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Home Theater? In A BOX?! (onkyo)
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Mouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
Mouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
Alright, I have a PS3 and a Samsung 56" DLP, but I need some sound.
Now, I mostly read that HTiB is not the way to go, but after reading some reviews about this (Onkyo HT-S9100-THX) I thought hey, I've been procrastinating on doing audio research because there's SO much to learn and SO many opinions, why not just take the simple route?
I am 99% sure this will do everything I need, this thread is to a) make sure and b) get some opinions. This could be general discussion as well as I haven't seen anything for Home Theatres in here (sorry if I missed something)
How does 7.1 get set up? I've never seen one. I'm looking to get the best audio out of my PS3 for the price (it's on Newegg for $799 right now) and I know Onkyo is supposed to be a trusted brand.
Thanks folks, discuss away.
Now, I mostly read that HTiB is not the way to go, but after reading some reviews about this (Onkyo HT-S9100-THX) I thought hey, I've been procrastinating on doing audio research because there's SO much to learn and SO many opinions, why not just take the simple route?
I am 99% sure this will do everything I need, this thread is to a) make sure and b) get some opinions. This could be general discussion as well as I haven't seen anything for Home Theatres in here (sorry if I missed something)
How does 7.1 get set up? I've never seen one. I'm looking to get the best audio out of my PS3 for the price (it's on Newegg for $799 right now) and I know Onkyo is supposed to be a trusted brand.
Thanks folks, discuss away.
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However, if you happen to be looking for something a little less massive and room-conquering, consider this:
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HTCT100-Sound-Bar-Sub-Woofer/dp/B0015HS1HQ
This thing is a BEAST. And in a room where running wires is a huge pain, this thing is a breeze, sounds amazing, and has lots of inputs for something in its price range.
The one you're looking at is obviously very nice. Find out if the receiver can actually group all the video connections going into it into a single HDMI output or if it's only passthrough, though.
I will say that I had two problems with the refurb. 1) They gave me the wrong remote. It worked well enough but I had to change inputs on the receiver itself. They replaced this at no charge. 2) One of my speakers was busted when I received it. I dicked around trying to overlook it with receiver settings and whatnot, but playing Dead Space made me realized how fucked it was. Finally, 6 weeks or so after receiving it, I called about it. Had to send it to the repair center. It was replaced for free in about 10 days, but I had to pay to ship it there (about $7).
TL;DR: Caveat emptor, but I'd recommend getting a refurb.
You have no need for a 7.1. Not only is there so little source material out there for it, but the only set ups that get good use out of matrixing into a 7.1 signal are very large rooms with a lot of seating.
Do not follow minor incidents advice and get a sound bar. They are cool, and I guess some people don't want to deal with wires, but they don't come close when it comes to good sound reproduction.
I just bought the Onkyo S6100 HTIB http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S6100&class=Systems&p=i and I love it, and I only use a 5.1 setup in my theather room. I used the two extra speakers plus a wireless system to set up a nice two speaker alternate system in another room that the reciever controlls defn worth it.
They don't offer surround sound, no, but they're 1000% better than TV speakers and work great in small homes. If my living room wasn't so small, I'd go with a 5.1 setup, but as it is I can't see anyone being disappointed in a good sound bar.
This is great advice. I bought a Harmony One remote on an open-box closeout kind of deal for around $60. Total steal and this thing is amazing. Even my wife loves it. You can add custom graphics for buttons for different channels which she loves, and you can tweak pretty much anything like the timing delay between "button presses" in macros, which is great.
Plus, the remote feels great in hand, and has a great little docking station. Logitech's PC/Mac based setup program, while hideous, is really easy to use and get programmed, too.
I've been extremely happy with it so far. So happy that now that I want HD video switching, I'm going straight back to Onkyo for it. I'm looking at the TX-SR506 and just keeping the speakers and sub I already have.
This is also a great suggestion. I just got my first Harmony remote (the 880) and it's a dream compared to the old "four remotes for four devices" setup. Totally worth the price of admission.
or Brawl. 4854.6102.3895 Name: NU..
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8724357&type=product&id=1200703057877
But any other suggestions are greatly appreciated (especially if they're from the BB website.)
Yeah, I was gonna go with the Xbox one (which was like $90 new), but I saw this in the "open box, might be broken" bin and gave it a shot. Worked perfectly and I love it. Like I said, even my wife loves it, which means we can keep the receiver, which otherwise would not have flown.
