Weights, and the lifting thereof.

Xenocide Geek

I seem to be making a lot of H/A threads lately.

Anyways.

So, yeah, just as the title of the thread specifies.

I want to start lifting weights. I REALLY lack in upper body strength, and want to start bulking up in my arms/chest/stomach.

I have some free weights at my disposal as well as a bar.

I'm 6'2, 188 pounds.

I've looked online for exercises and stuff, but I can't seem to find any decent resources. I've heard that lifting weights improperly can seriously fux with your back amongst other things, so I figured I'd enlist your guys aid, as I've seen and read many of these types of threads.

So. What do I need to do.

Thanatos

The best thing to do is to find someone who knows what they're doing, and can show you proper form for several different exercises.

ecchi

Compound lifts should be your primary lifts. Don't do individual bodypart splits. Your primary lifts should be the squat, benchpress, deadlift, bent-over row and military press. All of those but the squat and deadlift can be done with dumbbells rather than barbells while you work on your form.

A good resource for proper form is exrx.net. Just Google "exrx <exercise name>" and it should be the first result. Here's the squat for example.

A good routine is Bill Starr's 5x5. The site I just linked said it's more for intermediate lifters, but I started on it with great results.


The most important things are to 1) eat a lot and 2) PUSH YOURSELF. You will never make gains if you don't step up the weight whenever possible. Starting out you should be able to improve every lift almost every trip to the gym for a while.

Thanatos is right in that it's good to have someone else to show you the ropes, but it's very possible to teach yourself. Just start with low weights (empty bars, 15-pound dumbbells, etc) while you get used to the motions.

PirateJon

Thanatos wrote:

The best thing to do is to find someone who knows what they're doing, and can show you proper form for several different exercises.

This is correct.

A slightly less acceptable answer would be to purchase the book "Starting Strength". Gold IMO. http://www.startingstrength.com/

additional info from the only part of the sherdog forums worth reading
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=113793

happyshark

you NEED to focus on your back and shoulders as well. Don't forget to do deadlifts, its one of the best exercises there is

Starfuck

:^: for the Bill Starr and Starting Strength. SS gives some very good info on form.

Also important is if you are going to join a gym or be working out at home.
I think the Starr stuff is great if you have access to a rack and bench. If you won't, then maybe look at some olympic lifts. They are more technical and require some practice, but there is something about getting a snatch you've been after for a while.

Power cleans are great, high pulls, overhead squats, push preses, front squats in addition to everything already mentioned.

best of luck.

Malkor

You don't neccesarily need to start with free weights. Push ups and chinups can be an easy way to get your body 'ready' for more strenuous workouts.

stixs4321

Malkor wrote:

You don't neccesarily need to start with free weights. Push ups and chinups can be an easy way to get your body 'ready' for more strenuous workouts.

I agree with this especially if you really lack upper body strength like you say. You could also be really lacking lower body strength/stability too. Also forget about bulking up your chest as it'll come along with a bigger body in general. What can you see from the front? A big upper back and what can you see from the back? A big upper back which really gives you the illusion of being big vs a chest that can be easily covered by a shirt and only seen from the front.

Anyways keep everything in balance and work on compound movements as mentioned. Work your upper back(with rows) with 2 sets for every set you do for your chest because most people begining will usaully have imbalances in the upper back. Work on single leg work like bulgarian split squats, lunges and step-ups. Core work should be a staple in the begining also so focus on doing 3 sets of prone planks(hold until failure or so), 3 sets per side side planks and 3 sets gluteal bridges.

How is your strength at the moment? How many push-ups can you do? How many chin-ups? Do you tip over if you try to lunge? How long can you bridge for? How low can you squat using your bodyweight while keeping your back perfectly straight? When gluteal bridging do you use your glutes or straing your hamstrings and back?

Are you going to be working out in a gym or at home? If at home do you have a chin-up bar?

www.t-nation.com you can find exercises, stretches, nutrition and all kinds of great articles there.

