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Are we human, or are we [DOODLE]?

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Myk: I just started watching that show. I watched it straight for like two weeks, and am now completely caught up for the final half!

    In terms of your sketch. Try and be more confident with your lines. You have three or four lines where just one can explain it just as well or better. Check out this image for example. See how much information can be put into a single line?

    This will help your painting too if you carry the knowledge over to your edge control between shapes.

    Sublimus on
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    MykonosMykonos Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    yeah that's a good example sublimus, I think i got a bit carried away with 'chiseling' out the form, which is a weird habit of mine.

    But yeah BSG has got me consumed moreso than any other series on television...man, these next seven weeks are going to rock my world!

    Mykonos on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "I was born; six gun in my hand; behind the gun; I make my final stand"~Bad Company
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    harrykharryk Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I <3 ahnuld
    ahnuldbf2.jpg

    harryk on
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    CyberMonkeytron3000CyberMonkeytron3000 Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Myk- I demand several pages of sketches like that- you coloured stuff can be pretty hit or miss- but that doodle is real sweet.

    Some sorta ant solider thing...

    antsoliderct9.jpg

    CyberMonkeytron3000 on
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    NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Myk- I demand several pages of sketches like that- you coloured stuff can be pretty hit or miss- but that doodle is real sweet.

    Some sorta ant solider thing...

    antsoliderct9.jpg

    The thing I love the most is how everything is scaled so large. They are using human bits in their war.

    NotASenator on
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    PiousPious Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    This one, I really want your guyses input. What would you add to it? I noticed one of her feet doesn't look right. Oh, and that skull is supposed to be dyed into her hair.
    clair.jpg

    Pious on
    Untitled_1_4.jpg
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    ShiboeShiboe Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Pious wrote: »
    This one, I really want your guyses input. What would you add to it? I noticed one of her feet doesn't look right. Oh, and that skull is supposed to be dyed into her hair.
    skullwomans

    Well where are you wanting to go with it? It's a fine doodle but I don't think the technique your using would lend itself well to coloring (I could be wrong!) so to go further I would think you would need to clean up and remove bits, not add more...

    Weird things:
    - Hair dyed in a shape? I don't think that's too possible unless her hair never moves? It's a cool idea I think, but prolly better to blame it on wizards or something than try to say she dyed it that way.
    - Left eye heavily outlined? Only had enough mascara for one?
    - I want to think her legs would be more concealed at that angle, to me it looks less like foreshortening and more like they are bent more forward than her torso and simply get small. But I'm not up on the fish bowl cam so maybe it works like that.
    - I don't like the arms, or legs, bleh I don't know they just don't seem to be working to great. Rough angle to work with, I think if it where me I would try to go more "out there" with the lines and foreshortening to really get the point accross and maybe hide some deficits. ;D

    Hope that was helpful.

    And as for cybermonkey, amazing ant is amazing. I love the little HUD between his antanae.

    Shiboe on
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    PiousPious Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Shiboe wrote: »
    Pious wrote: »
    This one, I really want your guyses input. What would you add to it? I noticed one of her feet doesn't look right. Oh, and that skull is supposed to be dyed into her hair.
    skullwomans

    stuff

    Ok, I see what you mean with the legs.

    My technique? The fact that I'm drawing with an ink pen?

    Edits:

    clair.jpg

    clairice.jpg

    Well, I got rid of the skull hair. I think one of her shoulders is bulging to far. I think I got the legs a little better. But They need more work. I'll redraw this image a few more times this week.

    Pious on
    Untitled_1_4.jpg
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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Myk- I demand several pages of sketches like that- you coloured stuff can be pretty hit or miss- but that doodle is real sweet.

    Some sorta ant solider thing...

    Awesome Ant

    Love the image, but you have to do something about that cast shadow. It doesn't match the lighting of the image at all.

    Sublimus on
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    MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I kinda liked the skull hair.

