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Whereas no actual communist country has ever been.
I love the "no actual communist country has ever been" argument. The truth is that every time a country tries to be communist they either wind up letting a brutal dictator turn them into a hell hole or have to eventually turn to the free market to survive. Communism just doesn't work in the real world.
To be fair, most of them start as dictatorships and spiral out of control from there.
China seems to be doing okay... although they are probably not the truest ideal of communism as envisioned by Marx. I somehow don't expect to see a McDonald's in the midst of a communist Utopia.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
There are socialist Ideals that are just fine and no France and Germany aren't part of the iron curtain. I was just making the argument that i like the current economic stance of the American system. I'm against the nationalization of industries or businesses.
oneeyedjack909 on
"A mans first duty is to his conscience and honor"- Mark Twain
"Those who are willing to give up essential liberties for a little safety diserve neither liberty nor safety"-Benjamin Franklin
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
uh... who the hell told you that?
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
the current Libertarian mindset seems really off to me. As in they always seem to be really lopsided towards the rigth is which "socialist" ideals they rail againsts.
correct me if I'm wrong but I' never heard a librearian speak out agaisnt:
farm subsidies
lobbying interests
no bid government contracts
the miltary industrial complex
taking away states rights on things like medical marijuana
Also, are you kidding? I mean, libertarianism in general doesn't get a whole lot of press outside the internets, Ayn Rand crazies running their mouths and Ron Paul revolution zealots, but those issues are certainly discussed by rational libertarians.
I mean, here is a link to a Cato article from 1989 talking about drug legalization as a means to reduce human misery.
'Lobbying interests' is suffeciently vague that I don't know what you want there. Generally I think the belief is that a lot of current law a la McCain-Feingold is an abridgement of free speech, but that private sector/public sector entanglements are to be avoided.
I'm sure they aren't fans of no-bid government contracts or the entanglements between industry and the military, but its harder to track down policy positions on that because its just not talked about a lot.
By "lobbying interests" I mean how it's somehow ok to put the the free market on a pedestal when our laws constantly tinker with the market often at the behest of the companies themselves. When you give a tax break to the oil company instead of the wind turbine company you are in fact being socialist. It's a matter of degree of course but we do not have anything even close to a free market.
To be fair, most of them start as dictatorships and spiral out of control from there.
China seems to be doing okay... although they are probably not the truest ideal of communism as envisioned by Marx. I somehow don't expect to see a McDonald's in the midst of a communist Utopia.
yeah except for the forced abortions and abuse of human rights in the name of productivity
oneeyedjack909 on
"A mans first duty is to his conscience and honor"- Mark Twain
"Those who are willing to give up essential liberties for a little safety diserve neither liberty nor safety"-Benjamin Franklin
There are socialist Ideals that are just fine and no France and Germany aren't part of the iron curtain. I was just making the argument that i like the current economic stance of the American system. I'm against the nationalization of industries or businesses.
That's fine but you do realize you just painted half of Europe with the same brush as Stalinist Russia right?
nexuscrawler on
0
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
To be fair, most of them start as dictatorships and spiral out of control from there.
China seems to be doing okay... although they are probably not the truest ideal of communism as envisioned by Marx. I somehow don't expect to see a McDonald's in the midst of a communist Utopia.
yeah except for the forced abortions and abuse of human rights in the name of productivity
well, as long as those rudimentary free markets are doing okay, right? What does a fine capitalist like yourself care about human rights and forced abortions for anyway?
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
uh... who the hell told you that?
Fox News.
Socialism is the only realistic way to run a decent sized country. In fact the United States of America was founded as a Socialist country and remains so today. Anyone that tells you differently is reading the wrong textbooks. Probably the ones pushed by Chuck Norris.
Public education, public roads, a publically funded military, etc. These aren't capitalist tenets people, try to keep up.
There are socialist Ideals that are just fine and no France and Germany aren't part of the iron curtain. I was just making the argument that i like the current economic stance of the American system. I'm against the nationalization of industries or businesses.
