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The Dead Saddam Hussein thread

LondonBridgeLondonBridge __BANNED USERS regular
edited January 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
The trial for Saddam Hussein is over and he has been sentenced to death. In a way I am saddened by the verdict as we all know he is a monster I feel its better he lived so hopefully he will someday see that his former country is better without him. That would be punishment enough. Now... which dictator is next or should be next?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061105/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saddam_verdict

LondonBridge on
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Posts

  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'm of the opinion that a person can commit crimes so hideous they forfeit the entirety of their humanity and their right to live.

    I believe Saddam Hussein didn't just cross that line, he wiped his dick on it.

    To that, I say, get a rope.

    Pony on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I, for one, am simply shocked by this verdict. Shocked, I tell you! :shock: and everything!

    Fencingsax on
  • Paul_IQ164Paul_IQ164 Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Personally I'm opposed to the death penalty, so while I can't say I'm in agreement with its use under any circumstances, I shall not be losing any sleep over this particular example.

    Paul_IQ164 on
    But obviously to make that into a viable anecdote you have to tart it up a bit.
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    A kangaroo court sentences and obviously guilty person to death! I am shocked! I'm against the death penalty so I don't support this.

    Couscous on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    It may not have been as much of a Kangaroo court as it could have but it still was far from the most fair of a trial. Granted the verdict was a foregone conclusion, it still would have been nice if it wasn't as much of a show for the cameras. They should have gone to the Hague and the ICC. A few attornies and families would still be alive at the very least.

    moniker on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    This one's going to be a pretty clear cut case, as far as how people feel about it. Man is clearly guilty, nobody is going to dispute that. But whether or not they feel his execution is justified is basically a question of whether or not a person believes the death penalty is just.

    I do. So, I'm cool with this.

    Pony on
  • Look Out it's Sabs!Look Out it's Sabs! Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Was reading about this in SE+++, and I know for one, that I won't be losing any sleep on Hussein being hanged even though I am against the death penalty.
    Too bad they are not going to use the gullotine on him or something though :P.

    Look Out it's Sabs! on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Saburbia wrote:
    Was reading about this in SE+++, and I know for one, that I won't be losing any sleep on Hussein being hanged even though I am against the death penalty.
    Too bad they are not going to use the gullotine on him or something though :P.

    He's going to be hung? The fuck?

    Fencingsax on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Saburbia wrote:
    Was reading about this in SE+++, and I know for one, that I won't be losing any sleep on Hussein being hanged even though I am against the death penalty.
    Too bad they are not going to use the gullotine on him or something though :P.

    He's going to be hung? The fuck?

    Hanged. He isn't a painting.

    moniker on
  • urbmanurbman Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Out of all the nice and quick methods they choose a Good Ol' Hangin.

    Damn I like that. From what news sites are saying the Shiites are partying like its 1999.

    But seriously its about time this guy was dealt with.

    urbman on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Paul_IQ164Paul_IQ164 Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Saburbia wrote:
    Too bad they are not going to use the gullotine on him or something though :P.
    Nah, when they're exicuting a dictator, you always want to be able to use an unusual verb form.

    Paul_IQ164 on
    But obviously to make that into a viable anecdote you have to tart it up a bit.
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  • Look Out it's Sabs!Look Out it's Sabs! Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Saburbia wrote:
    Was reading about this in SE+++, and I know for one, that I won't be losing any sleep on Hussein being hanged even though I am against the death penalty.
    Too bad they are not going to use the gullotine on him or something though :P.

    He's going to be hung? The fuck?

    In SE+++, Knob had been giving updates, and he is being hanged to death. Of course this is an Iraqi court so honestly are you that surprised?

    Look Out it's Sabs! on
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  • urbmanurbman Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Saburbia wrote:
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Saburbia wrote:
    Was reading about this in SE+++, and I know for one, that I won't be losing any sleep on Hussein being hanged even though I am against the death penalty.
    Too bad they are not going to use the gullotine on him or something though :P.

    He's going to be hung? The fuck?

    In SE+++, Knob had been giving updates, and he is being hanged to death. Of course this is an Iraqi court so honestly are you that surprised?

    They should sentence him to be drawn and quartered. Wait they want to be a civilized country, never mind.

    urbman on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    There are more merciful and painless ways of executing a person. Like lethal injection. But you know what? I don't think Saddam deserves that. I don't believe vengeance is healthy, but at the same time, I don't think we have to give undue kindness to someone so hideous. Hang em. Takes seconds, and it's over. It's not vengeful, but ain't nice either. Execution shouldn't be nice. You're killing a guy for being a monster. He doesn't get cuddles.

