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Obama: Not just a pretty face?

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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    MrMister wrote:
    Furthermore, let's elect a black president already. Jesus.

    Well, Jesus was black, but I'm not sure whether or not he shares my liberal values.

    Shinto on
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    MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Shinto wrote:
    MrMister wrote:
    Furthermore, let's elect a black president already. Jesus.

    Well, Jesus was black, but I'm not sure whether or not he shares my liberal values.

    I'm pretty much ready for a woman, too. They are half our population.

    MrMister on
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    MrMister wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    MrMister wrote:
    Furthermore, let's elect a black president already. Jesus.

    Well, Jesus was black, but I'm not sure whether or not he shares my liberal values.

    I'm pretty much ready for a woman, too. They are half our population.

    Seriously, lets get Oprah on the ballot so we can kill two birds with one stone.

    On a more serious note: With the Democrats taking power more women politicians at the state/congressional level will be building resumes for president since the Democratic party has more female politicians.

    Shinto on
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    MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Shinto wrote:
    On a more serious note: With the Democrats taking power more women politicians at the state/congressional level will be building resumes for president since the Democratic party has more female politicians.

    First female majority leader in the house gave me a warm, fuzzy feeling.

    MrMister on
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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I honestly just don't think hillary(ever) or obama(in 08) is capable of winning a genral election. I think he has a lot of potential, like him a lot and want him to win. I think if he runs in 08 he is basicly throwing his political career away and that the party would be losing an asset.

    I just don't think he could win(especially if Giuliani runs) or survive the loss.

    I'd probably vote for anyone else in a primary.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    redx wrote:
    I honestly just don't think hillary(ever) or obama(in 08) is capable of winning a genral election. I think he has a lot of potential, like him a lot and want him to win. I think if he runs in 08 he is basicly throwing his political career away and that the party would be losing an asset.

    I just don't think he could win(especially if Giuliani runs) or survive the loss.

    I'd probably vote for anyone else in a primary.

    I don't think that a Republican base preoccuppied with returning to its conservative roots will elect Rudy Guiliani. Or John McCain.

    In fact, I expect who ever emerges from the Republican primary to not be at all appealling to moderates - and without defense issues to hold moderates and conservatives together the Republicans cannot form a winning coalition.

    Shinto on
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    MrMister wrote:
    Most of what I know about Obama is that my friend from Chicago wants to bear his children. I generally trust her, so by transitivity I have a favorable opinion of him.

    Do you also want to jump his bones?

    moniker on
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    AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    MrMister wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    On a more serious note: With the Democrats taking power more women politicians at the state/congressional level will be building resumes for president since the Democratic party has more female politicians.

    First female majority leader in the house gave me a warm, fuzzy feeling.
    Nancy Pelosi is pretty awesome. Check out this AP story:
    Franklin Roosevelt had his first hundred days.

    House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi is thinking 100 hours, time enough, she says, to begin to "drain the swamp" after more than a decade of Republican rule.

    As in the first 100 hours the House meets after Democrats — in her fondest wish — win control in the Nov. 7 midterm elections and Pelosi takes the gavel as the first Madam Speaker in history.

    Day One: Put new rules in place to "break the link between lobbyists and legislation."

    Day Two: Enact all the recommendations made by the commission that investigated the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

    Time remaining until 100 hours: Raise the minimum wage to $7.25 an hour, maybe in one step. Cut the interest rate on student loans in half. Allow the government to negotiate directly with the pharmaceutical companies for lower drug prices for Medicare patients.

    Broaden the types of stem cell research allowed with federal funds — "I hope with a veto-proof majority," she added in an Associated Press interview Thursday.

    All the days after that: "Pay as you go," meaning no increasing the deficit, whether the issue is middle class tax relief, health care or some other priority.

    To do that, she said, Bush-era tax cuts would have to be rolled back for those above "a certain level." She mentioned annual incomes of $250,000 or $300,000 a year and higher, and said tax rates for those individuals might revert to those of the Clinton era. Details will have to be worked out, she emphasized.

