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The Black Friday Thread: Walmart Worker Trampled and Killed By Crowd

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Posts

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Ahh, Black Friday. When America shops and the rest of the world watches in horror.

    shryke on
  • EmanonEmanon __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    I've been burned too many times by Black Friday so we decided on staying in today.

    Emanon on
    Treats Animals Right!
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt Stepped in it Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    shryke wrote: »
    Ahh, Black Friday. When America shops and the rest of the world watches in horror.
    For someone in Canada, you don't seem that well acquainted with Boxing Day.

    Then again, I can't think of the last time someone died on one for shopping reasons.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    shryke wrote: »
    Ahh, Black Friday. When America shops and the rest of the world watches in horror.
    For someone in Canada, you don't seem that well acquainted with Boxing Day.

    Then again, I can't think of the last time someone died on one for shopping reasons.

    I've seen Boxing Day. It's bad. It's not "Break the hinges off the door to trample a man to death" bad. Not even close.

    shryke on
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Medopine wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    I think about 200 manslaughter charges would be nice.
    Just about impossible to get a conviction on that, let alone identify the defendants

    A civil suit by his family against WalMart might succeed though
    Wal-Mart isn't really responsible for a crazed mob busting down the fucking doors.
    Are you fucking shitting me?

    Wal-Mart isn't responsible for a random crazed mob walking down the street and breaking into their store. Wal-Mart is responsible for the crazed mob that they know shows up every Black Friday, that they advertise, pander to, and encourage. Wal-Mart created a situation where a trampling death was an easily foreseeable consequence, didn't have sufficient staff on hand to handle the rush, and are lucky that "beyond a reasonable doubt" would be very, very difficult to prove on this one, or their management would probably get charged with depraved indifference or criminally negligent homicide.

    Absofuckinglutely.

    Any decent shop would be worrying about the possibility of injury, letting customers in little by little, maybe hiring extra security, turning people away once the mob reached a critical mass, or hey just not fucking bothering in the first place.

    But no. The rush is great publicity, so they decide 'fuck public safety'.

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Two people killed in a SoCal Toys R' Us shooting:

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/11/28/state/n123739S87.DTL&tsp=1
    Two people were shot to death in a crowded toy store on Black Friday in a confrontation apparently involving rival groups, city officials said.

    Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other. Ferguson said he asked police whether the incident was a dispute over a toy or whether it was gang-related. He said police told him they were not going to release further details until the victims' relatives were notified.

    "I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."
    As I pointed out in the chat thread, it's stuff like this that makes people wonder about concealed carry.

    AngelHedgie on
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  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    poshniallo wrote: »

    Any decent shop would be worrying about the possibility of injury, letting customers in little by little, maybe hiring extra security, turning people away once the mob reached a critical mass, or hey just not fucking bothering in the first place.

    But no. The rush is great publicity, so they decide 'fuck public safety'.



    And again, "We the PEOPLE aren't responsible, its the big bad companies fault we trampled that guy!"

    Wal-mart didn't make people bust the doors, trample a man, ignore attempts by medical personnel to help the person, and then refuse to leave after being told a man had died because of their behavior.

    I agree that police should be there, but you'd be amazed how difficult it is to get a city to do that for local businesses in some areas. And what the hell is private security going to do against 2,000 people?

    It just feels dirty.
    As I pointed out in the chat thread, it's stuff like this that makes people wonder about concealed carry.



    To be fair, the police have been indicating that the shooting was more gang related than crazed shoppers. The reports I read had police saying that two parties with prior conflicts were shopping at the same store and encountered each other, contributing to what happened. It at least strongly implied it wasn't a case of First Degree Murder for Elmo.

    Raynaga on
  • chasmchasm Ill-tempered Texan Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Is California even a shall-issue state?

    chasm on
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    XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Raynaga wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »

    Any decent shop would be worrying about the possibility of injury, letting customers in little by little, maybe hiring extra security, turning people away once the mob reached a critical mass, or hey just not fucking bothering in the first place.

    But no. The rush is great publicity, so they decide 'fuck public safety'.



    And again, "We the PEOPLE aren't responsible, its the big bad companies fault we trampled that guy!"

    Wal-mart didn't make people bust the doors, trample a man, ignore attempts by medical personnel to help the person, and then refuse to leave after being told a man had died because of their behavior.

    I agree that police should be there, but you'd be amazed how difficult it is to get a city to do that for local businesses in some areas. And what the hell is private security going to do against 2,000 people?

    It just feels dirty.
    As I pointed out in the chat thread, it's stuff like this that makes people wonder about concealed carry.