    Pony on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    urbman wrote:
    Saburbia wrote:
    Fencingsax wrote:
    Saburbia wrote:
    Was reading about this in SE+++, and I know for one, that I won't be losing any sleep on Hussein being hanged even though I am against the death penalty.
    Too bad they are not going to use the gullotine on him or something though :P.

    He's going to be hung? The fuck?

    In SE+++, Knob had been giving updates, and he is being hanged to death. Of course this is an Iraqi court so honestly are you that surprised?

    They should sentence him to be drawn and quartered. Wait they want to be a civilized country, never mind.

    Drawn and thirded then?

    moniker on
  • Look Out it's Sabs!Look Out it's Sabs! Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Pony wrote:
    There are more merciful and painless ways of executing a person. Like lethal injection. But you know what? I don't think Saddam deserves that. I don't believe vengeance is healthy, but at the same time, I don't think we have to give undue kindness to someone so hideous. Hang em. Takes seconds, and it's over. It's not vengeful, but ain't nice either. Execution shouldn't be nice. You're killing a guy for being a monster. He doesn't get cuddles.

    Suggestion from someone in SE+++, use a gullotine and have him facing upwards so he can see it come down. :wink:

    Look Out it's Sabs! on
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  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Saburbia wrote:
    Pony wrote:
    There are more merciful and painless ways of executing a person. Like lethal injection. But you know what? I don't think Saddam deserves that. I don't believe vengeance is healthy, but at the same time, I don't think we have to give undue kindness to someone so hideous. Hang em. Takes seconds, and it's over. It's not vengeful, but ain't nice either. Execution shouldn't be nice. You're killing a guy for being a monster. He doesn't get cuddles.

    Suggestion from someone in SE+++, use a gullotine and have him facing upwards so he can see it come down. :wink:

    See, to me, that starts walking into vengeance territory.

    I think it's better to have him standing on a platform, with hundreds of cheering Iraqis around him, watching their faces and knowing these are the people whose lives he was destroying.

    And then someone pulls a switch, and it's over for him.

    Pony on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Pony wrote:
    There are more merciful and painless ways of executing a person. Like lethal injection. But you know what? I don't think Saddam deserves that. I don't believe vengeance is healthy, but at the same time, I don't think we have to give undue kindness to someone so hideous. Hang em. Takes seconds, and it's over. It's not vengeful, but ain't nice either. Execution shouldn't be nice. You're killing a guy for being a monster. He doesn't get cuddles.

    Being hanged is one of the most merciful and painless ways to go. Snap of the neck and he's dead. If I had to pick a way to go it'd be the short drop with a quick stop.

    moniker on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    moniker wrote:
    Pony wrote:
    There are more merciful and painless ways of executing a person. Like lethal injection. But you know what? I don't think Saddam deserves that. I don't believe vengeance is healthy, but at the same time, I don't think we have to give undue kindness to someone so hideous. Hang em. Takes seconds, and it's over. It's not vengeful, but ain't nice either. Execution shouldn't be nice. You're killing a guy for being a monster. He doesn't get cuddles.

    Being hanged is one of the most merciful and painless ways to go. Snap of the neck and he's dead. If I had to pick a way to go it'd be the short drop with a quick stop.

    Very few people die instantaneously that way. It's quick, but it's not painless or instant. I am okay with that.

    Pony on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    They ought to have brought back one of the classics, like boiling in oil. What ever happened to that?

    I think this situation just goes to show that even when a verdict is just, and the sentence is just (which I think this was), if the trial wasn't fair it doesn't feel right. I suspect that the history books years from now will probably spend just as much time, if not more, talking about how fucked up his trial was as they do talking about his crimes.

    Wonder what GW will say then.

    mcdermott on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'm in favour of hanging because it's not as gruesome as other forms of execution. It's something you could put on as a public spectacle. And I think it should be. It'd be very cathartic for many Iraqis to watch this son of a bitch die.

