The PVP was never really interesting to me. The PVP in Dark Age of Camelot was infinitely more fun than Guild Wars, and GW was touted to have some of the best PVP out there. Oh you can make a level 20 char with all the skills and stuff so you can jump right into the PVP... Sounds like a great idea. Ugh..
I have never hated an opinion more than yours.
What? You think that success in competition should depend on your mad lootz and how mighty your character's e-cock is? Fuck off. It should depend on the neckbeard behind the controls. What you ask for is horrible game design and it's fucking tragic that it has gained such popularity.
It's because of cunts like you that Guild Wars is ruined.
But didn't making that level 20 character make you immediately gimped compared to the other guys in the Arena?
Nope.
Hmm. Well at least that's how it felt like. You got the gear and some "starter" equipment and was sent on your way to the Arena. But the guys in the Arena, who actually got to 20 themselves, immediately had the advantage on you because they had better gear.
If I'm wrong on that, then my opinion of the game changed infinitely and I'll be willing to accept that GW > WoW then. :P
You are wrong, the PvE equipment is for looks only. Early on, there were a few issues with obscure PvE equipment being marginally better than the PvP equipment, but issues are gone now, IIRC.
The PVP was never really interesting to me. The PVP in Dark Age of Camelot was infinitely more fun than Guild Wars, and GW was touted to have some of the best PVP out there. Oh you can make a level 20 char with all the skills and stuff so you can jump right into the PVP... Sounds like a great idea. Ugh..
I have never hated an opinion more than yours.
What? You think that success in competition should depend on your mad lootz and how mighty your character's e-cock is? Fuck off. It should depend on the neckbeard behind the controls. What you ask for is horrible game design and it's fucking tragic that it has gained such popularity.
It's because of cunts like you that Guild Wars is ruined.
But didn't making that level 20 character make you immediately gimped compared to the other guys in the Arena?
Nope.
Hmm. Well at least that's how it felt like. You got the gear and some "starter" equipment and was sent on your way to the Arena. But the guys in the Arena, who actually got to 20 themselves, immediately had the advantage on you because they had better gear.
If I'm wrong on that, then my opinion of the game changed infinitely and I'll be willing to accept that GW > WoW then. :P
You are wrong, the PvE equipment is for looks only. Early on, there were a few issues with obscure PvE equipment being marginally better than the PvP equipment, but issues are gone now, IIRC.
Had I known that I may have been able to enjoy the game a little more than I did. But, again, I was in beta. Had to wear those aprons.
Scarred me for life. Unfortunately starting a new account on that game won't really do much for me, now will it? I'm sure they have had a drop in sub rates over the past few years.
The PVP was never really interesting to me. The PVP in Dark Age of Camelot was infinitely more fun than Guild Wars, and GW was touted to have some of the best PVP out there. Oh you can make a level 20 char with all the skills and stuff so you can jump right into the PVP... Sounds like a great idea. Ugh..
I have never hated an opinion more than yours.
What? You think that success in competition should depend on your mad lootz and how mighty your character's e-cock is? Fuck off. It should depend on the neckbeard behind the controls. What you ask for is horrible game design and it's fucking tragic that it has gained such popularity.
It's because of cunts like you that Guild Wars is ruined.
But didn't making that level 20 character make you immediately gimped compared to the other guys in the Arena?
Nope.
Hmm. Well at least that's how it felt like. You got the gear and some "starter" equipment and was sent on your way to the Arena. But the guys in the Arena, who actually got to 20 themselves, immediately had the advantage on you because they had better gear.
If I'm wrong on that, then my opinion of the game changed infinitely and I'll be willing to accept that GW > WoW then. :P
Even back when there was a slight difference between PvE weapons and PvP weapons it wasn't a game breaking thing, and these days (and by that I mean it was fixed like years ago) the only real difference is skins. PvE characters in PvP look cooler, but other than that there is no difference at all.
