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Conservatism isn't cool man

123457»

Posts

  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Yar wrote: »
    Everyone who identifies as being a libertarian is basically insane.
    This, what you said, is fucking insane. Seriously. There are very moderate Libertarians.
    Yes, these people, if they had some sense, would not identify as libertarians. Saying you're a libertarian means something rather more skewed away from centrist.

    Eh, Will Wilkinson and Brink Lindsey, while I have my disagreements with them in various areas, aren't crazy in the least.

    Loren Michael on
    2ezikn6.jpg
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I find most libertarians spot on when they talk about freedoms, and police brutality, and yadayada. Then they start talking about how police should be privatized as if that would create some situation in which things would be better, like they live in a goddamn parallel universe where monstrous corporations are big soft lovable entities who would protect people who can't pay them.

    It makes my head hurt, in my mind they are so right on many important issues but then depart for crazy land in other areas.

    The problem is that never has there been a more extreme case of crazy, very vocal minority than within the Libertarian party.
    Most of us know privatizing roads and police and such is a really stupid idea, and are mostly focused on the important issues. Then somehow the guys who want to privatize the army and focus on the federal reserve system 99% of the time get in the spotlight and take hold of the party leadership (which is why the party has no chance in hell right now).

    Hopefully someday the sane members will take control and make the party more legitimate, but I'm not holding my breath.

    TubularLuggage on
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    The problem is that never has there been a more extreme case of crazy, very vocal minority than within the Libertarian party.

    Uh, conspiracy nutjobs, PETA, dominionists...

    Various nutcase groups from the 60s and 70s...

    Loren Michael on
    2ezikn6.jpg
  • Richard_DastardlyRichard_Dastardly Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Hopefully someday the sane members will take control and make the party more legitimate, but I'm not holding my breath.

    How the hell does the vocal minority seize control of the party? Are other factions of the Libertarian party not willing to cooperate and curtail the crazies?

    Richard_Dastardly on
    ಠ_ರೃ wrote: »
    cats are douches
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Hopefully someday the sane members will take control and make the party more legitimate, but I'm not holding my breath.

    How the hell does the vocal minority seize control of the party? Are other factions of the Libertarian party not willing to cooperate and curtail the crazies?

    Do you not understand how vocal minorities work?

    moniker on
  • Richard_DastardlyRichard_Dastardly Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    Hopefully someday the sane members will take control and make the party more legitimate, but I'm not holding my breath.

    How the hell does the vocal minority seize control of the party? Are other factions of the Libertarian party not willing to cooperate and curtail the crazies?

    Do you not understand how vocal minorities work?

    No. Unless we're discussing R&B.

    Richard_Dastardly on
    ಠ_ರೃ wrote: »
    cats are douches
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    Hopefully someday the sane members will take control and make the party more legitimate, but I'm not holding my breath.

    How the hell does the vocal minority seize control of the party? Are other factions of the Libertarian party not willing to cooperate and curtail the crazies?

    Do you not understand how vocal minorities work?

    No. Unless we're discussing R&B.

    Vocal minorities get disproportionate representation because of the simple fact that they express their views. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that. The 'silent majority' to steal from Nixon --oh ho ho-- are largely either apathetic, indifferent, or don't wield their power effectively when compared to the handful of jackasses, because they have other things to do than plot the abolition of the Federal Reserve.

    moniker on
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    The problem is that rather than try to take control of the party, the rational members mostly concede and go with it because they agree on some things, or get out and go elsewhere.

    TubularLuggage on
  • EchoEcho Where da waaagh at? Moderator mod
    edited November 2008
    Sheep wrote: »
    Socialism is one of the "steps" on the way to communism.

    Shit, time to move out of Sweden.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Yar wrote: »
    Everyone who identifies as being a libertarian is basically insane.
    This, what you said, is fucking insane. Seriously. There are very moderate Libertarians.
    Yes, these people, if they had some sense, would not identify as libertarians. Saying you're a libertarian means something rather more skewed away from centrist.