    Pony on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Pony wrote:
    There are more merciful and painless ways of executing a person. Like lethal injection. But you know what? I don't think Saddam deserves that. I don't believe vengeance is healthy, but at the same time, I don't think we have to give undue kindness to someone so hideous. Hang em. Takes seconds, and it's over. It's not vengeful, but ain't nice either. Execution shouldn't be nice. You're killing a guy for being a monster. He doesn't get cuddles.
    He is still a human and deserves the rights we give humans. One of these rights is usually a mostly painless death when being executed. How isn't wanting to treat him less than nice vengeful?
    Harm or damage done to someone in retaliation for harm or damage.

    Revenge or vengeance consists of retaliation against a person or group in response to perceived wrongdoing. Although many aspects of revenge resemble or echo the concept of making things equal, revenge usually has a more injurious than constructive goal.

    take revenge for a perceived wrong; "He wants to avenge the murder of his brother"

    Couscous on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Pony wrote:
    I'm in favour of hanging because it's not as gruesome as other forms of execution. It's something you could put on as a public spectacle. And I think it should be. It'd be very cathartic for many Iraqis to watch this son of a bitch die.
    Or it might just make him a martyr.

    Couscous on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    titmouse wrote:
    Pony wrote:
    There are more merciful and painless ways of executing a person. Like lethal injection. But you know what? I don't think Saddam deserves that. I don't believe vengeance is healthy, but at the same time, I don't think we have to give undue kindness to someone so hideous. Hang em. Takes seconds, and it's over. It's not vengeful, but ain't nice either. Execution shouldn't be nice. You're killing a guy for being a monster. He doesn't get cuddles.
    He is still a human and deserves the rights we give humans. One of these rights is usually a mostly painless death when being executed. How isn't wanting to treat him less than nice vengeful?
    Harm or damage done to someone in retaliation for harm or damage.

    Revenge or vengeance consists of retaliation against a person or group in response to perceived wrongdoing. Although many aspects of revenge resemble or echo the concept of making things equal, revenge usually has a more injurious than constructive goal.

    take revenge for a perceived wrong; "He wants to avenge the murder of his brother"

    I believe that when you commit crimes against humanity on the level Saddam has, you forfeit most of your basic human rights. You become a non-person. The only reason we don't shit all over these people and torture them is because we're better than that. But not so good as to give him a totally nice, easy way out with a soft warm washcloth on the forehead. No. He gets to die, with a decent amount of pain, and know other people will be dancing in the street when he goes. I don't consider that vengeance. I consider that justice.

    Pony on
  • Look Out it's Sabs!Look Out it's Sabs! Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I don't think no one really cares much for Hussein and care if his execution is going to be painless or not. Except for those hippies/extremists who are all about peace, but they don't matter in this topic since I bet mostly everyone in Iraq want to see him hang.

    Look Out it's Sabs! on
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    titmouse wrote:
    Pony wrote:
    I'm in favour of hanging because it's not as gruesome as other forms of execution. It's something you could put on as a public spectacle. And I think it should be. It'd be very cathartic for many Iraqis to watch this son of a bitch die.
    Or it might just make him a martyr.

    Not to mention 'assassinated' on the platform. You don't put an ex-leader convicted of crimes against humanity on a pedastal in front of a well armed crowd and expect things to go along smoothly. At worst they could pull a Mussolini, but now you're degrading the corpse of the man.

    moniker on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    moniker wrote:
    titmouse wrote:
    Pony wrote:
    I'm in favour of hanging because it's not as gruesome as other forms of execution. It's something you could put on as a public spectacle. And I think it should be. It'd be very cathartic for many Iraqis to watch this son of a bitch die.
    Or it might just make him a martyr.

    Not to mention 'assassinated' on the platform. You don't put an ex-leader convicted of crimes against humanity on a pedastal in front of a well armed crowd and expect things to go along smoothly. At worst they could pull a Mussolini, but now you're degrading the corpse of the man.

    I wouldn't encourage it, but if the Iraqi people pulled a Mussolini on Saddam I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

    Pony on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Pony wrote:
    titmouse wrote:
    Pony wrote:
    There are more merciful and painless ways of executing a person. Like lethal injection. But you know what? I don't think Saddam deserves that. I don't believe vengeance is healthy, but at the same time, I don't think we have to give undue kindness to someone so hideous. Hang em. Takes seconds, and it's over. It's not vengeful, but ain't nice either. Execution shouldn't be nice. You're killing a guy for being a monster. He doesn't get cuddles.
    He is still a human and deserves the rights we give humans. One of these rights is usually a mostly painless death when being executed. How isn't wanting to treat him less than nice vengeful?
    Harm or damage done to someone in retaliation for harm or damage.

