Aside from a few minor appearances by Access after the series was over (which ammounted to nothing anyway) Marvel versus DC has been ignored completely by both companies, whereas JLA/Avengers has been referenced in official sources.
Also, there's the whole voting on the outcome thing.
Now how about you back up your claim.
But the events of someone else picking up Thor's hammer happened outside of the context of the tournament. No one voted on whether or not Wonder Woman would be able to pick it up, the writers decieded that she could. As far as im concerned thats as legit as anything in JLA/Avengers.
Aside from a few minor appearances by Access after the series was over (which ammounted to nothing anyway) Marvel versus DC has been ignored completely by both companies, whereas JLA/Avengers has been referenced in official sources.
Also, there's the whole voting on the outcome thing.
Now how about you back up your claim.
But the events of someone else picking up Thor's hammer happened outside of the context of the tournament. No one voted on whether or not Wonder Woman would be able to pick it up, the writers decieded that she could. As far as im concerned thats as legit as anything in JLA/Avengers.
How can you say the fights are out of continuity while saying that the shaky, shaky story stringing those fights together is completely in continuity? It doesn't make any sense.
Aside from a few minor appearances by Access after the series was over (which ammounted to nothing anyway) Marvel versus DC has been ignored completely by both companies, whereas JLA/Avengers has been referenced in official sources.
Also, there's the whole voting on the outcome thing.
Now how about you back up your claim.
But the events of someone else picking up Thor's hammer happened outside of the context of the tournament. No one voted on whether or not Wonder Woman would be able to pick it up, the writers decieded that she could. As far as im concerned thats as legit as anything in JLA/Avengers.
How can you say the fights are out of continuity while saying that the shaky, shaky story stringing those fights together is completely in continuity? It doesn't make any sense.
Because fans voted on the fights and the writers created a story to fit those outcomes, while for the entire rest of the series the writers created the story on their own.
Aside from a few minor appearances by Access after the series was over (which ammounted to nothing anyway) Marvel versus DC has been ignored completely by both companies, whereas JLA/Avengers has been referenced in official sources.
Also, there's the whole voting on the outcome thing.
Now how about you back up your claim.
But the events of someone else picking up Thor's hammer happened outside of the context of the tournament. No one voted on whether or not Wonder Woman would be able to pick it up, the writers decieded that she could. As far as im concerned thats as legit as anything in JLA/Avengers.
How can you say the fights are out of continuity while saying that the shaky, shaky story stringing those fights together is completely in continuity? It doesn't make any sense.
Because fans voted on the fights and the writers created a story to fit those outcomes, while for the entire rest of the series the writers created the story on their own.
Right-o, makes sense.
But JLA/Avengers basically treats Marvel vs. DC as never having happened. And JLA/Avengers is definitely in continuity.
Aside from a few minor appearances by Access after the series was over (which ammounted to nothing anyway) Marvel versus DC has been ignored completely by both companies, whereas JLA/Avengers has been referenced in official sources.
Also, there's the whole voting on the outcome thing.
Now how about you back up your claim.
But the events of someone else picking up Thor's hammer happened outside of the context of the tournament. No one voted on whether or not Wonder Woman would be able to pick it up, the writers decieded that she could. As far as im concerned thats as legit as anything in JLA/Avengers.
How can you say the fights are out of continuity while saying that the shaky, shaky story stringing those fights together is completely in continuity? It doesn't make any sense.
Because fans voted on the fights and the writers created a story to fit those outcomes, while for the entire rest of the series the writers created the story on their own.
Right-o, makes sense.
But JLA/Avengers basically treats Marvel vs. DC as never having happened. And JLA/Avengers is definitely in continuity.
So because JLA/Avengers treated it a certain way it now never happened?
I remain unconvinced. Im willing to admit that the outcome of the fights are suspect due to letting fans decide. But everything else is more or less a standard crossover.
JLA/Avengers definitely is canon. It treats Marvel vs. DC as though it never happened.
Marvel vs. DC's place in continuity is debatable. It could very well be non-canon.