    Eh, Will Wilkinson and Brink Lindsey, while I have my disagreements with them in various areas, aren't crazy in the least.
    Buckeley

    Yar on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Yar wrote: »
    Yar wrote: »
    Everyone who identifies as being a libertarian is basically insane.
    This, what you said, is fucking insane. Seriously. There are very moderate Libertarians.
    Yes, these people, if they had some sense, would not identify as libertarians. Saying you're a libertarian means something rather more skewed away from centrist.

    Eh, Will Wilkinson and Brink Lindsey, while I have my disagreements with them in various areas, aren't crazy in the least.
    Buckeley

    The NRO founder or his kid? Because the former never really struck me as a libertarian, though he was certainly closer to that end of the spectrum than a centrist. Friedman would probably count, though.

    moniker on
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Yar wrote: »
    Yar wrote: »
    Everyone who identifies as being a libertarian is basically insane.
    This, what you said, is fucking insane. Seriously. There are very moderate Libertarians.
    Yes, these people, if they had some sense, would not identify as libertarians. Saying you're a libertarian means something rather more skewed away from centrist.

    Eh, Will Wilkinson and Brink Lindsey, while I have my disagreements with them in various areas, aren't crazy in the least.
    Buckeley

    Yay, Libertarians are crazy and stupid and want to do stupid things and they're big stupid heads blah blah blah.

    Like Liberals and Conservatives, there is no one Libertarian ideal. Some of us Libertarians are not against abortion. Some of us want pot legalized. Hell, some of us *gasp* aren't afraid of teh gheys!

    Shadowfire on
    steam_sig.png
    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar QA Tester -> Game Producer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Libertarians aren't blinked out over social issues, they're blinked at over economic issues.

    Incenjucar on
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Yeah, they aren't getting stick over the social issues. The economic issues are the batshit loco ones...

    oldmanken on
  • psychotixpsychotix __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2008
    oldmanken wrote: »
    Yeah, they aren't getting stick over the social issues. The economic issues are the batshit loco ones...

    This depends what libertarians you are talking about. Yeah, the "gov get the fuck out of my life and bedroom" types are great. But the "states rights" which masks racism in some cases are not.

    Since they don't really have any national power it's easy to only see one of the two sides, they don't have a platform to run on unlike the dems, pubs, but who's to say which side of their social issues group holds more sway.

    And their hero Ron Paul, other then being a crack pot on economic issues, does have a could of slight racism over his head for some publications he's associated with.

    psychotix on
  • WobblieWobblie Registered User
    edited November 2008
    psychotix wrote: »
    oldmanken wrote: »
    Yeah, they aren't getting stick over the social issues. The economic issues are the batshit loco ones...

    This depends what libertarians you are talking about. Yeah, the "gov get the fuck out of my life and bedroom" types are great. But the "states rights" which masks racism in some cases are not.

    Since they don't really have any national power it's easy to only see one of the two sides, they don't have a platform to run on unlike the dems, pubs, but who's to say which side of their social issues group holds more sway.

    And their hero Ron Paul, other then being a crack pot on economic issues, does have a could of slight racism over his head for some publications he's associated with.

    You're just picking the social part over the economic part, though. That's all they were saying: no one's bothered by their social views (unless they are, like you said, masks for racism), just by their economics.

    Wobblie on
    siggyem2.jpg
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    The NRO founder or his kid? Because the former never really struck me as a libertarian, though he was certainly closer to that end of the spectrum than a centrist. Friedman would probably count, though.

    Friedman is pretty radical; he thinks the government's job begins and ends with the military and enforcement of contracts. We just think he's not crazy because he has a Nobel and wears nice suits.

    Hachface on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Hachface wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    The NRO founder or his kid? Because the former never really struck me as a libertarian, though he was certainly closer to that end of the spectrum than a centrist. Friedman would probably count, though.

    Friedman is pretty radical; he thinks the government's job begins and ends with the military and enforcement of contracts. We just think he's not crazy because he has a Nobel and wears nice suits.