I understand that 7.1 might not be something everyone needs but honestly I want it and if I can get it I'm going to. I don't feel like I'm paying too much just for that feature, personally, but I do appreciate the advice.
If you plan on using it with a PS3, you can forget about HD audio. The S6100 and below only support HDMI passthru, the receiver will not process the audio via HDMI. The most you can do is A) send a separate (optical) line from the PS3 or
Thats fine of course. Like I said, I had a 7.1 setup in my last place. It still works, I just had two more speakers hanging from the ceiling.
My couch is against a wall now, so I couldn't really do a 7.1 if I wanted to.
I doubt HD audio is worth worrying about. Tests have shown that human beings can't really distinguish between CD quality and anything higher. (You'll also notice DVD-A, HDCD, and SACD never took off) And even if they could, the speaker construction would still be a far weaker link in the sound reproduction chain than superZOMG audio resolution.
(On the other hand, it is easier to properly master high-res audio which may result in superior sound. This is a bit of a red herring though.)
Well, the thing about TrueHD is that it's a lossless audio format. Human beings can distinguish between lossy and lossless, though the difference is more subtle than, say, the difference between DPL and 5.1. It's a nice thing to have, but it's not going be a huge deal to most people.
Also, that Onkyo HTiB looks nice, and this from someone who hates HTiB. The receiver looks solid, and the system is incrementally upgradable, which is important.
Isn't this fixable by setting the PS3 to output LPCM audio instead of Bitstreaming? In fact Dolby Labs has recommended setting the PS3 to output LPCM to save the Receiver the hassle since the Cell will most likely be stronger than the receiver anyway. Of course if you want to get 7.1 out of the Optical Link you'll have to set it for LPCM anyway since the chip used for the Optical link is limited to 5.1 Bitstreaming.
Yup. The PS3 decodes the TrueHD audio, and can output it as PCM. In the past, this was your only option, as the PS3 couldn't pass the native TrueHD audio via bitstream without downconverting to 5.1, which meant you couldn't let your receiver handle the TrueHD decoding even if you wanted to (though the Cell would likely be a better TrueHD decoder than all but the most high-end receivers anyway, so I don't see why you'd want to). This may have changed since then; not sure.
So yeah, just run HDMI from the PS3 to the receiver and utilize the HDMI passthrough on the receiver, and you'll have TrueHD audio and 1080p video.
that's what got me interested. the blu-ray board I go to just expanded the forums and added a htib section which I thought was odd since 100% of audio enthusiast things I've read in the last 3 years said to avoid them, period. then I heard avs was into it and I was pretty much sold. so glad I happened to check when I did.
My understanding is that PS3 doesn't do multi-channel audio (just stereo) when outputting LPCM over SPDIF, and the only way you can get that is to do LPCM over HDMI to the receiver.
Or am I misreading you?
SPDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interconnect Format ) = TosLink or Optical connection
If you pass LPCM via HDMI, then decoded multichannel (5.1/6.1/7.1) lossless audio can be sent to your receiver (provided your source material is encoded in 5.1/6.1/7.1 HD audio format). The PS3 is decoding the audio and HDMI has sufficient bandwith to pass the decoded multichannel output to the receiver to be played out the speakers.
This is summarized info with regards to LPCM over SPDIF or HDMI on a PS3. This information is of particular interest to new PS3 owners using legacy audio systems (non-HDMI) and a lot of discussion can be found over at AVSForum by searching for permutations of the following terms: HMDI, Optical, SPDIF, PS3, LPCM and Bitstream.
Edit: To get lossless audio from the PS3 your receiver would also need to be able to receive PCM (or LPCM or MPCM as these terms appear interchangeable w/r/to HD audio) over HDMI; apparently there are HDMI receivers that cannot receive decoded lossless audio over HDMI. There are some BluRay players that will Bitstream the lossless codecs to a receiever that can then decode the audio for lossless playback. The information in my post is specific to the PS3. I can't really comment on other HD playback setups as the PS3 is all I got.
It was a misread because I way over simplified it in a way that isn't quite correct for the average person. Because the average person will in no way understand the limits of the Optical on the PS3 in regards to LPCM & Bitstreaming.
Ah, see, this is of interest to me, because I may soon be in the market for a receiver that would allow me to use TrueHD. Is there an easy way to discern HDMI-compatible receivers that can receive decoded, lossless audio over HDMI from those that can't?