That's fine but you do realize you just painted half of Europe with the same brush as Stalinist Russia right?
Well you know what other country was capitalist don't you?
There are socialist Ideals that are just fine and no France and Germany aren't part of the iron curtain. I was just making the argument that i like the current economic stance of the American system. I'm against the nationalization of industries or businesses.
Bravo. When workers were getting shat on during the Industrial revolution, the US didn't nationalize the fucking coal industry in order to fix it. They enacted laws to protect the workers, which is the government's real job. Nationalization sucks.
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
Socialism is one of the "steps" on the way to communism. It requires a proletariat dictator/authority. The men who become that authority on the way to communism tend to really like it, and the change in government stops while they kill off anyone who disagrees while they horde money and power.
Sheep on
0
ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
While "pure communist" examples are basically nonexistent, one only has to look at Somalia in the 1990s to find an example of "pure capitalism."
It's a false dichotomy, really. Capitalism isn't the polar opposite of socialism by any stretch.
To be fair, most of them start as dictatorships and spiral out of control from there.
China seems to be doing okay... although they are probably not the truest ideal of communism as envisioned by Marx. I somehow don't expect to see a McDonald's in the midst of a communist Utopia.
yeah except for the forced abortions and abuse of human rights in the name of productivity
well, as long as those rudimentary free markets are doing okay, right? What does a fine capitalist like yourself care about human rights and forced abortions for anyway?
Are you suggesting that America is just as bad as china? certainly there have been abuses of human ritghts by companies in the past but I dont see how nationalization has any effect on that seeing as a nationalized industry is just as capable of doing the unspeakable as a private corporation.
oneeyedjack909 on
"A mans first duty is to his conscience and honor"- Mark Twain
"Those who are willing to give up essential liberties for a little safety diserve neither liberty nor safety"-Benjamin Franklin
To be fair, most of them start as dictatorships and spiral out of control from there.
China seems to be doing okay... although they are probably not the truest ideal of communism as envisioned by Marx. I somehow don't expect to see a McDonald's in the midst of a communist Utopia.
yeah except for the forced abortions and abuse of human rights in the name of productivity
well, as long as those rudimentary free markets are doing okay, right? What does a fine capitalist like yourself care about human rights and forced abortions for anyway?
Are you suggesting that America is just as bad as china? certainly there have been abuses of human ritghts by companies in the past but I dont see how nationalization has any effect on that seeing as a nationalized industry is just as capable of doing the unspeakable as a private corporation.
Have you noticed how every time you say "are you suggesting" you follow it up with something completely ridiculous and unsupported by anything I've said?
No, America is not as bad as China, because they have enacted laws and regulations that RUN COMPLETELY COUNTER TO THE NOTION OF PURE CAPITALISM.
I may, however, be suggesting that you are uninformed.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
uh... who the hell told you that?
Fox News.
Socialism is the only realistic way to run a decent sized country. In fact the United States of America was founded as a Socialist country and remains so today. Anyone that tells you differently is reading the wrong textbooks. Probably the ones pushed by Chuck Norris.
Public education, public roads, a publically funded military, etc. These aren't capitalist tenets people, try to keep up.
Anything public will be successful, right? I mean, public education is a major success in the USA am I right??
There are socialist Ideals that are just fine and no France and Germany aren't part of the iron curtain. I was just making the argument that i like the current economic stance of the American system. I'm against the nationalization of industries or businesses.
Bravo. When workers were getting shat on during the Industrial revolution, the US didn't nationalize the fucking coal industry in order to fix it. They enacted laws to protect the workers, which is the government's real job. Nationalization sucks.
We used to be more free market and it reduced our labor force to little more than indentured servitude.
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
uh... who the hell told you that?
Fox News.
Socialism is the only realistic way to run a decent sized country. In fact the United States of America was founded as a Socialist country and remains so today. Anyone that tells you differently is reading the wrong textbooks. Probably the ones pushed by Chuck Norris.
