers, though I think she sticks to strength and invulnerability.

    Adaemus1sf on
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    Terrorbyte wrote:
    One point of concern with Wonder Woman and Rogue: Wonder Woman gets her powers from the Gods. How has Rogue fared with godlike dudes like Thor and Ares? I mean, if she pats Thor on his exposed buttocks, can she shoot lightnin' and wield Mjolnir?

    But, yeah. Debate. Wonder Woman knocks all three competitors out with a well-timed tiara ricochet toss. Old school win.
    In Rogue's first appearance she swipes Thor's powers and uses them to beat up the rest of the Avengers, though I think she sticks to strength and invulnerability.
    Well then.

    deadonthestreet on
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Wonder Woman is in for sure. Cap is out for sure, even if he somehow managed to beat Shade and Rogue in this one, he'd never last the next round, so it's kind of a waste to have him move on.


    So, Rogue or Shade? I'm thinking Rogue. There's absolutely nothing that would save Cap from having his abilities and above-average bod (you can say he technically doesn't have powers, but I think Rogue would pick up on that Super Soldier thing) sucked out. And Cap's tactical abilities combined with Rogue's powers would give her a very good shot at managing to get enough juice from the other players to move on.

    I don't really know much about Shade's abilities. But Cap can't beat Rogue, and even WW would have a very tough time if their running into each other didn't start off with WW knocking Rogue out with a single kick or something.

    Scooter on
  • TerrorbyteTerrorbyte __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    Terrorbyte wrote:
    One point of concern with Wonder Woman and Rogue: Wonder Woman gets her powers from the Gods. How has Rogue fared with godlike dudes like Thor and Ares? I mean, if she pats Thor on his exposed buttocks, can she shoot lightnin' and wield Mjolnir?

    But, yeah. Debate. Wonder Woman knocks all three competitors out with a well-timed tiara ricochet toss. Old school win.
    In Rogue's first appearance she swipes Thor's powers and uses them to beat up the rest of the Avengers, though I think she sticks to strength and invulnerability.
    Well then.

    Oh man, I totally blanked on that. It makes sense in current continuity, too. Since Thor was able to be cloned, his powers must have some biological aspect that can be reproduced ... to a certain extent.

    The reason why I asked this is because, unless Infinite Crisis changed this, Wonder Woman is made out of clay. If Rogue touched her, would she become a big ol' pile of mud?

    Terrorbyte on
  • JordynJordyn Really, Commander? Probing Uranus. Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I don't think so.

    I mean she was molded from clay, but if you were to say, cut her open, it's not like clay would come pouring out.

    Jordyn on
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  • TerrorbyteTerrorbyte __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    Jordyn wrote:
    I mean she was molded from clay, but if you were to say, cut her open, it's not like clay would come pouring out.

    Wonder Woman Play-Doh Activity Set!

    But, yeah, that's my point. You can clone Thor. He has the fundamental biology of a human. I don't know how deeply this has been explored throughout Wonder Woman's history and I don't know if Rogue's powers would be able to swipe the mojo of a woman made out of clay by the Gods.

    If it bleeds, Rogue can swipe it? Okay. I just think that Wonder Woman's background kind of adds a wrinkle to this.

    Terrorbyte on
  • JordynJordyn Really, Commander? Probing Uranus. Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    It seems like she can just take anyone's powers. She's taken it from mutants and non-mutants, so I'd imagine she could probably take Wonder Woman's without turning into clay.

    I mean, being made of clay isn't her power, it's just her origin.

    I'm not sure if my phrasing here is making sense.

    Jordyn on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Jordyn wrote:
    It seems like she can just take anyone's powers. She's taken it from mutants and non-mutants, so I'd imagine she could probably take Wonder Woman's without turning into clay.

    I mean, being made of clay isn't her power, it's just her origin.

    I'm not sure if my phrasing here is making sense.

    Yes, but would a hit from WW hurt Rogue before she took her powers. Also, she doesn't still the muscle memory and skill, just the mental memories.

    Fencingsax on
  • JordynJordyn Really, Commander? Probing Uranus. Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Yeah, he was just wondering if she could actually take her powers or not.

    And I'm saying she probably could.

    And also agree that she would be a much less skilled fighter than Wonder Woman.

    Jordyn on
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  • TerrorbyteTerrorbyte __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    Jordyn wrote:
    It seems like she can just take anyone's powers.
    Wikipedia wrote:
    Rogue's mutant ability allows her to absorb the essence of anyone she touches through skin to skin contact.

