That's my only problem with FFIX... that you let two incredibly young people join you in the fight against countless vicious monsters.
Yes, but they're young and powerful. In both cases Zidane doesn't want to bring them with and then realizes that they can cast black magic/summon eidolons and changes his mind.
Not that I agree with DoctorGateux (I mean, this is a work of fiction, and hell FF has always has child cast members), but wouldn't this basically justify child soldiers in your mind?
A 14-year-old skilled with a machine gun is still a 14-year-old.
I....I think the situation was a little different. o_O
Even so, it's still a bit silly that anyone could just tip those statues over, and suddenly it's the end of the world. Even the crystals took time for the earth to start breaking down.
But I always found it a bit ironic how
it was revealed that Kefka wasn't using the statue's power correctly, and was probably only acquiring a fraction of their true power. If he wasn't looney, maybe he would have achieved true godhood.
EDIT: Green haired Terra owns Blonde haired Terra any day of the week.
It's funny, because if you look at each FF title, there's always something obvious for fans of primarily the previous title to hate. I don't recall (nor was a member of any internet discussions) how people felt about FFVI (or 3 at the time) after FFIV.
But ever since then, FFVII sucked because it was 3D and ugly, or because they hated the protagonist (who got more in-depth development than any previous FF character, I would argue), or the materia system making everyone potentially identical. FFVIII sucked because everyone hated Squall, and the draw system sucked, and none of the villains were as cool as Sephiroth. FFIX sucked because what is this kiddie fantasy chibi bullshit and why did they ruin the card game and oh god the combat is slow. FFX sucked because awkward voice acting and where's my ATB and oh no new composers and fucking minigames. FFXII sucked because it played itself and there wasn't enough story.
Am I forgetting anything?
It always baffles me how many people are fans of this series who pick a random (seemingly arbitrary) game in the series as "their" game, and then proceed to hate every successive title seemingly for reasons that belong in a Zero Punctuation review, rather than legitimate complaints about the overall game (which I always have the gut feeling many simply never play)
A lot of people have made similar observations in this thread. I said it earlier and I'll say it again; every single game in the Final Fantasy series and the entire series as a whole is incredibly polarizing, it's all extremely love or hate. I wonder why that is.
That's my only problem with FFIX... that you let two incredibly young people join you in the fight against countless vicious monsters.
Yes, but they're young and powerful. In both cases Zidane doesn't want to bring them with and then realizes that they can cast black magic/summon eidolons and changes his mind.
Not that I agree with DoctorGateux (I mean, this is a work of fiction, and hell FF has always has child cast members), but wouldn't this basically justify child soldiers in your mind?
A 14-year-old skilled with a machine gun is still a 14-year-old.
I didn't mean it in complete seriousness, but I mean Eiko isn't 14, she's SIX.
I've played all or part of every FF (except for XI and spinoffs like X-2) and I agree that each game is incredibly polarizing. My first FF was VII, after which I played VI, and I liked both.
I have all the usual issues with VIII, so there's no surprise there. The only other FF I actively dislike is IV. I don't like the characters or the plot, and while you may argue gameplay is important it doesn't bring another thing to the table that V and VI to do better and their stories/characters don't anger much as much (well, except for VIII). I think if I played it at the time, I might like it better now, but playing after the later entries in the series it just doesn't hold up as well as some of the games before (which can lean on not really attempting to have much of a plot in the first place) and the games after.
Back on the original topic, all I have to say about green-haired Terra and the FFVI boss fight music is hell yes. Shame they couldn't pull out the FFVI victory fanfare, but ah well.
Most criticism of any ff game, even my beloved 9, I can get, at least on some base level. But this? Or calling vivi a cunt?
Also, Vivi represents a part of a larger idea of fiction that I particularly hate: the question of whether something created, like a robot, can be truly "alive" and treated as such. Short answer: No. Stop making fiction about it.
Oh, so you don't actually dislike his character, you just have an irrational grudge. Ok.
SageinaRage on
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
It's funny, because if you look at each FF title, there's always something obvious for fans of primarily the previous title to hate. I don't recall (nor was a member of any internet discussions) how people felt about FFVI (or 3 at the time) after FFIV.
But ever since then, FFVII sucked because it was 3D and ugly, or because they hated the protagonist (who got more in-depth development than any previous FF character, I would argue), or the materia system making everyone potentially identical. FFVIII sucked because everyone hated Squall, and the draw system sucked, and none of the villains were as cool as Sephiroth. FFIX sucked because what is this kiddie fantasy chibi bullshit and why did they ruin the card game and oh god the combat is slow. FFX sucked because awkward voice acting and where's my ATB and oh no new composers and fucking minigames. FFXII sucked because it played itself and there wasn't enough story.
Am I forgetting anything?