JLA/Avengers treats it as non-canon.
When something that is definitely canon treats something that may or may not be canon as though it's not canon, the thing where the continuity is unclear is prooooobably not canon.
See what I'm getting at?
EDIT: Crossovers are generally out of contiuity unless otherwise stated. You do realize this, right?
Aside from a few minor appearances by Access after the series was over (which ammounted to nothing anyway) Marvel versus DC has been ignored completely by both companies, whereas JLA/Avengers has been referenced in official sources.
Also, there's the whole voting on the outcome thing.
Now how about you back up your claim.
But the events of someone else picking up Thor's hammer happened outside of the context of the tournament. No one voted on whether or not Wonder Woman would be able to pick it up, the writers decieded that she could. As far as im concerned thats as legit as anything in JLA/Avengers.
How can you say the fights are out of continuity while saying that the shaky, shaky story stringing those fights together is completely in continuity? It doesn't make any sense.
Because fans voted on the fights and the writers created a story to fit those outcomes, while for the entire rest of the series the writers created the story on their own.
Right-o, makes sense.
But JLA/Avengers basically treats Marvel vs. DC as never having happened. And JLA/Avengers is definitely in continuity.
So because JLA/Avengers treated it a certain way it now never happened?
I remain unconvinced. Im willing to admit that the outcome of the fights are suspect due to letting fans decide. But everything else is more or less a standard crossover.
There hasn't been a single reference to it being canon.
Aside from a few minor appearances by Access after the series was over (which ammounted to nothing anyway) Marvel versus DC has been ignored completely by both companies, whereas JLA/Avengers has been referenced in official sources.
Also, there's the whole voting on the outcome thing.
Now how about you back up your claim.
If it's printed it's in continuity until someone officially says otherwise.
That's how it's always been.
Also the fact that the fights happened the way they did at all puts the entire rest of the story into question. It's the same story. You can't just decide to exclude parts of a story from continuity while keeping up the others. At least not with parts as prominent as the fights.
It's like deciding that the Green Goblin getting impaled on his glider after killing Gwen Stacey is out of continuity, while the rest of the story is still canon.
Aside from a few minor appearances by Access after the series was over (which ammounted to nothing anyway) Marvel versus DC has been ignored completely by both companies, whereas JLA/Avengers has been referenced in official sources.
Also, there's the whole voting on the outcome thing.
Now how about you back up your claim.
If it's printed it's in continuity until someone officially says otherwise.
That's how it's always been.
According to this claim, Batman met Invincible, even though it was just a throwaway gag in Invincible.
Mogo is also infested with xenomorphs, Superman has fought several of those, too, and the JLA once had their asses kicked by predators given superpowers by Dominators.
Also the fact that the fights happened the way they did at all puts the entire rest of the story into question. It's the same story. You can't just decide to exclude parts of a story from continuity while keeping up the others. At least not with parts as prominent as the fights.
It's like deciding that the Green Goblin getting impaled on his glider after killing Gwen Stacey is out of continuity, while the rest of the story is still canon.
You can easily switch the outcome of every single fight in Marvel vs. DC and it does not change the other events of the book a bit.
Also the fact that the fights happened the way they did at all puts the entire rest of the story into question. It's the same story. You can't just decide to exclude parts of a story from continuity while keeping up the others. At least not with parts as prominent as the fights.
It's like deciding that the Green Goblin getting impaled on his glider after killing Gwen Stacey is out of continuity, while the rest of the story is still canon.
You can easily switch the outcome of every single fight in Marvel vs. DC and it does not change the other events of the book a bit.
Yes, okay, that has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
Also the fact that the fights happened the way they did at all puts the entire rest of the story into question. It's the same story. You can't just decide to exclude parts of a story from continuity while keeping up the others. At least not with parts as prominent as the fights.
It's like deciding that the Green Goblin getting impaled on his glider after killing Gwen Stacey is out of continuity, while the rest of the story is still canon.
You can easily switch the outcome of every single fight in Marvel vs. DC and it does not change the other events of the book a bit.
