[WoW] Raiding: Naxxramas is the new Naxxramas

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  • OatsOats Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I never had a microphone, so I'd always move Maly somewhat unannounced.

    Then the people would bitch that I was moving Maly and the melee was out of range.

    Then Maly would eat the spark I just positioned him across from, after it flew straight through the raid unscathed.

    Oats on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hevach wrote: »
    So far our problem with Malygos hasn't been the tank positioning, but getting the ranged dps to not kill the sparks a mile from everyone.

    My old guild was having that problem, the solution was that one day during Naxx 25, we got Spore Loser on threat of /gkick if we killed a spore. At all. Three weeks in a row. No gkicks, but DKP penalties and a few regulars found themselves downgraded to backup, but eventually it got sorted out.

    How many people had to respec?

    We tried it a few times, and for some strange reason one of the spores started attacking our warrior tank, and his shield talent killed the spore.

    Usually it's that DK disease talent that causes problems though.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited March 2009
    Whew. Doing a lot better on Sarth3D tonight.

    We've got drakes under control, but right now the problem is the cooldowns on the tank so he doesn't turn into a DK-shaped shadow on the ground from a breath.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    End wrote: »
    How many people had to respec?

    We tried it a few times, and for some strange reason one of the spores started attacking our warrior tank, and his shield talent killed the spore.

    Usually it's that DK disease talent that causes problems though.

    No one had to respec when we did it but the DKs couldn't use that, and other such things... It almost got foiled when a ditzy warlock forgot to turn off her felguard's cleave but someone else noticed in time. Then the rest of the fight was amusing due to people taunting the spores around the room so a hunter could proc that trap talent and get extra DPS from them.

    riz on
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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Bikkstah wrote: »
    The only problem I have with tanking Malygos is when the sparks come from behind me. I can't seem to get any of the officers to understand that vent has a small lag behind WoW and they need to do a /rw if sparks are behind me.

    Why can't you spin your camera around and look for yourself. You need to be spinning it to the left or right to see sparks coming from there, behind is no different. There's a giant /rw from DBM when a spark spawns from a portal, when you see that just find where it spawned and be ready to move. If you are kiting properly, Malygos can outrun a spark until he stops to breathe.

    Dhalphir on
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Hm, I like the idea of kiting them around the room with taunts.

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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  • dasnoobdasnoob ArkansasRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Survival spec dps right now is the best you can get as a hunter, so he must truly be a huntard. Even in our casual raiding guild we don't reinvite people with that low dps. We try to tell them they're too low so they can actively improve, but 9 times out of 10 someone who is low on dps isn't going to want to bother getting better at it.

    The only time I've seen different is an enhance shammy who started at like 900 dps in naxx. We talked to him and told him a few websites he could use to get better talent builds/battle strategies. Now he's consistently in our top 3 dps.

    The lotheb idea is good though, I may have to try that out.

    Oh the survival spec guy does great except for the fact he doesn't know how to misdirect/use feign death whatever to wipe aggro.

    It is the marksman hunter that evidently just sits and autoshots. I've spoken to our raid leaders privately about the issue. I'll leave it to them to do something about it. It is just aggrivating because I was in our progression 10-man which got naxx on farm status. We're trying to build to 25-man and are about 3 people short so to keep people from bailing it was decided to run two seperate 10-mans. My group was supposed to have the offtank, top dps (me), top healer, second best healer in it from the original farming group.

    Unfortunately our offtank got a new job and can't raid with us and the second best healer's computer took a shit. So it is me, our old top healer who didn't really know the fights (he healbotted) and 8 guys who have never been in Naxx.

    On the positive side I found out how incredibly easy it is to kite zombie chow as a death knight. Especially if you have a shaman that keeps earthbind up.

    dasnoob on
  • Bliss 101Bliss 101 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    riz wrote: »
    End wrote: »
    How many people had to respec?

    We tried it a few times, and for some strange reason one of the spores started attacking our warrior tank, and his shield talent killed the spore.

    Usually it's that DK disease talent that causes problems though.

    No one had to respec when we did it but the DKs couldn't use that, and other such things... It almost got foiled when a ditzy warlock forgot to turn off her felguard's cleave but someone else noticed in time. Then the rest of the fight was amusing due to people taunting the spores around the room so a hunter could proc that trap talent and get extra DPS from them.

    With us it's always been a paladin who can't resist using Divine Storm right next to a spore.

    Bliss 101 on
    MSL59.jpg
  • Bliss 101Bliss 101 Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Echo wrote: »
    Whew. Doing a lot better on Sarth3D tonight.

    We've got drakes under control, but right now the problem is the cooldowns on the tank so he doesn't turn into a DK-shaped shadow on the ground from a breath.

