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Scared about the future of my relationship. I need help. (girl thread, wall of text)
Jean
Heartbroken papa bearGatineau, QuébecRegistered User regular
Heartbroken papa bearGatineau, QuébecRegistered User regular
I need external help to determine what to do next, if anything, in this relationship of mine, so here I come.
I am a canadian living in Québec and I'm in a LDR with an american living in Indiana.
We're both in our mid 20s and we're both inexperienced with the opposite sex. It's the first serious relationship for both of us. We had other relations before, but nothing that even come close in seriousness and intensity to this one. In short, we're both n00bs at this relationship thing.
Her brief description : Goody-2-shoe. Shy. NERD.
We met in person twice, the first time for 4 days and the other one for 9 days.
Our emotional and intellectual connection is so intense, it's almost unreal. We even complete each other sentences!
No mind games.. we're completely open with our feelings and toughts. It's awesome!
I never felt so strongly for anyone before. I want this relationship to ask for a long time.
The only BIG problem in this otherwise rosy picture is than she's not certain if she is ready or even willing to move to Canada to live with me. I'm getting sick of the distance. You cant hug or kiss a computer. Yet I really want this relationship to stay alive for a long, long time.
It's not an easy decision for her to make for sure. Does she love me enough to be willing to leave her familly behind?
She have all the informations needed to make a decion, but it will take time to sort all that out.
Right now I'm giving her space to make a decision om her own.
Have I done enough to be a good boyfriend? Have I done anything wrong? What could I have done more?
Those questions will haunt me forever should I loose her.
The ball is not in my court anymore and it is really destressing to me.
What to do? What to not do? I seriously need help.
I am a canadian living in Québec and I'm in a LDR with an american living in Indiana.
We're both in our mid 20s and we're both inexperienced with the opposite sex. It's the first serious relationship for both of us. We had other relations before, but nothing that even come close in seriousness and intensity to this one. In short, we're both n00bs at this relationship thing.
Her brief description : Goody-2-shoe. Shy. NERD.
We met in person twice, the first time for 4 days and the other one for 9 days.
Our emotional and intellectual connection is so intense, it's almost unreal. We even complete each other sentences!
No mind games.. we're completely open with our feelings and toughts. It's awesome!
I never felt so strongly for anyone before. I want this relationship to ask for a long time.
The only BIG problem in this otherwise rosy picture is than she's not certain if she is ready or even willing to move to Canada to live with me. I'm getting sick of the distance. You cant hug or kiss a computer. Yet I really want this relationship to stay alive for a long, long time.
It's not an easy decision for her to make for sure. Does she love me enough to be willing to leave her familly behind?
She have all the informations needed to make a decion, but it will take time to sort all that out.
Right now I'm giving her space to make a decision om her own.
Have I done enough to be a good boyfriend? Have I done anything wrong? What could I have done more?
Those questions will haunt me forever should I loose her.
The ball is not in my court anymore and it is really destressing to me.
What to do? What to not do? I seriously need help.
"You won't destroy us, You won't destroy our democracy. We are a small but proud nation. No one can bomb us to silence. No one can scare us from being Norway. This evening and tonight, we'll take care of each other. That's what we do best when attacked'' - Jens Stoltenberg
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All of those questions aside, I find it's very very hard for a LDR to work without a firm basis to get started with before the long distance happens. In other words, I find it very unlikely that you both are in a truly splendiferous relationship that both parties are completely happy with if you have never spent a great amount of time around each other. Think of this from her perspective: all she has ever seen of you is on holidays, you two have never had a chance to coexist and date while in each other's physical presence. It's an awful lot to ask of someone to move in with you if they don't know how you will be in real life.
We have known each other since Dec 2004. We have been a couple since Feb of 2005.
We met on a videogame forum. I wasnt looking for love at all, simply for someone to talk to.
She is graduating from college 2 weeks from now. I havent been in school for a few years now.
And the ball is in her court because of, well, $. I have a stable, well paying job that is only going to get better in the future. She dont even have one.
If she's in Indiana and isn't willing (or able, it's a long process!) to move to Canada yet, why don't you move to be closer to her? If you were in the southern tip of Ontario, it would be a five hour drive to see her. You could do it every weekend if you could afford the gas money. Or, if she still wants to be an American citizen but wants to be closer to you, why doesn't she look into moving to upstate New York/Vermont, where she would be right across the border from you?
Right now, you're not being fair to her. You're putting all of the pressure of the relationship's future on her, under the guise of "giving her space to make a decision on her own." You're presenting her with an ultimatum: "Move to Canada, or this relationship isn't going to go anywhere."