    Revenge or vengeance consists of retaliation against a person or group in response to perceived wrongdoing. Although many aspects of revenge resemble or echo the concept of making things equal, revenge usually has a more injurious than constructive goal.

    take revenge for a perceived wrong; "He wants to avenge the murder of his brother"

    I believe that when you commit crimes against humanity on the level Saddam has, you forfeit most of your basic human rights. You become a non-person. The only reason we don't shit all over these people and torture them is because we're better than that. But not so good as to give him a totally nice, easy way out with a soft warm washcloth on the forehead. No. He gets to die, with a decent amount of pain, and know other people will be dancing in the street when he goes. I don't consider that vengeance. I consider that justice.
    The difference between vengeance and justice is usually almost nonexistant. If that is what you consider justice, then there is no difference between justice and vengeance in this case. How is what you want not vengeance?

    Couscous on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Pony wrote:
    moniker wrote:
    titmouse wrote:
    Pony wrote:
    I'm in favour of hanging because it's not as gruesome as other forms of execution. It's something you could put on as a public spectacle. And I think it should be. It'd be very cathartic for many Iraqis to watch this son of a bitch die.
    Or it might just make him a martyr.

    Not to mention 'assassinated' on the platform. You don't put an ex-leader convicted of crimes against humanity on a pedastal in front of a well armed crowd and expect things to go along smoothly. At worst they could pull a Mussolini, but now you're degrading the corpse of the man.

    I wouldn't encourage it, but if the Iraqi people pulled a Mussolini on Saddam I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

    What the fuck does insomnia have to do with a damn thing? Either admit that you think it is wrong but are willing to grant an exception or say that you support such an action.

    moniker on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    titmouse wrote:
    Pony wrote:
    titmouse wrote:
    Pony wrote:
    There are more merciful and painless ways of executing a person. Like lethal injection. But you know what? I don't think Saddam deserves that. I don't believe vengeance is healthy, but at the same time, I don't think we have to give undue kindness to someone so hideous. Hang em. Takes seconds, and it's over. It's not vengeful, but ain't nice either. Execution shouldn't be nice. You're killing a guy for being a monster. He doesn't get cuddles.
    He is still a human and deserves the rights we give humans. One of these rights is usually a mostly painless death when being executed. How isn't wanting to treat him less than nice vengeful?
    Harm or damage done to someone in retaliation for harm or damage.

    Revenge or vengeance consists of retaliation against a person or group in response to perceived wrongdoing. Although many aspects of revenge resemble or echo the concept of making things equal, revenge usually has a more injurious than constructive goal.

    take revenge for a perceived wrong; "He wants to avenge the murder of his brother"

    I believe that when you commit crimes against humanity on the level Saddam has, you forfeit most of your basic human rights. You become a non-person. The only reason we don't shit all over these people and torture them is because we're better than that. But not so good as to give him a totally nice, easy way out with a soft warm washcloth on the forehead. No. He gets to die, with a decent amount of pain, and know other people will be dancing in the street when he goes. I don't consider that vengeance. I consider that justice.
    The difference between vengeance and justice is usually almost nonexistant. If that is what you consider justice, then there is no difference between justice and vengeance in this case. How is what you want not vengeance?

    Alternately, I just have a different place where I draw the line between justice and vengeance than you. That doesn't make them the same thing, it means I see them differently than you do. And that's cool. Neither of us is judges or lawyers or anything, so it's not like our opinion on the subject has bearing on human lives.

    Pony on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Pony wrote:
    titmouse wrote:
    Pony wrote:
    titmouse wrote:
    Pony wrote:
    There are more merciful and painless ways of executing a person. Like lethal injection. But you know what? I don't think Saddam deserves that. I don't believe vengeance is healthy, but at the same time, I don't think we have to give undue kindness to someone so hideous. Hang em. Takes seconds, and it's over. It's not vengeful, but ain't nice either. Execution shouldn't be nice. You're killing a guy for being a monster. He doesn't get cuddles.
    He is still a human and deserves the rights we give humans. One of these rights is usually a mostly painless death when being executed. How isn't wanting to treat him less than nice vengeful?
    Harm or damage done to someone in retaliation for harm or damage.