Kewop Decam

Malkor wrote:

You don't neccesarily need to start with free weights. Push ups and chinups can be an easy way to get your body 'ready' for more strenuous workouts.

This is what I did. When I was in highschool I could lift weights cause I went to a lame school that had no football team and people weren't allowed inthe weightroom unless you had weight training class. I got to the point where I could do 300 push-ups in less that 30 minutes (was doing 50 rep sets I believe). I'm pretty sure I could do that in less than 15 minutes now. It's a great way to get your body prepared for weight training.

Also, you MUST find someone who knows what they are doing. You wouldn't believe how many people bench incorrectly or just do the simplest of exercises incorrect. When you bench... you're not suppose to bounce the bar off your chest, yet everyone does this. It's not a truly bad thing but people drop the weight on their chest, never controlling the weight on the way down and then push it back up. That bounce (plus just letting gravity take the weight down) takes out like 60-70% of the whole work out. I don't know who you could ask to show you stuff, but if you're in college the gyms usually have free trainers. They SHOULD know the correct forms of all the exercises.

Good luck and don't get discourage after 2 weeks because muscles are exploding out your body. It takes time. Also, I hope you like to eat, because you will be doing a lot of it.

Nova_C

The way I started was with a friend (Who was also noobish at the gym). We researched the exercises, got a lot from old Arnold Schwarzenegger books and helped each other get our technique down.

Having a daily gym partner that is always the same is fantastic. They get to know your limits, pushing you that extra little bit when you want to give up but they know you've got more.

Also, for bulking up, the lats are where it's at. Alternate between wide grip and narrow grip pulldowns (Wide grip gets your lats to flare, narrow grip lengthens them). Depending on your neck, shrugs are good as well. If you're already a no-neck dude like myself, do more upright rows than shrugs. :P

leftright

squat deadlift pullups bench press, military press, rows and dips. Do some abs as well.

most important thing is proper form, i hurt my lower back doing squats by not keeping it straight, ALWAYS make sure your back is safe it is terrible when you hurt your back.

Check out t-nation for some articles on exercises, you might want to try the "mutation series" workout

ecchi

Kewop Decam wrote:

I got to the point where I could do 300 push-ups in less that 30 minutes (was doing 50 rep sets I believe). I'm pretty sure I could do that in less than 15 minutes now. It's a great way to get your body prepared for weight training.

I really don't see the point of doing this with push-ups. If you have no other options, sure, but doing an insane number of reps at a low weight isn't anywhere near as effective as lifting heavy stuff. Chin-ups and dips are great bodyweight exercises and you can easily add weight to them, but you're better off starting with dumbbell bench presses than push-ups. It's not like there's any risk of self-injury.

Xenocide Geek

So, these are the two things I think I'm gonna start doing:

for nutrition: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459493

and for the actual workout routine: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508031

I don't have all the appropriate weights/know all the exercises yet, so I'm starting by doing the ones I DO know, and once I find a reliable source on how to do the rest of 'em I'll start doing those also.

Also: I don't have a chin-up bar, and... where's the mutant series workout on t-nation? I didn't see it.

I really need to learn how to do some other exercises.

Right now I can do benchpresses/bicep curls, but those are the only ones I trust myself on how to do properly.

edit: Is there an alternate to doing squats/deadlifts? I have really long legs, and lots of the tall people in my family have had knee operations due to knee complications, so I'm afraid of screwing with my knees.

leftright

it was for someone who already lifted weights becoming an amateur bodybuilder, but worth it if you're working out to look good. It was the "mutation series workout" by Christian Thibeadeu (sp?)

That workout and nutrition plan look fine though. I sort of designed my own,
I work a different one or two muscle groups a day, a high protein diet and creatine after i workout. For example, yesterday i did shoulders and biceps: military press, dips, bicep curls and incline bench. If you're beginning you can just do a full body workout every other day until you get the basics down.

edit: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459214 link

happyshark

Xenocide Geek wrote:

edit: Is there an alternate to doing squats/deadlifts? I have really long legs, and lots of the tall people in my family have had knee operations due to knee complications, so I'm afraid of screwing with my knees.