That's not how relationships work. There can be ten shittons of reasons why people might be reluctant to move, only a tiny fraction of which have to do with not loving their partner enough. My boyfriend would have dearly loved it if I had been able to move down to the US to be with him, and honestly, I would have too... but I was going into the fourth year of my undergrad when we met, and after that, I got an incredible offer to attend grad school at one of the best universities in Ontario. So, I'm still in Canada, and instead of pouting about it and worrying about whether or not I loved him enough, he just... adjusted. First, he moved from his home in small-town America to a much larger city, so he would be right on the train routes for easier travel; a couple of months later, when that didn't end up working out, he started staying with me for about two months out of every three, returning back to the US every so often to keep in touch with his family and friends and to take care of business stuff.
What have you done for your girlfriend? What sacrifices or adjustments are you willing to make? You've only seen her twice - why is that? If you can't afford to take the bus to go see her, how could you afford to support her if she was living with you? She wouldn't be able to get a job right away, and even the immigration process itself takes upwards of 18-24 months to go through.
All the love in the world doesn't mean a thing if it isn't matched by understanding, willingness to compromise, and some simple common sense.
This is a pretty shitty way of looking at it.
You are sitting down and saying, you do something.
You can work anywhere, if it's a well paying job that is only going to get better in the future, chances are it will get better anywhere.
Now saying this, my girlfriend is moving from China to come live with me, but there are several different reasons why this is a happy decision.
Firstly, I was open to moving to the idea of Shanghai, this didn't really turn out to be a good solution because she was unhappy there.
She before we were together was toying with the idea to move to Melbourne and study. This I was ready to support her with. However studying wasn't anything definite and I pointed out that if she didn't enter her graduate program, we would both be in a new city with no support and we would probably rely on each other too much.
So I then countered with a move to Perth. She agreed that it would satisfy her in regards to wanting to leave Shanghai and that the fact that she was moving to a city I already lived in and was familiar with I could help set up her own support network because I know the city. We also decided that if she chose to do her study in melbourne in early 2010 I would be open to the idea of going with her, OR if she was unhappy with the city I would be open to move with her.
My point is that our final decision while I admit is the easiest for me is also the easiest overall for everyone and that there are compromises in both directions. It may not be the case but it seems to me that you just seem to be yelling, "Come over here." and not really listening to her wants and needs.
Satans..... hints.....
My apologies, I should had been clearer about my job.
I work in my father's bussiness. A bar. A tavern, to be more precise.
A couple of years from now, when Father retires, i'll be the one in command. I'll buy the bussiness from him then makes really interesting money.
With that, I can guareentee her a good source of revenue for the 2 of us. A source I would have to give up to move.
Comparatively, she currently have no job at all.
A good source of revenue is a definite plus. Is there any significant reason why you can't move down to be with her for the short term, until your father retires?
...What
No. Very no.
Okay, it depends on what kind of work we're talking about, and that the U.S. is not the only economy in the world, but odds are excellent that having a stable, well-paying job is NOT some crappy throwaway tile in the great game of life. If she's graduating, her looking for a job near his would (financially) make a lot more sense than him tossing a good job aside and trucking down to her. (Having seen Jean's response and ninja-editing, I can safely say throwing his job out would be a goddamn stupid thing to do. I don't care if five hot, sweet, smart girls would be the result. Not Smart.)
Of course, family locations, etc. complicate the hell out of it, but job-wise, I'd say that just because your situation turned out great, he is not being a douche here. There's no talk of ultimatums or pressure on her to throw it all away for him; he's waiting for her to decide, as well he should for a big damn decision like this.
That said, Jean, 13 days of face time is not enough to found a relationship on. Could you compromise and have her visit for a month or two, to see how things go when the sparks have died down a bit?
Sorry, but shit is for sale anywhere.
Satans..... hints.....
Here is one interpretation of your situation: you are really, really good friends. But since you've only seen her in person twice, I'm not even sure I'd interpret what you have going on as a romantic relationship yet. There are certain things in a romantic relationship that are incommunicable over the internet, and you need time to test them. (Anecdotal experience: this is why my roommate's long distance relationship with a boy she met online failed.)
So if she is going to come live with you, you should be prepared to give her space—not just personal space in your apartment or whatever, but also space for your hopes of a successful romantic relationship with her to fail. After she moves in with you and you spend a few weeks together, either one of you might decide that you're not attracted to each other, or compatible with each other, in the way that you thought you were online. If this does happen, then she is shit out of luck—unless you have both prepared to accept a normal, platonic, roommate/friend relationship.
So in short, my advice is: make it clear to her that, while you'd like to have a romantic relationship with her, you'd still be more than happy to live with her as a platonic roommate if it doesn't work out.
And I know there will be others that come in and rebuke this, but you have spent a total of 13 days together in four years, AND you're both relatively young. The odds are against you of it working out.
Successful ones with firmly established face-to-face customer bases are not. Missing on the chance to buy out his dad when the gf has no job of her own is still a dumb idea.
