I was thinking more along the lines of a 4X. I've been playing Gigantic maps in Galactic Civilisations 2, and the AI is incredible. It's wonderful because there's so much to do - fundamentally similar to SoaSE but with a broader range of options. I mean, if you want to end a war in SoaSE you ask for a cease fire, or whatever, but if you've got the upper hand in GalCiv2 you can demand a planet and all of their latest technologies, then put a trade embargo on them and send spies to take out all their factories.
Then you declare war on them the next round and EVERYONE hates you for being a backstabbing dick. It's great!
The tech trees in SoaSE are mostly unique between races, and the diplomacy is a different beast than GalCiv2. No doubt such options as giving away planets peacefully may become possible with the diplomacy expansion, but as of right now it's still possible to do such a thing manually via demanding that an enemy abandon a planet to your forces or you'll blow their entire empire to hell.
I know because I've successfully made such (empty) threats before and got myself a planet back without combat. Of course, this is impossible against the AI, but one of the features that turned me off to GalCiv2 was the lack of multiplayer.
The AI HAS to have these options in GalCiv2, because it's an AI! It cannot comprehend the written word like a human can. The diplomacy in SoaSE as a result feels far more intimate and real than clicking a button that says 'demand planet' and hitting 'ok'.
Fast game settings, using entrenchment, probably single-star system though I guess we can vote on that on the day if people are unhappy, Myself, yourself, and Scarab confirmed to play thus far.
Meeting up on Sat 28th, 8pm GMT, 3pm EST, in the Steam group chat room.
So how do you demand someone leave the planet? I mean, multiplayer you just say it, but single player? And if you're the one being demanded, can you just up and abandon a planet? I don't see an option for that.
Anyway, I wouldn't say the tech trees are different across the races. Sure, the makeup is slightly different, certain techs here and there and in different places but for the most part they all share virtually identical technologies, with a handful of race unique ones.
Even the military ones are fairly cookie cutter as far as individual research options go. I mean, they've all got their long lines of various weapon upgrades and defense upgrades that have the end result of pretty much the same increases in those areas; they've all got the culture advancing trees that have the same effects, the resource gathering trees, etc.
I'm not really complaining, just pointing it out. It would have been nice to have at least one race that played significantly different than the others.
Anyway, I'm not worried. The base game, sure it's not Civ4 or anything, but it's still a blast and they did an amazing job with it. And so far I'm loving Entrenchment, they did a great job with it too, giving defense a much needed boost with a slight of hand use for some of these structures on offense; so I have faith that what they decide to do with the Diplomacy xpack will be good too.
Kind of a random question though: What the hell does spreading your culture do anyway, aside from make the phase jump lines turn your color? I haven't really seen any effect of having heavy culture creep into an opponents planet; it doesn't subversively take over the planet, and it doesn't seem to adversely effect your planet if it's influenced heavily by another. What am I missing here, because this aspect seems like it's important from the temples/media hubs and all their accompanying research, but I just don't see what it does in actual play.
And no, you can't do it in single player Dude (off-topic, but are you the victim of one of Cardboard Tube's name changes or is that your chosen alias? 0.o), Sins was designed as a multiplayer game. I mean, the AI is okay, but imho not that fun to play against or with.
Abandoning a planet is possible, though, it's the same as scuttling a ship. There's a button underneath the unit icon, kinda small admittedly, that if you click it will abandon the planet or scuttle the currently selected ship. I guess they made it small and unobvious so people wouldn't click it by mistake and go "fuck".
Culture can make enemy planets flip to neutral if they don't build their own culture centres to combat it. Of course it has no effect on allied planets, only those you're at war with. Imho though it's pretty much useless since it's a very slow change and they will always have time to get some culture structures up and keep a Cap ship around to quickly get rid of enemy culture (capital ships decrease enemy culture in the system they're in).
Culture affects your economy. If you've moused over the allegiance percentage on planets you'll notice x% of credits/resources lost due to allegiance. As said before if allegiance goes to 0% then the planet turns neutral.
Your ships also get a bonus if they are in friendly culture. Advent get more shield mitigation, Vasari get more damage, and TEC get increased anti-matter regeneration. The bonuses get increased if you research along the spread route.
My name was KingsHand and I wanted it changed to either The Dude (my av/sig at the time was the dude) or Kingshand (lowercase H, it just bugged me) and well...you can see the result.
I see, about culture. Well, maybe that's something that'll have more impact in the diplomacy pack. I had seen situations where I would blow the hell out of a planet and then it'd tell me that the previous owners influence is still too great for me to take over (influence with who? the population was zero o.O), but not a situation where a planet went neutral from influence. Ah well, now I know.
It'd be nice if it had some bonus to your own empire, the higher culture the more allegiance or something to that effect. As it stands it's not terribly useful.
So in continuing my series of questions: is there any reason to have more than one trade port/refinery per gravity well?