Yes, okay, that has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
It was in reference to your comment that the fights put the entire story into question. My contention is that the fights and their outcomes have no effect on the rest of the story becasue of the way it went down. You could go back, change the winner of every fight and the main story would continue the same way it did origionally.
As I have mentioned before, the series seems to me like the story was more or less written aside from the fights which the writers put together after all the votes were counted.
See how what I said does have something to do with the topic at hand.
I have yet to see any evidence beyond your opinion to show that the crossover is somehow not cannon.
Aside from a few minor appearances by Access after the series was over (which ammounted to nothing anyway) Marvel versus DC has been ignored completely by both companies, whereas JLA/Avengers has been referenced in official sources.
Also, there's the whole voting on the outcome thing.
Now how about you back up your claim.
If it's printed it's in continuity until someone officially says otherwise.
That's how it's always been.
According to this claim, Batman met Invincible, even though it was just a throwaway gag in Invincible.
Mogo is also infested with xenomorphs, Superman has fought several of those, too, and the JLA once had their asses kicked by predators given superpowers by Dominators.
Oh and don't forget the time Superman was injured by Lion-O of the Thundercats.
So? The rest of the story still exists only because of the fan vote. Marvel vs. DC was meant to be a huge event that would make lots of money and they had people vote to get even more money.
The whole premise was silly, it was full of stuff that the fans voted on, and it had no lasting impact on either universe whatsoever.
JLA/Avengers's premise wasn't silly, it was written entirely by the actual writer, and it DID have a lasting impact on both universes.
Which is more likely to be canon?
(Hint: It's the second one, because it also happens to contradict the first one and ignores everything that happened in the first one.)
EDIT: And Batman met the Punisher a couple of times.
So? The rest of the story still exists only because of the fan vote. Marvel vs. DC was meant to be a huge event that would make lots of money and they had people vote to get even more money.
No, the rest of the story exsists regardless of the fights. That was the only part the fans voted on. The rest of the story was a joint venture between Marvel and DC.
JLA/Avengers's premise wasn't silly, it was written entirely by the actual writer, and it DID have a lasting impact on both universes.
Which is more likely to be canon?
(Hint: It's the second one, because it also happens to contradict the first one and ignores everything that happened in the first one.)
EDIT: And Batman met the Punisher a couple of times.
Just because DC vs. Marvel did not have a lasting outcome does'nt mean that its not cannon, it just means it was not as big of an event as JLA/Avengers. The main story of Marvel vs. DC was also written by the actual writers, just not the outcomes of the fights. It's like you ignore that aspect on purpose.
When no references are ever made to an event, and it is ignored completely in a later story which IS referenced, and is NOT ignored, the event didn't happen, unless some mention is made of everybody having their memories wiped.
When no references are ever made to an event, and it is ignored completely in a later story which IS referenced, and is NOT ignored, the event didn't happen, unless some mention is made of everybody having their memories wiped.
It's like you ignore that aspect on purpose!
What difference does it make it it was ignored in JLA/Avengers? As mani said, as long as something put to print is not expressly written off as non cannon by writers it should be treated as cannon until that time.
So? The rest of the story still exists only because of the fan vote. Marvel vs. DC was meant to be a huge event that would make lots of money and they had people vote to get even more money.
No, the rest of the story exsists regardless of the fights. That was the only part the fans voted on. The rest of the story was a joint venture between Marvel and DC.
JLA/Avengers's premise wasn't silly, it was written entirely by the actual writer, and it DID have a lasting impact on both universes.
Which is more likely to be canon?
(Hint: It's the second one, because it also happens to contradict the first one and ignores everything that happened in the first one.)
EDIT: And Batman met the Punisher a couple of times.
Just because DC vs. Marvel did not have a lasting outcome does'nt mean that its not cannon, it just means it was not as big of an event as JLA/Avengers. The main story of Marvel vs. DC was also written by the actual writers, just not the outcomes of the fights. It's like you ignore that aspect on purpose.
