Warhammer 40k - Such is the Emperor's will.

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  • AsumaAsuma Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Other than Ebay for $5, is there any market whatsoever for last edition codices? I have a bunch of army books gathering dust.

    Asuma on
    "Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right, you meet the same idiots coming around from the left." -- Clint Eastwood ***
  • AzraelAzrael Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Well a melta is still one shot, I think it really comes down to if I want to diversify the squad to take tanks. Even against marines a flamer will probably take one or two if you can get a good number under the template, and it will be fantastic against orks (right now against them I intend to use my tornadoes to heavy flame units to soften them up for the rest of the army.

    Azrael on
  • Lord BaelzebubLord Baelzebub Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Interesting Azrael.
    I have a couple tornados but I have never even thought of using Heavy Flamers.
    How are they working for you?
    I have the Ass. Cannon/H. Bolter Combo with swappability for a Multimelta.

    Lord Baelzebub on
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Asuma wrote: »
    Other than Ebay for $5, is there any market whatsoever for last edition codices? I have a bunch of army books gathering dust.

    You mean 3rd edition? Not that I can think of. 2nd edition still has some viability to it, because it's more or less a whole different game, but I can't think of ever heading anyone playing 3rd over 4th.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
  • AzraelAzrael Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I haven't used them yet, but just so you know, you can't have an assault cannon/multi-melta combo (which would be awesome)

    The flamer/melta combo is probably more flexible, though the ones you have will have more range but only really good for infantry.

    Azrael on
  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I call dibs on Codex: Sisters of Battle and the 40,000 Compendium. :P

    Utsanomiko on
    hmm.gif
  • timspork's ghosttimspork's ghost Master Librarian and Ghostbuster Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Azrael wrote: »
    The flamer/melta combo is probably more flexible, though the ones you have will have more range but only really good for infantry.

    Apparently this version is the preferred type for Land Speeders in DA armies with the new codex. People have even given it a name. Hellfire.

    timspork's ghost on
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  • AzraelAzrael Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Odd, I thought heavy bolter/assault cannon was the 'standard' DA Tornado, you get the bits for one (and a Typhoon) on the DA Ravenwing sprue.

    Azrael on
  • Legoman05Legoman05 Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Alright, the list at present: (I did other stuff this afternoon, it didn't take me this long to get it together)

    HQ Unit: 291
    Captain, with Bolter
    4 Terminator Bodyguards
    - 2 Assault Cannon (Master Crafted)

    Marine Unit 1: 55 pts
    Sergeant, with bolter
    4 Marines
    - 1 Heavy Bolter (Master Crafted)

    Marine Unit 2: 55 pts
    Sergeant, with bolter
    4 Marines
    - 1 Heavy Bolter (Master Crafted)

    total: 501 points.

    I figure I get an epic amount of shots a turn, which should vaporize most of his troops. I'll be sure to hit the genestealers first. What say ye?

    Legoman05 on
  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I think points are being wasted on Terminator armor for the Captain and his command squad. Nothing's going to be doing enough damage to seriously warrant it, and it makes them a jucier target to tie up in CC.

    I typically field something like 15 Tactical Marines and 5 Assault Marines in 500pts.

    Utsanomiko on
    hmm.gif
  • Legoman05Legoman05 Registered User
    edited March 2007
    I wanted the terminators for mobility with the assault cannons - the idea was to use one of the other units to tie up HIS dudes down in melee, and then be able to move and let fly with 8 shots from the assault cannon - with the terminator armor, I think that heavy armor can move and shoot.

    And, the captain doesn't have term. armor, I don't think.


    But, I'm open to the idea of three marine squads and one group of assault marines. I guess with the assault guys I could put heavy bolter on all of them...

    Legoman05 on
  • SUPERSUGASUPERSUGA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    You can give regular marines master-crafted weapons?

    SUPERSUGA on
  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Quick question: I'm planning on fielding a squad of Warp Spiders in my new army, and I thought I might deck out an Autarch with a jump generator and a fusion gun (and shuriken pistol? Chainsword thingie?) to make them really nasty.

    My question is two-part:
    1) What's the 'magic number' for these guys? 6? 8? 44? How big do I need to make this squad for maximum effectiveness? Is there a general rule of thumb for figuring that out?
    and
    2) Would putting a WS Exarch in the squad be overkill/a waste of points? Is it even legal?

    Ermm... I guess that there were really four or five questions in there. Sorry about that.

    GrimmyTOA on
  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    SUPERSUGA wrote: »
    You can give regular marines master-crafted weapons?

    Yep, but not the best use of the upgrade IMHO. On the other hand, Terminators can only be joined by a character in power armor, so that's a bust for that current list. My concern was the sheer cost of simply getting a +2/+5 armor, move-n-shoot unit to carry two assault cannons. Going by point cost a better means would likely be a pair of Land Speeder Tornadoes. Or maybe a Dreadnought, which would be difficult for a small nid horde to crack open.

    Utsanomiko on
    hmm.gif
  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Remember, though, that Landspeeders are AV10 all around, which is pretty fragile compared to 3+ ablative terminator wounds.

    Der Waffle Mous on
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  • AzraelAzrael Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Utsanomiko wrote: »
    SUPERSUGA wrote: »
    You can give regular marines master-crafted weapons?

    Yep, but not the best use of the upgrade IMHO.

    Er, no, master-crafted needs access to the wargear list, that's veteran sergeants and characters. No master-crafted heavy weapons.

    Azrael on
  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    why wrote: »
    Remember, though, that Landspeeders are AV10 all around, which is pretty fragile compared to 3+ ablative terminator wounds.

    Of course, but we're talking versus a dozen Termagaunts with 12" guns. Six might hit and one will be lucky to glance, assuming they don't just hang out at 24" and kite the fuck out of the nids with 8 S6 rend shots and two Heavy Bolters.
    Azrael wrote: »
    Er, no, master-crafted needs access to the wargear list, that's veteran sergeants and characters. No master-crafted heavy weapons.

    Heh, I thought he meant normal Marines with access to the armory. As opposed to wargear listed as HQ-units only (Inquisiton and IG has a lot of these, off the top of my head). Didn't even cross my mind he was asking about non-veteran Marines' normal weapon options.

    Utsanomiko on
    hmm.gif
  • EinEin CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    A little update on my boyz. :P

    Here's some of the regular ol' Boyz - 20, to be precise. Nothing really special out of the lot save for slightly reposed arms and the fact that everything is pinned. Looking back at these photos, I can actually spot one or two guns I forgot to drill out. :D I'll be adding extra bitz to them as I go - I'm particularly waiting to see some of the new Black Ork stuff be released before I paint everything up, as there are some bitz on there I am fond of. In general, my generic boyz are unhelmeted, save for a couple that slipped in there anyway, but a bit of variation is good for Orks anyway so they'll probably end up staying.

    bz5.jpg

    bz6.jpg

    bz7.jpg

    The Trukk Boyz squad now numbers 10 as well, though they are nowhere near done, either. I plan on taking some of the 'regular' spears and converting them still - one into a streetsign, and the other into probably a chunk of concrete on the end of a very large pole, as though he ripped it out of the ground. Some tweaks will be eventually done here and there to the weapons as well.

    tbz7.jpg

    tbz8.jpg

    tbz9.jpg

    Lastly, I started working on some Flash Gitz that are going to be hanging out with a Big Mek on the back of my squiggoth. There's going to be 8 total - four to man the Bolt-On Big Shootas, 4 with their own Big Shootas, and the eventual Big Mek will end up firing the 5th on the Squiggoth while providing a KFF save. I'm having trouble coming up with what I could do to make them particularly 'flashy' - I'm giving them all hair as I imagine Flash Gitz would be the orks in my warband that would buy hair squigs for themselves in such a fashion (and I don't really like the heads mixed into my normal squads). I think they're going to get the goggle treatment, as well, and maybe shoulder pads if I can find styrene tubing large enough to suit my needs. These are the 4 without Big Shootas.

    fgz1.jpg

    fgz2.jpg

    On a slightly related note - my god, those shoota arms are a pain to get lined up properly! When they're holding the gun, either their head gets in the way, or their legs block the guns. I've got a couple small gaps in the arms I'm going to have to greenstuff later.

    Ein on
  • Legoman05Legoman05 Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Right, so go with a dread then... What would be the best weapons to toss on that sucker? I take it I'll probably want the power-fist to manage the horde up close - the las-cannon seems like overkill, would missile launchers be the best bet there?

    If I'm ditching the terminator squad, and the (non-eligible) weapon upgrades, then what would be the best use of those points? I need to get more fire on those 'nids, but with an extra 30 points floating around, should I put that into a bike?

    Legoman05 on
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Being that they're flash gits, is it possible to give them sunglasses, or somehow otherwise make the goggles 'cool?'

    Gabriel_Pitt on
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    well I decided to break out and paint a space marine dreadnaught
    Picture29.jpg
    I lost one of the kneepads so I am trying to think of what I can do to replace it

    I will take a better picture in morning and replace this one

    You can also see how dusty this house is in the background

    Brainleech on
  • Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    How are you not choking to death in there with all that dust?

    Synthetic Orange on
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I've been thinking of picking up a new 500 point 40k army, mainly for painting, to give me something other than wow to spend my time on.

    For traitor guard, what is a better choice, in your all's opinion, a standard IG list, or using the Lost and the Damned list? I quit 40k around the time they were first released, so I don't know their strengths.

    I'm thinking Tzeentch would be fun to paint. Lots of blues.

    DisruptorX2 on
    1208768734831.jpg
  • AzraelAzrael Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Brainleech wrote: »
    well I decided to break out and paint a space marine dreadnaught
    Picture29.jpg
    I lost one of the kneepads so I am trying to think of what I can do to replace it

    I will take a better picture in morning and replace this one

    You can also see how dusty this house is in the background

    If you have use for the Ravenwing sprue it has 2 dreadnought kneepads/shinguards on it, one with a neat bit of parchment on it (the other is the DA logo). The other stuff on it lets you upgrade a normal landspeeder set into a typhoon or the Master of the Ravenwing setup (twin heavy bolter, twin assault cannon), with some purity seals and books you're not going to have a problem finding use for in a Templar army.

    Azrael on
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Ok Better pics of my dreadnought
    as it is right nowPicture32.jpg
    it's basePicture35.jpg
    AssembledPicture36.jpg

    I had forgotten about the Ravenwing things that I could get to make my dreadnought and other vehicles more Black Templar look to my army

    Brainleech on
  • RalakanRalakan Registered User
    edited March 2007
    GrimmyTOA wrote: »
    Quick question: I'm planning on fielding a squad of Warp Spiders in my new army, and I thought I might deck out an Autarch with a jump generator and a fusion gun (and shuriken pistol? Chainsword thingie?) to make them really nasty.

    My question is two-part:
    1) What's the 'magic number' for these guys? 6? 8? 44? How big do I need to make this squad for maximum effectiveness? Is there a general rule of thumb for figuring that out?
    and
    2) Would putting a WS Exarch in the squad be overkill/a waste of points? Is it even legal?

    Ermm... I guess that there were really four or five questions in there. Sorry about that.


    I love using warp spiders so for me the magic number is "as many as I can afford." I've generally used 2 groups of 6+ex though with pretty good success. the ex, given the right ability, can remove the squad from melee if you happen to get ambushed, which is quite handy but not always worth the points. Just keep in mind what you want the squad to be doing... if they are to wipe out softer targets you might want to adjust the autarch for something more appropriate, right now he's set up for tank hunting which the spiders are only good at if it's a light vehicle or they can get in a rear armor shot or 20.

    Ralakan on
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    edited March 2007
    Hmm hmm. Maybe Imperial Guard if I start some 40k.

    How many Basilisks can I get if I start at 500 points? :P

    Echo on
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
  • Anime OwnsAnime Owns Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Two..

    ^___^;;

    Anime Owns on
  • AthaedosAthaedos Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Little Background:

    I had the idea to dive into Warhammer 40k as Dark Angels several years ago. A year after that, I proceeded to buy and obtain (Deathwing Terminators for Christmas? Thanks daddy!) quite a large amount of models/paints/supplies. Interest kind of died out, then the new rulebook came out and I bought that, and proceeded to plan out all sorts of army lists and probably bought some more models. Through these times I had little 'bursts' of interest and would paint a whole squad in a night till 6AM and such, but never really a lasting interest in actually painting/playing. I would often strip models of their paint because it had been so long since I was interested and knew I could do better, but then I wouldn't be motivated to complete them again.

    Anyways, here I am now all moved out and such, and I decide to bring out the 40k stuff. It's very nice to be able to finally set everything up on a giant table (There were five cats at my Mom's house) and just designate it as Warhammer space, and I think that was really all I needed originally. Me doing this surprisingly inspired my room-mate to take out old eldar stuff some guy had given him and put it together, and sure enough he was drawn in and purchased an Aurach, Dark Reapers, and Swooping Hawks. By the time he had them assembled I had begun to paint two tactical squads (or rather, one split into two and using another seargent I had). After that I painted my custom commander, and here I am.

    Pics:
    core01lh6.jpg
    core02nc2.jpg
    core03oy2.jpg

    I'm quite satisfied with the paint jobs, mainly considering I don't have all that much experience painting minis. (Though that picture just made me aware of how thick/ugly that highlight on my commander's inner-upper leg is :P)

    But now, aside from the two plasma-cannon marines I'm going to add to each squad, I'm kind of stuck.

    My commander basically has no ranged weapons, so I figure the best thing to do with him is attach him to a squad of close combat veterans and give them a razorback. But I don't really want to use a razorback for them without giving rhinos or razorbacks to the tactical squads either. Another idea I had was to get a Chaplain with a jump pack to replace my commander, and one question I have is can I use assault marines in an HQ unit? I really should get the new SM and DA codexes, but before I spend more money I wanna get a better grip on the hobby as a whole. So for now I'm gonna paint some terrain and hopefully do my first battle against my friend's eldar tonight. I haven't even figured out what exactly my commander is/has point value wise, and how much my force is overall. I've been considering getting some bikes as the one thing I don't have is fast attack, and as I understand it the best thing to do would be make a small squadron of them with an attack bike.

    Other than the core force in those pictures, I have:
    4 scouts with snipers and one w/ heavy bolter
    5 deathwing terminators w/ two assault cannons
    1 predator decked out with pure lascannons
    1 Rhino
    8 marines or so

    I'm not sure what to paint out of what I have, and I'm just overall looking for suggestions and comments on building a balanced army (probably gonna go for around 700-1000 points or so).

    Athaedos on
  • CarnivoreCarnivore Registered User
    edited March 2007
    I love your painting style man.

    Carnivore on
    hihi.jpg
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    The thick outline highlights you gave your Dark Angel's really make them pop. On the zoomed out pictures it gives them a pretty neat cartoony feel. It's not a very realistic painting shceme, but I like it and feel that applied uniformally to an army would give them a pretty good look.

    Small question, I notice alot of you guys are building/talking about 500pt army lists. Is this a popular format now? I remember back when I played 1,000pt games were the smallest you could hope to get into. But a 500pt army.. that would be cheap and easy to make, and very much piques my interest.

    Inquisitor on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Echo wrote: »
    Hmm hmm. Maybe Imperial Guard if I start some 40k.

    How many Basilisks can I get if I start at 500 points? :P


    1, unless you do combat patrol, in which case you can squeeze in 2.

    But if you do 1 in a normal non-CP 500 pts list your required slots will be crazy bare bones.



    What I'd recommend is to decide the style of guard you want to start.

    Some options are:

    Pure catchcans
    pure cadians
    pure metal guard (vostroyans, mordians, praetorians, steel legion, necromunda gangers, etc, this can get expensive quickly)


    Either catchcans or cadians + some other box for flavor (which can be virtually anything, fantasy empire mixes well with cadians, fantasy chaos mixes well with catchcans, space marine scouts work well if you've got your heart set on carapace armor, especially if you want to do custom storm troopers/grenadiers, tau fire warriors are good for a gue'la force if you want to go that route, brettonian men at arms + cadians for ww1 style overcoat guard, you get the idea.)



    Buy enough guard for a basic troop platoon. If you're only buying the cadian or catchcan guard box for the weapons each box easilly has enough lasguns in it to fill out 4 10-man squads (32 in total for the cadian box, remember you have to buy the HW teams seperately). The HW team box has enough heavy weapon parts for 4 teams if you have a few extra bases lying around and get creative.


    So for a beginner I'd buy 1 HW team box, 1 cadian or catchcan box, then enough of whatever bodies you want, which should be 1 or 2 boxes depending on which set it is if it's plastic. Grab 2 or 3 special weapons too if you want something other than 'nades and flamers.


    Then buy your basilisk.


    This should give you more than enough for a 400 point combat patrol, and should give you a good opportunity to play around with guard and see what you like and need.

    Jealous Deva on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Echo wrote: »
    Hmm hmm. Maybe Imperial Guard if I start some 40k.

    How many Basilisks can I get if I start at 500 points? :P


    1, unless you do combat patrol, in which case you can squeeze in 2.

    But if you do 1 in a normal non-CP 500 pts list your required slots will be crazy bare bones.



    What I'd recommend is to decide the style of guard you want to start.

    Some options are:

    Pure catchcans
    pure cadians
    pure metal guard (vostroyans, mordians, praetorians, steel legion, necromunda gangers, etc, this can get expensive quickly)


    Either catchcans or cadians + some other box for flavor (which can be virtually anything, fantasy empire mixes well with cadians, fantasy chaos mixes well with catchcans, space marine scouts work well if you've got your heart set on carapace armor, especially if you want to do custom storm troopers/grenadiers, tau fire warriors are good for a gue'la force if you want to go that route, brettonian men at arms + cadians for ww1 style overcoat guard, you get the idea.)



    Buy enough guard for a basic troop platoon. If you're only buying the cadian or catchcan guard box for the weapons each box easilly has enough lasguns in it to fill out 4 10-man squads (32 in total for the cadian box, remember you have to buy the HW teams seperately). The HW team box has enough heavy weapon parts for 4 teams if you have a few extra bases lying around and get creative.


    So for a beginner I'd buy 1 HW team box, 1 cadian or catchcan box, then enough of whatever bodies you want, which should be 1 or 2 boxes depending on which set it is if it's plastic. Grab 2 or 3 special weapons too if you want something other than 'nades and flamers.


    Then buy your basilisk.


    This should give you more than enough for a 400 point combat patrol, and should give you a good opportunity to play around with guard and see what you like and need.

    Jealous Deva on
  • Anime OwnsAnime Owns Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Echo wrote: »
    Hmm hmm. Maybe Imperial Guard if I start some 40k.

    How many Basilisks can I get if I start at 500 points? :P


    1, unless you do combat patrol, in which case you can squeeze in 2.

    But if you do 1 in a normal non-CP 500 pts list your required slots will be crazy bare bones.

    While I think Echo was joking about the Basilisks, you can get 2 in 500 points even without combat patrol rules.

    1 command platoon - 40 points
    1 infantry platoon - 160 points
    1 conscript squad - 80 points
    2 basilisks - 200 points

    That leaves 20 points for special/heavy weapons. :P

    I bet you could get all 3 in if you used doctrines..

    edit:

    Yeah, if you use the grenadier doctrine you can get all 3. 1 command platoon, 2 5 man grenadier squads and 3 basilisks with 60 points left for more grenadiers/special weapons.

    hah

    Anime Owns on
  • Anime OwnsAnime Owns Registered User
    edited March 2007
    Also, on a semi related note, I wrote an IG list that had 157 guys in it at 1500 points. Included 12 missile launchers, 8 heavy bolters, 12 grenade launchers, 10 flamers and 3 lascannons. Plus, you know, all of those lasguns. I contend that it's probably an unbeatable list.

    Anime Owns on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Right, I forgot that you can take them without indirect fire. Though I don't know why anyone would want to.

    Jealous Deva on
  • Anime OwnsAnime Owns Registered User
    edited March 2007
    I just don't take them at all.

    Why is there long range artillery in a skirmish game?

    Anime Owns on
  • TheBogTheBog Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    That list has a mindboggling-ly low amount of heavy weapons, Gigglio. It just won't do. It just won't. 3 lascannons in 1500 points? No plasma? No deal.

    TheBog on
  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Sharpshooter doctrine.

    discuss.

    Der Waffle Mous on
    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Waste of points on anything aside from heavy weapon squads.

    Nice but not necessary on LC squads or ML. Doesn't work for plasma or snipers where it would really be useful.

    Basically mathematically it just increases your BS to 3.5. So from a base 50% to hit to 58% to hit.

    Not really worth it in my opinion.


    Edit: Consider for the basic guardsman, they increase the price by about 16% or so (6 to 7), and the chance to hit by about 16% or so (50% to 58% means 16% more raw hits). Its a wash. One more guardsman per squad scores a hit per shooting phase, but at 10 points per squad. If you have 6 squads you could have bought a whole other infantry squad, which in addition to having around the same firepower would also have more wounds and count as another scoring unit, making your army 1/6 more resiliant as well as 1/6 more damaging, wheras sharpshooters only makes it 1/6 more damaging.



    Now, on a lascannon squad with 3 HW lascannon teams you're looking at a base cost of 110 points, so adding sharpshooters makes the squad only 9% more expensive while adding 16% to the number of lascannon shots you get, for a benefit of about 7% net cost effectiveness.


    The question comes down to whether you want to spend a doctrine point on roughly 7% more effective heavy weapons squads.

    Jealous Deva on
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