    We have the same issue. I think we'll get 3D down during the coming week, as right now it's really all about the tank dying, and in some cases adds getting out of hand and harassing healers.

    Also some fine tuning, such as DPS positioning so that they spend less time moving from lava waves and more time pewpewing.

    Bliss 101 on
    MSL59.jpg
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I just about punched one of our DKs last week doing 25-man EOE.

    He was on spark duty and kept accidentally Death Gripping Malygos. Caused at least two wipes.

    MuddBudd on
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  • dasnoobdasnoob ArkansasRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    I just about punched one of our DKs last week doing 25-man EOE.

    He was on spark duty and kept accidentally Death Gripping Malygos. Caused at least two wipes.

    Wow, I made a macro so I didn't have to worry about it. We still didn't have the dps because of the huntards killing them before I could death grip.

    /sigh can't we just delete that class?

    dasnoob on
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    When do Sarth+2 drake attempts the dk who does the add tanking at least once a night taunts sarth ruining my positioning. And at least once a night the drake tank accidentally taunts him off me too. Though kind of funny, that dragon just never wants to set up in that nice position I get him at in the beginning again.

    Mazzyx on
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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    We had a mistake something like that - somebody taunted Thaddius for some reason during a polarity switch and positioning just went to hell. Going to have to watch that in 3.1 - you can't taunt something back until the first taunt wears off.

    Hevach on
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I haven't actually looked into it since they first announced it, but from the wording it sounded more like other diminishing returns where the first taunt would last full duration, the second is half duration, the third is a quarter and the fourth taunt won't work until the DR is gone.

    khain on
  • AldarezAldarez Registered User
    edited March 2009
    I was under the impression they were going to take the form of increased chance to resist.

    No luck finding a blue post to support any of the theories just yet.

    Aldarez on
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  • DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User
    edited March 2009
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    I just about punched one of our DKs last week doing 25-man EOE.

    He was on spark duty and kept accidentally Death Gripping Malygos. Caused at least two wipes.

    Sure it wasn't your ranged DPS being retarded and killing the sparks right before they could be Gripped? That would cause Grip to target the next available target, even with a macro. We had some problems with that too.

    It's not an insoluble problem by any means, but it's not necessarily a completely stupid mistake, depending on what happened.

    Dkarrde on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • LaurlunaLaurluna Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Echo wrote: »
    Whew. Doing a lot better on Sarth3D tonight.

    We've got drakes under control, but right now the problem is the cooldowns on the tank so he doesn't turn into a DK-shaped shadow on the ground from a breath.
    Is he using the goofy "Sarth Tank" spec that gets a bunch of random talents/cooldowns from Blood and Frost? Also, how is his gear?

    Our DK only ever needs one "outside" cooldown and that's a Blessing of Sacrifice + Bubble from me. WTB DK's gear choice/Rune choice/spec choice. After seeing that, would want to know just how long your DK is having to face full force Twilight Torment breaths from Sarth.

    Laurluna on
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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I swear I'm cursed in my naxx 25 man run. Two nice weps drop last night and I roll shitty on both and mouth breathers won them. My guild needs some kind of system other than 1 win a night because we've had pug people getting loot over people who haven't gotten shit in a couple weeks.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • tallgeezetallgeeze Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    I swear I'm cursed in my naxx 25 man run. Two nice weps drop last night and I roll shitty on both and mouth breathers won them. My guild needs some kind of system other than 1 win a night because we've had pug people getting loot over people who haven't gotten shit in a couple weeks.

    See if you can get your guild to use EPGP. It's the fairest system I have ever seen.

    tallgeeze on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    tallgeeze wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I swear I'm cursed in my naxx 25 man run. Two nice weps drop last night and I roll shitty on both and mouth breathers won them. My guild needs some kind of system other than 1 win a night because we've had pug people getting loot over people who haven't gotten shit in a couple weeks.

    See if you can get your guild to use EPGP. It's the fairest system I have ever seen.

    Forgive my ingorance whats EP GP?

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    It doesn't really matter what system they use as pugs won't come if they don't have a equal chance to win loot.

    khain on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    khain wrote: »
    It doesn't really matter what system they use as pugs won't come if they don't have a equal chance to win loot.

    True, but we have a 1 raid main spec roll and after we cleared spider wing we lost like 5 people who won to random "sorry gotta go". Kind of pissed me off as it was obvious from who left why they did.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I would do the wings in reverse order, but I think the root of the problem is the single roll. While this might be fair the problem is that pugs don't care if the guild progresses so once they get a item whats the point in staying as they now lose priority on anything else that drops. My guild was in a similar position a while ago and what we did was open rolls with no limit, but if a member of the guild wins then we can distribute the item according to our loot rolls, which happens to be loot council, and guild members would only roll if the item is a upgrade.

    khain on
  • tallgeezetallgeeze Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    tallgeeze wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I swear I'm cursed in my naxx 25 man run. Two nice weps drop last night and I roll shitty on both and mouth breathers won them. My guild needs some kind of system other than 1 win a night because we've had pug people getting loot over people who haven't gotten shit in a couple weeks.

