Also, hopefully you didn't get yourself too well geared with your current guild that it looks like you're treating them as a 'feeder guild'. That's an easy way to burn bridges without even trying, as no one likes to be someone elses stepping stone.
We've had a few people gear up relatively well with my guild only to leave a month later and go to a higher tier guild, and it's usually always had a "hey guys thanks for the wicked loots, now I'm good enough to go with this better guild now, peace fuckers" vibe to it.
I only got 3 epics from Naxx with them. Would that look bad?
They are so bad though >.<
Why does it matter that much what they think? I mean you don't know any of these people personally, you don't need to see them on a daily basis, and there's always /ignore. Whether if it looks bad or not is irrelevant. if you're not having fun leave your guild and join one you will have fun with.
You dont want to completely dick over the guild your leaving as you may want to run PuGs with them in the future. And a players rep can spread like wildfire in this game, you never know when someone from the guild you left runs something with the guild you joined and they start badmouthing you to your new guild.
Reigner on
Exodus Server: Venstra Rei
FFBE: 838,975,107
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Shadow Storm on EU Argent Dawn had a little mixup the other night -- the trash in Naxx 10 was really, really hard, and they took almost two hours to get to the first boss. Looking over the tactics, they couldn't figure out why things weren't working -- until they'd realized that they'd been in the 25-man Naxx the whole time. Clearing Naxx in the normal version, they say, was much easier.
This is my friend's guild, I'm actually pretty impressed they even got to a boss.
edit: Also, this video is fucking awesome, purely for the "une fake glacion" comment in /raid.
Also, hopefully you didn't get yourself too well geared with your current guild that it looks like you're treating them as a 'feeder guild'. That's an easy way to burn bridges without even trying, as no one likes to be someone elses stepping stone.
We've had a few people gear up relatively well with my guild only to leave a month later and go to a higher tier guild, and it's usually always had a "hey guys thanks for the wicked loots, now I'm good enough to go with this better guild now, peace fuckers" vibe to it.
I only got 3 epics from Naxx with them. Would that look bad?
They are so bad though >.<
Why does it matter that much what they think? I mean you don't know any of these people personally, you don't need to see them on a daily basis, and there's always /ignore. Whether if it looks bad or not is irrelevant. if you're not having fun leave your guild and join one you will have fun with.
You dont want to completely dick over the guild your leaving as you may want to run PuGs with them in the future. And a players rep can spread like wildfire in this game, you never know when someone from the guild you left runs something with the guild you joined and they start badmouthing you to your new guild.
Yea, but its not somthing that you need to wring your hands over. In my expirences a simple "Guys i'm joining a diffrent guild to do more endgame progression. Its been fun. See ya!" Works just fine.
So, a good night of raiding for me. Pugged 25 man naxx and cleared everything except kel and sapph, because sleep is good. "Heroic difficulty" my ass, more like "things have 2 times more hp, but still die faster because you have relatively more dps".
Once I get down kel and saph, and do 25 man maylgos, I'll have beaten the game!
Whoever thought it'd be cool to have the only endgame two handed swords in the game both drop from the same fight can die in a fire, though.
25 mans aren't supposed to be harder than the 10mans (infact the inverse is largely true so far), they just require you to wait for 15 more irritating fucks to decide to focus for a few minutes.
25 mans aren't supposed to be harder than the 10mans (infact the inverse is largely true so far), they just require you to wait for 15 more irritating fucks to decide to focus for a few minutes.
Says "heroic difficulty" vs "normal difficulty" and you get better loot from it.
It isn't harder, though, no.
The dude I run pugs with has a pretty good pug leadership style. Pull your weight or get kicked and replaced.
Argh. Six wipes on 1-drake Sarth-10 before we decide to just kill it and take him the normal way. Didn't really help that it was already Christmas Eve in Australia and certain people who clicked Accept on calendar invitations never showed up. Got a few PUGs, but the drake+boss fight seems like it's not to be attempted with less-than-ideal group setups, or less than ideal gear, even with just one of them.