    Metalbourne on
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    ShiboeShiboe Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Ya I liked the skull hair too Pious, I just meant you need a better reason. ;D
    Anyways, here's a shitty draw-over to illustrate more what I was trying to get at. Hiding the lower end because of the angle, not bringing them more out from under the body. And by your technique i meant "many scratchy lines." I liked your first one better.

    clair2tc6.jpgclairice.jpg

    Shiboe on
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    NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Shiboe hit it pretty nicely. From the head to the waist, it seems like we are looking down at her and her waist is farther away from us, and from the waist to the legs, they almost seem to be on a parallel plane or coming towards us.

    I would think that drawing lines down from the shoulders and maybe blocking the form out with geometric shapes would highlight that more.

    NotASenator on
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    TheMorningStarTheMorningStar Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    This isn't a doodle, but I didn't want to make a thread just for this:

    oil on 18"x24" canvas, 5 hours in:
    photohl4.jpg
    w800.png

    reference:
    http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-117.jpg

    I'm painting a crop version which you can see in the pic of the painting.

    I'm not a painter, but I'm trying to be. I've only every drawn, and being forced by my professor to not hold the brush like a pencil has been difficult, but I think I'm getting the hang of it. I used to spend hours copying my brothers comic books by hand and always thought it was a waste of time, but apparently it really helped give me some observation skill.

    TheMorningStar on
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    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Man, I thought I'd seen every d-day image there was to see, but I've never seen that one. Also I'm loving it so far.

    Mustang on
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    exitexit Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    still experimenting with colors/lighting

    kullazfordawarbosssh7.jpg

    i'm hoping at some point i can switch to "oh hey i got colors/lighting right"

    MAYBE TOMORROW

    exit on
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    LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    The current problem though with her legs was he made them Flat in other words they did not go downward, they whent Forward so therefore it was like having a Small man's legs attached to a giant women with piercings You could literally cut off the legs and draw another figure thats in a normal standing pose with them.

    Edit: and because he had to put the arms in proportions with the legs, It bended the arms making the arm's also look incorrect.

    Was gonna draw a example but shiboe basically showed why

    Loomdun on
    splat
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    PiousPious Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Shiboe wrote: »
    Ya I liked the skull hair too Pious, I just meant you need a better reason. ;D
    Anyways, here's a shitty draw-over to illustrate more what I was trying to get at. Hiding the lower end because of the angle, not bringing them more out from under the body. And by your technique i meant "many scratchy lines." I liked your first one better.

    clair2tc6.jpgclairice.jpg

    Yeah, I liked the first one too...And now i'm glad I get to keep the skull hair. But I need to make it look a little more plausible.

    Thanks for the draw over. I see what I did wrong witht he legs, its just hard to beat that into me when I'm actually drawing it you know. Like I see what you mean, but when I draw it, its just....errr.

    Pious on
    Untitled_1_4.jpg
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    LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Thats because people Flatten images it's the natural thing to do. Not bring depth. This is why when you work from a photograph its a thousand times easier, the photo flattens everything for you. All you need to do is observe and copy or perhaps slightly alter it in some form and use it as a reference.

    Loomdun on
    splat
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    MangarooMangaroo LondonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Hey guys, i've been lurkin here the past few days and it's got me really motivated to learn how to draw. So today I tried a B&W drawing of keira knightley with a heavy dependency on photo references (one in particular).

    Yesterday i watched a lot of speed paintings done by this guy and what i think he basically does is draw, draw shadows, draw highlights, blur, repeat. And I've been trying to do that, and as i get further on, i try to turn down the blurring.

    Problem is, i dont really know what im doing. I struggled a lot with getting the right face. At first it was too much like a feminine guy. One of the eyes just didn't match the other one no matter how many times i altered it so i just c&p (dont even want to say it fully) to the other side and blended it.

    So i was wondering if someone can do a quick draw over to show me what i needed to change? I'm not too worried about the ears and their shadows etc as i was planning on getting some photos of an ear and just studying it + my anatomy books. But what i know i will struggle to do is the face. Detailing the face, as in, everything between the eyes, nose, mouth and ears! Any advice?

