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Breaking news: Mumbai attacked

2

Posts

  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I'm curious as to which Pakistani elements may be involved in these attacks. Obviously nothing has been proven thus far, but I will not be surprised if there is a connection.

    What's worrisome is potential responses. How does India react to this? How does the west?

    (Personal note: Luckily my friend who lives in India is nowhere near Mumbai, and other friends who were traveling through have recently left. You guys might want to keep an eye on Thailand as well, as the situation there has gotten worse. Three of my friends just started their vacations there, and are now stuck in country.)

    oldmanken on
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    oldmanken wrote: »
    I'm curious as to which Pakistani elements may be involved in these attacks. Obviously nothing has been proven thus far, but I will not be surprised if there is a connection.

    What's worrisome is potential responses. How does India react to this? How does the west?

    (Personal note: Luckily my friend who lives in India is nowhere near Mumbai, and other friends who were traveling through have recently left. You guys might want to keep an eye on Thailand as well, as the situation there has gotten worse. Three of my friends just started their vacations there, and are now stuck in country.)

    It appears the attackers are speaking a language that suggests they are Pakistani, and MSNBC is reporting that all of the ones that have been captured are Pakistani.

    Tomanta on
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Awesome... two nuclear powers about to get even more pissed off at each other.

    /me goes to hide.

    oldmanken on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Didn't we establish in another thread that Pakistan's nukes are under the control of a military that's very much against using them?

    MKR on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Shogun wrote: »
    My dad arrived in Mumbai just as the attacks were taking place. Thankfully he's just managed to get a flight to Delhi.

    My aunt is in India to see her swami.


    We lost contact with her two days ago.


    I have to admit I am rather worried.

    Shit I hope everythings ok

    nexuscrawler on
  • YallYall Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    What kind of impact will rising terrorist attacks in India have on their attractiveness as a candidate for outsourcing? I would think that more firms may be reluctant to do business as these things increase, which could fuck up their economy in a terrible way.

    Yall on
    My band: https://youtu.be/rw2ersccCsQ[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    Smurph wrote: »
    I read somewhere yesterday that the Indian army was deploying 6 companies to the area to fight these guys. That's as many as 1,200 troops. I'm wondering how many of these fuckers there really are if some of them are still at large and armed in the city.
    • To the military mind, the only acceptable level of force is overwhelming. You can always scale back if you need to, but woe be to you if you needed those six companies any only deployed four.
    • The hunt for remaining consirators is likely to be protracted. If you work your people in shifts you will see a lot less than 6 companies on the street at once.

    Just_Bri_Thanks on
    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Leitner wrote: »
    So last night I heard something about a British MEP having barricaded himself in a basement with the terrorists outside, what's come of that?

    There was a whole EU trade delegation there, seven MEPs. Looks like they all made it out and are at their respective embassies for now.

    japan on
  • [Tycho?][Tycho?] Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    You should read up on how Pakistan is basically fighting the Taliban at the door step to some of it's cities now.

    Yeah, its a full scale civil war with hundreds of thousands of people fleeing to Afghanistan because its safer there.

    If India blames the attacks on Pakistan then things could get pretty dicey here. Honestly, I doubt they will. Pakistan is holding on by a string right now, and the last thing India wants is all out chaos in its nuclear armed muslim neighbour.

    [Tycho?] on
    mvaYcgc.jpg
  • SamSam Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    apparently the mujehadeens are down to one injured man trying to play solid snake.

    Sam on
  • SamSam Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    [Tycho?] wrote: »
    You should read up on how Pakistan is basically fighting the Taliban at the door step to some of it's cities now.

    Yeah, its a full scale civil war with hundreds of thousands of people fleeing to Afghanistan because its safer there.

    If India blames the attacks on Pakistan then things could get pretty dicey here. Honestly, I doubt they will. Pakistan is holding on by a string right now, and the last thing India wants is all out chaos in its nuclear armed muslim neighbour.
    It is evident that the group which carried out these attacks, based outside the country, had come with the single-minded determination to create havoc in the commercial capital of the country.

    India will take up strongly with our neighbours that the use of their territory for launching attacks on us will not be tolerated and that there would be a cost if suitable measures are not taken by them.

    I'm pretty sure he's not talking about Nepal or Bangladesh.

    Sam on
  • corcorigancorcorigan Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Yall wrote: »
    What kind of impact will rising terrorist attacks in India have on their attractiveness as a candidate for outsourcing? I would think that more firms may be reluctant to do business as these things increase, which could fuck up their economy in a terrible way.