    See if you can get your guild to use EPGP. It's the fairest system I have ever seen.

    Forgive my ingorance whats EP GP?


    It's loot system.

    Follow this link. http://code.google.com/p/epgp/wiki/TheSystem

    I was all prepared to give an explanation, but I got assinged work to do. Blasted work.

    tallgeeze on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    khain wrote: »
    I would do the wings in reverse order, but I think the root of the problem is the single roll. While this might be fair the problem is that pugs don't care if the guild progresses so once they get a item whats the point in staying as they now lose priority on anything else that drops. My guild was in a similar position a while ago and what we did was open rolls with no limit, but if a member of the guild wins then we can distribute the item according to our loot rolls, which happens to be loot council, and guild members would only roll if the item is a upgrade.

    Well they still get badges and even if you dont want the gear you can get the boe bracers and sell them for a couple thousand gold. Not to mention its a dick move just to leave because you got something. I mean do they leave heoric regulars because the last boss doesn't drop anything they want?

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • EQDuffyEQDuffy Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    We allow multiple rolls, but only if no one else needs for mainspec. If I've won something on my resto shaman and a paly healer has won something and a healer shield drops, we can both roll if no one else wants it. Even if he hasn't, if no one wants it, I can still get it. We had problems at first with people saying they didn't need something and rolling on it as a greed/secondary roll, but just decided any mainspec loot counts as your need roll.

    Works out pretty well, and is fairly PUG friendly.

    EQDuffy on
  • AngryAngry Did you come here to kill Or did you come here to dieRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    loot rules are silly.

    free roll for life.

    Angry on
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    We do a weekly alt/pug Naxx25 with a one-per-night rule (well... you have to declare a main spec, one main item, one off-spec item). I don't think they ever really have problems with people ditching after they've won something. Possibly because our pugs aren't total retards and realize that if they do something dumb, we won't invite them again, and our alt/pug runs are like free loot giveaways every week.

    riz on
    Organichu wrote:
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  • Cilla BlackCilla Black Priscilla!!! Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Loot rules are pretty stupid, but even in a group of friends I like to have them at the beginning of a new raid progression. There are just too many people who succumb to that small voice that says "hey, roll on this even though it's only a little upgrade and that guy over there needs it a lot more."

    Although, that's going to be much easier to deal with going from Naxx to Ulduar than it was Heroics to Naxx. People are going to be far more balanced in each slot.

    Cilla Black on
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    My guild has a kind of odd loot system. At the start of every tier of raiding, we write up bid sheets (these aren't locked in stone until loot lists for the zone are reasonably complete) - one item per slot. The items on people's bid sheets go to DKP, everything else goes freeroll. Only priority is that people who can actually use an item (main spec or offspec) get priority over people who just need itemlevels for flame leviathan.

    It's zero sum, so only get DKP when DKP gets spent, which only happens when somebody's best-in-slot drops. No DKP hording, alts and pugs can get gear, but no random idiot walking out with things people really want.

    Hevach on
  • mturalonmturalon Registered User
    edited March 2009
    we had the most fantastic loot system in place not too long ago with our ex guild leader. It was fairly easy to follow too. If you were "in" then you got to roll for anything you thought was an upgrade for your primary spec. If you weren't sure if the drop was for your primary spec and the best in slot item from a dungeon, you could roll anyway. (Awesome because you didn't have to do any research to see if it was an upgrade or not you just said.. ooh pretty /roll) If you were not "in" you could roll, but it didn't count for anything unless everyone that was "in" already had it.

    man those were the days. Now we have the.. don't be a dick policy of open roll if its for your main spec, if its alt spec you get to roll if main spec has.

    mturalon on
  • Just Some DudeJust Some Dude Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The only loot system that actually works is to have a full raid of people who always raid together for some reasonable period of time and who won't be dicks. Everything else is going to cause massive drama.

    Re: Pugs in a mostly guild raid - If you don't like pugs winning loot, don't invite them and just under-man stuff. I've always maintained that if you're not fielding a 100% guild raid every raid, then your problem is that you need to be recruiting more instead of obsessing over loot.

    Just Some Dude on
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  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited March 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    Forgive my ingorance whats EP GP?

    We use it in my guild, and it works like a charm.

