What's the best way to handle Kel'Thuzad on 10-man? the bastard just seems to have a real random element than can just kill a 10-man since there are only so many tanks and healers, and his freeze thingy is being bullshit. granted, nobody is getting chain freezed or Mana Detonating on people, so our spacing is great, and we can get him to phase 3 at under a million health, but we keep ending up having one of our tanks or healers getting frozen and it fucks everything up.
One time, we got screwed by oone of our 2 healers getting frozen, and thus one side couldn't get heals. another time our Icecrown Guardian tank got frozen, and Guardians start eating Healers and DPS. is it like fucking Prince Malchazarr and it's completely on luck?
Everyone should be in range of both healers and the second tank should pick up both adds and tank them somewhere so he is also in range of both healers. If a healer gets frost blasted then the other healer heals them, if the second tank gets frost blasted then you just heal him more since he can't avoid blows and this would be a good time for the MT to use a cooldown to reduce damage. I don't see how there's any luck involved in the fight except that its slightly harder if a tank gets frost blasted. Also hybrids that have instant heals can help by healing frost blasted targets, but its not exactly necessary. You can also avoid the second tank + frost blast issue by having the MT tank KT + adds, which works, but requires you to not take forever as the soft enrage will actually start to matter if you take to long.
khain on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
If you're running with two healers, and one gets blasted, you just need to make sure the second healer is skilled enough to keep the guardian tank, the MT, and the frostblasted healer alive.
And if the guardian tank gets frostblasted, you need to make sure he's in range of both healers as he'll need big heals.
Personally, I prefer solo-tanking the adds as the MT. MT can't get frostblasted, no troubles.
One time, we got screwed by oone of our 2 healers getting frozen, and thus one side couldn't get heals.
That sounds like your raid was TOO spread out... You can be spread out without using the whole room, everyone can be in range of everyone else basically.
riz on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Well, what seems to be getting the healers moreso than Frost Blast, seems to be Detonate Mana. Our holy priest got some really unlucky detonates and lost a lot of Mana and could not throw out the big heals the guardian tank needed. keep in mind we're extremely ulitity light, as we don't have a Shaman for lust/Mana Totems, and we are generally light on replenishment, as we have no Shadow Priests, and it's hard to convince our Retadin to come.
Clawshrimpy on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Yeah, we don't require all of our members to raid, ie. we only do 10-man because we realise our players like to do other things, like PvP in the case of the retadin. we're a damn RP guild.
6 minute maly tries again tonight. Hope we get it. At the least from this point on it will take me a minimum of 2 weeks to finish Glory of the Raider if everything goes perfect. I have both OS achievements (Gonna Go When the Volcano Blows, and The Twilight Zone), both EoE (You Don't Have an Eternity, and A Poke In the Eye), and 3 left in Naxx (The Dedicated Few/Subtraction, and the Undying). That just about lines me up for completion when 3.1 is planned to be released. I'm really hoping though for a delay in the release to give me more time to finish Glory. Sarth 3D 10 man is the major roadblock right now.
Yeah, make sure both tanks are in range of both healers at all time. Other than that make sure the melee DPS is a triangle and as far from the MT as possible. And remember that you just need 1 heal to live through a tomb, usually (though a quick top-off never hurt, what with that frostbolt volley).
Theres news on mmo champ saying the Devs are planning the release date for the beginning of april, but itsd likely to be pushed back.
One last thing, the background downloader is now downloading the first part of Patch 3.1. This isn't very surprising, according to this official post, the current goal is to have the patch released at the beginning of April, however nothing is sure and devs are already thinking about the possibility to postpone the Noblegarden event if they can't make it on time.
and here is the dev post they were referring to.
The current plan is to delay Noblegarden should the testing process run long. You should be able to get your week of egg-hunting in.
And for those of you not looking forward to the egg-hunting of Noblegarden... I think you'll find it a wee bit different this year.
Zephyranthes91 on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
I hope they are accurate in their patch predictions.