Public education, public roads, a publically funded military, etc. These aren't capitalist tenets people, try to keep up.
Anything public will be successful, right? I mean, public education is a major success in the USA am I right??
USA!! USA!! USA!!
thank you for this Emanon
oneeyedjack909 on
"A mans first duty is to his conscience and honor"- Mark Twain
"Those who are willing to give up essential liberties for a little safety diserve neither liberty nor safety"-Benjamin Franklin
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
uh... who the hell told you that?
Fox News.
Socialism is the only realistic way to run a decent sized country. In fact the United States of America was founded as a Socialist country and remains so today. Anyone that tells you differently is reading the wrong textbooks. Probably the ones pushed by Chuck Norris.
Public education, public roads, a publically funded military, etc. These aren't capitalist tenets people, try to keep up.
Anything public will be successful, right? I mean, public education is a major success in the USA am I right??
USA!! USA!! USA!!
We should totally go back ot a 75% illiteracy rate right?
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
uh... who the hell told you that?
Fox News.
Socialism is the only realistic way to run a decent sized country. In fact the United States of America was founded as a Socialist country and remains so today. Anyone that tells you differently is reading the wrong textbooks. Probably the ones pushed by Chuck Norris.
Public education, public roads, a publically funded military, etc. These aren't capitalist tenets people, try to keep up.
Anything public will be successful, right? I mean, public education is a major success in the USA am I right??
USA!! USA!! USA!!
Because anything Private will also be successful? Go Enron, Go Savings and Loan, Go Bear Sterns! Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac! Go Meat Packing Industry circa 1910! go Triangle Shirtwaist Factory!!
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
uh... who the hell told you that?
Fox News.
Socialism is the only realistic way to run a decent sized country. In fact the United States of America was founded as a Socialist country and remains so today. Anyone that tells you differently is reading the wrong textbooks. Probably the ones pushed by Chuck Norris.
Public education, public roads, a publically funded military, etc. These aren't capitalist tenets people, try to keep up.
Anything public will be successful, right? I mean, public education is a major success in the USA am I right??
USA!! USA!! USA!!
We should totally go back ot a 75% illiteracy rate right?
uuuh ahem prior to public schools we maintained a 98 percent literacy rate.
oneeyedjack909 on
"A mans first duty is to his conscience and honor"- Mark Twain
"Those who are willing to give up essential liberties for a little safety diserve neither liberty nor safety"-Benjamin Franklin
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
uh... who the hell told you that?
Fox News.
Socialism is the only realistic way to run a decent sized country. In fact the United States of America was founded as a Socialist country and remains so today. Anyone that tells you differently is reading the wrong textbooks. Probably the ones pushed by Chuck Norris.
Public education, public roads, a publically funded military, etc. These aren't capitalist tenets people, try to keep up.
Anything public will be successful, right? I mean, public education is a major success in the USA am I right??
USA!! USA!! USA!!
Public education works if it's handled correctly. Conservatives have spent years trying to gut it because of a misguided philosophy that thinks the state helping children is somehow bad. Other countries, you know the ones that invest in public eduction, don't have those problems.
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
Socialism is one of the "steps" on the way to communism. It requires a proletariat dictator/authority. The men who become that authority on the way to communism tend to really like it, and the change in government stops while they kill off anyone who disagrees while they horde money and power.
Steps in what sense? If you look at a list of communist and former communist nations, you see a vast majority of former monarchies and colonies that went directly communist. The only nations that went from socialist to communist were in Eastern Europe and they only did so because the Soviet troops occupying their countries after WWII didn't give them much choice.
As for the real socialist nations - i.e. most of Europe and the developed world - most have progressed in a pretty linear fashion from conservative democracies to liberal democracies, with a steady increase in civil liberties and standard of living. The only exception I can think of are America, because of several decades under a particularly moronic brand of conservatism; Italy, for the same reason plus massive corruption; and Singapore, because they seem to like their extensive social control in the public sphere.
wishda on
0
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Anything public will be successful, right? I mean, public education is a major success in the USA am I right??