The instant-lv20 gear for PvP characters was always the exact same, statistically, as the very best from the PvE game. PvE character armour was all for looks, but the numbers behind it were the exact same. Weapons were mostly similar, but a very common gripe from the now-dead PvP base was that there were a handful of rarely-useful items that were not on the PvP loadout due to oversight or laziness, and that while characters could carry four weapon loadouts, PvP characters were only generated with two.
For as long as I played, this was never fixed, though it may be now.
PvP characters were at something of a disadvantage in that ArenaNet are functionally retarded, and after beta skills had to be unlocked either through a tonne of grinding in the PvE game or a fucktonne of grinding in PvP. This disadvantage was not unique to PvE characters, but more a disadvantage to new players, or those who don't want to grind to be competitive.
The PVP was never really interesting to me. The PVP in Dark Age of Camelot was infinitely more fun than Guild Wars, and GW was touted to have some of the best PVP out there. Oh you can make a level 20 char with all the skills and stuff so you can jump right into the PVP... Sounds like a great idea. Ugh..
I have never hated an opinion more than yours.
What? You think that success in competition should depend on your mad lootz and how mighty your character's e-cock is? Fuck off. It should depend on the neckbeard behind the controls. What you ask for is horrible game design and it's fucking tragic that it has gained such popularity.
It's because of cunts like you that Guild Wars is ruined.
But didn't making that level 20 character make you immediately gimped compared to the other guys in the Arena?
Nope.
Hmm. Well at least that's how it felt like. You got the gear and some "starter" equipment and was sent on your way to the Arena. But the guys in the Arena, who actually got to 20 themselves, immediately had the advantage on you because they had better gear.
If I'm wrong on that, then my opinion of the game changed infinitely and I'll be willing to accept that GW > WoW then. :P
You are wrong, the PvE equipment is for looks only. Early on, there were a few issues with obscure PvE equipment being marginally better than the PvP equipment, but issues are gone now, IIRC.
Had I known that I may have been able to enjoy the game a little more than I did. But, again, I was in beta. Had to wear those aprons.
Scarred me for life. Unfortunately starting a new account on that game won't really do much for me, now will it? I'm sure they have had a drop in sub rates over the past few years.
Plenty of people still play.
And Mumbly, the grind was at least better than the grind was in Beta. God, having to find skill rings for your particular class? Fuck that shit. After beta all you had to do was get into a reasonably good HA team and you'd be rolling in unlocks.
I'd say the biggest barrier to entry these days in PvP isn't skill based but grind based. How many HA teams require people to be a set rank to join these days? All of them.
The PVP was never really interesting to me. The PVP in Dark Age of Camelot was infinitely more fun than Guild Wars, and GW was touted to have some of the best PVP out there. Oh you can make a level 20 char with all the skills and stuff so you can jump right into the PVP... Sounds like a great idea. Ugh..
I have never hated an opinion more than yours.
What? You think that success in competition should depend on your mad lootz and how mighty your character's e-cock is? Fuck off. It should depend on the neckbeard behind the controls. What you ask for is horrible game design and it's fucking tragic that it has gained such popularity.
It's because of cunts like you that Guild Wars is ruined.
But didn't making that level 20 character make you immediately gimped compared to the other guys in the Arena?
Nope.
Hmm. Well at least that's how it felt like. You got the gear and some "starter" equipment and was sent on your way to the Arena. But the guys in the Arena, who actually got to 20 themselves, immediately had the advantage on you because they had better gear.
If I'm wrong on that, then my opinion of the game changed infinitely and I'll be willing to accept that GW > WoW then. :P
You are wrong, the PvE equipment is for looks only. Early on, there were a few issues with obscure PvE equipment being marginally better than the PvP equipment, but issues are gone now, IIRC.
Had I known that I may have been able to enjoy the game a little more than I did. But, again, I was in beta. Had to wear those aprons.
Scarred me for life. Unfortunately starting a new account on that game won't really do much for me, now will it? I'm sure they have had a drop in sub rates over the past few years.
Plenty of people still play.