    There's not a rising level of terrorism (well, at any rate it wasn't terrorism-free before). This has just made the headlines because it involves Bombay and foreigners getting shot at.

    Usually it's just Maoists or someone killing hundreds of poor Indians in some small provincial city somewhere, and no one (Indian or foreign) cares.

    corcorigan on
    Ad Astra Per Aspera
  • SamSam Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    corcorigan wrote: »
    Yall wrote: »
    What kind of impact will rising terrorist attacks in India have on their attractiveness as a candidate for outsourcing? I would think that more firms may be reluctant to do business as these things increase, which could fuck up their economy in a terrible way.

    There's not a rising level of terrorism (well, at any rate it wasn't terrorism-free before). This has just made the headlines because it involves Bombay and foreigners getting shot at.

    Usually it's just Maoists or someone killing hundreds of poor Indians in some small provincial city somewhere, and no one (Indian or foreign) cares.

    India has seen a lot of riots and violence, not all of them caused by Pakistanis/Jihadists. When Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her Sikh bodyguard, people with Turbans were being burned alive in many cities including Delhi.

    But weirdly enough, for a country known for corruption and lack of efficiency, terrorism doesn't have that much of an impact on productivity. I was reading an article that talked about constant terrorist attacks failing to affect production in key industries.

    Unless terrorists start bombing call centers that value your call, not many people are going to care.

    Sam on
  • SalSal Damnedest Little Fellow Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    This is an interesting article on the matter, and why it was an assault instead of a bombing.

    Sal on
    xet8c.gif


  • ShogunShogun Hair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get along Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Shogun wrote: »
    My dad arrived in Mumbai just as the attacks were taking place. Thankfully he's just managed to get a flight to Delhi.

    My aunt is in India to see her swami.


    We lost contact with her two days ago.


    I have to admit I am rather worried.

    Shit I hope everythings ok

    Good news we just heard from her a little while ago. Turns out she flew in to Bangalore and is around 600 miles south east of Mumbai thankfully. Her travelling companion, an Indian doctor, was not quite so lucky. She flew directly into Mumbai two days ago. I've heard of bad timing, but just wow.

    Shogun on
  • DetharinDetharin Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Caught a bit of an interview with someone in the building. Said the "terrorists" let the people on his floor and the floor above his get rescued. It almost sounds like they were after something being specific. The details coming out seem almost like this was about more than the usual Pakistani shenanigans.

    Then again i might be paranoid.

    Detharin on
    If I was kidnapped, woke up in a lab, told they were going to replace my vocal cords with those of Tony Jay, and lock me in a sound booth until the day I die I would look those bastards right in the eye and say "Alright you sons of bitches lets do this. This one is for the children."
  • Toxin01Toxin01 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I hope this doesn't give the new administration an excuse to invade another country because the "terrorists hate us."

    Toxin01 on
    Aiden Baail: Level 1 Swordmage: 19 AC 14 Fort 15 Ref 13 Will (Curse Of The Black Pearls)
    GM: Rusty Chains (DH Ongoing)
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Obama's already said he'd attack terrorists in Pakistan, so.

    Scooter on
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Sam wrote: »
    apparently the mujehadeens are down to one injured man trying to play solid snake.

    I thought this was fitting considering your quote there..
    Splinter Cell Voice Actor Among Injured In Mumbai
    Michael Rudder's other credits include Jagged Alliance and Prince of Persia.
    By Kat Bailey, 11/28/2008


    The chaos in Mumbai, India is half a world away, but that hasn't stopped the violence from touching the world of gaming. Among the casualties is Michael Rudder, a Canadian voice actor with credits in games, movies and cartoons.
    CBC News is reporting that Rudder, whose credits include Splinter Cell, Jagged Alliance 2 and Prince of Persia: Warrior Within, was having dinner when his hotel came under attack. Rudder was hit by three bullets.

    According to Synchronicity Foundation vice president Bobbie Garvey, "Rudder was taken to the hospital. He did have surgery [that was] very successful. He was in intensive care for a little while, but he is very stable and he is healing at the moment."

    Rudder was in India with two dozen other people as part of a Synchonicity spiritual retreat. Best wishes to him and his family on a speedy recovery.

    Shadowfire on
    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • Toxin01Toxin01 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Scooter wrote: »
    Obama's already said he'd attack terrorists in Pakistan, so.