    See, that essence word is what makes me perk my ears. It implies something intrinsic, indispensable and fundamental. When you get down to it, Wonder Woman is enchanted clay given life. A soul bonded into something that was never quite human, just made to seem that way. But, if essence is just another word for "whatever power they have" then that's that.
    I'm not sure if my phrasing here is making sense.

    No, it makes perfect sense. I mean, this is just an educated guessing game.

    Terrorbyte on
  • TerrorbyteTerrorbyte __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Yes, but would a hit from WW hurt Rogue before she took her powers. Also, she doesn't still the muscle memory and skill, just the mental memories.

    If she's allowed to bring her lasso, she could also just tie everyone up and make them fall asleep.

    Terrorbyte on
  • Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I thought that while she was molded out of clay, the blessing of the Gods made her an actual superhuman. So she's actually flesh and blood and what she was before that wouldn't matter.

    Adaemus1sf on
  • TerrorbyteTerrorbyte __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    I thought that while she was molded out of clay, the blessing of the Gods made her an actual superhuman. So she's actually flesh and blood and what she was before that wouldn't matter.

    At the end of Crisis on Infinite Earths, she gets devolved back into clay from her 'human' form. I guess a wacky concept like this has to be vague to seem at least somewhat logical.

    Anyway, I think it would offer her at least a slight resistance to Rogue's powers in case an opening volley couldn't bring the mutant down.

    EDIT: Bzzt. Y'all were right. Just scanned my Perez WW and she was turned into flesh and blood.

    Terrorbyte on
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Terrorbyte wrote:
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Yes, but would a hit from WW hurt Rogue before she took her powers. Also, she doesn't still the muscle memory and skill, just the mental memories.

    If she's allowed to bring her lasso, she could also just tie everyone up and make them fall asleep.

    Doesn't it only work on men?

    DarkPrimus on
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  • TerrorbyteTerrorbyte __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    DarkPrimus wrote:
    Terrorbyte wrote:
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Yes, but would a hit from WW hurt Rogue before she took her powers. Also, she doesn't still the muscle memory and skill, just the mental memories.

    If she's allowed to bring her lasso, she could also just tie everyone up and make them fall asleep.

    Doesn't it only work on men?

    No, you're thinking of Wonder Woman losing her powers if she's tied up by a dude. The lasso/sleep thing is the Amazon jedi mind trick.

    Terrorbyte on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Terrorbyte wrote:
    DarkPrimus wrote:
    Terrorbyte wrote:
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Yes, but would a hit from WW hurt Rogue before she took her powers. Also, she doesn't still the muscle memory and skill, just the mental memories.

    If she's allowed to bring her lasso, she could also just tie everyone up and make them fall asleep.

    Doesn't it only work on men?

    No, you're thinking of Wonder Woman losing her powers if she's tied up by a dude.

    Which you know she totally digs.

    Fencingsax on
  • Adaemus1sfAdaemus1sf Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Well, yeah, she's been turned back into clay on a couple of occasions, but it always involved mystical causes or, in that case, reality altering. The blessing of the Gods seemed to me to specifically turn the clay into a person. Really, though, this Rogue isn't invulnerable at all, so hitting her once with the strength Wonder Woman has should knock her out. Her absorbing powers haven't been shown to work quickly enough to borrow Wonder Woman's toughness in time to take a punch from WW, have they?

    Adaemus1sf on
  • TerrorbyteTerrorbyte __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Terrorbyte wrote:
    DarkPrimus wrote:
    Terrorbyte wrote:
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Yes, but would a hit from WW hurt Rogue before she took her powers. Also, she doesn't still the muscle memory and skill, just the mental memories.

    If she's allowed to bring her lasso, she could also just tie everyone up and make them fall asleep.

    Doesn't it only work on men?

    No, you're thinking of Wonder Woman losing her powers if she's tied up by a dude.

    Which you know she totally digs.

    Wonder Woman wins the tournament by giving all the other competitors fatal boners.

    Terrorbyte on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    man

    the clay thing is reaching it


    and rogue is immune to wonder boners

    Munkus Beaver on
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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    man

    the clay thing is reaching it


    and rogue is immune to wonder boners

    Passing out due to painfully erect nipples?

    DarkPrimus on
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  • TerrorbyteTerrorbyte __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    the clay thing is reaching it

    Yeah, so is "I have a deus ex machina power that has never been clearly defined, changes annually and between writers and really isn't given any hard and fast rules." I love Rogue, but I take the "debate" part of the title seriously. Every weird avenue should be explored.
    and rogue is immune to wonder boners

    Secondary mutation.