What you're saying is true, but you're missing the big point.
Marvel vs. DC was completley ignored(and contradicted) by JLA/Avengers which is officially sanctioned cannon. That in my opinion basically retcons it into nothingness.
When no references are ever made to an event, and it is ignored completely in a later story which IS referenced, and is NOT ignored, the event didn't happen, unless some mention is made of everybody having their memories wiped.
It's like you ignore that aspect on purpose!
What difference does it make it it was ignored in JLA/Avengers? As mani said, as long as something put to print is not expressly written off as non cannon by writers it should be treated as cannon until that time.
Yes, except that most crossovers, while not going against canon, are not canon. They are generally regarded as being non-canon by pretty much everybody.
There was actually a pretty big "whoa man wow they're actually making it canon?" thing for JLA/Avengers. To me that seems to indicate that crossovers aren't usually canon.
And in JLA/Avengers it's clear that the JLA have never met the Avengers before, and the Avengers mistake the JLA for the Squadron Supreme. If Marvel vs. DC were canon, this would not be the case.
Why is it, that every discussion Spectre-X gets involved in turns into him vs everyone else?
I have no idea. In this case, however, it is most certainly not my fault, because you started the whole snarky "Captain know-it-all" thing or whatever it was that you called me.
Why is it, that every discussion Spectre-X gets involved in turns into him vs everyone else?
I have no idea. In this case, however, it is most certainly not my fault, because you started the whole snarky "Captain know-it-all" thing or whatever it was that you called me.
Perhaps I called you that because you consistently act like a giant know-it-all, and rather than actually discuss things with people, you instead bury them in a sea of fanboy posts.
What you're saying is true, but you're missing the big point.
Marvel vs. DC was completley ignored(and contradicted) by JLA/Avengers which is officially sanctioned cannon. That in my opinion basically retcons it into nothingness.
Ok, now that is a good point. But I still think that technically the events of Marvel vs. DC are cannon until stated otherwise. Mostly based on the fact that a character created in that series (Access) appeared in a couple issues even after the event was over gives it some credibility.
My main standpoint is that you can discount the fights due to the way they were decided..but the events that took place surrounding the fights still count until someone says they do not.
What you're saying is true, but you're missing the big point.
Marvel vs. DC was completley ignored(and contradicted) by JLA/Avengers which is officially sanctioned cannon. That in my opinion basically retcons it into nothingness.
Ok, now that is a good point. But I still think that technically the events of Marvel vs. DC are cannon until stated otherwise. Mostly based on the fact that a character created in that series (Access) appeared in a couple issues even after the event was over gives it some credibility.
My main standpoint is that you can discount the fights due to the way they were decided..but the events that took place surrounding the fights still count until someone says they do not.
I find this agreeable. I still doubt the canonnnessosity of the cross-over but you present some valid points.
Also, Mani you're bieng an asshole. Spex isn't bieng a fanboy, a little aggressive? Yes. But a fanboy? No, he gave reasons and listened to other peoples' arguments.
What you're saying is true, but you're missing the big point.
Marvel vs. DC was completley ignored(and contradicted) by JLA/Avengers which is officially sanctioned cannon. That in my opinion basically retcons it into nothingness.
Ok, now that is a good point. But I still think that technically the events of Marvel vs. DC are cannon until stated otherwise. Mostly based on the fact that a character created in that series (Access) appeared in a couple issues even after the event was over gives it some credibility.
My main standpoint is that you can discount the fights due to the way they were decided..but the events that took place surrounding the fights still count until someone says they do not.
I find this agreeable. I still doubt the canonnnessosity of the cross-over but you present some valid points.
Also, Mani you're bieng an asshole. Spex isn't bieng a fanboy, a little aggressive? Yes. But a fanboy? No, he gave reasons and listened to other peoples' arguments.
To be fair, Spex does not discuss things with people so much as he insults them while presenting his opinion as fact.