    "We believe in the marketplace," Pelosi said of Democrats, then drew a contrast with Republicans. "They have only rewarded wealth, not work."

    "We must share the benefits of our wealth" beyond the privileged few, she added.

    Azio on
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Yeah, those are some nice bullet points. I'd like to see the legislation to back it, though.

    moniker on
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    GigatonGigaton Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Shinto wrote:
    MrMister wrote:
    Furthermore, let's elect a black president already. Jesus.

    Well, Jesus was black, but I'm not sure whether or not he shares my liberal values.

    I'm assuming that fist part was a joke too right? Jesus was Middle-Eastern Semitic, not black.

    Gigaton on
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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Shinto wrote:
    I don't think that a Republican base preoccuppied with returning to its conservative roots will elect Rudy Guiliani. Or John McCain.

    In fact, I expect who ever emerges from the Republican primary to not be at all appealling to moderates - and without defense issues to hold moderates and conservatives together the Republicans cannot form a winning coalition.

    I hope you're right. I'd like to see the republicans throw an election away because they decided to run away from the middle.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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    MutePrezMutePrez Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Gigaton wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    MrMister wrote:
    Furthermore, let's elect a black president already. Jesus.

    Well, Jesus was black, but I'm not sure whether or not he shares my liberal values.

    I'm assuming that fist part was a joke too right? Jesus was Middle-Eastern Semitic, not black.

    /dense

    Obama...yes. I'd vote for him - but I'd rather vote for Biden.

    MutePrez on
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    MutePrez wrote:
    Obama...yes. I'd vote for him - but I'd rather vote for Biden.

    They aren't mutually exclusive. :D

    moniker on
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    GigatonGigaton Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    MutePrez wrote:
    Gigaton wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    MrMister wrote:
    Furthermore, let's elect a black president already. Jesus.

    Well, Jesus was black, but I'm not sure whether or not he shares my liberal values.

    I'm assuming that fist part was a joke too right? Jesus was Middle-Eastern Semitic, not black.

    /dense

    Obama...yes. I'd vote for him - but I'd rather vote for Biden.

    You'd be surprised at what some people don't know. Most Americans don't even know that in many cases Arabs/Middle Eastern people are considered white.

    Gigaton on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2006
    BlackDog85 wrote:
    I do have to say, I kind of feel bad about something: quite a few Democratic names are often put down these days, mainly due to their being involved in the "failures" of 2000 and 2004 (i.e. Gore, Kerry, Edwards).

    Not to say that I'd want any/all of them running in 2008, but I really don't have much against those guys, Gore and Edwards especially. Hell, when you get down to it, interesting cases can be made that both Gore and Kerry actually outperformed Bush at the polls, but this thread is neither here nor there on that subject matter.

    But, since they're associated with losing to Bush, I don't see any of them really going balls to the wall on the national level again, and it's kind of a pity.

    Still, I can definately see the argument that, after six years in the proverbial desert, it probably is time for the Dems to put a new face forward, and, depending on how he performs over the next couple of years, Obama may well be that face.

    Agrfeed. Like you, I don't see the sense in running a damaged candidate who's had a shot already if we have someone fresh in the wings who might have a better shot. On the other hand, we Democrats havea nasty history of eating our onw for no reason other than they ran a losing battle. I continue to hold Gore, Edwards and Kerry in high regard for their attempts, and my opposition to Lieberman has nothing to do with his failed bid.

    Irond Will on
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    MutePrezMutePrez Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Gigaton wrote:
    MutePrez wrote:
    Gigaton wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    MrMister wrote:
    Furthermore, let's elect a black president already. Jesus.

    Well, Jesus was black, but I'm not sure whether or not he shares my liberal values.

    I'm assuming that fist part was a joke too right? Jesus was Middle-Eastern Semitic, not black.

    /dense

    Obama...yes. I'd vote for him - but I'd rather vote for Biden.