25 mans aren't supposed to be harder than the 10mans (infact the inverse is largely true so far), they just require you to wait for 15 more irritating fucks to decide to focus for a few minutes.
Says "heroic difficulty" vs "normal difficulty" and you get better loot from it.
It isn't harder, though, no.
I'm pretty sure Blizzard even referenced the better loot coming from, at least in part, playing the guild management game with likely over twice as many people, and hopefully requiring significantly more quality personnel, even if proportionally you can carry a few more retards.
Well, except Heigan, who you can apparently 3 man over the course of half an hour just to annoy the fuckers that die on the first wave.
10 mans are more personally challenging, especially for the achievements, but most 25 man content requires significantly more overhead, time and resources.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
25 mans aren't supposed to be harder than the 10mans (infact the inverse is largely true so far), they just require you to wait for 15 more irritating fucks to decide to focus for a few minutes.
Says "heroic difficulty" vs "normal difficulty" and you get better loot from it.
It isn't harder, though, no.
I'm pretty sure Blizzard even referenced the better loot coming from, at least in part, playing the guild management game with likely over twice as many people, and hopefully requiring significantly more quality personnel, even if proportionally you can carry a few more retards.
Well, except Heigan, who you can apparently 3 man over the course of half an hour just to annoy the fuckers that die on the first wave.
10 mans are more personally challenging, especially for the achievements, but most 25 man content requires significantly more overhead, time and resources.
I wonder how the gear will be itemized in the next tier of dungeons. Will 10 man Uldaur be ilevel 213? Will it be the death of 10-25 man Naxx?
For less hardcore guilds, it might just open up a second instance to do (ignoring the 2 "onyxia style" encounters), if the composition isn't quite right for 10 man Uld, or if the T8 content does ramp up in difficulty, 10 man Naxx could remain popular for gearing up new people, building off-spec suits, and for training / building raid cohesion.
If even casual guilds can start getting Naxx10 down to a one night clear, it could easily remain relavent even if the gear isn't absurdly stellar compared to the new stuff.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Shadow Storm on EU Argent Dawn had a little mixup the other night -- the trash in Naxx 10 was really, really hard, and they took almost two hours to get to the first boss. Looking over the tactics, they couldn't figure out why things weren't working -- until they'd realized that they'd been in the 25-man Naxx the whole time. Clearing Naxx in the normal version, they say, was much easier.
This is my friend's guild, I'm actually pretty impressed they even got to a boss.
edit: Also, this video is fucking awesome, purely for the "une fake glacion" comment in /raid.
First weekend in Nax and my guildies had Anub'Rekhan to 60% before our raid leader realised what was wrong.....
I'd love to just get the Malygos fight down and clearing pve content in 2 nights.
We're close, and considering we only raid 3 hours at a time, it's not too shabby.
This would free me up to play my alts I have missed since the exp came out.
Starfuck on
jackfaces
"If you're going to play tiddly winks, play it with man hole covers."
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
we definitely have Maly down on 10man at least...went in there and oneshot it tonight, then headed to Naxx, oneshot everything in there, then did Sarth. No drakes, but its nice to have everything cleared Christmas Eve. Now I can do whatever i want for christmas and then relax when i log on instead of being pestered for raids.
My first raid on naxx is supposed to be friday, but I suspect it's not going to happen. We have 10 people exactly who can go, with no room for flexibility, and several of them are already saying since it is the day after christmas they don't know if they'll be able to make it.
But I've still been trying to prep the guild for it. Got a big post on our forums with all the tankspot videos, and trying to make sure everyone watches them so everyone has a base knowledge of the bosses. I expect quite a few wipes, but we're definitely not a hardcore guild and it is to be expected.
10 mans are more personally challenging, especially for the achievements, but most 25 man content requires significantly more overhead, time and resources.