My guild is planning to raid all Wednesday during the day and at night to complete 10man Ulduar Yogg-Saron Hardmode and Algalon in order to get both realm first achievements, and I want to be a a part of it, so I need a day off work.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
If you don't feel like raiding then why try to raid at all?
I don't get that. Sure, sometimes I don't feel like logging on to clear Naxx in a couple hours for umpteenth time, but I do it anyway because it will massively inconvenience the guild if I do not.
If you don't feel like raiding then why try to raid at all?
I don't get that. Sure, sometimes I don't feel like logging on to clear Naxx in a couple hours for umpteenth time, but I do it anyway because it will massively inconvenience the guild if I do not.
that particular dude isn't raiding at all
you make this game sound like a labour camp
Little Jim on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
If you don't feel like raiding then why try to raid at all?
I don't get that. Sure, sometimes I don't feel like logging on to clear Naxx in a couple hours for umpteenth time, but I do it anyway because it will massively inconvenience the guild if I do not.
that particular dude isn't raiding at all
you make this game sound like a labour camp
What are you talking about, this game IS a labour camp. You work and work and work for little to no reward most of the time.
Zephyranthes91 on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
the times when you do get the reward make it all worthwhile
first kill of Rag
first kill of Kael'thas
first kill of Illidan
first kill of KJ, i imagine (though I never experienced it)
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2009
mmm archimonde didnt so much feel joy as relief
that the pack of 24 other retards you'd been raiding with had managed to breathe through their nose long enough to avoid fire, click tears, and decurse.
If you don't feel like raiding then why try to raid at all?
I don't get that. Sure, sometimes I don't feel like logging on to clear Naxx in a couple hours for umpteenth time, but I do it anyway because it will massively inconvenience the guild if I do not.
Casual raiders and hardcore raiders have two entirely different mindsets that are both totally fine in their own environment. There isn't really any point to a debate between the two. :P
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
It's the same mechanic. On 40 man it was highest HP out of number 2, 3, or 4 on threat. Some guilds did not run 3 OTs though, so you ran the risk of losing melee if tanks weren't topped off.
You could not be more incorrect. I used to be the 4th tank and the requirements were: Stand in melee range, auto-attack, press shield block. That's it. They simply refined the mechanic for Wrath to make it more consistent (just like they fixed the throws on Thaddius, Decimate buggyness on Gluth, Noth's teleport, Horsemen auras, etc.)
Old Patchwerk was 100% based on health and (presumably) only gave threat to the MT when attacking them or by use of a fixate mechanic. Patchwerk used to be really buggy when first pulled for the first 5-10 seconds of the fight, and you could very easily swap MTs, usually by accident. Assuming he did use a delayed fixate mechanic, I don't see why a Fire mage rolling 30k+ ignite ticks wouldn't be able to pull aggro eventually, even abilities like Fade and Mirror Images have static values associated with them. Doing over 6k DPS as a Fire Mage back in the day wasn't unheard of because of how ignite worked.
A) I edited in something to clarify, you might want to read that.
Casual raiders and hardcore raiders have two entirely different mindsets that are both totally fine in their own environment. There isn't really any point to a debate between the two. :P
Don't forget the trying-too-hard-to-prove-I'm-hardcore raiders....
It's the same mechanic. On 40 man it was highest HP out of number 2, 3, or 4 on threat. Some guilds did not run 3 OTs though, so you ran the risk of losing melee if tanks weren't topped off.
You could not be more incorrect. I used to be the 4th tank and the requirements were: Stand in melee range, auto-attack, press shield block. That's it. They simply refined the mechanic for Wrath to make it more consistent (just like they fixed the throws on Thaddius, Decimate buggyness on Gluth, Noth's teleport, Horsemen auras, etc.)
Old Patchwerk was 100% based on health and (presumably) only gave threat to the MT when attacking them or by use of a fixate mechanic. Patchwerk used to be really buggy when first pulled for the first 5-10 seconds of the fight, and you could very easily swap MTs, usually by accident. Assuming he did use a delayed fixate mechanic, I don't see why a Fire mage rolling 30k+ ignite ticks wouldn't be able to pull aggro eventually, even abilities like Fade and Mirror Images have static values associated with them. Doing over 6k DPS as a Fire Mage back in the day wasn't unheard of because of how ignite worked.