    Revenge or vengeance consists of retaliation against a person or group in response to perceived wrongdoing. Although many aspects of revenge resemble or echo the concept of making things equal, revenge usually has a more injurious than constructive goal.

    take revenge for a perceived wrong; "He wants to avenge the murder of his brother"

    I believe that when you commit crimes against humanity on the level Saddam has, you forfeit most of your basic human rights. You become a non-person. The only reason we don't shit all over these people and torture them is because we're better than that. But not so good as to give him a totally nice, easy way out with a soft warm washcloth on the forehead. No. He gets to die, with a decent amount of pain, and know other people will be dancing in the street when he goes. I don't consider that vengeance. I consider that justice.
    The difference between vengeance and justice is usually almost nonexistant. If that is what you consider justice, then there is no difference between justice and vengeance in this case. How is what you want not vengeance?

    Alternately, I just have a different place where I draw the line between justice and vengeance than you. That doesn't make them the same thing, it means I see them differently than you do. And that's cool. Neither of us is judges or lawyers or anything, so it's not like our opinion on the subject has bearing on human lives.
    Tell me what is the difference between justice and vengeance to you? The difference is usually that vengeance is focused on making the person suffer for what he did instead of prevent even if it serves almost no purpose. The Catholic Church defines justice as treating all people equally to oneself and to each other.

    Couscous on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    titmouse wrote:
    Tell me what is the difference between justice and vengeance to you? The difference is usually that vengeance is focused on making the person suffer for what he did instead of prevent even if it serves almost no purpose. The Catholic Church defines justice as treating all people equally to oneself and to each other.

    The difference between the two, for me, is that while justice is acted with the intent of righting a grevious wrong, vengeance is done purely for the self-interest of the person who feels wronged. It's the difference between just killing a guy because he deserves to die, and torturing him for hours because it'd make you feel better. It's a fuzzy line, but an important one to stand on the right side of. You might not like it, but that's your problem, not mine.

    Pony on
  • Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    "Get a rope"?

    What, did he serve you some salsa made in New York City?

    *cough*

    On topic, wasn't this trial supposed to, you know, last a whole lot longer?

    Target Practice on
    sig.gif
  • YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Two days before midterms? Shocked I say.

    YodaTuna on
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    "Get a rope"?

    What, did he serve you some salsa made in New York City?

    *cough*

    On topic, wasn't this trial supposed to, you know, last a whole lot longer?

    He's got a bunch of other shit he's still on trial for. I don't know if they'll actually try him for it, though, or they'll just skip to executing him since most of the other shit carries the death penalty anyway.

    Pony on
  • LondonBridgeLondonBridge __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    YodaTuna wrote:
    Two days before midterms? Shocked I say.

    This is not sudden news. The media knew the verdict was going to be read today for weeks.

    LondonBridge on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Pony wrote:
    titmouse wrote:
    Tell me what is the difference between justice and vengeance to you? The difference is usually that vengeance is focused on making the person suffer for what he did instead of prevent even if it serves almost no purpose. The Catholic Church defines justice as treating all people equally to oneself and to each other.

    The difference between the two, for me, is that while justice is acted with the intent of righting a grevious wrong, vengeance is done purely for the self-interest of the person who feels wronged. It's the difference between just killing a guy because he deserves to die, and torturing him for hours because it'd make you feel better. It's a fuzzy line, but an important one to stand on the right side of. You might not like it, but that's your problem, not mine.
    You want him hanged in public just to make the Iraqi people feel better. You even stated that you wouldn't mind if they did what happened Mussolini, which involved hanging them upside down on meathooks. How is that not revenge?

    Couscous on
  • YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    YodaTuna wrote:
    Two days before midterms? Shocked I say.

    This is not sudden news. The media knew the verdict was going to be read today for weeks.

    Joe Average didn't. You don't really think this is a coincidence, do you?

    YodaTuna on
  • BuntaBunta Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'm more shocked how no one in this thread has mentioned stoning yet as a method of execution. Especially as it's been pretty popular in the region for ages.

    Bunta on
  • ToadTheMushroomToadTheMushroom Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Pony are you American?

    Because you seem to be strongly in favor of killing Saddam, and have no bones about how grousome or painful it is.

    I'm of the opinion that particularly the american media has covered his trial so much and influenced the opinions of an awful lot of people (prime example: Pony) that we can't be too hasty in killing him. Sure, he's been proven to have done some bad things in the past, but this all reeks of a hasty penalty to cover something up, like the fact that he doesn't deserve to die or that if he doesn't America will be seen to have 'failed' in Iraq.

    Saddams death is what America wants for justification. I for one am against this.

    ToadTheMushroom on
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