USA!! USA!! USA!!
I'm guessing this was sarcasm.
What countries have educational systems that are better than the US? Dare I say you'd bring up countries with public education? The state of the USA's schools has less to do with the nature of public education and more to do with mismanagement and corruption. Which is usually how public systems fail.
I can't imagine how a 100% private school system would operate without vastly increasing the gap between the wealthy and the poor.
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
uh... who the hell told you that?
Fox News.
Socialism is the only realistic way to run a decent sized country. In fact the United States of America was founded as a Socialist country and remains so today. Anyone that tells you differently is reading the wrong textbooks. Probably the ones pushed by Chuck Norris.
Public education, public roads, a publically funded military, etc. These aren't capitalist tenets people, try to keep up.
Anything public will be successful, right? I mean, public education is a major success in the USA am I right??
USA!! USA!! USA!!
We should totally go back ot a 75% illiteracy rate right?
uuuh ahem prior to public schools we maintained a 98 percent literacy rate.
yeah, I'm gonna need a citation for that. I find it hard to believe that the local blacksmith apprentice was literate.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
uh... who the hell told you that?
Fox News.
Socialism is the only realistic way to run a decent sized country. In fact the United States of America was founded as a Socialist country and remains so today. Anyone that tells you differently is reading the wrong textbooks. Probably the ones pushed by Chuck Norris.
Public education, public roads, a publically funded military, etc. These aren't capitalist tenets people, try to keep up.
Anything public will be successful, right? I mean, public education is a major success in the USA am I right??
USA!! USA!! USA!!
We should totally go back ot a 75% illiteracy rate right?
uuuh ahem prior to public schools we maintained a 98 percent literacy rate
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
uh... who the hell told you that?
Fox News.
Socialism is the only realistic way to run a decent sized country. In fact the United States of America was founded as a Socialist country and remains so today. Anyone that tells you differently is reading the wrong textbooks. Probably the ones pushed by Chuck Norris.
Public education, public roads, a publically funded military, etc. These aren't capitalist tenets people, try to keep up.
Anything public will be successful, right? I mean, public education is a major success in the USA am I right??
USA!! USA!! USA!!
We should totally go back ot a 75% illiteracy rate right?
uuuh ahem prior to public schools we maintained a 98 percent literacy rate.
...Are you insane? Cite this right fucking now, because I'm calling bullshit.
As I recall communism was first called socialism and communism was later developed as a spin off.
uh... who the hell told you that?
Fox News.
Socialism is the only realistic way to run a decent sized country. In fact the United States of America was founded as a Socialist country and remains so today. Anyone that tells you differently is reading the wrong textbooks. Probably the ones pushed by Chuck Norris.
Public education, public roads, a publically funded military, etc. These aren't capitalist tenets people, try to keep up.
Anything public will be successful, right? I mean, public education is a major success in the USA am I right??
USA!! USA!! USA!!
We should totally go back ot a 75% illiteracy rate right?
uuuh ahem prior to public schools we maintained a 98 percent literacy rate.
yeah, I'm gonna need a citation for that. I find it hard to believe that the local blacksmith apprentice was literate.
Posts
Are you saying places like Germany and France are part of the iron curtain now?
Can I call nationalism fascism then?
*facepalm*
To be fair, most of them start as dictatorships and spiral out of control from there.
China seems to be doing okay... although they are probably not the truest ideal of communism as envisioned by Marx. I somehow don't expect to see a McDonald's in the midst of a communist Utopia.
"Those who are willing to give up essential liberties for a little safety diserve neither liberty nor safety"-Benjamin Franklin
uh... who the hell told you that?
yeah except for the forced abortions and abuse of human rights in the name of productivity
"Those who are willing to give up essential liberties for a little safety diserve neither liberty nor safety"-Benjamin Franklin
That's fine but you do realize you just painted half of Europe with the same brush as Stalinist Russia right?
well, as long as those rudimentary free markets are doing okay, right? What does a fine capitalist like yourself care about human rights and forced abortions for anyway?