    You get Effort Points for participating in raids. A sample log from yesterday's Sartharion 3D tries:
    EPGP wrote:
    200 EP has been awarded for:
    • Being on time: 25 EP
    • Stayed until raid end: 25 EP
    • 24 progression boss wipes: 120 EP
    • 12 x 15 minutes of raiding: 30 EP
    Awarded to: <people>

    Then you get Gear Points for looting stuff. We have a system where the GPs for an item is based on the item level, with a modifier for different slots so bracers are cheaper than chest plates etc. For example, a T7 25-man glove token costs 63.90 GPs.

    You then divide EPs by GPs to get your looting priority. Here's our priority list. (We actually add 0.01 to the GPs to avoid a divide by zero for people that don't have any GPs yet, meaning that people with zero GPs show up with a fuckton of priority until they've actually looted something.)

    This system probably looks pretty heavy on the administration, but me and the officers are a bunch of programmer geeks. We have the entire system tied directly into our guild forum, with an admin interface where you can just add an item name to a person, choose what spec it is for (offspecs pay 5% of regular cost), and then it's added and updated. We wrote a mod that calculates GPs on the fly in item tooltips.

    This system is, in my opinion, very fair and impossible to cheat at, since everything is public. Sure, you can add some EPs to yourself, but that'll get discovered pretty quick-

    A big advantage is that it's impossible to hoard points for that certain item. The EPs and GPs decay by 10% every week, so eventually you'll reach a limit where your decay gets as big as the EPs you can get in a single week.

    That's the basics. We have some special rules in addition to this.

    We have main specs and offspecs. Main specs have priority over anyone wanting something for offspec. We also have secondary specs - this is DPS gear for tanks, since every tank is expected to be able to DPS as well if not needed as a tank for a particular fight. Secondary and offspec pay 5% of the normal cost, and the priority goes main - secondary - offspec.

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Does anyone happen to know if a shaman can use Heroism on KT?

    khain on
  • ArkanArkan Registered User
    edited March 2009
    khain wrote: »
    Does anyone happen to know if a shaman can use Heroism on KT?

    Possibly, but it's purgable anyway so you'd be able to remove it right away assuming the shaman in question doesn't suffer a panic attack and stop communicating.

    Arkan on
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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Preacher, for your regulars let them add a +10 to their roll everytime they come to a raid and don't win anything. This let's pug still have a chance at winning loot and you get an even better chance at winning loot.

    We're experimenting with this and so far it's working. The 4 or 5 people who still need loot pretty much win the items they're in it for, and the 2 or 3 puggers that are in it to "save their rolls for the phattest lewts" quickly realize they're fucking dumb and roll on smaller upgrades that are still substantial upgrades instead of holding out for some tier or BIS item over that "it's just a trinket man, I want my helm!"

    bowen on
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  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    That +10 thing sounds like a good idea. Just to keep the "show up one time" pugs from walking away with a ton of stuff.

    Last night this guy who's been to a lot of our pug Naxx raids paid one of my guildies 3,000g to pass on the helm token so his brother could win it. I don't really like allowing that sort of thing to start, but I don't run the pug and am not interesting in getting involved really. I thought it was so stupid though. The guy who paid comes regularly, and it wasn't the first time his brother was there, either. There's a good chance if they keep coming that he would have just plain won the token sooner or later. I could see paying a chunk of gold for something like a KT weapon, but a tier token?

    riz on
    Organichu wrote:
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Gold's easy to get, and you never know when the token you want is even going to drop again.

    Personally I think any kind of loot system that involves /random rolls is a bad idea. That's always going to lead to bad feelings sooner or later.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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  • TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    riz wrote: »
    That +10 thing sounds like a good idea. Just to keep the "show up one time" pugs from walking away with a ton of stuff.

    Last night this guy who's been to a lot of our pug Naxx raids paid one of my guildies 3,000g to pass on the helm token so his brother could win it. I don't really like allowing that sort of thing to start, but I don't run the pug and am not interesting in getting involved really. I thought it was so stupid though. The guy who paid comes regularly, and it wasn't the first time his brother was there, either. There's a good chance if they keep coming that he would have just plain won the token sooner or later. I could see paying a chunk of gold for something like a KT weapon, but a tier token?

    Sometimes the biggest pain is hearing a family member whine about losing on a certain piece of loot week in and week out.

    I say this from experience dealing with my Enhancement Shaman Brother. I would pay many golds to get him to shut up about the stupid Calamity's Grasp.

    TheGerbil on

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    If they weren't a Deathknight,mage,druid,rogue I'd understand completely.

    Sometimes I wonder if their RNG is even close to a pseudo RNG, certainly seems stacked until it reaches a critical point where it just unloads onto someone. IE quest drops tend to either be really good or really shitty, item drops tend to be really good or really shitty, cooking dailies tend to be one thing day after day, instance dailies tend to be one thing day after day.

    We're not sure if we're going to imply the +10 to loot (goes until they win something) or if it's going to be a roll of 1-110 or whatever. the implied +10 is probably the better of the two.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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