It all depends on the receiver and the chips used. You're going to have to read detailed reports. Basically you'll want to hit up the AVS forums and mention your player of choice. All I have is a PS3 and I love it to death.
This thread has some good info but it does have like 2700 posts, the OP also seems to indicate HDMI 1.1 would be sufficient or a "Level 4" or greater receiver (as defined by the OP).
This thread attempted to deal with the issue directly, but it's old and doesn't include newer receivers.
This isn't entirely a bad thing, as I love doing research on new components.
They also lick ass when it comes to proper stereo imaging.
If you're just going to listen to 128 kbps MP3s and you don't know or care about how your music COULD sound with a good stereo configuration, I guess whatever. Someone has to buy them.
Personally I could never actually recommend one.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
The thing though is, CDs tend to be mastered poorly. A lot of why people tend to think vinyl sounds better is because LPs tend to be mastered to a wider dynamic range because only audiophiles who'd appreciate that would ever consider buying them anyhow. I strongly suspect the same tends to be true about "audiophile" digital disc formats.
So it's not just about it being easier, it's about the actual source material being mastered in a dramatically different fashion a lot of the time, and this is a difference that DOES play out regardless of the weaknesses in speakers. Though, it's also very important to consider a really good pair of front L & R speakers so that you can actually get accurate reproduction. Spend more money on those than you do on the rest of your stuff.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
I think so, but the manual is confusing.
on page 34 under Supported Audio Formats the listing of "Multichannel linear PCM" and the note "Your DVD player must be able to output these formats from its HDMI OUT." and on page 80 under Listening Mode Presets part 4 you have "Multich PCM:...(input via HDMI)" both these excerpts point to the receiver being able to handle MPCM over HDMI.
but then on page 53 under Specifying the Digital Signal Format part 2 has the gem "PCM: Only 2-channel PCM format input signals will be heard" and the tables on page 60/61 are at best ambiguous: I could read it saying that "PCM" is only two-channel or that "Multichannel Analog" and "Multichannel' are distinct things, the latter being Multichannel PCM (if that's the case why didn't they just say so?).
So it's ironic that classical music is the only place SACD is thriving..... when it's really pop music that would benefit from it - since the SACD specification isn't only about higher resolution, it actually includes rules about how to mix dynamics. That's what I meant by how hi-res audio sounds better but that the resolution is a red herring - it's all about mastering. So you're quite correct in your suspicion about hi-res audio. The resolution advantage doesn't sound better. The frequency increase helps avoid aliasing problems and the bit increase helps avoid volume problems, that's it really. And even if it did sound better, it would only be for instruments with a tremendous amount of upper partials... like cymbals, and even then only if the cymbals were recorded fresh and not from a drum machine. Meanwhile, pianos, guitars, basses, the majority of instruments don't have as many upper partials and would have no advantage at all if recorded hi-res. This is easy to demonstrate by watching a spectrograph or a FFT while a solo instrument plays.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Some PS3s support SACD, I know my 60gig does.
I've been researching off handled for a while now at purchasing my first receiver and audio system in general. I like the idea of a Home Theater In A Box since it gives me everything i want with reasonable quality and features at not that high of a price. What I need, what I want, all it takes one purchase. Appealing. I've looked a few Yamaha and Onkyo HTiaB (Is that right?) and haven't full decided on one yet, which is a large part on why I'm here.
I have an HDTV, DVR, record player, 360, Wii, possibly a PS3 eventually, and a computer music library (all in the same room not far from each other) that I want to all cozily snuggle into their appointed slots on a receiver so at a flick of a switch or press of a button I can change the sound to this and that. I have no idea really on how to go about wiring that or if there would be particularly special wires I would need to get all those things connected. I can read labels but I can't always figure out what type of connector works for what sometimes.
So, the questions are pretty much broken down as this;
What's a good receiver for a gamer with a record player?
Can I actually hook all those devices into it so at a press I can change listening to the TV through the speakers to listening to the music on my computer through the speakers (And having the TV sound coming from the TV's speakers normally), to getting done with that press it again and watch on a movie through said speakers from the 360/PS3?
Can I even connect my computer to a receiver without a Macgyver's Degree in Make Shift Wiring?
What's a good google search term I can't think of that would give me a good list of all the different types of wires and adapters I would need for this clusterfuck? Or can somebody hear be a Golden Star student and do such a write up?
I'm sure there is a plethora of other questions that i can't think of at the moment, but I'm mostly just eager to get this all started.
Mostly because I love wiring things together. And that isn't even sarcasm.
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