Sometimes the "heroic" part comes in with slightly different mechanics but not usually (see: Razuvious orbs vs "hope you brought two priests", something about Faerlina adds that I don't even remember because we ignore them now, etc). But yeah it's strange how there's like dueling mentalities when it comes to ten mans. We keep having this guild arguments about whether people can just make their own ten man groups, or we have to have mass invites and split groups around, and some are like "Well if you can do 25 mans with these people why can't you do ten mans?" Because ten mans only have ten people, and 25 mans you can bring a few idiots and the rest of the competent or excellent players can make up for it. But in ten mans? If you happen to have two shitty DPS and a shitty healer? Or a severely undergeared tank? Or no replenishment? It's fucking annoying and I don't want to be there for that.
they just have a hard time coming up with anything thats difficult and still only requires 5 people. simplest things become much harder when you have 25 people in the same room
5's are just too small in a game with 10 classes, 30 trees and 30+ specs (varience between "feral bear" and "feral kitty", for example). All you can really assume is "one tank, one healer, three dps", with some rare encounters shaking that up a bit. Perhaps dual-specs might allow a bit more creativity in 5 mans, but you can't really have encounters that require a class. Perhaps some that allow the rare class or spec ability to shine, but it'd have to be minimal, and preferably replacable with the right profession item (see: Shattered Halls' pre-gauntlet gate).
10 is the perfect group size currently, because while you might not always have 1 of each class, you can at least aim for it. With dual-specs, you could have up to 4 tanks at a time, and/or 4 healers, and or 10 dps. It offers great flexability for group makeup while having just enough space to either expect some specific class(es) either for encounters, or just to make them easier.
I'd love to see 10's tuned to both accept just about any "1.5-2 tank, 1.5-2 or 3 healer, a bunch of dps" group, while allowing for unique class or even talent spec abilities to shine (a pickable door here, a brief part where a hunter's pet dashes into a small space to open up an alternate route there, a little MC'ing, an item or mob that's deathgrip'able, etc). Of course, balancing this across varrying playstyles, gear levels and personal aptitude across 11 million players is impossible, but a man can dream.
Bluntly, having played the 40 man game for 2 years, and the 25 man game for 2 years, yes, I'm fine with an extra bone being thrown to anyone who has the time and effort to play that game.
ilevel 200 gear is not so vastly worse than ilevel 213 gear that it's worth sweating, especially if T8 (and I would expect, T9) continue the tradition of leaving the best of the best 10 man'ers only roughly 1 tier behind the best of the best 25 man'ers. Having that extra 15 people in the group and likely 10-15 or more extra people on the roster and juggling schedules and a loot system (10 mans are /roll or GTFO) and shifting people (moreso, at least) for bosses because they're sitting so ____ can get gear/experience but oh they just want this one rare drop...
25 man's are 2.5x as many people, but are (in my experience and opinion) significantly more than 2.5x the time, work and effort.
Current 10 man shenanigans aside, but I expect those'll die down in a few weeks or months as it goes from "omg upgrades!" to "yeah, sure, whatever, I'm done, you go, I'm gonna pvp/nap/faptonelfpron".
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Ok we can down maly but our main problem comes in phase 2, some of our people just die in 1 shot from the overhead casters, so I'm guessing its during the run from 1 bubble to another, is there anything that can be done bout that?
5's are just too small in a game with 10 classes, 30 trees and 30+ specs (varience between "feral bear" and "feral kitty", for example). All you can really assume is "one tank, one healer, three dps", with some rare encounters shaking that up a bit. Perhaps dual-specs might allow a bit more creativity in 5 mans, but you can't really have encounters that require a class. Perhaps some that allow the rare class or spec ability to shine, but it'd have to be minimal, and preferably replacable with the right profession item (see: Shattered Halls' pre-gauntlet gate).
10 is the perfect group size currently, because while you might not always have 1 of each class, you can at least aim for it. With dual-specs, you could have up to 4 tanks at a time, and/or 4 healers, and or 10 dps. It offers great flexability for group makeup while having just enough space to either expect some specific class(es) either for encounters, or just to make them easier.