    Ah, shit.

    Toxin01 on
    Aiden Baail: Level 1 Swordmage: 19 AC 14 Fort 15 Ref 13 Will (Curse Of The Black Pearls)
    GM: Rusty Chains (DH Ongoing)
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Toxin01 wrote: »
    Scooter wrote: »
    Obama's already said he'd attack terrorists in Pakistan, so.

    Ah, shit.

    We're extremely unlikely to be invading India anytime soon. Nor are we going to invade Pakistan as long as they are an ally. The attacks over the border are simply ignoring the polite fiction that Pakistan actually has enough control in that area to claim sovereignty.

    Thomamelas on
  • corcorigancorcorigan Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Hmm so some of the attackers were British apparently.

    :|

    corcorigan on
    Ad Astra Per Aspera
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    corcorigan wrote: »
    Hmm so some of the attackers were British apparently.

    :|

    The BBC is reporting otherwise.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7754931.stm

    Thomamelas on
  • BogartBogart I Will Cure You Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2008
    There have been conflicting reports and statements from officials and various media. I'd wait until the dust has settled before believing anything you hear about the whos and whys of the attack.

    Bogart on
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I think, from the little I know of the situation in India, that it's important to avoid discussing these attacks in a vacuum.

    In 2002, Hindu mobs attacked and killed from 1,000 to 2,000 (largely defenseless) Muslims in the province of Gujarat. (Linku)

    This was itself retaliation for an earlier train station attack by Muslims in which about 60 Hindus were burned alive.

    Ignoring the pointless question of whether or not the Muslims "started it," 2,000 people is a lot of people. I really hope that a similar massacre doesn't happen again, in retaliation for the current attack—because it's not hard to see how such massacres can breed more Muslim attacks down the line.

    Qingu on
  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Qingu wrote: »
    I think, from the little I know of the situation in India, that it's important to avoid discussing these attacks in a vacuum.

    In 2002, Hindu mobs attacked and killed from 1,000 to 2,000 (largely defenseless) Muslims in the province of Gujarat. (Linku)

    This was itself retaliation for an earlier train station attack by Muslims in which about 60 Hindus were burned alive.

    Ignoring the pointless question of whether or not the Muslims "started it," 2,000 people is a lot of people. I really hope that a similar massacre doesn't happen again, in retaliation for the current attack—because it's not hard to see how such massacres can breed more Muslim attacks down the line.

    I think its very much the same as the Israeli/Palestinian issue in that at this point it doesn't really matter who started it, as the recriminations go on forever on both sides. All that matters is who ends it.

    Part of the problem, and I don't mean you specifically, is that events like this happen and each side sees it and then immediately attributes it to the previous actions of the other party. Since the other party was doing the exact same thing when they committed the very act being discussed, it just feeds on itself forever.

    Raynaga on
  • psychotixpsychotix __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2008
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    I think, from the little I know of the situation in India, that it's important to avoid discussing these attacks in a vacuum.

    In 2002, Hindu mobs attacked and killed from 1,000 to 2,000 (largely defenseless) Muslims in the province of Gujarat. (Linku)

    This was itself retaliation for an earlier train station attack by Muslims in which about 60 Hindus were burned alive.

    Ignoring the pointless question of whether or not the Muslims "started it," 2,000 people is a lot of people. I really hope that a similar massacre doesn't happen again, in retaliation for the current attack—because it's not hard to see how such massacres can breed more Muslim attacks down the line.

    I think its very much the same as the Israeli/Palestinian issue in that at this point it doesn't really matter who started it, as the recriminations go on forever on both sides. All that matters is who ends it.

    Part of the problem, and I don't mean you specifically, is that events like this happen and each side sees it and then immediately attributes it to the previous actions of the other party. Since the other party was doing the exact same thing when they committed the very act being discussed, it just feeds on itself forever.


    So nuke Kashmir and call it a day:?:

    psychotix on
  • YallYall Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    I think, from the little I know of the situation in India, that it's important to avoid discussing these attacks in a vacuum.

    In 2002, Hindu mobs attacked and killed from 1,000 to 2,000 (largely defenseless) Muslims in the province of Gujarat. (Linku)

    This was itself retaliation for an earlier train station attack by Muslims in which about 60 Hindus were burned alive.

    Ignoring the pointless question of whether or not the Muslims "started it," 2,000 people is a lot of people. I really hope that a similar massacre doesn't happen again, in retaliation for the current attack—because it's not hard to see how such massacres can breed more Muslim attacks down the line.

    I think its very much the same as the Israeli/Palestinian issue in that at this point it doesn't really matter who started it, as the recriminations go on forever on both sides. All that matters is who ends it.

    Part of the problem, and I don't mean you specifically, is that events like this happen and each side sees it and then immediately attributes it to the previous actions of the other party. Since the other party was doing the exact same thing when they committed the very act being discussed, it just feeds on itself forever.

    It absolutely matters who started it. The root cause of the issue is that Islam is pretty explicit in it's hatred for polytheists (re:Hindu's). If your belief system and culture are such that they pretty much instruct you to hate another group and you are unwilling to amend it, how in the world is the cycle expected to stop?

    Yall on
    My band: https://youtu.be/rw2ersccCsQ[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Yall wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    I think, from the little I know of the situation in India, that it's important to avoid discussing these attacks in a vacuum.

    In 2002, Hindu mobs attacked and killed from 1,000 to 2,000 (largely defenseless) Muslims in the province of Gujarat. (Linku)

    This was itself retaliation for an earlier train station attack by Muslims in which about 60 Hindus were burned alive.

    Ignoring the pointless question of whether or not the Muslims "started it," 2,000 people is a lot of people. I really hope that a similar massacre doesn't happen again, in retaliation for the current attack—because it's not hard to see how such massacres can breed more Muslim attacks down the line.

    I think its very much the same as the Israeli/Palestinian issue in that at this point it doesn't really matter who started it, as the recriminations go on forever on both sides. All that matters is who ends it.

    Part of the problem, and I don't mean you specifically, is that events like this happen and each side sees it and then immediately attributes it to the previous actions of the other party. Since the other party was doing the exact same thing when they committed the very act being discussed, it just feeds on itself forever.

    It absolutely matters who started it. The root cause of the issue is that Islam is pretty explicit in it's hatred for polytheists (re:Hindu's). If your belief system and culture are such that they pretty much instruct you to hate another group and you are unwilling to amend it, how in the world is the cycle expected to stop?
    ...So you have no idea about the history of Indian politics, but decide you know what's best anyways? Hint: MOST Muslims get along fine with people of other religions. It's the fanatics that do this shit.

    Also, you sound terribly prejudiced against Muslims, might want to tone that down a bit.

    Fencingsax on
    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Yall wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    I think, from the little I know of the situation in India, that it's important to avoid discussing these attacks in a vacuum.

    In 2002, Hindu mobs attacked and killed from 1,000 to 2,000 (largely defenseless) Muslims in the province of Gujarat. (Linku)

    This was itself retaliation for an earlier train station attack by Muslims in which about 60 Hindus were burned alive.

    Ignoring the pointless question of whether or not the Muslims "started it," 2,000 people is a lot of people. I really hope that a similar massacre doesn't happen again, in retaliation for the current attack—because it's not hard to see how such massacres can breed more Muslim attacks down the line.

    I think its very much the same as the Israeli/Palestinian issue in that at this point it doesn't really matter who started it, as the recriminations go on forever on both sides. All that matters is who ends it.

    Part of the problem, and I don't mean you specifically, is that events like this happen and each side sees it and then immediately attributes it to the previous actions of the other party. Since the other party was doing the exact same thing when they committed the very act being discussed, it just feeds on itself forever.

    It absolutely matters who started it. The root cause of the issue is that Islam is pretty explicit in it's hatred for polytheists (re:Hindu's). If your belief system and culture are such that they pretty much instruct you to hate another group and you are unwilling to amend it, how in the world is the cycle expected to stop?

    You do realize that there is a complicated history of violence in India that is a bit more like a three way fight? And that the root causes go back more then a few years?

    Thomamelas on
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Basically I think everyone should read this before they even think about commenting on who is to blame for this conflict.

    japan on
  • ZoolanderZoolander Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Seems to me Kashmir isn't really the issue. The tensions in India have existed looong before Kashmir (hence the existence of Pakistan itself) and will last looong after any Kashmir solution.

    Zoolander on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    It's amazing how many of these wars have been going on for hundreds and thousands of years. :|

    Incenjucar on
  • Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User
    edited November 2008
    Sal wrote: »
    This is an interesting article on the matter, and why it was an assault instead of a bombing.
    On a related note, I've heard that this also might be the work the non-Islamists in Pakistan - it messes with India but more importantly redirects the Islamists away from Pakistan and gives them something else to do (while getting killed in large numbers at the same time).

    There seems to be this dynamic in the region of getting your crazies to go and bother someone else. First it was Pakistan sending them off into Afghanistan and supporting the Taliban in order to keep the troublemakers on that side of the border. Lately, pressure on the Taliban has kept some Pakistani fundamentalists at home, causing trouble there.

    Now perhaps some elements in the government are saying that while trying to kill them and topple their government is all well and good, maybe they should try and have some fun in India, we'll even give you the boats and everything.

    Andrew_Jay on
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It's amazing how many of these wars have been going on for hundreds and thousands of years. :|

    Humans are great at holding grudges.

    Thomamelas on
  • corcorigancorcorigan Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It's amazing how many of these wars have been going on for hundreds and thousands of years. :|

    Humans are great at holding grudges.

    Humans are great at being really really fucking stupid at times.

    corcorigan on
    Ad Astra Per Aspera
  • YallYall Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Yall wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    I think, from the little I know of the situation in India, that it's important to avoid discussing these attacks in a vacuum.

    In 2002, Hindu mobs attacked and killed from 1,000 to 2,000 (largely defenseless) Muslims in the province of Gujarat. (Linku)

    This was itself retaliation for an earlier train station attack by Muslims in which about 60 Hindus were burned alive.

    Ignoring the pointless question of whether or not the Muslims "started it," 2,000 people is a lot of people. I really hope that a similar massacre doesn't happen again, in retaliation for the current attack—because it's not hard to see how such massacres can breed more Muslim attacks down the line.

    I think its very much the same as the Israeli/Palestinian issue in that at this point it doesn't really matter who started it, as the recriminations go on forever on both sides. All that matters is who ends it.

    Part of the problem, and I don't mean you specifically, is that events like this happen and each side sees it and then immediately attributes it to the previous actions of the other party. Since the other party was doing the exact same thing when they committed the very act being discussed, it just feeds on itself forever.

    It absolutely matters who started it. The root cause of the issue is that Islam is pretty explicit in it's hatred for polytheists (re:Hindu's). If your belief system and culture are such that they pretty much instruct you to hate another group and you are unwilling to amend it, how in the world is the cycle expected to stop?
    ...So you have no idea about the history of Indian politics, but decide you know what's best anyways? Hint: MOST Muslims get along fine with people of other religions. It's the fanatics that do this shit.

    Also, you sound terribly prejudiced against Muslims, might want to tone that down a bit.

    I actually have no problems with Muslims, but I do have a problem with Islam, and I'm pretty unapologetic about. The founder was a violent murderer, who had people assassinated, advocated war on non-believers, and was a general douchebag.

    People will say that he only acted in the "spirit" of the times, but since the foundations of Islam include the study of his life and actions (Sura and Hadith), and he is considered a revered individual, it's basically impossible to separate his atrocities from the religion itself. After all he is largely considered to be a perfect being by many, having led a sinless life.

    As you have stated, I think the majority of Muslims are perfectly fine people. But i think there will always be that fringe element that feels they are justified in acting as Mohammad would have. In fact, I would go so far as to argue that moderate Muslims are probably non-practicing, in a sense.

    I'm sort of tired of the notion that religions and cultures (or at least certain aspects) are somehow above criticism. Yes, a religion can be bad, and one can be "worse" than another.

    edit: I'd also like to point out that I'm not ignoring the history of Indian politics, I'm just going back to the beginning. The specifics of opinions vary, but many historians believe that Islam was spread violently through India in it's early days in the form of Jihad, thus beginning the spiral of violence that is now well into it's 2nd millennium.

    Yall on
    My band: https://youtu.be/rw2ersccCsQ[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • frank as fuckfrank as fuck __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2008
    Some of the hyperconservaties at another forum I frequent are talking about how the British people/government are to blame for this by allowing for "liberal multiculturalism" to dominate their government and giving terrorists a place to live and operate.

    Srsly.

    frank as fuck on
  • BogartBogart I Will Cure You Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2008
    Contrary to earlier rumours, no links whatsoever have been found between these particular terrorists and the UK.

    Yay?

    Bogart on
  • frank as fuckfrank as fuck __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2008
    Bogart wrote: »
    Contrary to earlier rumours, no links whatsoever have been found between these particular terrorists and the UK.

    Yay?

    Give me a citation so I can shove it in their faces.

    frank as fuck on
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