A) I edited in something to clarify, you might want to read that.
The first clear of naxx in this expansion went to a pug of the people who were 80 4 days after the expansion. I damn well hope Ulduar is a greater challenge.
EDIT; on my server forgive me its spring break and im drinking heavily.
Branu on
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
It's the same mechanic. On 40 man it was highest HP out of number 2, 3, or 4 on threat. Some guilds did not run 3 OTs though, so you ran the risk of losing melee if tanks weren't topped off.
You could not be more incorrect. I used to be the 4th tank and the requirements were: Stand in melee range, auto-attack, press shield block. That's it. They simply refined the mechanic for Wrath to make it more consistent (just like they fixed the throws on Thaddius, Decimate buggyness on Gluth, Noth's teleport, Horsemen auras, etc.)
Old Patchwerk was 100% based on health and (presumably) only gave threat to the MT when attacking them or by use of a fixate mechanic. Patchwerk used to be really buggy when first pulled for the first 5-10 seconds of the fight, and you could very easily swap MTs, usually by accident. Assuming he did use a delayed fixate mechanic, I don't see why a Fire mage rolling 30k+ ignite ticks wouldn't be able to pull aggro eventually, even abilities like Fade and Mirror Images have static values associated with them. Doing over 6k DPS as a Fire Mage back in the day wasn't unheard of because of how ignite worked.
A) I edited in something to clarify, you might want to read that.
Threatening means that it's literally on the threat table, I believe. Some people cheesed PW by banishing doomguards next to him back in the day.
It seems rather dubious that a spell description would make a distinction between "in combat with the boss" and not, because I don't think there's a way to be fighting the boss and not on his threat table. This leads me to believe that it's more than just "in combat with the boss."
Regardless, the fact that patchwerk would choose to kill an off tank if all 3 off tanks were at low health instead of a melee at full health pretty much proves the "primed list" theory.
Also, why would patchwerk hit a doomguard if it's banished, because if that's the case then it ISN'T enslaved by the warlock.
The first clear of naxx in this expansion went to a pug of the people who were 80 4 days after the expansion. I damn well hope Ulduar is a greater challenge.
EDIT; on my server forgive me its spring break and im drinking heavily.
I hope it's an incremental increase in difficulty, and Blizzard continues the trend of giving the dick measuring population an option at the same fights with more difficult mechanics.
The first clear of naxx in this expansion went to a pug of the people who were 80 4 days after the expansion. I damn well hope Ulduar is a greater challenge.
EDIT; on my server forgive me its spring break and im drinking heavily.
The new realm-first titles/achievements are for hard mode stuff, not just plowing through with a pug like Obsidian Slayer, so at least there's that.
riz on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The first clear of naxx in this expansion went to a pug of the people who were 80 4 days after the expansion. I damn well hope Ulduar is a greater challenge.
EDIT; on my server forgive me its spring break and im drinking heavily.
that was also a recycled instance from level 60 for which 90% of the strategies remained current.
oh, and it had been being cleared for 2 months frequently on beta.
I wish people would stop citing the fast clear time of Naxx like it actually meant something. The hardest part of being the first guild to clear Naxx on your server was having 25 people who had enough spare time to get to 80 that fast.
Dhalphir on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
It's the same mechanic. On 40 man it was highest HP out of number 2, 3, or 4 on threat. Some guilds did not run 3 OTs though, so you ran the risk of losing melee if tanks weren't topped off.
You could not be more incorrect. I used to be the 4th tank and the requirements were: Stand in melee range, auto-attack, press shield block. That's it. They simply refined the mechanic for Wrath to make it more consistent (just like they fixed the throws on Thaddius, Decimate buggyness on Gluth, Noth's teleport, Horsemen auras, etc.)