Socialism is the only realistic way to run a decent sized country. In fact the United States of America was founded as a Socialist country and remains so today. Anyone that tells you differently is reading the wrong textbooks. Probably the ones pushed by Chuck Norris.
Public education, public roads, a publically funded military, etc. These aren't capitalist tenets people, try to keep up.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Well you know what other country was capitalist don't you?
N-<snatched by Godwin police>
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Bravo. When workers were getting shat on during the Industrial revolution, the US didn't nationalize the fucking coal industry in order to fix it. They enacted laws to protect the workers, which is the government's real job. Nationalization sucks.
Socialism is one of the "steps" on the way to communism. It requires a proletariat dictator/authority. The men who become that authority on the way to communism tend to really like it, and the change in government stops while they kill off anyone who disagrees while they horde money and power.
It's a false dichotomy, really. Capitalism isn't the polar opposite of socialism by any stretch.
The UK still has stamp tax, so maybe not the best example..
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Are you suggesting that America is just as bad as china? certainly there have been abuses of human ritghts by companies in the past but I dont see how nationalization has any effect on that seeing as a nationalized industry is just as capable of doing the unspeakable as a private corporation.
"Those who are willing to give up essential liberties for a little safety diserve neither liberty nor safety"-Benjamin Franklin
I don't see why this is so surprising to people.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
For as long as I've been alive, yeah.
There was that wild swing into fascism circa 2001, but we seem to be over that to a degree.
Have you noticed how every time you say "are you suggesting" you follow it up with something completely ridiculous and unsupported by anything I've said?
No, America is not as bad as China, because they have enacted laws and regulations that RUN COMPLETELY COUNTER TO THE NOTION OF PURE CAPITALISM.
I may, however, be suggesting that you are uninformed.
Sweet!
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Anything public will be successful, right? I mean, public education is a major success in the USA am I right??
USA!! USA!! USA!!
We used to be more free market and it reduced our labor force to little more than indentured servitude.
"Those who are willing to give up essential liberties for a little safety diserve neither liberty nor safety"-Benjamin Franklin
thank you for this Emanon
"Those who are willing to give up essential liberties for a little safety diserve neither liberty nor safety"-Benjamin Franklin
We should totally go back ot a 75% illiteracy rate right?
Yeah! Fuck those guys for lending us so much money!
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Because anything Private will also be successful? Go Enron, Go Savings and Loan, Go Bear Sterns! Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac! Go Meat Packing Industry circa 1910! go Triangle Shirtwaist Factory!!
uuuh ahem prior to public schools we maintained a 98 percent literacy rate.
"Those who are willing to give up essential liberties for a little safety diserve neither liberty nor safety"-Benjamin Franklin
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Steps in what sense? If you look at a list of communist and former communist nations, you see a vast majority of former monarchies and colonies that went directly communist. The only nations that went from socialist to communist were in Eastern Europe and they only did so because the Soviet troops occupying their countries after WWII didn't give them much choice.
As for the real socialist nations - i.e. most of Europe and the developed world - most have progressed in a pretty linear fashion from conservative democracies to liberal democracies, with a steady increase in civil liberties and standard of living. The only exception I can think of are America, because of several decades under a particularly moronic brand of conservatism; Italy, for the same reason plus massive corruption; and Singapore, because they seem to like their extensive social control in the public sphere.
I'm guessing this was sarcasm.
What countries have educational systems that are better than the US? Dare I say you'd bring up countries with public education? The state of the USA's schools has less to do with the nature of public education and more to do with mismanagement and corruption. Which is usually how public systems fail.
I can't imagine how a 100% private school system would operate without vastly increasing the gap between the wealthy and the poor.
yeah, I'm gonna need a citation for that. I find it hard to believe that the local blacksmith apprentice was literate.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
"Those who are willing to give up essential liberties for a little safety diserve neither liberty nor safety"-Benjamin Franklin
Edit: Cite something fucking credible.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.