I'll reiterate noir, though: 13 days will not reveal one tenth of all the personal quirks that comprise a real, out-of-computer person. Ignore that factor at your own risk.
Look, I agree with you.
But we aren't talking about the job here, this is a secondary consideration, really the point here is the relationship is the issue and in reality his job isn't a fixed item as he might think it is.
One of the keys to a successful relationship is compromise and as much as I hear that Jean loves this girl, I haven't seen much compromise. If she ends up moving to a place she really doesn't want to be then she will be bitter towards him.
Satans..... hints.....
I suspected we were pretty much in agreement--the problem is that from an economic standpoint, it'd be a terrible idea for him to move, more so than usual. As everyone noted, though, the other factors involved make it a moot point, i.e. no plans of this calibre should be made at all based on such limited time together.
You really can't overstate this. I dated a girl for 3 years, in what I considered to be an extremely open and loving relationship, and we even lived together for a period of time. We separated because things came up, after 2.5 years (!) that we couldn't overcome.
I'm not saying your relationship is worthless, not at all, but you need a lot more time together in real life to actually increase the chances of this being a good idea.
PSN/XBL: dragoniemx
Fine, tell me then, how they are supposed to spend more time together then.
Moving in together might not be the best of ideas but you can really only have a LDR unless you have a plan to stop it and come together eventually, otherwise they just tend to amble apart.
Satans..... hints.....
Also, get skype and webcams.
Visit her more than you have.
Expect to move down there if she would be moving away from her family and you wouldn't be. You're asking the person in a more emotionally vulnerable position to make themselves more vulnerable. This doesn't make you a bad person. However, you will lose this one eventually if you ask her to emotionally sacrifice more than you. Yes, I know, you have your job, but if people were always rational about tradeoffs and game theory, then we wouldn't have as much strife in the world, now would we?
You're about to enter a Sisyphean position if you aren't careful.
Though, as Blaket said, I have other motives for the move, which is what makes it easy and not something I find myself having to think too much on. Then again, I've been working for some years away from home and I'm a naturally mobile and independent person, so that also simplifies matters some.
If she is moving for a reason other than you (i.e., where you live will be a good place for her to find a job and start a career and set up a base support system for her life) and you are just a bonus benefit, then yeah, it makes sense.
If it makes more sense for her to graduate and find a job elsewhere (it doesn't even have to be where she is now, it could be someplace that's not where YOU are), then she should do that. Her career matters. It's only a good thing if her career goals are able to be met at your location.
Otherwise, neither of you seem stable enough (emotionally or professionally) to be able to deal with a move that is made based solely in the interests of exploring your relationship. (At least not yet.) The timing is all wrong. She just graduated, where she takes her next job will have a huge impact on her overall career goals. That should come first, especially if you really care about her. If you are unwilling to move to where SHE is for the sake of a job that you don't want to lose, then you're both going to have to wait until such time that you are BOTH ready to make the commitment and visit each other more in the meantime.
The current crisis makes finding jobs a pain, so I understand that you want to hang on to a job that you already have, no matter who gave it to you or where it is. That said, ask her where she WANTS or PLANS to be after graduation, and explore career opportunities there. If it looks dour, don't do it, tough out the LDR for a while longer and visit more. If it looks reasonably decent, consider YOU being the one to move.
Possibly consider it a trial run if you will. She can go stay with you for a couple weeks, or however long, and you both get more physical time with each other.
Then afterwards, you'll both probably have a greater idea of what you each want to do, expectations of each other, where you want the relationship to go ETC.
I will however echo everyone else who have said you need more "face time"... Regardless, best of luck..
I was gonna suggest that as an alternative to her visiting if she couldn't make it. It's still not face to face but getting into a habit of "seeing" each other on a regular basis would help to mitigate the "I never see you!" factor on both sides.
Just to be contrary, I'm going to say that while yes it would be good to spend more time together, but it can work out. I had a very similar situation the the OP.
I talked guy I met on a game online for 3 1/2 years. Neither of us having serious relationships in our lives. We were just friends, but did like each other. We felt the whole online dating thing was silly because I lived in Hawai'i and he lived in Texas so we didn't even consider it. Despite that we talked online pretty much every day for most of that time and talked on the phone every couple of weeks for a year and a half at least.
I moved away from Hawai'i following my parents when they retired from the military. Since it was winter brake and the college I was transferring too didn't start up for a month I went and stayed with the guy for 9 days and he drove me to Missouri from TX. We ended up starting a relationship like...pretty much right away. It was really crazy how well we clicked, we're best friends but we also have that passionate spark too.
I left, was miserable from Christmas(when he left) til Spring break, when I flew to see him again for another week, and then I was miserable again being apart. I really know how the original poster feels. We talked and said that one of us had to move, or else we had to break up. It was just too hard on both of us.