And Mumbly, the grind was at least better than the grind was in Beta. God, having to find skill rings for your particular class? Fuck that shit. After beta all you had to do was get into a reasonably good HA team and you'd be rolling in unlocks.
I'd say the biggest barrier to entry these days in PvP isn't skill based but grind based. How many HA teams require people to be a set rank to join these days? All of them.
This wouldn't be so damned frustrating if it weren't impossible to do this grind without a PVP guild.
Unlocking skills for PvE characters in beta blew, and the final implementation was a lot better than some of the interim ideas (skill rings!), but PvP characters used to start with everything. And that's how it should have stayed.
Guys let's not dogpile on the poor man, even though he has poor taste in games.
It's true that the mission areas feel empty. I blame heroes for this. Apparently, you'll only get one hero in Guild Wars 2, which is good, because heroes have made other players unnecessary.
Also, for a game that's supposed to come out next year, there is surprisingly little information about it.
The PVP was never really interesting to me. The PVP in Dark Age of Camelot was infinitely more fun than Guild Wars, and GW was touted to have some of the best PVP out there. Oh you can make a level 20 char with all the skills and stuff so you can jump right into the PVP... Sounds like a great idea. Ugh..
I have never hated an opinion more than yours.
What? You think that success in competition should depend on your mad lootz and how mighty your character's e-cock is? Fuck off. It should depend on the neckbeard behind the controls. What you ask for is horrible game design and it's fucking tragic that it has gained such popularity.
It's because of cunts like you that Guild Wars is ruined.
But didn't making that level 20 character make you immediately gimped compared to the other guys in the Arena?
Nope.
Hmm. Well at least that's how it felt like. You got the gear and some "starter" equipment and was sent on your way to the Arena. But the guys in the Arena, who actually got to 20 themselves, immediately had the advantage on you because they had better gear.
If I'm wrong on that, then my opinion of the game changed infinitely and I'll be willing to accept that GW > WoW then. :P
You are wrong, the PvE equipment is for looks only. Early on, there were a few issues with obscure PvE equipment being marginally better than the PvP equipment, but issues are gone now, IIRC.
Had I known that I may have been able to enjoy the game a little more than I did. But, again, I was in beta. Had to wear those aprons.
Scarred me for life. Unfortunately starting a new account on that game won't really do much for me, now will it? I'm sure they have had a drop in sub rates over the past few years.
Plenty of people still play.
And Mumbly, the grind was at least better than the grind was in Beta. God, having to find skill rings for your particular class? Fuck that shit. After beta all you had to do was get into a reasonably good HA team and you'd be rolling in unlocks.
I'd say the biggest barrier to entry these days in PvP isn't skill based but grind based. How many HA teams require people to be a set rank to join these days? All of them.
This wouldn't be so damned frustrating if it weren't impossible to do this grind without a PVP guild.
Yeah. So you have to try and grind up with flavor-of-the-month build groups who don't fucking care about rank as long as you know your role. I think the rank grind more than anything kept IWAY going as long as it did. I know that's how my girlfriend ranked up. I just never bothered. I was in a high rank PvP guild so I just played with them ~shrugs~
Guys let's not dogpile on the poor man, even though he has poor taste in games.
It's true that the mission areas feel empty. I blame heroes for this. Apparently, you'll only get one hero in Guild Wars 2, which is good, because heroes have made other players unnecessary.
Also, for a game that's supposed to come out next year, there is surprisingly little information about it.
Ah, we aren't dog piling any more. We've explained where his logic went astray.
Unlocking skills for PvE characters in beta blew, and the final implementation was a lot better than some of the interim ideas (skill rings!), but PvP characters used to start with everything. And that's how it should have stayed.
Skill necklaces were awesome, though they made you completely overpowered.
For as long as I played it, I believed that the game hit its peak in the mid-beta stages, changed for the worse once retail hit, and rapidly descended into MMO-alike shit.