EDIT: to Tertiee I was under the impression that culture doesn't effect your allegiance at all. Allegiance seems to be determined solely on distance from your capital and other research. Also I think I knew that about ship bonuses but just spaced.
Distance from the home planet is the primary factor for allegiance but the culture spreading buildings make an impact too. Culture buildings can bring a planet up to +10%(20% if you've made the research with Advent) over the base allegiance. For example you'll see a home planet with 110% allegiance.
As it stands culture is a rather subtle component which will probably only make a difference if the match is close.
Does the new expansion make any kind of defence possible? I loved the game when I got it, but when I realized that the enemy fleet could fly straight through my fleet and bring enough siege frigates to destroy everything behind the lines I gave up.
So, do we have more deadly defensive weapons, better warp lane control and a rebalancing between damage and resilience? Or is the game still broken
1) Siege frigates were massively nerfed. Too much for my taste. They're pretty much useless now, even having 5 to go along with your fleet and take out planets faster isn't worth the cost if you have a few caps.
2) Defence is much more viable, though you'll still need home fleets to some extent.
Well I have to go right now but I'd just like to say good game, hope Astns gives him a run for his money. Catch 22 going on here, weekends are the only days when we have enough spare time to get a game going, but weekends are when we spend that time obligated to do other stuff. woop woop
GG peeps. I was the first victim of DoA's shenanagins, but I fear I shan't be the last!
DoA, why no Marza?
Personal preference. Always grab the Akkan first for rapid expansion purposes. Usually afterwards all I build are Kols, simply because at lvl 1 they are the most survivable Cap Ship. Players see low level cap ships and focus on them so they don't get stronger, and the Kol is best equipped to survive situations like that with it's abilities.
Does the Hard AI get a resource handicap? I was having a 1v1 game with myself as Advent and the AI as TEC, and at one point I engaged their fleet with mine near an unclaimed planet. Every bit of cash I got went into research or planet development, but with about ten Advent Light Frigates and a Level 3 Radiance, I figured I'd be okay to take out 8 or so Cobalts and a Level 1 Sova.
As soon as I wrecked those 8 Cobalts, maybe 12 more jumped in. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but there is no way that the TEC had that kind of a resource jump on me.
if time is an issue for people (as it tends to be for me often), I wouldn't be adverse to setting up a larger, "persistent" game where we play a couple hours a week. I'd prefer that than playing for a couple hours and not really "finishing" the game. I don't think people need to fight to the last frigate, but today people were bailing with established empires that while outlying planets were going to fall, they could have easily maintained the rest of their empire if they wanted.
Anyway, I'm up for smaller games whenever if folks want to. 2 or 3 players or really however many people feel like playing at that time. I don't need every game to be a large 6-9 player affair.
Unfair is the only ai that cheats with resources. I remember when they added it, they pointed out it was the only one that got extra income.
Man, I need to improve my skills. I can regularly slaughter the AI on Normal, but a Hard AI overwhelms me with an insane volume of Frigates. Maybe I should diversify beyond just Light Frigates? I do love that Advent gets them so cheaply, but it might not be the best strategy.
So, I've probably missed it in the discussion, but:
Is there ANY limit on mines? Seems like I could fill entire gravity wells with the things. :P
Yeah, it's 150 in a well. If you mouse over the mines or the minelayers (I can't remember which) it will tell you how many you have/can have.
EDIT: I just checked and I was wrong. If you mouse over a planet that has mines in the well, it will list them under Logistics Slots. If there are no mines or, maybe mine capable structures, it won't show.
Posts
The tech trees in SoaSE are mostly unique between races, and the diplomacy is a different beast than GalCiv2. No doubt such options as giving away planets peacefully may become possible with the diplomacy expansion, but as of right now it's still possible to do such a thing manually via demanding that an enemy abandon a planet to your forces or you'll blow their entire empire to hell.
I know because I've successfully made such (empty) threats before and got myself a planet back without combat. Of course, this is impossible against the AI, but one of the features that turned me off to GalCiv2 was the lack of multiplayer.
The AI HAS to have these options in GalCiv2, because it's an AI! It cannot comprehend the written word like a human can. The diplomacy in SoaSE as a result feels far more intimate and real than clicking a button that says 'demand planet' and hitting 'ok'.
I must say I'm rather looking forward to it.
Meeting up on Sat 28th, 8pm GMT, 3pm EST, in the Steam group chat room.
So how do you demand someone leave the planet? I mean, multiplayer you just say it, but single player? And if you're the one being demanded, can you just up and abandon a planet? I don't see an option for that.
Anyway, I wouldn't say the tech trees are different across the races. Sure, the makeup is slightly different, certain techs here and there and in different places but for the most part they all share virtually identical technologies, with a handful of race unique ones.
Even the military ones are fairly cookie cutter as far as individual research options go. I mean, they've all got their long lines of various weapon upgrades and defense upgrades that have the end result of pretty much the same increases in those areas; they've all got the culture advancing trees that have the same effects, the resource gathering trees, etc.