Nope. Forget about getting big if you don't do those. They are REALLY IMPORTANT.

leftright

squat is the one exercise that builds muscle the fastest. deadlifts and squats work your posterior chain, abs, lower back, shoulders and legs a lot, very important muscles to work on.

oh and i don't think i mentioned this earlier, avoid machines.

stigweard

I don't really think avoiding the smith bar for squats is a good idea for a beginner. They are probably the hardest excercise to spot and the safety latches can come in handy if you run out of energy in the middle of your last rep.

Starfuck

I'm just going to come out and say it.
Don't bother with a smith machine. It in no way, shape or form will simulate the same vertical movement that a back squat will. Just start light, Start with the bar if you have to and work your way up. With the squat, don't let the bar ride too high, you'd want it to ride on the meat of your upper back. Pull your shoulders back and flex your upper back. See where the thickness of your upper back is, below your neck line? That's where you'd want the bar to be. Keep your head level, looking straight ahead. Try to avoid looking up or down as it could throw your balance off and inhale, I mean INHALE before each rep. Your chest should be full. Breathing squats will help you out a lot. Take a huge breath before each rep, drop and exhale out of the hole. Dropping below parallel isn't necessary, but it can have it's benefits. Keep feet placement far enough apart that it's comfortable for you, but not so little that your knees will drift in on the dip. Don't stay in the hole, go down and get up all in one controlled motion.

A great addition to breathing squats are pullovers. Grab a 25lb dumbbell and lie with your upper back on a bench with your body perpendicular to the bench and hold your ass up. Now slowly let the db go behind your head keeping your arms slightly bent at the elbow and lift the weight overhead, you don't want to to use your arms in this exercise, you should feel it in your lats. Imagine standing up, holding your hands over your head and then bring them down in front of you without bending your arms. Do that, lying down with weight. It doesn't need to be heavy either. Do these between each set of squats or after you finish squats and you should see some benefits.

I should also say, I got nothing against machines, but the smith machine is more of a crutch than anything else because it will never help you with proper form. Machines have their place though. My old gym used to have a pullover machine and it was a hell of a lot better than doing free weights pullovers.

leftright

for the most part i avoid isolation exercises, leg raises just aren't good for you when you compare them to squats or deadlifts.

happyshark

Starfuck wrote:

I'm just going to come out and say it.
Don't bother with a smith machine. It in no way, shape or form will simulate the same vertical movement that a back squat will. Just start light, Start with the bar if you have to and work your way up. With the squat, don't let the bar ride too high, you'd want it to ride on the meat of your upper back. Pull your shoulders back and flex your upper back. See where the thickness of your upper back is, below your neck line? That's where you'd want the bar to be. Keep your head level, looking straight ahead. Try to avoid looking up or down as it could throw your balance off and inhale, I mean INHALE before each rep. Your chest should be full. Breathing squats will help
you out a lot. Take a huge breath before each rep, drop and exhale out of the hole. Dropping below parallel isn't necessary, but it can have it's benefits. Keep feet placement far enough apart that it's comfortable for you, but not so little that your knees will drift in on the dip. Don't stay in the hole, go down and get up all in one controlled motion.

I've used the smith machine for squats since I was in the 7th grade. I'm a sophmore in college now and can max out at a little over 400. My legs are huge and the best part of my body. My vertical leap is 36+, helped alot by doing squats.

You can use the smith machine or not, just make sure that some form of squats are in your routine.....if I were you I WOULD use the smith.

Pheezer

Thanatos wrote:

The best thing to do is to find someone who knows what they're doing, and can show you proper form for several different exercises.

Actually, thanks to the Internet...

http://www.bodyforlife.com/exercise/weighttraining.asp

There's a complete weight training regime mapped out for you. If you'll note on the left, there's this link:

http://www.bodyforlife.com/exercise/video.asp

Yes. Videos of people performing each excercise.

And this:
http://www.bodyforlife.com/exercise/animations.asp

So you can watch a looping demonstration on each excercise with the affected muscles highlighted.