    To be fair, the police have been indicating that the shooting was more gang related than crazed shoppers. The reports I read had police saying that two parties with prior conflicts were shopping at the same store and encountered each other, contributing to what happened. It at least strongly implied it wasn't a case of First Degree Murder for Elmo.

    I agree that the people in the mob are also at fault. They're both at fault.

    Walmart actively wanted a mob rushing in. It went just a bit further than they hoped, and bad things happened instead of the juicy publicity they wanted.

    Obviously, the rushing mob of people was neither a shock nor undesirable to them.

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    If no one can find a way to charge everyone involved with manslaughter, prosecutors need to get more creative.

    ViolentChemistry on
  • frank as fuckfrank as fuck __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    chasm wrote: »
    Is California even a shall-issue state?

    No. Definitely fucking not. It just makes me wonder why I can't concealed carry. God fucking damnit.

    frank as fuck on
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I stood in line for an hour and a half for a washer and dryer at half price. Once I got to the front they announced that they were 'sold out'.

    I did not freak out. Instead I bought a different washer and dryer.

    This that was my Black Friday story.

    Malkor on
    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • frank as fuckfrank as fuck __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    As I pointed out in the chat thread, it's stuff like this that makes people wonder about concealed carry.

    Wait. I assumed you were being reasonable about this, but I have since re-read it and determined that you're somehow implying that concealed carry permits and people who hold them are somehow responsible for things like this? Is that what you're saying?

    Because if you are, man, do we need to have some words.

    frank as fuck on
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt Stepped in it Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Weapons would've turned the Wallmart tragedy into a fullblown catastrophe. Instead of people stampeding in one direction, suddenly they would've been stampeding in every direction, and running right over anything preventing flight.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
  • frank as fuckfrank as fuck __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Weapons would've turned the Wallmart tragedy into a fullblown catastrophe. Instead of people stampeding in one direction, suddenly they would've been stampeding in every direction, and running right over anything preventing flight.

    That's not what we're talking about, but thanks for that speculation, anyway.

    frank as fuck on
  • Ghandi 2Ghandi 2 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    As I pointed out in the chat thread, it's stuff like this that makes people wonder about concealed carry.

    Wait. I assumed you were being reasonable about this, but I have since re-read it and determined that you're somehow implying that concealed carry permits and people who hold them are somehow responsible for things like this? Is that what you're saying?

    Because if you are, man, do we need to have some words.
    And I don't think anyone with a concealed carry permit is going to shoot someone in a fucking Toys R Us, even if that incident weren't a gang killing.

    Ghandi 2 on
  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ahh, Black Friday. When America shops and the rest of the world watches in horror.
    For someone in Canada, you don't seem that well acquainted with Boxing Day.

    Then again, I can't think of the last time someone died on one for shopping reasons.

    I've seen Boxing Day. It's bad. It's not "Break the hinges off the door to trample a man to death" bad. Not even close.

    Dude, you are fucking retarded if you believe for a second that you guys would act any more civilised than us if the box corporations didn't cynically take advantage of your culture by posting unbelievably great bargains while being grossly understocked.
    The fault firmly, firmly firmly lies with the corporations. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

    Rent on
  • frank as fuckfrank as fuck __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    The fact that you've just given up on people and they are obligated to act like fucking animals over cheap shit is rather depressing.

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Rent wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ahh, Black Friday. When America shops and the rest of the world watches in horror.
    For someone in Canada, you don't seem that well acquainted with Boxing Day.

    Then again, I can't think of the last time someone died on one for shopping reasons.

    I've seen Boxing Day. It's bad. It's not "Break the hinges off the door to trample a man to death" bad. Not even close.

    Dude, you are fucking retarded if you believe for a second that you guys would act any more civilised than us if the box corporations didn't cynically take advantage of your culture by posting unbelievably great bargains while being grossly understocked.
    The fault firmly, firmly firmly lies with the corporations. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

    No, the fault is with people who would stampede and fucking kill someone to save a few bucks.

    JohnDoe on
  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Natheo wrote: »
    The fact that you've just given up on people and they are obligated to act like fucking animals over cheap shit is rather depressing.

    I'm actually a fairly optimistic person, but also a realist in the sense that I know how people are when they can get something for nothing.
    My dad once embarassed me publicly and basically caused a huge scene when he didn't get a dollar off on his two-dollar item. This pretty much set the precedent for me that most people are greedy capitalistic fucks. I hope they can do better, but I can only affect my own actions so I just try to be a better person not try to make people change to be someone they're not.

    Rent on
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    Malkor wrote: »
    I stood in line for an hour and a half for a washer and dryer at half price. Once I got to the front they announced that they were 'sold out'.

    I did not freak out. Instead I bought a different washer and dryer.