    :shock:

    Terrorbyte on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Terrorbyte wrote:
    the clay thing is reaching it

    Yeah, so is "I have a deus ex machina power that has never been clearly defined, changes annually and between writers and really isn't given any hard and fast rules." I love Rogue, but I'm not a fan of the "let it fly without question" attitude some of y'all have here. This is supposed to be a debate, not a nodding festival.

    Yeah, it's not like Rogue is the only one here with vaguely defined powers.

    Having vague powers is half of these guys powers. Case in point- Superman. At one point, he was just a super strong, invulnerable guy. And then he got all of his super- add-ons.

    Fencingsax on
  • delphinusdelphinus Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Adaemus1sf wrote:
    Well, yeah, she's been turned back into clay on a couple of occasions, but it always involved mystical causes or, in that case, reality altering. The blessing of the Gods seemed to me to specifically turn the clay into a person. Really, though, this Rogue isn't invulnerable at all, so hitting her once with the strength Wonder Woman has should knock her out. Her absorbing powers haven't been shown to work quickly enough to borrow Wonder Woman's toughness in time to take a punch from WW, have they?

    maybe it would. everytime people try to touch rogue, they become "stuck"
    for example. why wouldnt gambit give her a quick peck on the cheek? every time he goes in for a kiss when her powers are on, he gets "stuck" to her skin

    (no her skin isnt sticky, but the people are usually unable to remove themselves before getting drained)

    delphinus on
  • TerrorbyteTerrorbyte __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Terrorbyte wrote:
    the clay thing is reaching it

    Yeah, so is "I have a deus ex machina power that has never been clearly defined, changes annually and between writers and really isn't given any hard and fast rules." I love Rogue, but I'm not a fan of the "let it fly without question" attitude some of y'all have here. This is supposed to be a debate, not a nodding festival.

    Yeah, it's not like Rogue is the only one here with vaguely defined powers.

    Having vague powers is half of these guys powers. Case in point- Superman. At one point, he was just a super strong, invulnerable guy. And then he got all of his super- add-ons.

    Kryptonian cells storing the solar energy from a yellow sun, kryptonite radiation poisoning, flight due to a gravity/energy field, etc.

    Ridiculous super-comic stuff, of course, but it's a bit more substantial than "I mutant-touch ya', sugah!" Which makes an imaginary fight a bit more difficult.

    Terrorbyte on
  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Girl power: WW and Rogue advance. I don't care what anyone says a tough guy with a shield and TACTICS just shouldn't be able to hold his own against foes with -useful- powers. Shade will take out Cap no problem and WW and Rogue will then turn on Shade since he's clearly a badass threat and take him out.

    Caveman Paws on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2006
    Rogue wins. Before the fight she consults with Professor Xavier and absorbs his powers before baldy can wheel himself away. Bingo, instant telapathic mastery and everyone else is up the creek. Except Cap, who Rogue lets advance because he's Cap.

    Bogart on
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    Bogart wrote:
    Rogue wins. Before the fight she consults with Professor Xavier and absorbs his powers before baldy can wheel himself away. Bingo, instant telapathic mastery and everyone else is up the creek. Except Cap, who Rogue lets advance because he's Cap.
    yeah that seems totally reasonable

    Servo on
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  • CharmyCharmy Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    There's no way Cap gets out of this victorious. There are only two options, then;

    a) He realizes his disadvantage and bows out gracefully.
    b) He realizes his disadvantage and goes out in a blaze of glory.

    I hope on of these two options is reflected in the recap.

    In any case, I think Bogart is on to something with the idea of Rogue stealing a power beforehand. Now that she has a chance to consult somebody before the match, it only makes sense she'd use that opportunity to increase her power. Insta-wins like Professor X are out, but there's no reason she couldn't show up packing the power of say, Iceman.

    I was going to say Wonder Woman and Shade, but consulting advisors adds a wrinkle to the match that plays to Rogue's advantage. Between that and the chance to study her opponents beforehand through videos, Rogue could show up with some very specific counters to her opponents.

    Charmy on
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  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Wonder Woman and Shade advance. There's very little Rogue or Cap could do to counter any of Wonder Woman's or Shade's abilities.

    Wonder Woman knows about Shade and Cap, she'll know about Rogue when she watches the video. Wonder Woman is far too quick for Rogue to get her hands on, and even if she did somehow manage to touch Wondy, the power drain from someone as massively empowered as Wonder Woman wouldn't be fast enough to have her not be knocked out by the inevitable punch in the face Rogue would get.