I'd love to see 10's tuned to both accept just about any "1.5-2 tank, 1.5-2 or 3 healer, a bunch of dps" group, while allowing for unique class or even talent spec abilities to shine (a pickable door here, a brief part where a hunter's pet dashes into a small space to open up an alternate route there, a little MC'ing, an item or mob that's deathgrip'able, etc). Of course, balancing this across varrying playstyles, gear levels and personal aptitude across 11 million players is impossible, but a man can dream.
Bluntly, having played the 40 man game for 2 years, and the 25 man game for 2 years, yes, I'm fine with an extra bone being thrown to anyone who has the time and effort to play that game.
ilevel 200 gear is not so vastly worse than ilevel 213 gear that it's worth sweating, especially if T8 (and I would expect, T9) continue the tradition of leaving the best of the best 10 man'ers only roughly 1 tier behind the best of the best 25 man'ers. Having that extra 15 people in the group and likely 10-15 or more extra people on the roster and juggling schedules and a loot system (10 mans are /roll or GTFO) and shifting people (moreso, at least) for bosses because they're sitting so ____ can get gear/experience but oh they just want this one rare drop...
25 man's are 2.5x as many people, but are (in my experience and opinion) significantly more than 2.5x the time, work and effort.
Current 10 man shenanigans aside, but I expect those'll die down in a few weeks or months as it goes from "omg upgrades!" to "yeah, sure, whatever, I'm done, you go, I'm gonna pvp/nap/faptonelfpron".
With the advent of farming 25 man naxx, 10 mans are already like that for my guild. I finally get to go, winning by default yay!
Ok we can down maly but our main problem comes in phase 2, some of our people just die in 1 shot from the overhead casters, so I'm guessing its during the run from 1 bubble to another, is there anything that can be done bout that?
I've only killed Malygos once, but my guess would be that a priest (even a shadow one) using shields to help the healers would be of immense help for that phase, along with HoT's while moving of course, and perhaps setting up to make sure that you don't have all your healers moving at the same time, as that usually limits most non-tree healing options a fair bit.
Alternatively; tell your dps to stop fapping over their AP/Spell Power/Crit numbers and pick up some damned stamina?
With the advent of farming 25 man naxx, 10 mans are already like that for my guild. I finally get to go, winning by default yay!
I enjoy the fapping as much as anyone.
Far as I know, the only thing my guild's raid crew hasn't done so far is the 3 drake fight on 10 or 25 man. The main problem with 10 man spots currently is that the "A Team" hand picked Achievement crew takes a lot of the best people (especially tanks and healers), and there aren't many tank/healer alts to help round out later crews. We seem to end up with the A-Team doing their own clique thing (yes, yes, boo, hiss, I know), a B-Team forming up with whoever they can get, and then anyone not in those already limited spots either PuGs, tries to slip in for something they want or need, or sits on their thumbs.
As a non-full raiding member, I do a lot of the thumb sitting while the achievement group gets their shit together and the alts work their way to 80.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Trust me, I am the guy who calls people out and tells them they are bad, and yell at our raid leader mage who asked for blessing of wisdom instead of kings and dies to the cyclone.
Also i guess its just bad luck with the shields being put down all the way across the arena.
And Kel'thuzad last week was a bitch, 2 healers, 6 melee.
we had me as a prot pally off healing people who get blocked and a DK attacking from range till one of the other melee died.
I grab the adds when they spawn and essentially 8-9 man him.
I don't really know the fight, but, sounds like a job for the warlocks new 'teleport' spell.
It *could* help, but it's just as likely that it won't. The shields are placed randomly around the terrain. Realistically, even if the shield placement is far you're not going to be standing out from under them for more than a couple seconds.
With the advent of farming 25 man naxx, 10 mans are already like that for my guild. I finally get to go, winning by default yay!
I enjoy the fapping as much as anyone.