    EDIT: Made the changes that i knew about on my laptop during lunch:
    OLD:
    kkys.jpg

    New:

    kkedit.jpg

    I want to really make this work before i move on..even though i spent a good 4-5 hours yesterday trying to draw. Although I spent a lot of time making a few brushes for drawing and playing with opacity, flow and wacom settings.

    Mangaroo on
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    ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    The technique in that youtube "speedpainting" video is dumb. I heartily recommend you NOT try to emulate that.

    Post the reference you're using for Keira.

    Scosglen on
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    MangarooMangaroo LondonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    He gets amazing results, why is it dumb?

    thanks for helping, here is the reference photo

    KKref.jpg

    edit: although to be honest, it was tiresome going over and over the same shadows and highlights 3 times and the blur did feel like cheating...

    Mangaroo on
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    Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    NotACrook wrote: »
    Myk- I demand several pages of sketches like that- you coloured stuff can be pretty hit or miss- but that doodle is real sweet.

    Some sorta ant solider thing...

    antsoliderct9.jpg

    The thing I love the most is how everything is scaled so large. They are using human bits in their war.

    Human bits for their war on humans.

    Synthetic Orange on
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    ShiboeShiboe Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Loomdun wrote: »
    Thats because people Flatten images it's the natural thing to do. Not bring depth. This is why when you work from a photograph its a thousand times easier, the photo flattens everything for you. All you need to do is observe and copy or perhaps slightly alter it in some form and use it as a reference.

    I really don't think that's the goal though man. I mean, ya I'm still pretty bleh so it helps to use references here and there, and I really should be doing some studies but, I think the goal is to be able to draw people without reference, not depend on them. I don't want that at least. Most stuff I do is unreferenced on purpose, then if I get stuck I grudgingly try and find one. I'm trying to learn how to create, not copy.

    Shiboe on
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    LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    um, I never said use photos I avoid photos, I'm saying that hes having difficulty because people naturally flatten things which is why working from photo is so simple because it flattens the image for you already. Because there use to be idiots I remember a long time ago who said working from a photo is hard.

    Loomdun on
    splat
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    BetelgeuseBetelgeuse Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I really don't understand why some artists have such a thing against using references. The greatest artists of all time used references frequently, so why is it like some sort of... badge of dishonor if you need to use reference?

    Betelgeuse on
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    NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    rockwell_self.jpg

    NotASenator on
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    BetelgeuseBetelgeuse Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Yeah, guys. Are you trying to suggest you are above Norman Rockwell? 'Cause you aren't and never will be.

    Betelgeuse on
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    ShiboeShiboe Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Betelgeuse wrote: »
    Yeah, guys. Are you trying to suggest you are above Norman Rockwell? 'Cause you aren't and never will be.

    Ya, clearly I was saying I'm better than Norman Rockwell. Are you serious?

    Before this gets any sillier/stupider, I'm stating my preference, my goal in art is to be able to create without reliance on reference, not to make stylized copies of photographs. I might not ever achieve it, but that's what I'm after. And I do make a distinction between drawing from photo and life. And I also understand that one can make a very good living off of photo stylization or however you want to label it. I'm sorry if I stepped on anyones toes, I think my mistake was positioning my opinion on other people like it was the right way. It's only what I think, and I am not a successful flourishing artist so, take it with a grain of salt (but no more than a gram!).

    Shiboe on
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    mullymully Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    norman rockwell, did not, according to that painting, wear very "painterly" clothing

    who the hell dresses up for a day at the office in order to paint?

    mully on
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    beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    mully wrote: »
    norman rockwell, did not, according to that painting, wear very "painterly" clothing

    who the hell dresses up for a day at the office in order to paint?

    no one on the corner has swagga like rockwell.

    beavotron on
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    NotASenatorNotASenator Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Shiboe wrote: »
    Betelgeuse wrote: »
    Yeah, guys. Are you trying to suggest you are above Norman Rockwell? 'Cause you aren't and never will be.