    Shade is really staggeringly powerful, pretty much undetectable inhis darkness, terrifyingly experienced, and Rogue, Captain Maerica tactics and fire powers or not, isn't going to be able to do much to him before she gets taken out.

    Spectre-x on
  • Kshah777Kshah777 Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Isn't there a rule that competitors must be in their normal power states upon entering the battle? I believe someone discussed this strategy before about Rogue and it was shot down.

    Kshah777 on
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  • NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Kshah777 wrote:
    Isn't there a rule that competitors must be in their normal power states upon entering the battle? I believe someone discussed this strategy before about Rogue and it was shot down.

    Yeah, was discussed just in the last batch of matches too. Combatants enter the field in their normal state.

    NinjaSquirrel on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2006
    Kshah777 wrote:
    Isn't there a rule that competitors must be in their normal power states upon entering the battle? I believe someone discussed this strategy before about Rogue and it was shot down.

    Yeah, was discussed just in the last batch of matches too. Combatants enter the field in their normal state.

    Damn. WW to advance, then.

    Is the final round gong to consist of a bunch of DC heroes and arguments about which of their undetectable/unbeatable/unstoppable/undescribable powers beats all the other undetectable/unbeatable/unstoppable/undescribable powers?

    Bogart on
  • NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Bogart wrote:
    Kshah777 wrote:
    Isn't there a rule that competitors must be in their normal power states upon entering the battle? I believe someone discussed this strategy before about Rogue and it was shot down.

    Yeah, was discussed just in the last batch of matches too. Combatants enter the field in their normal state.

    Damn. WW to advance, then.

    Is the final round gong to consist of a bunch of DC heroes and arguments about which of their undetectable/unbeatable/unstoppable/undescribable powers beats all the other undetectable/unbeatable/unstoppable/undescribable powers?
    Well if people play smart I could see Shade and Thor getting into the final round.

    NinjaSquirrel on
  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Just curious, but, aren't Shade's powers connected to him in some way?

    As in, his powers are pretty much an extension of himself?

    Transporter on
  • CharmyCharmy Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Kshah777 wrote:
    Isn't there a rule that competitors must be in their normal power states upon entering the battle? I believe someone discussed this strategy before about Rogue and it was shot down.

    Yeah, was discussed just in the last batch of matches too. Combatants enter the field in their normal state.

    Huh. The way I understood that rule was that they began the round reset to normal state, which would include prep-time. I can't find any specifics relating to it, though.

    Charmy on
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  • NinjaSquirrelNinjaSquirrel Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Charmy wrote:
    Kshah777 wrote:
    Isn't there a rule that competitors must be in their normal power states upon entering the battle? I believe someone discussed this strategy before about Rogue and it was shot down.

    Yeah, was discussed just in the last batch of matches too. Combatants enter the field in their normal state.

    Huh. The way I understood that rule was that they began the round reset to normal state, which would include prep-time. I can't find any specifics relating to it, though.

    What was decided was that people entered the field in their normal state.

    NinjaSquirrel on
  • TerrorbyteTerrorbyte __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    Charmy wrote:
    Kshah777 wrote:
    Isn't there a rule that competitors must be in their normal power states upon entering the battle? I believe someone discussed this strategy before about Rogue and it was shot down.

    Yeah, was discussed just in the last batch of matches too. Combatants enter the field in their normal state.

    Huh. The way I understood that rule was that they began the round reset to normal state, which would include prep-time. I can't find any specifics relating to it, though.

    Also, Professor Xavier wasn't allowed in the tournament. How can Rogue touch someone who, for these purposes, isn't here?

    Terrorbyte on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2006
    Terrorbyte wrote:
    Charmy wrote:
    Kshah777 wrote:
    Isn't there a rule that competitors must be in their normal power states upon entering the battle? I believe someone discussed this strategy before about Rogue and it was shot down.

    Yeah, was discussed just in the last batch of matches too. Combatants enter the field in their normal state.

    Huh. The way I understood that rule was that they began the round reset to normal state, which would include prep-time. I can't find any specifics relating to it, though.

    Also, Professor Xavier wasn't allowed in the tournament. How can Rogue touch someone who, for these purposes, isn't here?

    Because he doesn't have to be in the tournament? The rules only state that the advisor needs to be someone the contestant has ties to, so Xavier qualifies.

    Bogart on
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