Far as I know, the only thing my guild's raid crew hasn't done so far is the 3 drake fight on 10 or 25 man. The main problem with 10 man spots currently is that the "A Team" hand picked Achievement crew takes a lot of the best people (especially tanks and healers), and there aren't many tank/healer alts to help round out later crews. We seem to end up with the A-Team doing their own clique thing (yes, yes, boo, hiss, I know), a B-Team forming up with whoever they can get, and then anyone not in those already limited spots either PuGs, tries to slip in for something they want or need, or sits on their thumbs.
As a non-full raiding member, I do a lot of the thumb sitting while the achievement group gets their shit together and the alts work their way to 80.
I think pretty much every guild has that problem. In 4 years of playing I am in the best guild I have ever been in and we still have that problem.
A major contributor to it now is that hybrids, especially paladins, are so fucking flexible if you have a pally heavy guild (like the one I am in), well that's pretty much the end of it. Then two of the officers rolled DK's so there goes most hopes of a DPS slot. Fuck it.
I wish that Blizzard would create some sort of organizing apparatus for 10 man content apart from "the guild", just as Arena teams exist to organize arena matches. There is a lot of stigma associated with organized cross-guild 10 man runs, I find. A lot of people I know left their guilds to form new "10 man guilds" rather than just stay put and organize across guilds.
I don't really know the fight, but, sounds like a job for the warlocks new 'teleport' spell.
This would require the warlock to run into the bubble, plant his circle and then run back out of the bubble and teleport in.
I, not knowing the fight, assumed the bubbles appeared in pre-set locations, meaning that the warlock could plant his circle in one of the known locations in advance, which would help a little.
Edit: Watching the video for malygos, it looks like demonic circle would be useful to negate fall damage, but, that's pretty much it.
With the advent of farming 25 man naxx, 10 mans are already like that for my guild. I finally get to go, winning by default yay!
I enjoy the fapping as much as anyone.
Far as I know, the only thing my guild's raid crew hasn't done so far is the 3 drake fight on 10 or 25 man. The main problem with 10 man spots currently is that the "A Team" hand picked Achievement crew takes a lot of the best people (especially tanks and healers), and there aren't many tank/healer alts to help round out later crews. We seem to end up with the A-Team doing their own clique thing (yes, yes, boo, hiss, I know), a B-Team forming up with whoever they can get, and then anyone not in those already limited spots either PuGs, tries to slip in for something they want or need, or sits on their thumbs.
As a non-full raiding member, I do a lot of the thumb sitting while the achievement group gets their shit together and the alts work their way to 80.
I think pretty much every guild has that problem. In 4 years of playing I am in the best guild I have ever been in and we still have that problem.
A major contributor to it now is that hybrids, especially paladins, are so fucking flexible if you have a pally heavy guild (like the one I am in), well that's pretty much the end of it. Then two of the officers rolled DK's so there goes most hopes of a DPS slot. Fuck it.
I wish that Blizzard would create some sort of organizing apparatus for 10 man content apart from "the guild", just as Arena teams exist to organize arena matches. There is a lot of stigma associated with organized cross-guild 10 man runs, I find. A lot of people I know left their guilds to form new "10 man guilds" rather than just stay put and organize across guilds.
I run with a channel based raiding organization. There's several "officers" who organize the runs, invite the core players, and handle loot. The majority of the raids are just people invited in when the raid leaders say "find me some of class x".
Sort of thing likely wouldn't work if content were as challenging as old content, but as easy as it is, organized pugging works fine.
It started as a channel based around farming pvp gear, but since it took so long to introduce pvp content, the channel instead became a raiding channel. Thats just for 25s though, I run 10s with my guild, which only has like 12 people in it.
DisruptorX2 on
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
With the advent of farming 25 man naxx, 10 mans are already like that for my guild. I finally get to go, winning by default yay!
I enjoy the fapping as much as anyone.