Old Patchwerk was 100% based on health and (presumably) only gave threat to the MT when attacking them or by use of a fixate mechanic. Patchwerk used to be really buggy when first pulled for the first 5-10 seconds of the fight, and you could very easily swap MTs, usually by accident. Assuming he did use a delayed fixate mechanic, I don't see why a Fire mage rolling 30k+ ignite ticks wouldn't be able to pull aggro eventually, even abilities like Fade and Mirror Images have static values associated with them. Doing over 6k DPS as a Fire Mage back in the day wasn't unheard of because of how ignite worked.
A) I edited in something to clarify, you might want to read that.
Threatening means that it's literally on the threat table, I believe. Some people cheesed PW by banishing doomguards next to him back in the day.
It seems rather dubious that a spell description would make a distinction between "in combat with the boss" and not, because I don't think there's a way to be fighting the boss and not on his threat table. This leads me to believe that it's more than just "in combat with the boss."
Regardless, the fact that patchwerk would choose to kill an off tank if all 3 off tanks were at low health instead of a melee at full health pretty much proves the "primed list" theory.
Also, why would patchwerk hit a doomguard if it's banished, because if that's the case then it ISN'T enslaved by the warlock.
its largely irrelevant how it worked at 60, what matters is how it works now, and its based on threat, then HP among those threat targets.
Dhalphir on
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
It's the same mechanic. On 40 man it was highest HP out of number 2, 3, or 4 on threat. Some guilds did not run 3 OTs though, so you ran the risk of losing melee if tanks weren't topped off.
You could not be more incorrect. I used to be the 4th tank and the requirements were: Stand in melee range, auto-attack, press shield block. That's it. They simply refined the mechanic for Wrath to make it more consistent (just like they fixed the throws on Thaddius, Decimate buggyness on Gluth, Noth's teleport, Horsemen auras, etc.)
Old Patchwerk was 100% based on health and (presumably) only gave threat to the MT when attacking them or by use of a fixate mechanic. Patchwerk used to be really buggy when first pulled for the first 5-10 seconds of the fight, and you could very easily swap MTs, usually by accident. Assuming he did use a delayed fixate mechanic, I don't see why a Fire mage rolling 30k+ ignite ticks wouldn't be able to pull aggro eventually, even abilities like Fade and Mirror Images have static values associated with them. Doing over 6k DPS as a Fire Mage back in the day wasn't unheard of because of how ignite worked.
A) I edited in something to clarify, you might want to read that.
Threatening means that it's literally on the threat table, I believe. Some people cheesed PW by banishing doomguards next to him back in the day.
It seems rather dubious that a spell description would make a distinction between "in combat with the boss" and not, because I don't think there's a way to be fighting the boss and not on his threat table. This leads me to believe that it's more than just "in combat with the boss."
Regardless, the fact that patchwerk would choose to kill an off tank if all 3 off tanks were at low health instead of a melee at full health pretty much proves the "primed list" theory.
Also, why would patchwerk hit a doomguard if it's banished, because if that's the case then it ISN'T enslaved by the warlock.
its largely irrelevant how it worked at 60, what matters is how it works now, and its based on threat, then HP among those threat targets.
Oh I agree, I just don't take kindly to when people call me flat out wrong, when I am not.
silence1186 on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The first clear of naxx in this expansion went to a pug of the people who were 80 4 days after the expansion. I damn well hope Ulduar is a greater challenge.
EDIT; on my server forgive me its spring break and im drinking heavily.
The new realm-first titles/achievements are for hard mode stuff, not just plowing through with a pug like Obsidian Slayer, so at least there's that.
I am very greatful for this. There are also seperate achievements for 10 man realm first hard mode and 25 man realm first hard mode.
I do really wonder what you have to do on yogg saron to make it a hard mode.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
The first clear of naxx in this expansion went to a pug of the people who were 80 4 days after the expansion. I damn well hope Ulduar is a greater challenge.
EDIT; on my server forgive me its spring break and im drinking heavily.