It always baffles me how many people are fans of this series who pick a random (seemingly arbitrary) game in the series as "their" game, and then proceed to hate every successive title seemingly for reasons that belong in a Zero Punctuation review, rather than legitimate complaints about the overall game (which I always have the gut feeling many simply never play)
Generally, you are correct. As far as my opinion goes, I have enjoyed every Final Fantasy game to various degrees up until the PS2. FFX was the first game in the series I really disliked, even to the point I couldn't bring myself to finish it. The Gameplay was ok, but I didn't care for the story or the characters. I'm not into MMO's, so XI wasn't my cup of tea, and XII just bored me...although I did like the battle system changes they made.
I have hope for XIII though, since it just looks awesome.
V13's trailer makes me want it so bad. I wasn't interested before, but now...holy shit.
And since this is a general FF thread, I'll just say that, with the glaring exception of Final Fantasy IX, I've been satisfied with every main FF game I've played (which is all except FFIII), and even some of the offshoots (Crisis Core, FF Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon).
My favorite will always be FFVII, and I will eternally hope for the FFVII remake that may never happen. However, I enjoy the world of FFX the most. And the art style of FFX still gets me to this day, I love the aquatic feel.
If you don't mind me asking, why didn't you like IX?
I didn't really care about the story, as it became a mad rush from town to town right after said town had been destroyed. Godawful character design, and it seems like they went out of the way to make me hate every single character in the process. Zidane is a prick. Steiner has a one-track mind on protecting the Princess. The Princess herself is kind of interesting at first, I suppose, though once she finds out about her origins nothing really comes of it. Vivi is a whiny little cunt and even when he "toughens up" later on I still found him unbearable. Eiko, Amarant, and especially fucking Quina who joins your party simply to eat; I just don't see how anyone can find these characters likable.
The graphics were a downgrade from VIII. Yes, I get what they were going for with the art style. But if that's what they were really going for, they should have done the game in 2D because as it is the deformed characters simply don't look right. I think this is more of a hardware problem than anything, as FFXI and XII both have super-deformed characters that at least look decent.
The battle system, even at the highest speed setting, was atrociously slow, and the random battles occurred more than ever (the Ice Cavern and a few other locales still give me Vietnam-style flashbacks, and that's with avoiding the wind flurries).
Tetra Master is a joke.
That's not to say the game was a total waste. There were a lot of little things I liked about. The Ability system was fucking excellent. The ability to use Tents in battles was welcome (though it doesn't really make sense), and Mognet was a cool little way of saving your game. Chocobo Hot and Cold is one of the best FF minigames yet. The soundtrack is quite stellar. And while I don't like the art style as rendered in-game, all of the CG cutscenes are mesmerizing.
EDIT: Also there is a fucking rat dance ritual, that not only hurt my brain, but became completely useless in the context of the story as it did no fucking good whatsoever.
Internet Debate Time!
The story is a mad rush early on, but that's what gives it the early pace every FF has. In FF7, the pace is caused by the player knowing from early on the next 'bombing mission' is just around the corner - and then on the mission, everything is urgent. Then the hideout's under attack. Then you're escaping Shinra themselves. And then it finally slows, only to speed up again after lots of exposition. FF8 has the same thing - it takes a while to get going, but after the Fire Cave it's a rollercoaster going down until the assassination.
FF9 is the same. The game starts off quite slow with the escape, and things are quite leisurely throughout there, and even in the forest. Once you reach Dali, though (with the best town music in an FF ever except perhaps FF1's town theme) everything gets quite fast paced and it's a mad rush to Lindblum. There it slows again, and there's some fun stuff with the festival of the hunt, and then it goes crazy again as war is declared.
From there, yeah, it's fucking nuts for the entire of disc 2. But god damn, I love that section of the game. You're watching a superpower decimate everywhere you visit for no good reason, loads of people die, and for the first time since FF6, you really, really feel like you're up against impossible odds. The game always puts characters you like and beautiful loactions in, slows long enough so that you can begin to love them and then it rips them apart in the most horrific way it can manage. And man, who doesn't love the sight of the at-the-time villain summoning Odin and destroying an entire city, basically genociding a race in the process?
This is also the reason I think Kuja is one of the more interesting FF bad guys, too. He stays in the shadows for pretty much two entire discs, manipulating events in the background. He preys on a weak queen's fears - she's missing her late king, she's scared she can't rule effectively - and he provides the weapons and uses that to push her into war with every other nation on the continent. By causing the nations to fight amongst themselves, by the time he initiates his plan on disc 2/3, there's nobody (but the party) left to stop him.
It's a crazy and slightly Kefka-esque plan, and it works. On the main contintent of FF9 there's four nations, and by the end of the game only one actually exists anymore, and that one is badly, badly hurting.
As far as the plot goes, even if you didn't like the nations at war segment, by the middle of disc 2 it's well and truly over, so it really isn't an issue. Once you hit the new continent it's a much more exploratory game, where you slowly plod through new sights and places like FF7 when you're chasing Sephiroth.