Far as I know, the only thing my guild's raid crew hasn't done so far is the 3 drake fight on 10 or 25 man. The main problem with 10 man spots currently is that the "A Team" hand picked Achievement crew takes a lot of the best people (especially tanks and healers), and there aren't many tank/healer alts to help round out later crews. We seem to end up with the A-Team doing their own clique thing (yes, yes, boo, hiss, I know), a B-Team forming up with whoever they can get, and then anyone not in those already limited spots either PuGs, tries to slip in for something they want or need, or sits on their thumbs.
As a non-full raiding member, I do a lot of the thumb sitting while the achievement group gets their shit together and the alts work their way to 80.
I think pretty much every guild has that problem. In 4 years of playing I am in the best guild I have ever been in and we still have that problem.
A major contributor to it now is that hybrids, especially paladins, are so fucking flexible if you have a pally heavy guild (like the one I am in), well that's pretty much the end of it. Then two of the officers rolled DK's so there goes most hopes of a DPS slot. Fuck it.
I wish that Blizzard would create some sort of organizing apparatus for 10 man content apart from "the guild", just as Arena teams exist to organize arena matches. There is a lot of stigma associated with organized cross-guild 10 man runs, I find. A lot of people I know left their guilds to form new "10 man guilds" rather than just stay put and organize across guilds.
I run with a channel based raiding organization. There's several "officers" who organize the runs, invite the core players, and handle loot. The majority of the raids are just people invited in when the raid leaders say "find me some of class x".
Sort of thing likely wouldn't work if content were as challenging as old content, but as easy as it is, organized pugging works fine.
It started as a channel based around farming pvp gear, but since it took so long to introduce pvp content, the channel instead became a raiding channel. Thats just for 25s though, I run 10s with my guild, which only has like 12 people in it.
When I started raiding, I was part of a metaguild. We got up to Rags before poor leadership shattered it. This was back when you had your paladins, who could avoid standing in fire, running around doing in combat rezzing.
The problem is that WoW isn't mechanically challenging. It's fundamentally a numbers game; fight strats are known, and a mildly ridiculous amount of thought has gone into how to best conquer them. So really the one way that Blizzard can increase difficulty in a meaningful way is to increase the numbers involved in whichever way. And as the mathmatical standard gets more demanding, it gets more demanding of specificity in role, in class, in whatever else. And that's not something people like, because it starts to become exclusionary for classes that the raid has an abundance of or that simply don't measure up.
You can say this is a balancing issue that blizzard should fix and maybe you're right, and you can see them sort of trying to account for it with class homogenization, but precedent and experience tells us that they'll probably never get it entirely correct. That means that they can either design content that's challenging given that environment (i.e. sunwell), or they can design content that's accessible.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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You dont want to completely dick over the guild your leaving as you may want to run PuGs with them in the future. And a players rep can spread like wildfire in this game, you never know when someone from the guild you left runs something with the guild you joined and they start badmouthing you to your new guild.
FFBE: 838,975,107
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This is my friend's guild, I'm actually pretty impressed they even got to a boss.
edit: Also, this video is fucking awesome, purely for the "une fake glacion" comment in /raid.
Yea, but its not somthing that you need to wring your hands over. In my expirences a simple "Guys i'm joining a diffrent guild to do more endgame progression. Its been fun. See ya!" Works just fine.
Once I get down kel and saph, and do 25 man maylgos, I'll have beaten the game!
Whoever thought it'd be cool to have the only endgame two handed swords in the game both drop from the same fight can die in a fire, though.
Says "heroic difficulty" vs "normal difficulty" and you get better loot from it.
It isn't harder, though, no.
The dude I run pugs with has a pretty good pug leadership style. Pull your weight or get kicked and replaced.
I'm pretty sure Blizzard even referenced the better loot coming from, at least in part, playing the guild management game with likely over twice as many people, and hopefully requiring significantly more quality personnel, even if proportionally you can carry a few more retards.
Well, except Heigan, who you can apparently 3 man over the course of half an hour just to annoy the fuckers that die on the first wave.