The new realm-first titles/achievements are for hard mode stuff, not just plowing through with a pug like Obsidian Slayer, so at least there's that.
I am very greatful for this. There are also seperate achievements for 10 man realm first hard mode and 25 man realm first hard mode.
I do really wonder what you have to do on yogg saron to make it a hard mode.
Kill him without assistance from the 4 watchers.
silence1186 on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2009
So what assistance do they provide?
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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One time, we got screwed by oone of our 2 healers getting frozen, and thus one side couldn't get heals. another time our Icecrown Guardian tank got frozen, and Guardians start eating Healers and DPS. is it like fucking Prince Malchazarr and it's completely on luck?
And if the guardian tank gets frostblasted, you need to make sure he's in range of both healers as he'll need big heals.
Personally, I prefer solo-tanking the adds as the MT. MT can't get frostblasted, no troubles.
That sounds like your raid was TOO spread out... You can be spread out without using the whole room, everyone can be in range of everyone else basically.
He gets to decide that he doesn't want to raid?
:O
fuck that kind of atmosphere.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
and here is the dev post they were referring to.
My guild is planning to raid all Wednesday during the day and at night to complete 10man Ulduar Yogg-Saron Hardmode and Algalon in order to get both realm first achievements, and I want to be a a part of it, so I need a day off work.
lol
lol
I don't get that. Sure, sometimes I don't feel like logging on to clear Naxx in a couple hours for umpteenth time, but I do it anyway because it will massively inconvenience the guild if I do not.
that particular dude isn't raiding at all
you make this game sound like a labour camp
We're not prepared to take the risk that they will be and that some other guild will beat us to the realm first hardmodes.
What are you talking about, this game IS a labour camp. You work and work and work for little to no reward most of the time.
first kill of Rag
first kill of Kael'thas
first kill of Illidan
first kill of KJ, i imagine (though I never experienced it)
Fuck that guy.
that the pack of 24 other retards you'd been raiding with had managed to breathe through their nose long enough to avoid fire, click tears, and decurse.
ahahhahahahahha
Bro, it's been a long time since Vanilla.
A) I edited in something to clarify, you might want to read that.
C) The spell itself (http://www.wowhead.com/?search=hateful+strike) implies threat is involved.
the offtank getting mind controlled, now that is some annoying bullshit.
Don't forget the trying-too-hard-to-prove-I'm-hardcore raiders....
There is no MC in 10 man and in 25 you either use all 3 tanks or have the MT tank everything to avoid this.
EDIT; on my server forgive me its spring break and im drinking heavily.
It seems rather dubious that a spell description would make a distinction between "in combat with the boss" and not, because I don't think there's a way to be fighting the boss and not on his threat table. This leads me to believe that it's more than just "in combat with the boss."
Regardless, the fact that patchwerk would choose to kill an off tank if all 3 off tanks were at low health instead of a melee at full health pretty much proves the "primed list" theory.
Also, why would patchwerk hit a doomguard if it's banished, because if that's the case then it ISN'T enslaved by the warlock.
I hope it's an incremental increase in difficulty, and Blizzard continues the trend of giving the dick measuring population an option at the same fights with more difficult mechanics.
The new realm-first titles/achievements are for hard mode stuff, not just plowing through with a pug like Obsidian Slayer, so at least there's that.
that was also a recycled instance from level 60 for which 90% of the strategies remained current.
oh, and it had been being cleared for 2 months frequently on beta.
I wish people would stop citing the fast clear time of Naxx like it actually meant something. The hardest part of being the first guild to clear Naxx on your server was having 25 people who had enough spare time to get to 80 that fast.
its largely irrelevant how it worked at 60, what matters is how it works now, and its based on threat, then HP among those threat targets.
Oh I agree, I just don't take kindly to when people call me flat out wrong, when I am not.
I am very greatful for this. There are also seperate achievements for 10 man realm first hard mode and 25 man realm first hard mode.
I do really wonder what you have to do on yogg saron to make it a hard mode.
Kill him without assistance from the 4 watchers.
"How appropriate, you fight like a cow."