I really don't see how anyone can say the characters are particularly one dimensional though, with the exception of Quina who is meant to be. I'd say Amarant is underused and underdeveloped, but all the others are as well-rounded as any FF character has ever been, and a hell of a lot more so than many. FF9 has a lot of characters who appear one-sided - Pervy Zidane, Angry Steiner, but they all have much deeper layers underneath their thinking that is revealed as the game goes on and as the player watches ATEs. I won't really go into detail on this one, but I'll just say that there's a lot more to the characters than first meets the eye. FF9 just doesn't show what the lead is thinking through fucking thought bubbles like FF8 did. In general, it's a lot more subtle.
As for the graphics - the art style in FFIX is directed by the same guy who did Crystal Chronicles, My Life as a King, and FF3 and FF4 DS. Amano produced the original designs, then that dude chibi'd 'em, because Sakaguchi and the team wanted an art style that was reminiscent of 2D FF. It's exactly the same style. I think you're really confusing a graphics 'downgrade' for a simple dislike of the art style and how it was executed. FF9 is often noted as one of, if not the best looking PS1 games, and has aged a hell of a lot better than FF7 and 8, which both look like ass now. I don't think we can call this or this super deformed:
/
Especially when compared to this:
Battle System, well... yes, it's slow. Slow as hell. So's FF4 DS, actually, so god, don't play that if this put you off FF9, because that game is even slower. For me personally, four characters makes up for it. I'd rather have four characters in a slightly slower battle system than three in a fast one. That's just me, though. Tetra Master I'll pass on, it's a love it or hate it thing. It is more complex than Triple Triad, and those who get it love it, and those who don't despise it. You're only required to play three matches all game though, in quick succession, and all the opponents are using mindblowingly weak cards.
As far as I can tell the encounter isn't particularly high. It's back to a SNES level as opposed to a FF7/8 level, but both of those were too easy anyway, I think.
I dunno; I just fucking love FF9. I think it's the quintessential Final Fantasy, at least in the sense of what the series was up until 6 (and in a way 7.) The soundtrack is amazing, still the best Nobuo has produced (though Lost Odyssey gives it a fair run for it's money) and it's his favorite soundtrack from an FF, too. The game is Sakaguchi's favorite FF, also.. which has to be worth something. Right?
Generally, you are correct. As far as my opinion goes, I have enjoyed every Final Fantasy game to various degrees up until the PS2. FFX was the first game in the series I really disliked, even to the point I couldn't bring myself to finish it. The Gameplay was ok, but I didn't care for the story or the characters. I'm not into MMO's, so XI wasn't my cup of tea, and XII just bored me...although I did like the battle system changes they made.
I have hope for XIII though, since it just looks awesome.
I've gone through every FF and enjoyed every one, even the game boy ones, and pretty much every spinoff or remake since 2001 I've played, since that's when Square started sending me games that I usually wouldn't have bought. I can kind of agree with you. My enjoyment has gone 'down' ever since FF9. I enjoyed FFX less, but still enjoyed it. X2 was an improvement, mind, but then I enjoyed 12 even less than 10. I have high hopes for 13, but we'll see, because we haven't seen enough gameplay to remove the doubt from my mind yet. I do recommend Lost Odyssey to people who feel this way, though. It's the FF12 I wanted.
I used to fucking hate FF8, though. It used to be my most hated entry in the series, but recently replaying it I realized how well crafted the story is, even if it's up it's own ass. In FF8, unlike most FF's, everything isn't shoved in your face. A lot of key story points are left to the player's imagination, such as Rinoa being Julia's daughter, or Squall being Laguna/Raine's son. The movie Laguna was in on disc 3 influenced Seifer so much it pretty much made him who he was. Notice how when Laguna uses the gunblade against the dragon, he fights with Seifer's stance. Where do you think Seifer got the stance from? At the beginning of the game they say a movie called The Sorceresses Knight is on the waiting list, most obviously Seifer wants to watch it again.
It all kinda adds up from there. His "romantic dream" is to be like the dude in the movie - he even copied his weapon and fighting stance. That's also why he goes off with Edea; he sees a chance for his dream to come true and stuff. One of the many reasons he hates Squall is because he physically resembles the guy from the movie so much, and chose to use the same weapon without seeing the movie. But he would look like him - he's the actor's son!
FF8 is clever in that way. In other places, not so clever.
That's my only problem with FFIX... that you let two incredibly young people join you in the fight against countless vicious monsters.
Yes, but they're young and powerful. In both cases Zidane doesn't want to bring them with and then realizes that they can cast black magic/summon eidolons and changes his mind.
Not that I agree with DoctorGateux (I mean, this is a work of fiction, and hell FF has always has child cast members), but wouldn't this basically justify child soldiers in your mind?
A 14-year-old skilled with a machine gun is still a 14-year-old.
I didn't mean it in complete seriousness, but I mean Eiko isn't 14, she's SIX.
To be fair, she's a six year old orphan who forces herself on the party. Zidane accepts Vivi because he's a powerful motherfucker - Eiko just forces herself there. They try to make her stay in Madain Sari, but she won't because she's all alone, and then once she's in she refuses to leave even though they try to offload her in Lindblum/Alexandria. She sort of proves herself too during the whole Alexandria-destroying sequence, too.
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
edited December 2008
I loved FFIX, in fact Vivi is one of my favorite characters created in the series as a whole. His story was just tragic and heartbreaking.
My favorite FF post PS era though, believe it or not is FFVIII. I just loved the characters and romance laden story. But my all time favorite FF will probably always be IV. Cecil had one of the best character redemption story ever.
Goddamnit, APZonerunner. Many years ago I played this game with a fierce obsession. I got to what I think was the final dungeon before I snapped or lost interest or something. I can't remember, I was a teenager back then.
Anyway, having gotten through so much of the game, I had just decided that having to replay it now would be too much. But damn if your description of the game didn't make me fiercely nostalgic.
Final Fantasy 9 was my favorite Final Fantasy. As you said, I feel it is the "quintessential Final Fantasy" and it's a shame I never beat it. I guess it may be time to fix that soon.
Silas Brown on
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Generally, you are correct. As far as my opinion goes, I have enjoyed every Final Fantasy game to various degrees up until the PS2. FFX was the first game in the series I really disliked, even to the point I couldn't bring myself to finish it. The Gameplay was ok, but I didn't care for the story or the characters. I'm not into MMO's, so XI wasn't my cup of tea, and XII just bored me...although I did like the battle system changes they made.
I have hope for XIII though, since it just looks awesome.
I've gone through every FF and enjoyed every one, even the game boy ones, and pretty much every spinoff or remake since 2001 I've played, since that's when Square started sending me games that I usually wouldn't have bought. I can kind of agree with you. My enjoyment has gone 'down' ever since FF9. I enjoyed FFX less, but still enjoyed it. X2 was an improvement, mind, but then I enjoyed 12 even less than 10. I have high hopes for 13, but we'll see, because we haven't seen enough gameplay to remove the doubt from my mind yet. I do recommend Lost Odyssey to people who feel this way, though. It's the FF12 I wanted.
I used to fucking hate FF8, though. It used to be my most hated entry in the series, but recently replaying it I realized how well crafted the story is, even if it's up it's own ass. In FF8, unlike most FF's, everything isn't shoved in your face. A lot of key story points are left to the player's imagination, such as Rinoa being Julia's daughter, or Squall being Laguna/Raine's son. The movie Laguna was in on disc 3 influenced Seifer so much it pretty much made him who he was. Notice how when Laguna uses the gunblade against the dragon, he fights with Seifer's stance. Where do you think Seifer got the stance from? At the beginning of the game they say a movie called The Sorceresses Knight is on the waiting list, most obviously Seifer wants to watch it again.
It all kinda adds up from there. His "romantic dream" is to be like the dude in the movie - he even copied his weapon and fighting stance. That's also why he goes off with Edea; he sees a chance for his dream to come true and stuff. One of the many reasons he hates Squall is because he physically resembles the guy from the movie so much, and chose to use the same weapon without seeing the movie. But he would look like him - he's the actor's son!
FF8 is clever in that way. In other places, not so clever.
Well said, the story is one of the reasons it is my favorite of the PS era FF games. The back story with Laguna was fantastic, and the ending brought tears to my eyes when he visited Raine's grave, and thought back to when he proposed to her.
The story is just fantastic and well written.
Especially when you see how Seifer isn't actually a bad guy, he just wants to be like his hero.
zllehsHiding in a box, waiting to strike.Registered Userregular
edited December 2008
psst.... hey guys.... have you seen this scan of the FFXIII battle system????
it looks like the one from FFX... where you just chosse the enemy to attact through tabs at the bottom...
i loved the FFX battle system.... i hope FFXIII is turn-based combat too...
zllehs on
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SirUltimosDon't talk, Rusty. Just paint.Registered Userregular
Like I said, IX really is a love or hate FF I think. Your reasons are perfectly good and many people share the same views on it.
To be fair, all the FF's are pretty love hate. It's extremely rare to find someone who has a middle of the road opinion on any of the games. They can usually tell you exactly why it's the best game to ever be made or why it's shit. Shit from a butt.
Like I said, IX really is a love or hate FF I think. Your reasons are perfectly good and many people share the same views on it.
To be fair, all the FF's are pretty love hate. It's extremely rare to find someone who has a middle of the road opinion on any of the games. They can usually tell you exactly why it's the best game to ever be made or why it's shit. Shit from a butt.
At least we can all agree that Mystic Quest was good, right?
Right?
Silas Brown on
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SirUltimosDon't talk, Rusty. Just paint.Registered Userregular
Like I said, IX really is a love or hate FF I think. Your reasons are perfectly good and many people share the same views on it.
To be fair, all the FF's are pretty love hate. It's extremely rare to find someone who has a middle of the road opinion on any of the games. They can usually tell you exactly why it's the best game to ever be made or why it's shit. Shit from a butt.
At least we can all agree that Mystic Quest was good, right?
Like I said, IX really is a love or hate FF I think. Your reasons are perfectly good and many people share the same views on it.
To be fair, all the FF's are pretty love hate. It's extremely rare to find someone who has a middle of the road opinion on any of the games. They can usually tell you exactly why it's the best game to ever be made or why it's shit. Shit from a butt.
At least we can all agree that Mystic Quest was good, right?
Right?
I thought that goes without saying.
Any game that lets you cast Cure on the Final Boss for 32,000 (thats not a typo) Damage is an automatic AAA title.
I just realised I haven't heard the FF victory theme in ages. (Last played FF was XII, and that didn't use the theme very often)
I have it as my mobile phone ringtone! XD
That's funny, I have the ridiculously badass Giant of Babel theme (Within the Giant?) from FFIV as a ringtone. That bassline rules.
Shit, I'm getting nostalgic for FF music now. My first Final Fantasy was the original in the US. Then FF"II" came out, and my god. I remember turning it on for the first time and just basking in the glory of the crystal theme. Cross-series memories, Secret of Mana (US SNES version) was G O D L Y, as was Chrono Trigger. But unfortunately, the music in FF has gone downhill, starting with VII. There were definitely great pieces of music in every one since then, but nothing has ever managed to capture the beauty of IV for me. Even VI had some weak parts to it.
Stylistically, speaking about this "you got your realism in my fantasy," I think that X and XII are the most "workable" worlds that they've created. With the exception of Blitz Ball, that's just silly and weird. But as far as worlds that you could see truly existing, XII is probably the best of the bunch. I'm all for high fantasy concepts, like the world of VIII, but it's not enough to just say "WEEP AT THE BEAUTY OF THIS WORLD WE HAVE CREATED FOR YOU!" You need to populate it realistically for that world. Having a random jungle full of T-Rexes inside of a big floating saucer is kinda lame.
Now I can't wait to get my mom's PS2 from her over the weekend, I really need to get my FF on again. I haven't played XII since I beat it in '06.
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest has the best final fantasy music bar none.
Freakinchair on
I'd construct a situation such that everyone died at the exact same moment so that we could attack whatever afterlife there happens to be en masse and so take it over and create a perfect unending afterlife existence. Also, everyone who wanted one would have an afterlife pony.
FFXII's *edit* world *edit* works because it's full of win. Ok seriously, Ivalice is very fleshed out. There's TONS of backstory in the Encyclopedia. It helps that the streets in the towns are literally packed with people going about their day to day activities. It just feels alive compared to say...Narshe.
FFXII works because it's full of win. Ok seriously, Ivalice is very fleshed out. There's TONS of backstory in the Encyclopedia. It helps that the streets are literally packed with people going about their day to day activies. It just feels alive compared to say...Narshe.
If I ever replay FFXII, it'll be because of the Encyclopedia (and because Ultima destroyed me so badly I ran out of Megalixers after I killed her). If Square could actually write a plot without catastrophically fucking it up halfway through, that game could've been one of the greats.
psst.... hey guys.... have you seen this scan of the FFXIII battle system????
it looks like the one from FFX... where you just chosse the enemy to attact through tabs at the bottom...
i loved the FFX battle system.... i hope FFXIII is turn-based combat too...
So fucking excited. FFX's battle system was just so streamlined and felt perfect.
I still haven't played XII. All the negative I keep hearing about it makes want to spend my time playing something else.
It's a lot like an MMO. There's about 10 hours of awesome, surrounded by a minimum of 40 hours of mindless grinding.
Since I have fellow S-E afficionados all rounded up into the same thread, I thought I'd ask a question. When Squall gets fucking impaled at the end of disc 1, why does he wake up just fine? I remember that really sticking in my craw at the time.
I still haven't played XII. All the negative I keep hearing about it makes want to spend my time playing something else.
It's a lot like an MMO. There's about 10 hours of awesome, surrounded by a minimum of 40 hours of mindless grinding.
Since I have fellow S-E afficionados all rounded up into the same thread, I thought I'd ask a question. When Squall gets fucking impaled at the end of disc 1, why does he wake up just fine? I remember that really sticking in my craw at the time.
I still haven't played XII. All the negative I keep hearing about it makes want to spend my time playing something else.
It's a lot like an MMO. There's about 10 hours of awesome, surrounded by a minimum of 40 hours of mindless grinding.
Since I have fellow S-E afficionados all rounded up into the same thread, I thought I'd ask a question. When Squall gets fucking impaled at the end of disc 1, why does he wake up just fine? I remember that really sticking in my craw at the time.
Curaga.
The Biggest thing is the point of impact and how it misleads.
When you first see it hit him, from the side, it looks like it hits him in the dead center of his Chest. As in his heart is fucking gone. It also looks like its about 12 inches in diameter.
When it turns to the front of him, you see a much smaller icicle thats about 4 inches in diameter and its more in his armpit away from any vital organ. Maybe a half destroyed rib cage.
If I recall, there was a big duration of time between the end of Disc 1 and beginning of Disc 2. I wanna say 3 months, but I might be talking out my ass.
Yeah I tried to play through XII twice and it just didn't stick to me. I didn't really get into the battle system. I spent about 28 hours on my first run then gave up. Then I spent another 12 (new game because this was like a year later) and gave up.
I'm really glad to hear that FFXIII will have FFX's battle system. I would have SHIT a brick if they went to FFXII's system.
"The concept for Final Fantasy XIII's battle system is to maintain the strategic nature of command-based battles. The system stemmed from a desire to create battles similar to those found in Final Fantasy VII Advent Children.[2] Like those in Final Fantasy XII, battle sequences are integrated into the world environment.[3] The Active Time Battle (ATB) system will return, but is expected to work differently from its predecessors."
Sounds like fans of XII and ATB are both in for a treat.
Posts
I....I think the situation was a little different. o_O
I'm rather fond of this remix of that theme.
But ever since then, FFVII sucked because it was 3D and ugly, or because they hated the protagonist (who got more in-depth development than any previous FF character, I would argue), or the materia system making everyone potentially identical. FFVIII sucked because everyone hated Squall, and the draw system sucked, and none of the villains were as cool as Sephiroth. FFIX sucked because what is this kiddie fantasy chibi bullshit and why did they ruin the card game and oh god the combat is slow. FFX sucked because awkward voice acting and where's my ATB and oh no new composers and fucking minigames. FFXII sucked because it played itself and there wasn't enough story.
Am I forgetting anything?
It always baffles me how many people are fans of this series who pick a random (seemingly arbitrary) game in the series as "their" game, and then proceed to hate every successive title seemingly for reasons that belong in a Zero Punctuation review, rather than legitimate complaints about the overall game (which I always have the gut feeling many simply never play)
I didn't mean it in complete seriousness, but I mean Eiko isn't 14, she's SIX.
I have all the usual issues with VIII, so there's no surprise there. The only other FF I actively dislike is IV. I don't like the characters or the plot, and while you may argue gameplay is important it doesn't bring another thing to the table that V and VI to do better and their stories/characters don't anger much as much (well, except for VIII). I think if I played it at the time, I might like it better now, but playing after the later entries in the series it just doesn't hold up as well as some of the games before (which can lean on not really attempting to have much of a plot in the first place) and the games after.
Back on the original topic, all I have to say about green-haired Terra and the FFVI boss fight music is hell yes. Shame they couldn't pull out the FFVI victory fanfare, but ah well.
As for the run-on sentences, I'm tired.
SE++ Forum Battle Archive
Most criticism of any ff game, even my beloved 9, I can get, at least on some base level. But this? Or calling vivi a cunt?
Oh, so you don't actually dislike his character, you just have an irrational grudge. Ok.
Generally, you are correct. As far as my opinion goes, I have enjoyed every Final Fantasy game to various degrees up until the PS2. FFX was the first game in the series I really disliked, even to the point I couldn't bring myself to finish it. The Gameplay was ok, but I didn't care for the story or the characters. I'm not into MMO's, so XI wasn't my cup of tea, and XII just bored me...although I did like the battle system changes they made.
I have hope for XIII though, since it just looks awesome.
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I have it as my mobile phone ringtone! XD
Internet Debate Time!
The story is a mad rush early on, but that's what gives it the early pace every FF has. In FF7, the pace is caused by the player knowing from early on the next 'bombing mission' is just around the corner - and then on the mission, everything is urgent. Then the hideout's under attack. Then you're escaping Shinra themselves. And then it finally slows, only to speed up again after lots of exposition. FF8 has the same thing - it takes a while to get going, but after the Fire Cave it's a rollercoaster going down until the assassination.
FF9 is the same. The game starts off quite slow with the escape, and things are quite leisurely throughout there, and even in the forest. Once you reach Dali, though (with the best town music in an FF ever except perhaps FF1's town theme) everything gets quite fast paced and it's a mad rush to Lindblum. There it slows again, and there's some fun stuff with the festival of the hunt, and then it goes crazy again as war is declared.
From there, yeah, it's fucking nuts for the entire of disc 2. But god damn, I love that section of the game. You're watching a superpower decimate everywhere you visit for no good reason, loads of people die, and for the first time since FF6, you really, really feel like you're up against impossible odds. The game always puts characters you like and beautiful loactions in, slows long enough so that you can begin to love them and then it rips them apart in the most horrific way it can manage. And man, who doesn't love the sight of the at-the-time villain summoning Odin and destroying an entire city, basically genociding a race in the process?