10 mans are more personally challenging, especially for the achievements, but most 25 man content requires significantly more overhead, time and resources.
We think he's a robot.
I wonder how the gear will be itemized in the next tier of dungeons. Will 10 man Uldaur be ilevel 213? Will it be the death of 10-25 man Naxx?
For less hardcore guilds, it might just open up a second instance to do (ignoring the 2 "onyxia style" encounters), if the composition isn't quite right for 10 man Uld, or if the T8 content does ramp up in difficulty, 10 man Naxx could remain popular for gearing up new people, building off-spec suits, and for training / building raid cohesion.
If even casual guilds can start getting Naxx10 down to a one night clear, it could easily remain relavent even if the gear isn't absurdly stellar compared to the new stuff.
First weekend in Nax and my guildies had Anub'Rekhan to 60% before our raid leader realised what was wrong.....
we gave those guys some shit about it
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
If they re-itemize and get ride of all this haste crap that no one seems to like, it might be worth it just from that alone.
I like haste...
We're close, and considering we only raid 3 hours at a time, it's not too shabby.
This would free me up to play my alts I have missed since the exp came out.
"If you're going to play tiddly winks, play it with man hole covers."
- John McCallum
But I've still been trying to prep the guild for it. Got a big post on our forums with all the tankspot videos, and trying to make sure everyone watches them so everyone has a base knowledge of the bosses. I expect quite a few wipes, but we're definitely not a hardcore guild and it is to be expected.
Sometimes the "heroic" part comes in with slightly different mechanics but not usually (see: Razuvious orbs vs "hope you brought two priests", something about Faerlina adds that I don't even remember because we ignore them now, etc). But yeah it's strange how there's like dueling mentalities when it comes to ten mans. We keep having this guild arguments about whether people can just make their own ten man groups, or we have to have mass invites and split groups around, and some are like "Well if you can do 25 mans with these people why can't you do ten mans?" Because ten mans only have ten people, and 25 mans you can bring a few idiots and the rest of the competent or excellent players can make up for it. But in ten mans? If you happen to have two shitty DPS and a shitty healer? Or a severely undergeared tank? Or no replenishment? It's fucking annoying and I don't want to be there for that.
Well, if the gear were the same... who would want to deal with the drama of getting and keeping 25 people happy?
Just saying.
10 is the perfect group size currently, because while you might not always have 1 of each class, you can at least aim for it. With dual-specs, you could have up to 4 tanks at a time, and/or 4 healers, and or 10 dps. It offers great flexability for group makeup while having just enough space to either expect some specific class(es) either for encounters, or just to make them easier.
I'd love to see 10's tuned to both accept just about any "1.5-2 tank, 1.5-2 or 3 healer, a bunch of dps" group, while allowing for unique class or even talent spec abilities to shine (a pickable door here, a brief part where a hunter's pet dashes into a small space to open up an alternate route there, a little MC'ing, an item or mob that's deathgrip'able, etc). Of course, balancing this across varrying playstyles, gear levels and personal aptitude across 11 million players is impossible, but a man can dream.
Bluntly, having played the 40 man game for 2 years, and the 25 man game for 2 years, yes, I'm fine with an extra bone being thrown to anyone who has the time and effort to play that game.
ilevel 200 gear is not so vastly worse than ilevel 213 gear that it's worth sweating, especially if T8 (and I would expect, T9) continue the tradition of leaving the best of the best 10 man'ers only roughly 1 tier behind the best of the best 25 man'ers. Having that extra 15 people in the group and likely 10-15 or more extra people on the roster and juggling schedules and a loot system (10 mans are /roll or GTFO) and shifting people (moreso, at least) for bosses because they're sitting so ____ can get gear/experience but oh they just want this one rare drop...
25 man's are 2.5x as many people, but are (in my experience and opinion) significantly more than 2.5x the time, work and effort.
Current 10 man shenanigans aside, but I expect those'll die down in a few weeks or months as it goes from "omg upgrades!" to "yeah, sure, whatever, I'm done, you go, I'm gonna pvp/nap/faptonelfpron".