    Ya, clearly I was saying I'm better than Norman Rockwell. Are you serious?

    Before this gets any sillier/stupider, I'm stating my preference, my goal in art is to be able to create without reliance on reference, not to make stylized copies of photographs. I might not ever achieve it, but that's what I'm after. And I do make a distinction between drawing from photo and life. And I also understand that one can make a very good living off of photo stylization or however you want to label it. I'm sorry if I stepped on anyones toes, I think my mistake was positioning my opinion on other people like it was the right way. It's only what I think, and I am not a successful flourishing artist so, take it with a grain of salt (but no more than a gram!).

    The issue I could see is that the way you state your opinion is condescending to people who use photo references, calling it "reliance" like it's a crutch or something to augment a lack of talent, and then going on to call work based on photographic reference "photo stylization" which sounds terribly negative to me.

    Someone reading your posts could easily assume that you think in the hierarchy of artistic endeavors, using photo references ranks below drawing from life or directly from your imagination.

    NotASenator on
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    BetelgeuseBetelgeuse Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I think it also helps to note that when I talk about using photo reference, I don't mean taking a photo and copying the whole thing and calling that my drawing. I mean using reference for specific elements of a drawing that is otherwise from imagination, such as referencing a pose or the way a foot looks in a certain position, et cetera.

    Though that's not to say that copying a photo for practice doesn't have its own merits.

    Betelgeuse on
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    NibCromNibCrom Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    mully wrote: »
    norman rockwell, did not, according to that painting, wear very "painterly" clothing

    who the hell dresses up for a day at the office in order to paint?

    Haha. I usually wear a suit and tie.

    NibCrom on
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    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Top hat and tails for me, how can you do style if you aren't style?

    Mustang on
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    crawdaddiocrawdaddio Tacoma, WARegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    I personally place more emphasis on comfort when I paint, mainly because I work best in really long stretches, and something really fancy would just feel too restrictive.

    That's why I paint in a tutu.

    crawdaddio on
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    ShiboeShiboe Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    NotACrook wrote: »
    The issue I could see is that the way you state your opinion is condescending to people who use photo references, calling it "reliance" like it's a crutch or something to augment a lack of talent, and then going on to call work based on photographic reference "photo stylization" which sounds terribly negative to me.

    Someone reading your posts could easily assume that you think in the hierarchy of artistic endeavors, using photo references ranks below drawing from life or directly from your imagination.

    Well I'm honestly sorry if it's belittling anyone, that's not my intention. But your second paragraph is correct. Someone could easily assume that I think the hierarchy exists, because I do think that. Different methods command different levels of respect in my eyes, that's just how I feel. I don't think that makes me right, but it definitely is how I feel.

    A painting done from a live model is different than a painting done from a picture is different than a painting done from a painting is different from a painting traced and so on. Maybe you're of the opinion that the result is all that matters, and honestly from a business standpoint, that is probably the correct one. I don't feel that way though, at least not right now.

    Shiboe on
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    crawdaddiocrawdaddio Tacoma, WARegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    You know, it's not just Norman Rockwell, or modern artists:

    NSFW, but just because it's Romantic painting nudity.

    EDIT The site the picture comes from has a few more, as well.

    crawdaddio on
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    MangarooMangaroo LondonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Ok, I tried this again but on paper this time (went out and got some new pencils and paper :D ) and same problem again with the eyes, just cant seem to get them to match!

    should i be posting in another section btw?

    Mangaroo on
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    GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    The hell? She lost two full cup sizes in that painting. What a gyp!

    Godfather on
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    crawdaddiocrawdaddio Tacoma, WARegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Mangaroo wrote: »
    Ok, I tried this again but on paper this time (went out and got some new pencils and paper :D ) and same problem again with the eyes, just cant seem to get them to match!

    should i be posting in another section btw?

    If you're up for scanning that pencil drawing so we can help you figure out what's wrong, and if you're thinking about finishing the piece, sure.

    crawdaddio on
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