    This that was my Black Friday story.

    I went to work today, and read the forums, helping customers for a combined total of about an hour and a half today. Print/copy shops are apparently not busy on Black Friday.

    Bionic Monkey on
    sig_megas_armed.jpg
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  • RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Rent wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ahh, Black Friday. When America shops and the rest of the world watches in horror.
    For someone in Canada, you don't seem that well acquainted with Boxing Day.

    Then again, I can't think of the last time someone died on one for shopping reasons.

    I've seen Boxing Day. It's bad. It's not "Break the hinges off the door to trample a man to death" bad. Not even close.

    Dude, you are fucking retarded if you believe for a second that you guys would act any more civilised than us if the box corporations didn't cynically take advantage of your culture by posting unbelievably great bargains while being grossly understocked.
    The fault firmly, firmly firmly lies with the corporations. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

    No, the fault is with people who would stampede and fucking kill someone to save a few bucks.
    So you're saying it's okay that corporations hugely advertise and create a culture of acceptance and need for an item, then intentionally and maliciously understock the item just to get people in the store, then don't put any effective safeguards at all such as a queue system or pay for some guards?
    If I gave you a loaded gun, taught you to use it, and told you every day to kill your family, am I at fault?

    Rent on
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited November 2008
    Wouldn't the relatives still be able to make a wrongful death suit against the mob with relative ease? Even if criminal charges are tough to stick, that one seems like a slam dunk.

    It's not actual justice, but it is at least more than a slap on the wrist.

    Aroduc on
  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Malkor wrote: »
    I stood in line for an hour and a half for a washer and dryer at half price. Once I got to the front they announced that they were 'sold out'.

    I did not freak out. Instead I bought a different washer and dryer.

    This that was my Black Friday story.

    lowes or sears?
    did you end up stepping up and getting the 328?

    dlinfiniti on
    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
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  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Rent wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ahh, Black Friday. When America shops and the rest of the world watches in horror.
    For someone in Canada, you don't seem that well acquainted with Boxing Day.

    Then again, I can't think of the last time someone died on one for shopping reasons.

    I've seen Boxing Day. It's bad. It's not "Break the hinges off the door to trample a man to death" bad. Not even close.

    Dude, you are fucking retarded if you believe for a second that you guys would act any more civilised than us if the box corporations didn't cynically take advantage of your culture by posting unbelievably great bargains while being grossly understocked.
    The fault firmly, firmly firmly lies with the corporations. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

    No, the fault is with people who would stampede and fucking kill someone to save a few bucks.

    I'm going to have to agree with John Boy on this.

    Speaker on
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Rent wrote: »
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Rent wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ahh, Black Friday. When America shops and the rest of the world watches in horror.
    For someone in Canada, you don't seem that well acquainted with Boxing Day.

    Then again, I can't think of the last time someone died on one for shopping reasons.

    I've seen Boxing Day. It's bad. It's not "Break the hinges off the door to trample a man to death" bad. Not even close.

    Dude, you are fucking retarded if you believe for a second that you guys would act any more civilised than us if the box corporations didn't cynically take advantage of your culture by posting unbelievably great bargains while being grossly understocked.
    The fault firmly, firmly firmly lies with the corporations. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

    No, the fault is with people who would stampede and fucking kill someone to save a few bucks.
    So you're saying it's okay that corporations hugely advertise and create a culture of acceptance and need for an item, then intentionally and maliciously understock the item just to get people in the store, then don't put any effective safeguards at all such as a queue system or pay for some guards?
    If I gave you a loaded gun, taught you to use it, and told you every day to kill your family, am I at fault?

    Besides that, I doubt more then a handful of people even knew he was there. As someone who has actually stood in a crowd at some point, I can tell you that it would be very, very easy for someone to get trampled if he fell down, just as a consequence of how crowds work. There's one or two people actually pushing, a few people jockeying for position, a fair number trying to peer over others to see what's going on, a lot of people just trying to make enough space for themselves (and, in this case, their children), and all the others just trying to avoid being knocked over and moving where they're pushed. It is WalMart that worked everybody up and caused that irresistible pressure from the back.

    Scalfin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Rent wrote: »
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Rent wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ahh, Black Friday. When America shops and the rest of the world watches in horror.
    For someone in Canada, you don't seem that well acquainted with Boxing Day.

    Then again, I can't think of the last time someone died on one for shopping reasons.

    I've seen Boxing Day. It's bad. It's not "Break the hinges off the door to trample a man to death" bad. Not even close.

    Dude, you are fucking retarded if you believe for a second that you guys would act any more civilised than us if the box corporations didn't cynically take advantage of your culture by posting unbelievably great bargains while being grossly understocked.
    The fault firmly, firmly firmly lies with the corporations. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

    No, the fault is with people who would stampede and fucking kill someone to save a few bucks.
    So you're saying it's okay that corporations hugely advertise and create a culture of acceptance and need for an item, then intentionally and maliciously understock the item just to get people in the store, then don't put any effective safeguards at all such as a queue system or pay for some guards?
    If I gave you a loaded gun, taught you to use it, and told you every day to kill your family, am I at fault?

    This is a joke right?

    Speaker on
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  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Speaker wrote: »
    Rent wrote: »
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Rent wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ahh, Black Friday. When America shops and the rest of the world watches in horror.
    For someone in Canada, you don't seem that well acquainted with Boxing Day.

    Then again, I can't think of the last time someone died on one for shopping reasons.

    I've seen Boxing Day. It's bad. It's not "Break the hinges off the door to trample a man to death" bad. Not even close.

    Dude, you are fucking retarded if you believe for a second that you guys would act any more civilised than us if the box corporations didn't cynically take advantage of your culture by posting unbelievably great bargains while being grossly understocked.
    The fault firmly, firmly firmly lies with the corporations. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

    No, the fault is with people who would stampede and fucking kill someone to save a few bucks.
    So you're saying it's okay that corporations hugely advertise and create a culture of acceptance and need for an item, then intentionally and maliciously understock the item just to get people in the store, then don't put any effective safeguards at all such as a queue system or pay for some guards?
    If I gave you a loaded gun, taught you to use it, and told you every day to kill your family, am I at fault?

    This is a joke right?

    I guess you consider the Hague to be a three ring circus, then.

    Scalfin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • JohnDoeJohnDoe Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Rent wrote: »
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Rent wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ahh, Black Friday. When America shops and the rest of the world watches in horror.
    For someone in Canada, you don't seem that well acquainted with Boxing Day.

    Then again, I can't think of the last time someone died on one for shopping reasons.

    I've seen Boxing Day. It's bad. It's not "Break the hinges off the door to trample a man to death" bad. Not even close.

    Dude, you are fucking retarded if you believe for a second that you guys would act any more civilised than us if the box corporations didn't cynically take advantage of your culture by posting unbelievably great bargains while being grossly understocked.
    The fault firmly, firmly firmly lies with the corporations. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

    No, the fault is with people who would stampede and fucking kill someone to save a few bucks.
    So you're saying it's okay that corporations hugely advertise and create a culture of acceptance and need for an item, then intentionally and maliciously understock the item just to get people in the store, then don't put any effective safeguards at all such as a queue system or pay for some guards?
    If I gave you a loaded gun, taught you to use it, and told you every day to kill your family, am I at fault?

    Idiotic analogy. More like this - If person A goes out and murders person B to steal their car, you'll be blaming the car company for making cars too expensive.

    And I went and killed my family? Yes, it would be my fault.

    JohnDoe on
  • frank as fuckfrank as fuck __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    "BLITZ LINE STARTS HERE"

    That is all.

    frank as fuck on
  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Oh come off it.

    At some point as your bloodied boot is crushing the limbs of the elderly welcomer it should occur to you that the $100 savings on the new washer may not be all that important.

    And I'm going to use as evidence the 300 million Americans other than myself who somehow managed not commit any felonies or misdemeanors in the quest to for sales.

    Speaker on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    JohnDoe wrote: »
    Rent wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ahh, Black Friday. When America shops and the rest of the world watches in horror.
    For someone in Canada, you don't seem that well acquainted with Boxing Day.

    Then again, I can't think of the last time someone died on one for shopping reasons.

    I've seen Boxing Day. It's bad. It's not "Break the hinges off the door to trample a man to death" bad. Not even close.

    Dude, you are fucking retarded if you believe for a second that you guys would act any more civilised than us if the box corporations didn't cynically take advantage of your culture by posting unbelievably great bargains while being grossly understocked.
    The fault firmly, firmly firmly lies with the corporations. To argue otherwise is ridiculous.

    No, the fault is with people who would stampede and fucking kill someone to save a few bucks.

    Stop creating false dichotomies people. The fault can lie with more than one party.

    Inquisitor on
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  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Or you could be getting pushed from behind and more worried about not sharing her fate.

    See Scalfin's explanation of how these kinds of stampedes work.

    I was disagreeing with Rent's brainwashing hypothesis, not debating crowd mechanics.

    Speaker on
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  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Any and all people involved in the act of knocking the door over are definitely at fault here. Walmart is at fault for not taking the necessary steps, as other have said. Hell, we as a society are at fault for this kind of thing.

    Inquisitor on
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