The developers were initially pushing the game on its PvP content. Phrases like "Skill over time played!" were liberally bandied about - even on the beta boxart - and players were constantly assured that a brand new account would not have the slightest advantage over one with a hundred hours played. Guild Wars was frequently compared to online FPS games - by PR folks, community managers and even the developers.
For most of beta, this held true. But as release crept ever closer, it dawned that the people with control of ArenaNet's moneybags had their sights on Blizzard's favourite cash cow for some time. Release came, and there was no new PvP content. Excessive grinding in the PvE game was required to compete in PvP. An account with a hundred hours played was not just an advantage, it was a necessity. Guild Wars did not only have the potential to be a competitive online RPG, it was, for a long time, a competitive online RPG. But ArenaNet repeatedly showed that they just did not care about competition. Content patches and expansions gave dozens of maps and hundreds of hours of gameplay to the PvE game, while PvP got precisely dick. To my knowledge, the only expansion with notable PvP content - Factions - added four (?) glorified Random Arena maps and a semi-random team gameplay mode (with one map, which had multiple stages, similar to Team Fortress 2's Hydro) which was never expanded on.
I looked at the Guild Wars Wiki today - I miss the game, or rather its promise, from time to time - and was upset, but not surprised, to see that no new PvP content had been added since what little came with Factions, all those years ago.
As far as I know, Guild Wars' competitive scene died shortly after Factions. There is no doubt in my mind that had the developers stuck with their original path, it would still be alive today.
I think you're being a little harsh. At release PvE and PvP were inextricably linked. You unlocked in PvE and played in PvP. Then they added Balthazar faction, letting you unlock PvP stuff without ever touching PvE. Then they basically doubled the rate at which you earn it. Then doubled it again. Then increased the cap based on PvP titles. Yeah, I know it's not an insta-unlock, but now you don't need to play long at all to get enough faction to unlock an entire build.
In Factions they added the alliance battles to PvP, and while you might not enjoy it I thought it picked up a lot of fun value when they split it into 4 man squads. In Nightfall they added hero battles, which were actually quite fun (until the effective 2 healer builds started coming out).
They've also been tweaking GvG the whole way through, changing out base NPCs, updating the Guild Lord, changing the time and effect of Sudden Death, etc. They also completely overhauled Random Arenas to make them more fun: adding a penalty for dropping out, introducing a timer so matches don't go on forever. Then there was the change really early on to put 10 win RA teams into Team Arena.
RandomEngy on
Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
I would not say that I was being too harsh, though I do recognise that PvP did recieve some attention, mainly in the form of the aforementioned tweaks and necessary skill balances, which the development team was very good at addressing (remember when KCHS ruined the game for a short period? Hoo boy).
I can let the lack of maps and dearth of PvP content other than skills in expansions slide, but I can't defend the unlocking mechanic. It's contrary to any competitive game's goal, and serves only to appease PvE players. To me, if any amount of time is required to "prep" an account for competitive play, the game has failed to be competitive. I would levy the same complaint at Team Fortress 2, but at least in that game third party applications can be used to bypass the unlocking process, and the timescale for unlocking everything manually can be measured in minutes rather than days.
I can definitely understand that complaint. But in that regard it has gotten better since release, not worse.
And man, reading the patch notes for yesterday makes me want to play again. An elite Bull's Strike? Archer's signet doubling condition length? Awesome.
RandomEngy on
Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
Actually, Engy, since you're watching this thread could you jog my memory: Was it you that suggested I use Oath Shot to recharge spirits quickly, thus giving me something to brag about in school and cementing my reputation as "That guy who needs another hobby" for the remainder of my student life?
It was certainly a deep-voiced American, and I'd put money on it being you, but my memory's faulty on account of all the FPSBrain I've been doping myself on.
That seems likely. Ever since I found out about the skill I was obsessed with it, and remember babbling about it to you guys. Though it's been nerfed now.
RandomEngy on
Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
Posts
Just an example from years ago.
I don't really know cos I quit years ago.
Like i said GW is about Build not skills.
Good reason why almost every silly team in HA and GvG has the same silly build.