Thanatos

pheezer FD wrote:

Thanatos wrote:

The best thing to do is to find someone who knows what they're doing, and can show you proper form for several different exercises.

Actually, thanks to the Internet...

http://www.bodyforlife.com/exercise/weighttraining.asp

There's a complete weight training regime mapped out for you. If you'll note on the left, there's this link:

http://www.bodyforlife.com/exercise/video.asp

Yes. Videos of people performing each excercise.

And this:
http://www.bodyforlife.com/exercise/animations.asp

So you can watch a looping demonstration on each excercise with the affected muscles highlighted.

I'm not saying it's not possible to do it without someone helping you. But it's a lot better if you have someone who knows what they're doing telling you what you're doing right and wrong. It's a lot easier to see what's right on a video than it is to see whether or not you yourself are doing something right.

Starfuck

Except I'm sure this young man would like to do things right.

Xenocide, you say the tall guys in your family have had some knee issues. Well, if you work your legs right, you can avoid most of that. Some of isolation stuff like leg raises and leg curls can have their place in a routine as an assistance, maybe at the end of a workout, key is you wouldn't exactly want to design a routine based around them. Strengthen the surrounding muscles and you should be able to avoid any issues.

As for deadlifts, being tall means you pull the weight a greater distance so if you decide to do them, just like squats, work your up from a light weight. Someone mentioned planks I think and that's a good assistance for the back. Reverse hypers are also good assistance work for the lower back. Try them with no weight at first, then work up to holding a 25lb plate and a 35lb plate.

The t-nation stuff isn't bad and good place to get started.

Best of luck.

oh and thanatos has a point with getting help
don't be afraid to ask someone in the gym that looks like they know what they are doing if they can critique your form or give a spot. gym folk can be pretty friendly and i'm always happy to give guys spots. take all gym advice with a grain of salt, because it can be as diverse in the gym as you can see it is on the internet.

But lift heavy, lift right and eat big and you'll see results. Don't change up routines too often either. Stick to it for a few months, 3-4 at least and work it hard. Give it a chance.

Pheezer

Thanatos wrote:

It's a lot easier to see what's right on a video than it is to see whether or not you yourself are doing something right.

This might have been one of the reasons mirrors got so popular.

Thanatos

Xenocide Geek wrote:

edit: Is there an alternate to doing squats/deadlifts? I have really long legs, and lots of the tall people in my family have had knee operations due to knee complications, so I'm afraid of screwing with my knees.

Like everyone else is saying, squats are pretty much the best leg exercise out there. If you do them right, you won't hurt your knees, and, in fact, having stronger leg muscles is going to make you a lot less likely to hurt your knees in other ways.

Malkor

Thanatos wrote:

Xenocide Geek wrote:

edit: Is there an alternate to doing squats/deadlifts? I have really long legs, and lots of the tall people in my family have had knee operations due to knee complications, so I'm afraid of screwing with my knees.

Like everyone else is saying, squats are pretty much the best leg exercise out there. If you do them right, you won't hurt your knees, and, in fact, having stronger leg muscles is going to make you a lot less likely to hurt your knees in other ways.

Nautilus machines are ok, but they'll make you lazy and if you're not careful you'll end up with really bad form.

Kewop Decam

ecchi wrote:

Kewop Decam wrote:

I got to the point where I could do 300 push-ups in less that 30 minutes (was doing 50 rep sets I believe). I'm pretty sure I could do that in less than 15 minutes now. It's a great way to get your body prepared for weight training.

I really don't see the point of doing this with push-ups. If you have no other options, sure, but doing an insane number of reps at a low weight isn't anywhere near as effective as lifting heavy stuff. Chin-ups and dips are great bodyweight exercises and you can easily add weight to them, but you're better off starting with dumbbell bench presses than push-ups. It's not like there's any risk of self-injury.