    You'd be surprised at what some people don't know. Most Americans don't even know that in many cases Arabs/Middle Eastern people are considered white.

    No, I wouldn't be. But it was pretty obvious he was making a joke.

    MutePrez on
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    Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Shinto wrote:
    redx wrote:
    I honestly just don't think hillary(ever) or obama(in 08) is capable of winning a genral election. I think he has a lot of potential, like him a lot and want him to win. I think if he runs in 08 he is basicly throwing his political career away and that the party would be losing an asset.

    I just don't think he could win(especially if Giuliani runs) or survive the loss.

    I'd probably vote for anyone else in a primary.

    I don't think that a Republican base preoccuppied with returning to its conservative roots will elect Rudy Guiliani. Or John McCain.

    In fact, I expect who ever emerges from the Republican primary to not be at all appealling to moderates - and without defense issues to hold moderates and conservatives together the Republicans cannot form a winning coalition.
    So they're going to ressurect Barry Goldwater

    Target Practice on
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    GigatonGigaton Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    MutePrez wrote:
    Gigaton wrote:
    MutePrez wrote:
    Gigaton wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    MrMister wrote:
    Furthermore, let's elect a black president already. Jesus.

    Well, Jesus was black, but I'm not sure whether or not he shares my liberal values.

    I'm assuming that fist part was a joke too right? Jesus was Middle-Eastern Semitic, not black.

    /dense

    Obama...yes. I'd vote for him - but I'd rather vote for Biden.

    You'd be surprised at what some people don't know. Most Americans don't even know that in many cases Arabs/Middle Eastern people are considered white.

    No, I wouldn't be. But it was pretty obvious he was making a joke.

    Yeah, if only I somehow mentioned that I thought he was joking too...

    Gigaton on
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    MutePrezMutePrez Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Shinto wrote:
    redx wrote:
    I honestly just don't think hillary(ever) or obama(in 08) is capable of winning a genral election. I think he has a lot of potential, like him a lot and want him to win. I think if he runs in 08 he is basicly throwing his political career away and that the party would be losing an asset.

    I just don't think he could win(especially if Giuliani runs) or survive the loss.

    I'd probably vote for anyone else in a primary.

    I don't think that a Republican base preoccuppied with returning to its conservative roots will elect Rudy Guiliani. Or John McCain.

    In fact, I expect who ever emerges from the Republican primary to not be at all appealling to moderates - and without defense issues to hold moderates and conservatives together the Republicans cannot form a winning coalition.
    So they're going to ressurect Barry Goldwater

    Oh man - Goldwater vs Obama. Wasn't Goldwater an outspoken racist?

    MutePrez on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2006
    So they're going to ressurect Barry Goldwater

    I don't know that Goldwater is the kind of Conservative Roots they're going for. Hell, I don't even know what they mean by "Conservative Roots" anymore.

    Irond Will on
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    MutePrez wrote:
    Oh man - Goldwater vs Obama. Wasn't Goldwater an outspoken racist?

    No, that was LBJ. I'm pretty sure Goldwater would have to join the Democratic party if he wanted to survive a pubbie primary. He was pro gays in the military, gay marriage, and women's choice.

    moniker on
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    mccmcc glitch Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    So they're going to ressurect Barry Goldwater

    They already did. They called it "George W. Bush"

    mcc on
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    hambonehambone Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    mcc wrote:
    So they're going to ressurect Barry Goldwater

    They already did. They called it "George W. Bush"

    What?

    The Bush administration is all Nixonite. The Goldwater-style paleoconservatives are lurking in the margins.



    On a completely different matter:
    What do black people think of Obama?

    hambone on
    Just a bunch of intoxicated pigeons.
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    mccmcc glitch Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    See, when I think of Barry Goldwater, I think of anti-intellectualism and blowing things up.

    mcc on
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    hambonehambone Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Well, yeah, there's that. But he was also one of the last prominent Republicans who really believed in "small government", both fiscally and morally.

    hambone on
    Just a bunch of intoxicated pigeons.
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    mccmcc glitch Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    Point.

    Although he did seem to have a bit of that perplexing "small government, big military" thing going on that you can still see in conservatives today.

    mcc on
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    mcc wrote:
    Point.

    Although he did seem to have a bit of that perplexing "small government, big military" thing going on that you can still see in conservatives today.

    Yeah, but he was in office when the Ruskies just got the A-bomb and had Sputnik hovering overhead. Take a look at his activism later on and I'd say he's pretty okay. From what I'm aware of that is. That's why I kind of want to read up on him, so far I like him and he's perfect to point out the hypocrisy of the GOP since he was labeled 'liberal' in the 90's for his views. The father of the modern conservative movement.

    moniker on
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    hambonehambone Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    His book, Conscience of a Conservative is on my long-list of books to eventually read. It seems like one of those "important documents of our times" kind of things.

    hambone on
    Just a bunch of intoxicated pigeons.
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2006
    moniker wrote:
    mcc wrote:
    Point.

    Although he did seem to have a bit of that perplexing "small government, big military" thing going on that you can still see in conservatives today.

    Yeah, but he was in office when the Ruskies just got the A-bomb and had Sputnik hovering overhead. Take a look at his activism later on and I'd say he's pretty okay. From what I'm aware of that is. That's why I kind of want to read up on him, so far I like him and he's perfect to point out the hypocrisy of the GOP since he was labeled 'liberal' in the 90's for his views. The father of the modern conservative movement.

    He really only became palatable after his grandson came out as gay, and he was forced to reconsider his views on snuffing homos. Goldwater is seen as a hero to a lot of the "Conservative movement" and a lot of his philosophies ended up influencing Reagan's speechwriters (since Reagan's policies were never even close to "Conservative").

    But Barry was, it seems, basically a mean, half-crazy Arizona libertarian - all hard edges and guns and teeth.

    Irond Will on
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    Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Barry Goldwater once lamented that in 50 years (I think this was in 1990 or so) there'll likely be an unbroken line of urban development from Bullhead City (on the Northwest end of the state) to Tucson.

    ...that's about the only good thing I have to say about him.

    Sad thing is, based on current trends, he may very well have been right. Although 2040 sounds a little early for it.

    Target Practice on
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    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Obama is too young.

    Sam on
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    Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Sam wrote:
    Obama is too young.
    No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.
    Wikipedia wrote:
    Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. (born August 4, 1961) is the junior U.S. Senator from Illinois.

    2006 - 1961 = 45

    ...I'm thinkin' you're wrong.

    JFK was younger, incidentally.

    Target Practice on
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    BlackDog85BlackDog85 Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    To my knowledge, Goldwater wasn't an outspoken racist; rather, he was in favor of allowing each state to pass their own civil rights laws, or lack thereof (again, if I remember correctly).

    Unforuntaely for him, that gave him the support of the Ku Klux Klan during the race with Johnson, due to Johnson signing off on the Civil Rights Act.

    I do agree that my main point of contention against Goldwater is the aura of anti-intellectualism he seemed to give off; not that he wasn't intelligent himself (quite the contrary), but I feel it's carried over too much into this century, much to the harm of the nation.

    BlackDog85 on
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    Wii Code: 5700 4466 3616 6981 (PM if y'all add me)
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    DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    A lot of people think that more time in the senate would help him be a better leader. I guess I don't get that. He's said in an interview that the thing that shocked him most about Washington was how little serious debate goes on in the Senate. It's just a lot of yes/no voting, and let's face it - we trust every American citizen to do as much during any given election.

    Delzhand on
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    SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Delzhand wrote:
    A lot of people think that more time in the senate would help him be a better leader. I guess I don't get that. He's said in an interview that the thing that shocked him most about Washington was how little serious debate goes on in the Senate. It's just a lot of yes/no voting, and let's face it - we trust every American citizen to do as much during any given election.

    Watch C-SPAN sometime. Or is it C-SPAN 2? Either way, check it out.

    Schrodinger on
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    SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    New study:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15667442/site/newsweek/page/3/
    "When it comes to specific potential candidates, the ladies have it. New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton registers the highest level of strong support, with 33 percent of registered voters saying there’s a good chance they would vote for her and 20 percent saying there’s some chance. But she also has high negatives: 45 percent of registered voters say there’s no chance they would vote for her. Similarly, 24 percent of registered voters say there’s a good chance they would vote for Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and 27 percent says there’s some chance; but 43 percent say there’s no chance.

    Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Arizona Sen. John McCain have lower negatives: 24 percent of registered voters say there’s a good chance they would vote for Giuliani, 30 percent say there’s some chance, and 32 percent say there’s no chance. Twenty percent say there’s a good chance they would vote for McCain, 34 percent say there’s some chance, and 32 percent say there’s no chance.

    Twenty percent of voters also say there’s a good chance they would vote for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, while 19 percent say there’s some chance and 24 percent say there’s no chance. More than a third of voters, 34 percent, say they’ve never heard of him."

    I'm not particularily worried about the 34% that hasn't heard of him (How many people heard of John Kerry pre-04?), and being a fresh face could benefit tremondously with a disgusted public. What's interesting is that even with the 34% who hasn't heard of him, he has the same "good chance" as McCain, which can only go up, and nearly the same as Rudy and Condie. He also has the lowest "no chance," but that can go up as well.

    Hilalry has the highest chance of getting elected right now, but I don't think there's anyway to overcome the people who hate her, meaning that she pretty much needs a clean sweep among the people who don't.

    Schrodinger on
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    mccmcc glitch Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    Russ Feingold announced today that he is NOT running for president in 2008. (He appears to have simply noticed that all of a sudden as of last tuesday his position as Only Liberal Democrat In The Senate actually started being worth something, and there was no good reason to throw it away by wasting the next two years on a chancy presidential run.)

    This means that Obama is pretty much the only potential candidate left with any credibility among "progressives" (whatever those are).
    "When it comes to specific potential candidates, the ladies have it. New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton registers the highest level of strong support, with 33 percent of registered voters saying there’s a good chance they would vote for her and 20 percent saying there’s some chance. But she also has high negatives: 45 percent of registered voters say there’s no chance they would vote for her. Similarly, 24 percent of registered voters say there’s a good chance they would vote for Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and 27 percent says there’s some chance; but 43 percent say there’s no chance.
    Holy the crap. Even Condoleeza Rice is less hated than Hillary.
    You know, come to think of it, Obama's four years in the Senate don't sound so bad considering that the Democrats' other alternative is a person with... eight years in the Senate. And Obama's at least got elected experience outside the Senate...

    mcc on
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    I'm not particularily worried about the 34% that hasn't heard of him (How many people heard of John Kerry pre-04?)

    I'm not disputing your overall point, but anyone paying attention during the 1992 primary knows who John Kerry was. He ran for president then also.

    Shinto on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Shinto wrote:
    I'm not particularily worried about the 34% that hasn't heard of him (How many people heard of John Kerry pre-04?)

    I'm not disputing your overall point, but anyone paying attention during the 1992 primary knows who John Kerry was. He ran for president then also.
    How many people payed attention during the 1992 primary?

    Couscous on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2006
    titmouse wrote:
    Shinto wrote:
    I'm not particularily worried about the 34% that hasn't heard of him (How many people heard of John Kerry pre-04?)

    I'm not disputing your overall point, but anyone paying attention during the 1992 primary knows who John Kerry was. He ran for president then also.
    How many people payed attention during the 1992 primary?
    I did, but I remember it coming down to Tsongas, Brown and Clinton. I was a Tsongas man, since I apparently like my dems liberal and unelectable.

    I really think Mike Dukakis has a good shot this year.

    Irond Will on
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