Had I known that I may have been able to enjoy the game a little more than I did. But, again, I was in beta. Had to wear those aprons.
Scarred me for life. Unfortunately starting a new account on that game won't really do much for me, now will it? I'm sure they have had a drop in sub rates over the past few years.
Even back when there was a slight difference between PvE weapons and PvP weapons it wasn't a game breaking thing, and these days (and by that I mean it was fixed like years ago) the only real difference is skins. PvE characters in PvP look cooler, but other than that there is no difference at all.
For as long as I played, this was never fixed, though it may be now.
PvP characters were at something of a disadvantage in that ArenaNet are functionally retarded, and after beta skills had to be unlocked either through a tonne of grinding in the PvE game or a fucktonne of grinding in PvP. This disadvantage was not unique to PvE characters, but more a disadvantage to new players, or those who don't want to grind to be competitive.
At the lower level they were definitely dominated by FOTM, but I have no idea what it was like competitively and what they've changed now.
GW is a dying game except for people who HA and GvG
Ahhh. I understand what you guys mean now.
Plenty of people still play.
And Mumbly, the grind was at least better than the grind was in Beta. God, having to find skill rings for your particular class? Fuck that shit. After beta all you had to do was get into a reasonably good HA team and you'd be rolling in unlocks.
I'd say the biggest barrier to entry these days in PvP isn't skill based but grind based. How many HA teams require people to be a set rank to join these days? All of them.
Are you really just shadow-complaining that people who grind loot for hours and hours don't get an advantage?
It's true that the mission areas feel empty. I blame heroes for this. Apparently, you'll only get one hero in Guild Wars 2, which is good, because heroes have made other players unnecessary.
Also, for a game that's supposed to come out next year, there is surprisingly little information about it.
Yeah. So you have to try and grind up with flavor-of-the-month build groups who don't fucking care about rank as long as you know your role. I think the rank grind more than anything kept IWAY going as long as it did. I know that's how my girlfriend ranked up. I just never bothered. I was in a high rank PvP guild so I just played with them ~shrugs~
Ah, we aren't dog piling any more. We've explained where his logic went astray.
Yeah, heroes kinda killed PvE. :-/
Skill necklaces were awesome, though they made you completely overpowered.
I think you're being a little harsh. At release PvE and PvP were inextricably linked. You unlocked in PvE and played in PvP. Then they added Balthazar faction, letting you unlock PvP stuff without ever touching PvE. Then they basically doubled the rate at which you earn it. Then doubled it again. Then increased the cap based on PvP titles. Yeah, I know it's not an insta-unlock, but now you don't need to play long at all to get enough faction to unlock an entire build.
In Factions they added the alliance battles to PvP, and while you might not enjoy it I thought it picked up a lot of fun value when they split it into 4 man squads. In Nightfall they added hero battles, which were actually quite fun (until the effective 2 healer builds started coming out).
They've also been tweaking GvG the whole way through, changing out base NPCs, updating the Guild Lord, changing the time and effect of Sudden Death, etc. They also completely overhauled Random Arenas to make them more fun: adding a penalty for dropping out, introducing a timer so matches don't go on forever. Then there was the change really early on to put 10 win RA teams into Team Arena.
Some PvP'ers have come back now that they have separated PvE and PvP skill changes.
I can let the lack of maps and dearth of PvP content other than skills in expansions slide, but I can't defend the unlocking mechanic. It's contrary to any competitive game's goal, and serves only to appease PvE players. To me, if any amount of time is required to "prep" an account for competitive play, the game has failed to be competitive. I would levy the same complaint at Team Fortress 2, but at least in that game third party applications can be used to bypass the unlocking process, and the timescale for unlocking everything manually can be measured in minutes rather than days.
And man, reading the patch notes for yesterday makes me want to play again. An elite Bull's Strike? Archer's signet doubling condition length? Awesome.
It was certainly a deep-voiced American, and I'd put money on it being you, but my memory's faulty on account of all the FPSBrain I've been doping myself on.