So yeah, after spending a total of 17 days together in person we decided to move in together. Best decision of my life. This month we've been together/living together for 6 years and married for nearly 4 years.
I can't tell you if she should move or you should move or if either of you should move. I can't say if it will work or not. But if things really are as great as you describe, it could work out.
Also, as a suggestion, since she is graduating college and doesn't have a job lined up yet, why don't you suggest she just come up to live with you for a month or so? She could still send out applications. You guys could get to know each other etc. Also, I wouldn't suggest anything illegal buuuuuuuuut, my husband's family owned a bar/grill and when I visited for a few months before we moved I was able to work as a waitress/dishwasher and get paid in cash/tips. Hint hint hint. :-P
See if she'd be up for just getting a roundtrip ticket for a visit of 3-6 weeks. That way she isn't committing to moving, you aren't committing to moving, neither of you are committing to living together permanently, you can keep your job, and there's a definite end date if stuff doesn't work out. Just make sure it's a long enough visit for the shine of the "honeymoon phase" to wear off, but not so long that if you realize you hate each other you don't end up killing each other.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
I do find it a bit telling, though, that the OP hasn't answered the question of why he has only seen this girl twice during the entire relationship for a combined total of less than two weeks. Dude, you've known her since 2004, and you say you've been in a relationship with her for almost four years now. Why aren't you spending more time with her? Are you actually in love with her, or are you just in that incredibly dangerous space of being in love with the idea of this person on the internet who is completely perfect for you and finishes all of your sentences? Because man, on the internet, it is easy as fuck to be somebody's soulmate. It's easy to say exactly the right thing, it's easy to get all butterfly-bellied and tingly when you see them log on AIM because you know you're about to have a wonderful conversation in which you will reaffirm your love for each other every five minutes. It's easy to dream wistfully about how perfect your relationship would be if only she would move to Canada for you.
But it's a whole lot harder to deal with face-to-face realities. So before you do any more agonized soul-searching about whether or not you're being a good enough internet boyfriend, why don't you try actually being a boyfriend in the first place? Go spend time with her, or ask her to come spend time with you. Right now, you're in love with four years of wildly idealized interaction tempered with 13 days of real contact. It's long past time to take things off the internet and really interact with each other.
I hate piling on the OP, but this is full of truth. Moving in with someone that you have spent less than 2 weeks in contact with may not be the best idea.
Hell, perhaps the girl thinks this way too, and that's what keeps her from moving.
No, dude. They won't.
I think it's admirable that you feel that strongly, and I know you think you can't imagine a time where this won't break your heart to think about it, but eventually you're going to realize that some relationships simply don't work, and that's not anybody's fault, it's just the way it is. Eventually you would find someone else that you feel as strongly about, and you'll remember that melodrama != romanticism. At which point you'll look back and realize that this isn't actually a matter of life or death--it's simply a normal, sort of unfortunate set of circumstances.
Sadly, that would be tricky. Considering she dont speak French it would be unthinkable to hire her as a waitress since 99% of our customers are french canadians. I guess she could do the cleaning if she wanted to.
Why I dont want to leave this place is because A) It's a goldmine and
And about not seeing her more -
We both agreed than not meeting sooner has been a big mistake. She have no money so I have to foot the bill for any visit, which I dont mind at all but it makes her uncomfortable.
Firstly you want her to move to Quebec I take it? Where the major language is French (I know most people speak english but the fact that the major language isn't one she speaks is a huge thing and is very convenitent that you skipped over that).
Secondly I really need to question your commitment if those are the reasons you aren't visiting each other. When I did my degree I was working 25+ hours a week for income, if she wants to see you why isn't she making any attempt? Why don't you go down and see her? Tell her it's your money and you can do what you want with it.
Really I think you two need to sit down and have a big honest talk about what you both want. Maybe once she graduates she can work where she wants, earn some cash and you can say take turns at visiting each other every two months. But sorry the more you talk about this it sounds like less of a relationship and more of an idea of a relationship.
Satans..... hints.....
If you're not willing to move to the US, and she's not willing to move to Canada, then break up. Hell, if you do end up living together my guess is you would hate it inside of six weeks.
Break up.
That 13 days is not enough. If she's uncomfortable with you paying for her to come to you, then book yourself a ticket and fly down to see her.
Unless, like someone else said, this is all just her way of making excuses to not make this any more serious.
So....you go visit her? That way you still foot the bill but you're paying for your self which eliminates the comfort problem. Time together anywhere is still time together. You're going to have to make sacrifices too and from what you've been saying it doesn't seem like you understand this. It appears to me that you're asking this girl to make all of the sacrifices and difficult decisions while everything stays relatively the same on your end. Honestly, and I'm not trying to flame you here, it seems like you haven't really thought this out well at all. You need to speak with her about it and modify your plans to where they are still practical but also more accomodating of her needs and comfortability.