With the advent of farming 25 man naxx, 10 mans are already like that for my guild. I finally get to go, winning by default yay!
I enjoy the fapping as much as anyone.
I've only killed Malygos once, but my guess would be that a priest (even a shadow one) using shields to help the healers would be of immense help for that phase, along with HoT's while moving of course, and perhaps setting up to make sure that you don't have all your healers moving at the same time, as that usually limits most non-tree healing options a fair bit.
Alternatively; tell your dps to stop fapping over their AP/Spell Power/Crit numbers and pick up some damned stamina?
Far as I know, the only thing my guild's raid crew hasn't done so far is the 3 drake fight on 10 or 25 man. The main problem with 10 man spots currently is that the "A Team" hand picked Achievement crew takes a lot of the best people (especially tanks and healers), and there aren't many tank/healer alts to help round out later crews. We seem to end up with the A-Team doing their own clique thing (yes, yes, boo, hiss, I know), a B-Team forming up with whoever they can get, and then anyone not in those already limited spots either PuGs, tries to slip in for something they want or need, or sits on their thumbs.
As a non-full raiding member, I do a lot of the thumb sitting while the achievement group gets their shit together and the alts work their way to 80.
Trust me, I am the guy who calls people out and tells them they are bad, and yell at our raid leader mage who asked for blessing of wisdom instead of kings and dies to the cyclone.
Also i guess its just bad luck with the shields being put down all the way across the arena.
And Kel'thuzad last week was a bitch, 2 healers, 6 melee.
we had me as a prot pally off healing people who get blocked and a DK attacking from range till one of the other melee died.
I grab the adds when they spawn and essentially 8-9 man him.
It *could* help, but it's just as likely that it won't. The shields are placed randomly around the terrain. Realistically, even if the shield placement is far you're not going to be standing out from under them for more than a couple seconds.
I think pretty much every guild has that problem. In 4 years of playing I am in the best guild I have ever been in and we still have that problem.
A major contributor to it now is that hybrids, especially paladins, are so fucking flexible if you have a pally heavy guild (like the one I am in), well that's pretty much the end of it. Then two of the officers rolled DK's so there goes most hopes of a DPS slot. Fuck it.
I wish that Blizzard would create some sort of organizing apparatus for 10 man content apart from "the guild", just as Arena teams exist to organize arena matches. There is a lot of stigma associated with organized cross-guild 10 man runs, I find. A lot of people I know left their guilds to form new "10 man guilds" rather than just stay put and organize across guilds.
This would require the warlock to run into the bubble, plant his circle and then run back out of the bubble and teleport in.
Edit: Demonic circle needs to plantable at range, like an AoE spell.
I, not knowing the fight, assumed the bubbles appeared in pre-set locations, meaning that the warlock could plant his circle in one of the known locations in advance, which would help a little.
Edit: Watching the video for malygos, it looks like demonic circle would be useful to negate fall damage, but, that's pretty much it.
I run with a channel based raiding organization. There's several "officers" who organize the runs, invite the core players, and handle loot. The majority of the raids are just people invited in when the raid leaders say "find me some of class x".
Sort of thing likely wouldn't work if content were as challenging as old content, but as easy as it is, organized pugging works fine.
It started as a channel based around farming pvp gear, but since it took so long to introduce pvp content, the channel instead became a raiding channel. Thats just for 25s though, I run 10s with my guild, which only has like 12 people in it.
When I started raiding, I was part of a metaguild. We got up to Rags before poor leadership shattered it. This was back when you had your paladins, who could avoid standing in fire, running around doing in combat rezzing.
You can say this is a balancing issue that blizzard should fix and maybe you're right, and you can see them sort of trying to account for it with class homogenization, but precedent and experience tells us that they'll probably never get it entirely correct. That means that they can either design content that's challenging given that environment (i.e. sunwell), or they can design content that's accessible.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat