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Angry downstairs neighbor... "We're not dealing with a stable person" Update
FF
Once Upon a TimeIn OaklandRegistered User regular
Once Upon a TimeIn OaklandRegistered User regular
Oh boy! Another apartment living question. (My apologies for the wall of text)
Here's the setup. My girlfriend and I have moved into a 2 bedroom apartment on the second floor. 3 Story building. We've been living there about...5 weeks or so. The building is under new property management and I *think* we're one of or the first tenants to be rented to by the new rental company (The on site property manager is awesome). We also have 3 cats but they're mostly quiet....mostly.
It's looking like we're going to have problems with the neighbor below us. I think in the first or second evening after moving most of our big stuff, I was putting together a couple of Ikea pieces and made some noise that I now realize was unreasonable. Neighbor below us banged on the ceiling, I realized what time it was and stopped all noise creating activity. I figured it was a one time thing since I was being somewhat loud and they were also trying to establish a bit of a dominance thing. (i.e. "Welcome to the apartment, don't make noise".)
A couple of days ago we met one of the neighbors we share a wall with and she told us that they lady below us had come upstairs multiple times to yell at the previous tenant as to why they were making noise. The example she gave was the previous person in our apartment had to get up and use the bathroom late at night and got yelled at for doing so, on multiple occasions.
Flash forward to last night. No complaints from the neighbor since the first night. It's around a quarter 'till midnight and my lady and I are getting ready for bed. One of the cats decides to take a lap around the apartment and speeds from one end to the other and back again. Roughly 5-10 seconds of cat running noise on carpet. I think nothing of it until about 5 seconds after that we hear "hey, HEY *SLAM SLAM SLAM* QUIIIEETT!" It sounded like she was taking a friggin' baseball bat to...something large and metal. It was very loud and sounded like she could have even done damage to her ceiling or wall or whatever she hit. Shit had to have woken up her neighbor at least.
Aside from the cat running (which I'll be trying to do something about, play with them before it gets late, try to tire them out). I think the downstairs ladys response was entirely out of order. I can understand a small bit of banging on the ceiling, but she was screaming at the top of her lungs. Couple that with what I've heard about how she treated the previous tenant, and I'm worried.
Current plan is my girlfriend and I are going to knock on the lady's door and introduce ourselves, apologize for the cat running around, thank her for pointing out when we were being too loud and to ask that she let us know if we're too loud again. Kind of a kill 'em with kindness thing. I also want to talk to the property manager and let him know that the lady has possibly been a problem in the past (I'm fairly sure he doesn't know since he only moved in/took over a few weeks before we signed the lease)
Am I being unreasonable that the lady shouldn't flip out over a cat having a jog for 10 seconds? I know I'm a bit biased from having lived in my parents basement first (4 cats upstairs running around) and then on the first floor of an apartment building, lady above us had a small dog that would run around, but I didn't care.
TL;DR Lady living in the apartment below me overreacted to what I deem normal/not abusive noise. Gonna go the 'kill with kindness route' thoughts?
Edit: One last thing, the lady downstairs also smokes pot or has a friend(s) who do. I'm not out to shit on someones recreation of choice but we were told that the building was drug free and my girlfriend hates the smell. (We smoke, so...another reason I'm not really looking into getting in that fight, though we do it outdoors only and I'm pretty sure the downstairs lady has smoked inside.)
Here's the setup. My girlfriend and I have moved into a 2 bedroom apartment on the second floor. 3 Story building. We've been living there about...5 weeks or so. The building is under new property management and I *think* we're one of or the first tenants to be rented to by the new rental company (The on site property manager is awesome). We also have 3 cats but they're mostly quiet....mostly.
It's looking like we're going to have problems with the neighbor below us. I think in the first or second evening after moving most of our big stuff, I was putting together a couple of Ikea pieces and made some noise that I now realize was unreasonable. Neighbor below us banged on the ceiling, I realized what time it was and stopped all noise creating activity. I figured it was a one time thing since I was being somewhat loud and they were also trying to establish a bit of a dominance thing. (i.e. "Welcome to the apartment, don't make noise".)
A couple of days ago we met one of the neighbors we share a wall with and she told us that they lady below us had come upstairs multiple times to yell at the previous tenant as to why they were making noise. The example she gave was the previous person in our apartment had to get up and use the bathroom late at night and got yelled at for doing so, on multiple occasions.
Flash forward to last night. No complaints from the neighbor since the first night. It's around a quarter 'till midnight and my lady and I are getting ready for bed. One of the cats decides to take a lap around the apartment and speeds from one end to the other and back again. Roughly 5-10 seconds of cat running noise on carpet. I think nothing of it until about 5 seconds after that we hear "hey, HEY *SLAM SLAM SLAM* QUIIIEETT!" It sounded like she was taking a friggin' baseball bat to...something large and metal. It was very loud and sounded like she could have even done damage to her ceiling or wall or whatever she hit. Shit had to have woken up her neighbor at least.
Aside from the cat running (which I'll be trying to do something about, play with them before it gets late, try to tire them out). I think the downstairs ladys response was entirely out of order. I can understand a small bit of banging on the ceiling, but she was screaming at the top of her lungs. Couple that with what I've heard about how she treated the previous tenant, and I'm worried.
Current plan is my girlfriend and I are going to knock on the lady's door and introduce ourselves, apologize for the cat running around, thank her for pointing out when we were being too loud and to ask that she let us know if we're too loud again. Kind of a kill 'em with kindness thing. I also want to talk to the property manager and let him know that the lady has possibly been a problem in the past (I'm fairly sure he doesn't know since he only moved in/took over a few weeks before we signed the lease)
Am I being unreasonable that the lady shouldn't flip out over a cat having a jog for 10 seconds? I know I'm a bit biased from having lived in my parents basement first (4 cats upstairs running around) and then on the first floor of an apartment building, lady above us had a small dog that would run around, but I didn't care.
TL;DR Lady living in the apartment below me overreacted to what I deem normal/not abusive noise. Gonna go the 'kill with kindness route' thoughts?
Edit: One last thing, the lady downstairs also smokes pot or has a friend(s) who do. I'm not out to shit on someones recreation of choice but we were told that the building was drug free and my girlfriend hates the smell. (We smoke, so...another reason I'm not really looking into getting in that fight, though we do it outdoors only and I'm pretty sure the downstairs lady has smoked inside.)
Huh...
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dont do the kindness thing. especially when shes already trying to be the dominate one. telling her to let you know when youre being too loud will only invite her to do it more. i'd say that you need to establish that you're not going to let her act like that and if she continues to do so in that fashion that you will have to take it up with the management. and then tack on something like 'im also considering complaining about the weird smell coming through the floor too.'
that will probably settle it down to the point where it will be a non issue. the problem is that she may get super aggressive and cause even more problems. it can go either way.
The sound of a cat running on carpet set her off? Unless your cat is pushing 100 pounds, your downstairs neighbor is crazy. The fact that she apparently was using a baseball bat on something should reinforce this. Consider going straight to your management company. I am sure they'll love to hear about someone banging on their property.
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Or, more relevent:
Just like if you get a higher floor, you know you're going to have to deal with everyone's weird smells.
Go there and disagree with her, explain to her than in an apartment complex you need to make reasonable allowances for sharing the ceiling and that a reaction like that is only really appropriate for prolonged noises, not for using the bathroom or a cat running around.
Satans..... hints.....
This. If you're not making unreasonable noise (and trust me, a cat on a carpet is NOT unreasonable), then ignore her and wait for her to become problematic. At this point, talk to your landlord and she is the offender, not you. If she goes to the landlord first, let him do what he wants. You're not making noise, you have nothing to prove.
Though I would indeed go to the landlord first, to have the first documented incident. That may help if you do indeed need to defend yourself.
heh. Like I said, I don't care that she's producing a "weird smell". But
I try to err on the side of polite and non-confrontational, so I'm not too enthusiastic about the talking to her (overly kind). My girlfriend is very confrontational though. It was all I could do to convince her to not stomp on the floor
I will be talking to the property manager tonight if I can flag him down. I'm thinking maybe a letter to the lady downstairs for now. Maybe just a factual letter.
Enjoying apple cider vinegar is one thing, smoking pot in a drug-free building is much different. You don't have to put up with illegal activities in your building no matter what floor you live on.
Oh totally. I'd never actually do anything like that. (No matter how much I want to).
What about a letter to the effect of:
Hello {whoever}
We're sorry that you were bothered by the cat running around last night. We'll try to curb the cats running around in the future. Please let us know if you have any concerns.
-FF and his lady
Just something short and to the point? I'd probably do this after talking to the property manager.
Don't give the crazy lady any leverage. Don't admit that you or your cats did anything wrong, because you didn't.
Good call. I'll work on a letter. I still have to talk with my lady about how we're going to do things anyway. I'm thinking some sweet ass professional looking paper, just to make the lady wonder about who's she's dealing with. Apparently the previous tenant in my apartment was a husband/wife lawyer team. :twisted:
How do things like that go usually? Much as I like my city, I'm not imagining the Oakland police dept. will be all that responsive as far as taking a report over the phone...or in any way. Maybe they'll have some automated report taking, uh, thing.
If, say, the cat happens to get worked up again, and you happen to anticipate another inappropriate reaction from downstairs, it might be useful to have an audio recorder handy. If you can capture an instance of her freaking out, and it truly is a vicious an undeserving response to the cat's running, then the record could help you convince the landlord of the weight of the situation.
Nice! I didn't think of that. I'll make sure I have something ready, just in case.
I don't really anticipate much since her freak out seemed to get the message to the cats (they looked pretty confused last night), however one can never guess what a cat might do.
I lived in a place where the woman below us would constantly call management and raise holy hell over noise, to the point we were getting nasty letters weekly threatening fines and all sorts of shenanigans. Funny thing was, more than a few times she called to raise hell over noise when no one was home in our apartment. I told the chick who leased it to go to management and raise hell about it, but she worked there and it was all complicated. Moral of the story, make sure the management knows she's a crazy loon and you're not, or she will cause all sorts of problems for you, and whatever happens, be polite in your dealings with her.
Your alternative is definitely your landlord - I'm pretty sure the lease didnt include free shitstorms. I'd probably look into alternative housing too, as these things never seem to end well from what i've read. It's also much simpler then trying to beat a crazy person at their own game.
Apex: Sadly the kitty in question isn't much of a people person. He'd probably pee on me, heh. I'm really hoping that this lady will stfu or move as we just signed the lease a little over a month ago (it's a 1 year lease). That and we really, really like the apartment/location/manager/space, etc.
Sounds like you're well on your way to resolving this either way.
I'd also advise against a letter - let management tear into her for you. Since they're also new, they'll hopefull realize how crazy she is. Dealing with her directly either verbally or through mail will only get her more riled up imo.
Is it creaking or is she actually able to hear the foot steps?
You should not bend over backwards and try to accommodate her. SHE is being unreasonable.
Honestly? Just talk to her and say, "Look, if the cat thing really bothers you, we'll try to keep it down out of courtesy, but I do think your reaction is unnecessarily rude and loud and you end up making more noise than our cat ever did, bothering even more people in the apartment building."
If she kicks up a fuss about just HOW MUCH NOISE THE CAT MAKES YOU DON'T LIVE IN HER APARTMENT HOW WOULD YOU KNOW WHAT SHE HEARS, just be very frank: "No, you're right, we can't hear what you hear but I also know that we don't own a 300-pound rhino. Like I said, if our cat is THAT noisy, we will do our best to minimize it, but I also want you to acknowledge that your reaction to it is downright rude and unnecessarily loud."
If she doesn't listen, talk to property management. Quite frankly I am sometimes amazed at how some people around here would rather go crying to a third party immediately rather than talk to the person in question about something and try to resolve it as adults, first.
Nonsense. The illegality has nothing to do with why it is offensive to the OP's girlfriend. You could work it subtly into the 'niceness' plan though: "There's no reason we can't get along. I'm perfectly willing to tolerate the smell of the most potent ganja fumes if you can be reasonable about the building's apparently shitty acoustics."
OP, It may also be helpful to have your girlfriend hop around or something while you're in the neighbor's apartment, since it may be an unusually lousy apartment as far as sound is concerned. At least then you'd know what she could hear. If you aren't able to work things out by talking to her (and I anticipate you won't, some people are just pricks) then talk to the management.
Calling the cops about the noise is a last resort, and kind of tricky anyway since you'd have to have them over at night and make enough noise that she'd overreact but not enough to seem unreasonable.
Oh please, I've had my fair share of confrontations with insanity, but assuming that your neighbors will not listen to you and not giving them the chance to resolve it with saved face on both sides is, in my honest opinion, childish. You may have experience with crazy neighbors, but you cannot ASSUME that ALL neighbors you will meet will be unreasonable and will not listen. So she makes a lot of noise when she responds to you, yeah, that's a problem, it doesn't mean she's an outright crazy insane bitch who doesn't listen when confronted. In fact, she probably got that bad because people didn't approach her directly about her behavior and either stomped back or treated her like shit or some such. Sometimes, it's also a matter of the METHOD of confrontation (words chosen, timing, body language, etc).
Is she likely to not listen in this case? Yes. But you don't know for sure. This is being courteous and trying to resolve an issue yourself BEFORE you involve others. There is no NEED to drag more people into the mess without knowing you tried to take care of it yourself the first time.
My point is that if you go to property management without at least TRYING to approach her face-to-face first, she will automatically get defensive and feel like she's being criminalized. If you bring it up to her directly, at least she can put a face to the people upstairs and hears their issues from their own mouths and you can hear her defense if she has one. Then if management comes a-knocking when she does it all again, at least she can be told that they "did ask her to keep her trap shut" or some such.
And I'm sorry but the whole letter thing is laughable. KNOCK ON HER DOOR AND TALK TO HER.
This is a tad bit paranoid.
One in a million's still one, I guess. But I do also read this thread keeping in mind that we only get one half of the story here. Yes, I of course think she's being unreasonable as fuck and that the OP has every reason to want to do something about it, but at the same time, things have a tendency to get blown out of proportion.
Mostly, a face-to-face confrontation lets her express her feelings directly. They may be insane and irrational, but at least SHE will feel that she's had the chance to let you know what she thinks. This automatically makes her easier to work with, no matter the personality, even if you disagree with her in the long-run. This also makes property management's job easier if the OP ends up calling them, as the OP can also say, "apparently she works a ridiculously weird shift so she's especially sensitive about getting some sleep" (as an example) and so property management knows what to expect and, likely, how to approach most effectively.
I will, however, reiterate that a LETTER is a very stupid thing to do in this case. There's a time and place for one-way written confrontations and this is NOT ONE OF THEM.
this is also where I'd make bigger problems for myself.
What I'd do if I weren't me? Lodge noise complaints every single time she acts inapproriately. See, the manager doesn't notice banging on the ceiling, but the manager does notice having to bang on the door of the tenant being noisey.
Having the manager on your side is always a good thing.
I'm starting to lean towards face to face and pick a few lines out of what everybody said. I'm still going to go to management, however. I'm definitely in agreement with being the first party with some paperwork in, even if it's just as a formality.
Quoth the GF "I really just want to go down there and tear into her, I've had a really bad day."
heh
Once again, thank you all for the advice. I'll update when I have more info. We'll probably go talk to the lady. Worst case is the crazy lady spits in my face or something.
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Also this does not sound like a person that could be dealt with reasonably by yourself. In this situation I would deal directly with the property managers or the police. But keep in mind if you call the police and they get her for a noise ordinance violation she could get crazy-bitch vengeful and try the same thing on you.
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