This is also the reason I think Kuja is one of the more interesting FF bad guys, too. He stays in the shadows for pretty much two entire discs, manipulating events in the background. He preys on a weak queen's fears - she's missing her late king, she's scared she can't rule effectively - and he provides the weapons and uses that to push her into war with every other nation on the continent. By causing the nations to fight amongst themselves, by the time he initiates his plan on disc 2/3, there's nobody (but the party) left to stop him.
It's a crazy and slightly Kefka-esque plan, and it works. On the main contintent of FF9 there's four nations, and by the end of the game only one actually exists anymore, and that one is badly, badly hurting.
As far as the plot goes, even if you didn't like the nations at war segment, by the middle of disc 2 it's well and truly over, so it really isn't an issue. Once you hit the new continent it's a much more exploratory game, where you slowly plod through new sights and places like FF7 when you're chasing Sephiroth.
I really don't see how anyone can say the characters are particularly one dimensional though, with the exception of Quina who is meant to be. I'd say Amarant is underused and underdeveloped, but all the others are as well-rounded as any FF character has ever been, and a hell of a lot more so than many. FF9 has a lot of characters who appear one-sided - Pervy Zidane, Angry Steiner, but they all have much deeper layers underneath their thinking that is revealed as the game goes on and as the player watches ATEs. I won't really go into detail on this one, but I'll just say that there's a lot more to the characters than first meets the eye. FF9 just doesn't show what the lead is thinking through fucking thought bubbles like FF8 did. In general, it's a lot more subtle.
As for the graphics - the art style in FFIX is directed by the same guy who did Crystal Chronicles, My Life as a King, and FF3 and FF4 DS. Amano produced the original designs, then that dude chibi'd 'em, because Sakaguchi and the team wanted an art style that was reminiscent of 2D FF. It's exactly the same style. I think you're really confusing a graphics 'downgrade' for a simple dislike of the art style and how it was executed. FF9 is often noted as one of, if not the best looking PS1 games, and has aged a hell of a lot better than FF7 and 8, which both look like ass now. I don't think we can call this or this super deformed:
Especially when compared to this:
Battle System, well... yes, it's slow. Slow as hell. So's FF4 DS, actually, so god, don't play that if this put you off FF9, because that game is even slower. For me personally, four characters makes up for it. I'd rather have four characters in a slightly slower battle system than three in a fast one. That's just me, though. Tetra Master I'll pass on, it's a love it or hate it thing. It is more complex than Triple Triad, and those who get it love it, and those who don't despise it. You're only required to play three matches all game though, in quick succession, and all the opponents are using mindblowingly weak cards.
As far as I can tell the encounter isn't particularly high. It's back to a SNES level as opposed to a FF7/8 level, but both of those were too easy anyway, I think.
I dunno; I just fucking love FF9. I think it's the quintessential Final Fantasy, at least in the sense of what the series was up until 6 (and in a way 7.) The soundtrack is amazing, still the best Nobuo has produced (though Lost Odyssey gives it a fair run for it's money) and it's his favorite soundtrack from an FF, too. The game is Sakaguchi's favorite FF, also.. which has to be worth something. Right?
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I've gone through every FF and enjoyed every one, even the game boy ones, and pretty much every spinoff or remake since 2001 I've played, since that's when Square started sending me games that I usually wouldn't have bought. I can kind of agree with you. My enjoyment has gone 'down' ever since FF9. I enjoyed FFX less, but still enjoyed it. X2 was an improvement, mind, but then I enjoyed 12 even less than 10. I have high hopes for 13, but we'll see, because we haven't seen enough gameplay to remove the doubt from my mind yet. I do recommend Lost Odyssey to people who feel this way, though. It's the FF12 I wanted.
I used to fucking hate FF8, though. It used to be my most hated entry in the series, but recently replaying it I realized how well crafted the story is, even if it's up it's own ass. In FF8, unlike most FF's, everything isn't shoved in your face. A lot of key story points are left to the player's imagination, such as Rinoa being Julia's daughter, or Squall being Laguna/Raine's son. The movie Laguna was in on disc 3 influenced Seifer so much it pretty much made him who he was. Notice how when Laguna uses the gunblade against the dragon, he fights with Seifer's stance. Where do you think Seifer got the stance from? At the beginning of the game they say a movie called The Sorceresses Knight is on the waiting list, most obviously Seifer wants to watch it again.
It all kinda adds up from there. His "romantic dream" is to be like the dude in the movie - he even copied his weapon and fighting stance. That's also why he goes off with Edea; he sees a chance for his dream to come true and stuff. One of the many reasons he hates Squall is because he physically resembles the guy from the movie so much, and chose to use the same weapon without seeing the movie. But he would look like him - he's the actor's son!
FF8 is clever in that way. In other places, not so clever.
To be fair, she's a six year old orphan who forces herself on the party. Zidane accepts Vivi because he's a powerful motherfucker - Eiko just forces herself there. They try to make her stay in Madain Sari, but she won't because she's all alone, and then once she's in she refuses to leave even though they try to offload her in Lindblum/Alexandria. She sort of proves herself too during the whole Alexandria-destroying sequence, too.
