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The Rise of Atheism and Agnosticism
Loren Michael
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The thing I'm most excited about is churches maybe closing down and freeing up some valuable real estate.
NO. We are not going down this circle-jerk road. You can talk about this shit if you want, and congratulate each other on how smart we all are for not believing in god, but we are not doing this shit again.
Please note, it's not the above statement I have problems with. It's the one coming next, or the one after that. I just want it to stop before it really begins.
o_O
seemed on-topic and to the point to me...
ooh, Firefox 2 has a spell check.
I think that we're going to see increasing polarization between the religious and the secular. Overall, secularism will probably enjoy a great upswing in numbers, while religious communities become more and more insular (and probably crazy). It's likely that the divide between secular and religious will mirror quite closely the divide between rich and poor.
I see improvements, but also potential conflict on the horizon.
I think he probably meant that it's healthy to question things, because when you reason through why you believe something, your belief is strengthened.
I was referring to the fact that your statement made it seem like we would soon be going on the "irrationality lol" path. Sorry if I was incorrect, but with you, I can never tell.
well, more along the lines of questioning ourselves keeps us honest. intellectually and otherwise.
You do realize that there are weathly religious people and religious people who do not act like those backward retards from Jesus Camp, right?
EDIT: There are also religious people who don't make political decisions based on the tenets of their beliefs. I know this may be real hard for you enlightened folk to believe, but it does happen.
And why is it that whenever I read a post by Loren, I see a picture of Benny Hinn in my head, telling me that if I just put my hand on the monitor I will be healed from all my irrationalities?
i'm not going to bring up the cost/benefit argument of irrationality unless someone starts touting it as a decent alternative to reason.
beliefs are actions waiting to happen. the only reason a person doesn't act on one belief is that they have another belief that contradicts it. the belief that one's religious beliefs should not influence their political decisions is a good one, but it's a crude facsimile and a placeholder for actual reason.
what brand of conservatism, do you surmise?
Ah yess! I have seen the light! All my unreasonable beliefs and childish superstitions are fading away like smoke in the wind! Everything is so clear to me now! Praise Juheessus!... oh wait.
I leave you guys alone to your self-congratulatory back-slapping now. Have fun.
That was... helpful?
Also your 'witty quip' was pretty childish. Debate his point or please refrain from making a post.
Slightly less socially based than the passed few years. The act of opposing the Democrats will necessarily bring forward an emphasis on economic disagreement.
There will probably be a "back to the roots" movement to reaffirm social conservatism - but the rhetoric of social conservatism relies heavily on the Democrats being out of power. It works by playing on the fears of what the Democrats might do. They might ban the bible, they might force gay marriage everywhere they might blah blah blah. The Democrats actually being in power will make it harder to feed those fantasy land fears. Social issues will probably gain less traction. If they lose again in 2008 with the candidate the social conservatives push through the primaries - then the party will probably very much begin to moderate its social positions.
My guess is that if another recession does come the Republican Party in 2010 will focus on economic issues - namely cutting back but not completely dismantling whatever reforms the Democrats can accomplish in the next three to four years.
I agree. I'm also wagering that the returning Republican party will be something that doesn't disgust me, but that could be my optimism speaking.
Well, if it actually happens that the social conservatives propel the next Republican candidate to his loss in 2008, there could be some serious backlash against social conservatism in the resulting loss.
On the black screen
Trantor > Gaia
Oh, and you assume that we're going to continue the 200 year old paradigm from the industrial revolution as time, and advancements go by and resources become more scarce. Why?
Yeah, I find this more plausible than some kind of atheist sunami.
also, I think you all need to see the recent Wii southpark lol.
Was someone arguing against having morals?
Also - anti-gay people are sick bigots.
As of 2006, humans have failed to alter their lifestyles to protect the environment. I believe oil, coal, and to a lesser extent natural gas will remain the only practical form of energy. Personally I would like to see nuclear power utilized on a global scale but that will not happen until petroleum sources are depleted, which will take thousands of years. With that in mind, why do we continue to build our communities the same way, drive inefficient cars, and continually destroy natural resources for short term economic profit? The answer is people value luxury and wealth over sustainable growth. The other answer is a capitalist economy requires constant growth to function, and it is not possible to continue that forever.
I'm a secular person and I believe man's goal should be to create a sustainable "paradise" on Earth in terms of materialistic, measurable qualities. In order to do this, we have two options. One is to begin gradually reducing the population by limiting the children people can have. This is an opinion shared by Ted Turner - that our goal should be to have a global population under 1 billion. Ultimately, this allows each individual a greater share of natural resources and therefore a better life. Another is to continue current population trends and restrict or limit the amount of raw resources that can be used by nation's and eventually the individual person, until population peaks and growth is no longer sustainable. I think this is the more likely outcome.
And I think that that attitude makes you a bigoted idiot.
Don't try to soften it so you can claim the moral highground. Depression is a mental disease. No one ever describes depressed people as sick, wrong perverts.
Your choice of adjectives is decidedly non-clinical and reveals more about your attitudes than any rational grounding you have for your assertion that they are mentally ill.
I always thought that this athiesm trend started decades ago, and is just continuing onwards. I live in Canada, which is definately less religious than the US, but I've always had it in my mind that religion was a strong minority, just because its been a strong minority among everyone I've ever associated with. The whole thing just seems very strange to me, I'm amazed by the US at how much sway religions holds compared to the rest of the developed world.
If the Democratic reform agenda works well, it'll undermine the ability of the Republicans to run on an agenda of fiscal conservatism. I think that muscular military conservatism will be poisoned for some time after Iraq. It seems like all that will really be left for them will be social conservatism.
This assumes the Dems do a good job of cleaning up government, which isn't a sure bet, but I have high hopes.
He also believes "the crazies" should be locked in the attic, lest they embarass the family, sinners that they are.
In a recession the economic proposals of the party out of power always seem better than they are. The Democrats will take losses in the next recession - especially so if they control the white house.
Defense is one of the few strong elements that unite Republicans like Jeff with Republicans like southern evangelicals. With the defense policy poisoned by the Bush administration it could be hard for the Republicans to rebuild their winning coalition.
We can hope.
America has been going through fairly regular religious peaks and valleys since its inception. We just passed the crest of a peak of religiosity. You can maybe look at our approach into the next valley as an "upswing" in atheism/agnosticism, but I'm not sure it will last. If we can assume history repeats itself, the pendulum will now swing away from Christianity, then back. But the fifth (sixth? fourth? I've lost track.) great awakening will inevitably come again.
Hopefully the next great awakening will be less annoying than this last one.
If the Republicans drop social conservativism, you know what that makes them? Moderate Libertarians. Which is what I think is the big thing coming.
Once people realize that there is a mainstream Libertarianism that is not free-staters, anachists, or gun-nut survivalists, and that there are already a million or so people in this country that think that way, it might gain steam.
Seriously, if your platform is defense, separation of C and S, less government, public and private fiscal responsiblity, gay rights, and reproductive rights, how do you vote? Hint: moderate Libertarian. It sure as hell isn't any member of either main party.
The space for that philosophy is opening more on the left these days, with the Democrats getting less anti-capitalist and the Republicans more authoritarian.
But, stuff like this already exists I guess (though the numbers just aren't there [yet?]).