I'm not really complaining, just pointing it out. It would have been nice to have at least one race that played significantly different than the others.
Anyway, I'm not worried. The base game, sure it's not Civ4 or anything, but it's still a blast and they did an amazing job with it. And so far I'm loving Entrenchment, they did a great job with it too, giving defense a much needed boost with a slight of hand use for some of these structures on offense; so I have faith that what they decide to do with the Diplomacy xpack will be good too.
Kind of a random question though: What the hell does spreading your culture do anyway, aside from make the phase jump lines turn your color? I haven't really seen any effect of having heavy culture creep into an opponents planet; it doesn't subversively take over the planet, and it doesn't seem to adversely effect your planet if it's influenced heavily by another. What am I missing here, because this aspect seems like it's important from the temples/media hubs and all their accompanying research, but I just don't see what it does in actual play.
EDIT: Just added myself to the steam group.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
And no, you can't do it in single player Dude (off-topic, but are you the victim of one of Cardboard Tube's name changes or is that your chosen alias? 0.o), Sins was designed as a multiplayer game. I mean, the AI is okay, but imho not that fun to play against or with.
Abandoning a planet is possible, though, it's the same as scuttling a ship. There's a button underneath the unit icon, kinda small admittedly, that if you click it will abandon the planet or scuttle the currently selected ship. I guess they made it small and unobvious so people wouldn't click it by mistake and go "fuck".
Culture can make enemy planets flip to neutral if they don't build their own culture centres to combat it. Of course it has no effect on allied planets, only those you're at war with. Imho though it's pretty much useless since it's a very slow change and they will always have time to get some culture structures up and keep a Cap ship around to quickly get rid of enemy culture (capital ships decrease enemy culture in the system they're in).
Your ships also get a bonus if they are in friendly culture. Advent get more shield mitigation, Vasari get more damage, and TEC get increased anti-matter regeneration. The bonuses get increased if you research along the spread route.
My name was KingsHand and I wanted it changed to either The Dude (my av/sig at the time was the dude) or Kingshand (lowercase H, it just bugged me) and well...you can see the result.
I see, about culture. Well, maybe that's something that'll have more impact in the diplomacy pack. I had seen situations where I would blow the hell out of a planet and then it'd tell me that the previous owners influence is still too great for me to take over (influence with who? the population was zero o.O), but not a situation where a planet went neutral from influence. Ah well, now I know.
It'd be nice if it had some bonus to your own empire, the higher culture the more allegiance or something to that effect. As it stands it's not terribly useful.
So in continuing my series of questions: is there any reason to have more than one trade port/refinery per gravity well?
EDIT: to Tertiee I was under the impression that culture doesn't effect your allegiance at all. Allegiance seems to be determined solely on distance from your capital and other research. Also I think I knew that about ship bonuses but just spaced.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
As it stands culture is a rather subtle component which will probably only make a difference if the match is close.
So, do we have more deadly defensive weapons, better warp lane control and a rebalancing between damage and resilience? Or is the game still broken
2) Defence is much more viable, though you'll still need home fleets to some extent.
8pm GMT, 3pm EST, the Steam group chat room. (here)
All the cool kids will be there.
EDIT: do we have more than just the 4 of us?
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
5 I believe.
DoA, why no Marza?
Next time, as Astns said, actual teams would be cool.
Maybe 2 star systems.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Personal preference. Always grab the Akkan first for rapid expansion purposes. Usually afterwards all I build are Kols, simply because at lvl 1 they are the most survivable Cap Ship. Players see low level cap ships and focus on them so they don't get stronger, and the Kol is best equipped to survive situations like that with it's abilities.
As soon as I wrecked those 8 Cobalts, maybe 12 more jumped in. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but there is no way that the TEC had that kind of a resource jump on me.
Yes it is.
Anyway, I'm up for smaller games whenever if folks want to. 2 or 3 players or really however many people feel like playing at that time. I don't need every game to be a large 6-9 player affair.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
caffron said: "and cat pee is not a laughing matter"
oh god I am not good at battlefield
Man, I need to improve my skills. I can regularly slaughter the AI on Normal, but a Hard AI overwhelms me with an insane volume of Frigates. Maybe I should diversify beyond just Light Frigates? I do love that Advent gets them so cheaply, but it might not be the best strategy.
Is there ANY limit on mines? Seems like I could fill entire gravity wells with the things. :P
Yeah, it's 150 in a well. If you mouse over the mines or the minelayers (I can't remember which) it will tell you how many you have/can have.
EDIT: I just checked and I was wrong. If you mouse over a planet that has mines in the well, it will list them under Logistics Slots. If there are no mines or, maybe mine capable structures, it won't show.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
caffron said: "and cat pee is not a laughing matter"
caffron said: "and cat pee is not a laughing matter"