Thanks for reading half the post jackass

Pheezer

Kewop Decam wrote:

ecchi wrote:

Kewop Decam wrote:

I got to the point where I could do 300 push-ups in less that 30 minutes (was doing 50 rep sets I believe). I'm pretty sure I could do that in less than 15 minutes now. It's a great way to get your body prepared for weight training.

I really don't see the point of doing this with push-ups. If you have no other options, sure, but doing an insane number of reps at a low weight isn't anywhere near as effective as lifting heavy stuff. Chin-ups and dips are great bodyweight exercises and you can easily add weight to them, but you're better off starting with dumbbell bench presses than push-ups. It's not like there's any risk of self-injury.

Thanks for reading half the post jackass

The thing about push-ups is that it's a good all around workout for your chest and arms. And it builds up the sort of muscles that become very visible once you start working them with free weights. And anyone can do them, because no matter how weak you are, you can do one, and the next day, you can do one more, and so forth. Push-ups are a great way to get started in the first place, they're a great way to focus yourself and get your muscles warmed up at the start of a workout, they don't cost anything to do, and there's something damned impressive about being able to drop and pump out 50 or 100 push-ups without collapsing at the end of it.

Don't knock push-ups, they're a fantastic excercise. You shouldn't stop with push-ups, but as a starting point, push-ups are amongst the best for an absolute beginner. Assuming of course that you're keeping a rigid back and legs, toes/balls of the feet and palms being the only things touching the ground, and lowering to a 90 degree bend at the elbows with palms in line with shoulders.

Now that aside, drop the fucking bullshit attitude Kewop. Your reply added nothing to the conversation and weakened your original points by making you look like a prick.

ecchi

Kewop, I read your post and understood that in your situation all you could do was push-ups. However you were also advocating, albeit indirectly, that Xenocide Geek do something similar, and I disagree with that and wanted to give an alternative point of view simply so that he wouldn't take yours as gospel.

I do understand, also, that it "works muscles that'll become visible later", but anyone who's 6'2 and 188 pounds should be strong enough to start benching right away. I was at 5'6 110 lbs. If you aren't ramping up the weight, you aren't going to be gaining strength or muscle mass as effectively as you could be, and that's very hard to do with push-ups.

Though, hey, knock yourself out with them... not like they'll hurt.


Also, re: smith machine: I recommend against it in any situation. The form just isn't the same when the bar has to travel in a straight line and the lift loses a lot of the benefits from being 'compound' in the first place.

Starfuck kind of touched on this already, but be sure to do your squats at least to parallel, if not farther. This is actually less stressful on your knees than otherwise, despite what some retard gym trainers would like you to believe.

stixs4321

Squats are a great exercise but if you got poor flexibility and poor form on the exercise you will only further fuck up your knees or back. I reccomend you start with single leg stuff at the moment like lunges or step-ups to get the glutes firing and build healthy knees. You can still do squats of course but work on single leg stuff first esepcially if your family has a history of knee pain as single leg work can be really helpful for bad knees.

I reccomend you throw in rows into the routine as they're a staple exercise. www.bodybuilding.com has got some great videos of people performing exercises with pretty good form and they got a paragraph describing the form. Their articles however are not the best...

Dalboz

stixs4321 wrote:

Squats are a great exercise but if you got poor flexibility and poor form on the exercise you will only further fuck up your knees or back.

This is extremely important and deserves emphasis. Most of the time when someone hurts themselves exercising, particularly their back, they are doing something wrong or using a very poor form. For example, I do curls with a barbell to work my biceps, but I have to pay careful attention to my form. Otherwise, when I'm doing the curls, I may have a tendency to lean forward and back with the motion of the weight. Not only does this put more emphasis on working the back than the arms, but I could seriously hurt myself.

Exercise is also a mental workout of sorts, because you have to focus and pay attention to what your entire body is doing, and not just the muscles you are focusing on in a particular exercise. Loosing this focus can lead to serious injury.

n1t0

if you have absolutely no upper body strength and no knowledge of weights...


Try taking up martial arts.

You'll exercise your entire body and in the process of improving over all fitness you'll learn some nifty stuff.