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My favorite FF post PS era though, believe it or not is FFVIII. I just loved the characters and romance laden story. But my all time favorite FF will probably always be IV. Cecil had one of the best character redemption story ever.
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Anyway, having gotten through so much of the game, I had just decided that having to replay it now would be too much. But damn if your description of the game didn't make me fiercely nostalgic.
Final Fantasy 9 was my favorite Final Fantasy. As you said, I feel it is the "quintessential Final Fantasy" and it's a shame I never beat it. I guess it may be time to fix that soon.
Well said, the story is one of the reasons it is my favorite of the PS era FF games. The back story with Laguna was fantastic, and the ending brought tears to my eyes when he visited Raine's grave, and thought back to when he proposed to her.
The story is just fantastic and well written.
Especially when you see how Seifer isn't actually a bad guy, he just wants to be like his hero.
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it looks like the one from FFX... where you just chosse the enemy to attact through tabs at the bottom...
i loved the FFX battle system.... i hope FFXIII is turn-based combat too...
To be fair, all the FF's are pretty love hate. It's extremely rare to find someone who has a middle of the road opinion on any of the games. They can usually tell you exactly why it's the best game to ever be made or why it's shit. Shit from a butt.
At least we can all agree that Mystic Quest was good, right?
Right?
I thought that goes without saying.
Any game that lets you cast Cure on the Final Boss for 32,000 (thats not a typo) Damage is an automatic AAA title.
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That's funny, I have the ridiculously badass Giant of Babel theme (Within the Giant?) from FFIV as a ringtone. That bassline rules.
Shit, I'm getting nostalgic for FF music now. My first Final Fantasy was the original in the US. Then FF"II" came out, and my god. I remember turning it on for the first time and just basking in the glory of the crystal theme. Cross-series memories, Secret of Mana (US SNES version) was G O D L Y, as was Chrono Trigger. But unfortunately, the music in FF has gone downhill, starting with VII. There were definitely great pieces of music in every one since then, but nothing has ever managed to capture the beauty of IV for me. Even VI had some weak parts to it.
Stylistically, speaking about this "you got your realism in my fantasy," I think that X and XII are the most "workable" worlds that they've created. With the exception of Blitz Ball, that's just silly and weird. But as far as worlds that you could see truly existing, XII is probably the best of the bunch. I'm all for high fantasy concepts, like the world of VIII, but it's not enough to just say "WEEP AT THE BEAUTY OF THIS WORLD WE HAVE CREATED FOR YOU!" You need to populate it realistically for that world. Having a random jungle full of T-Rexes inside of a big floating saucer is kinda lame.
Now I can't wait to get my mom's PS2 from her over the weekend, I really need to get my FF on again. I haven't played XII since I beat it in '06.
If I ever replay FFXII, it'll be because of the Encyclopedia (and because Ultima destroyed me so badly I ran out of Megalixers after I killed her). If Square could actually write a plot without catastrophically fucking it up halfway through, that game could've been one of the greats.
I don't hate it, I want to like it, but I just can't. I'm bored. I can't play through the game.
It's not like VIII, which I despise with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns, it's just like... 'why can't I like you? You seem really cool.'
On the topic of worlds, FFX's world was pretty sweet. Felt very unified, unlike previous FFs which were just mish-mashes of locations.
"Ok, here is the forest city, and the desert city, and the snow city..."
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
So fucking excited. FFX's battle system was just so streamlined and felt perfect.
It's a lot like an MMO. There's about 10 hours of awesome, surrounded by a minimum of 40 hours of mindless grinding.
Since I have fellow S-E afficionados all rounded up into the same thread, I thought I'd ask a question. When Squall gets fucking impaled at the end of disc 1, why does he wake up just fine? I remember that really sticking in my craw at the time.
Curaga.
I don't know if I'd go that far, but it did have some very good songs.
The Biggest thing is the point of impact and how it misleads.
When you first see it hit him, from the side, it looks like it hits him in the dead center of his Chest. As in his heart is fucking gone. It also looks like its about 12 inches in diameter.
When it turns to the front of him, you see a much smaller icicle thats about 4 inches in diameter and its more in his armpit away from any vital organ. Maybe a half destroyed rib cage.
If I recall, there was a big duration of time between the end of Disc 1 and beginning of Disc 2. I wanna say 3 months, but I might be talking out my ass.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
I'm really glad to hear that FFXIII will have FFX's battle system. I would have SHIT a brick if they went to FFXII's system.
Supposedly someone posted or mentioned a Screenshot of the battle system that looks like X's?
I dunno, I can't see shit.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
Sounds like fans of XII and ATB are both in for a treat.
The screenshots show menus overlaid on the screen during a battle. It could be anything.
edit: or someone could find actual info and post, much like Unbreakable just did. Thank you sir.
It sounds a lot like XII...
I'm-a go play XII today. Just to spite you.