    He proposed a 'negative income tax' to replace entitlement programs and welfare rather than just abolishing the whole damn thing and refusing to also subsidize bootstraps. It's also an idea that has some merit. That puts him a hell of a lot closer to sanity than any libertarians I've read about or seen. Even if he wanted to get rid of OSHA et. al. and return to right of contract.

    moniker on
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Well the one libertarian radio show I've listened too, Free Talk Live, one of the hosts seems to be almost entirely reasonable on everything. The other guy is a borderline anarchist who's one step away from advocating you get your gun and shoot as many police and other government employees as possible, because the revolution is on!

    An area where I like Libertarians over Democrats: since everyone sees them as crazy they have no problem being honest about just about every issue that is typically taboo. Drugs, traffic laws, piracy (I genuinely believe the Libertarian idea that the US Government being used as a cudgel by various media companies has done more to strengthen piracy and damage the profitability of the companies in question, as it gives them no market incentive to develop a better method or pricing scheme for distributing their product), stuff like that.

    I rarely hear mention about foreign policy issues like how Iran really is no credible threat to the United States, etc, etc. Libertarians will come right out with it.

    I wish we could take the part of the Libertarian party that has merit and copy paste it to the rest of the politicians while discarding the crazy part

    override367 on
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I wish we could take the part of the Libertarian party that has merit and copy paste it to the rest of the politicians while discarding the crazy part

    I wish we could do that for every political party.

    Daedalus on
  • ZimmydoomZimmydoom Registered User
    edited November 2008
    Echo wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »
    Socialism is one of the "steps" on the way to communism.

    Shit, time to move out of Sweden.

    As I understand it Sweden has taken a hard right turn in terms of its social agenda over the last 20-odd years, especially in terms of drug laws. So I guess in that sense they are exactly like the Communists.

    But seriously the social/education programs in Sweden are probably the best thing going. Take "big government" out of the Scandinavian countries and you've basically got Alaska sans moose. All meth, no sunlight!

    Zimmydoom on
    Better-than-birthday-sig!
    Gim wrote: »
    Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
    Flew away in a balloon
    Had sex with polar bears
    While sitting in a reclining chair
    Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
    Running around and clawing eyelids
    Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
  • CervetusCervetus Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Zimmydoom wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    Sheep wrote: »
    Socialism is one of the "steps" on the way to communism.

    Shit, time to move out of Sweden.

    As I understand it Sweden has taken a hard right turn in terms of its social agenda over the last 20-odd years, especially in terms of drug laws. So I guess in that sense they are exactly like the Communists.

    But seriously the social/education programs in Sweden are probably the best thing going. Take "big government" out of the Scandinavian countries and you've basically got Alaska sans moose. All meth, no sunlight!

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Sarah Palin would have currency in Sweden with or without "big government."

    Cervetus on
    The libertarian response to anything is, "Sure, that works fine in practice, but it doesn't fly in theory."
  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Daedalus wrote: »
    I wish we could take the part of the Libertarian party that has merit and copy paste it to the rest of the politicians while discarding the crazy part

    I wish we could do that for every political party.

    Exactly. There was a thread a while ago about the GOP and we all said the same thing, keep the parts we like and get rid of everything else. Split up the party between the fiscal conservatives and social conservatives. Too bad that's not how you win elections.

    Smurph on
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I wish we could take the part of the Libertarian party that has merit and copy paste it to the rest of the politicians while discarding the crazy part

    As a sane Libertarian, I couldn't agree more.

    TubularLuggage on
  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ElJeffe leads the party ya'll propose, and I am secretary.

    Organichu on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Organichu wrote: »
    ElJeffe leads the party ya'll propose, and I am secretary.

    Can I be an elder statesman? All sittin' around doin' nothing, but looking important.

    moniker on
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    I believe that all parties should only hold those positions I agree with.

    Scalfin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • WobblieWobblie Registered User
    edited November 2008
    Scalfin wrote: »
    I believe that all parties should only hold those positions I agree with.

    It's kinda justified when it comes to their social views. I mean, we could have legitimate debates over economics, but when was the last time you heard a totally convincing argument against gay marriage? Sometimes the fascists need to just shut the fuck up.

    Wobblie on
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