Well, on a completely different subject to your arguments but totally related to the thread, here's some of the covers from Feb-2007. As some of you already know, the full solicits are up so hit the OP and click on the link if you want the story behind some of these pics. As you'll see, we'll be getting a couple of more Venom-related fun this month as well as some couples hooking up and breaking apart and a very serious funeral for one of Civil War's casualties.
Why is it, that every discussion Spectre-X gets involved in turns into him vs everyone else?
To be fair to Spectre-X, the earlier discussion was actually me vs. everyone else. :P
So anyway, those Marvel solicits. After looking them over, I'm pretty sure I'll need to take out at least two or three new subscriptions. The X-23 mini seems like it'll be pretty badass. And that Power Pack cover looks awesome. I'll definitely pick up the trade when it comes out.
Well, on a completely different subject to your arguments but totally related to the thread, here's some of the covers from Feb-2007. As some of you already know, the full solicits are up so hit the OP and click on the link if you want the story behind some of these pics. As you'll see, we'll be getting a couple of more Venom-related fun this month as well as some couples hooking up and breaking apart and a very serious funeral for one of Civil War's casualties.
Stilt-Man, Noooooooooooo!
Also: Why the fuck is Dr. Doom at Stilt-Man's funeral?
To be fair to Spectre-X, the earlier discussion was actually me vs. everyone else. :P
So anyway, those Marvel solicits. After looking them over, I'm pretty sure I'll need to take out at least two or three new subscriptions. The X-23 mini seems like it'll be pretty badass. And that Power Pack cover looks awesome. I'll definitely pick up the trade when it comes out.
I really like the look of the Spider-Man books. Ive always been a fan of the black costume and im interested in seeing how the work its return into the issues.
Marathon on
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
edited November 2006
To be fair no matter how tactless he is, Spectre is right a lot of the time.
Posts
But the events of someone else picking up Thor's hammer happened outside of the context of the tournament. No one voted on whether or not Wonder Woman would be able to pick it up, the writers decieded that she could. As far as im concerned thats as legit as anything in JLA/Avengers.
How can you say the fights are out of continuity while saying that the shaky, shaky story stringing those fights together is completely in continuity? It doesn't make any sense.
Because fans voted on the fights and the writers created a story to fit those outcomes, while for the entire rest of the series the writers created the story on their own.
Right-o, makes sense.
But JLA/Avengers basically treats Marvel vs. DC as never having happened. And JLA/Avengers is definitely in continuity.
So because JLA/Avengers treated it a certain way it now never happened?
I remain unconvinced. Im willing to admit that the outcome of the fights are suspect due to letting fans decide. But everything else is more or less a standard crossover.
Marvel vs. DC's place in continuity is debatable. It could very well be non-canon.
JLA/Avengers treats it as non-canon.
When something that is definitely canon treats something that may or may not be canon as though it's not canon, the thing where the continuity is unclear is prooooobably not canon.
See what I'm getting at?
EDIT: Crossovers are generally out of contiuity unless otherwise stated. You do realize this, right?
There hasn't been a single reference to it being canon.
JLA/Avengers is canon.
JLA/Avengers contradicts it a bunch of times.
What conclusion can you draw from this?
If it's printed it's in continuity until someone officially says otherwise.
That's how it's always been.
It's like deciding that the Green Goblin getting impaled on his glider after killing Gwen Stacey is out of continuity, while the rest of the story is still canon.
According to this claim, Batman met Invincible, even though it was just a throwaway gag in Invincible.
Mogo is also infested with xenomorphs, Superman has fought several of those, too, and the JLA once had their asses kicked by predators given superpowers by Dominators.
You can easily switch the outcome of every single fight in Marvel vs. DC and it does not change the other events of the book a bit.
Yes, okay, that has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
It was in reference to your comment that the fights put the entire story into question. My contention is that the fights and their outcomes have no effect on the rest of the story becasue of the way it went down. You could go back, change the winner of every fight and the main story would continue the same way it did origionally.
As I have mentioned before, the series seems to me like the story was more or less written aside from the fights which the writers put together after all the votes were counted.
See how what I said does have something to do with the topic at hand.
I have yet to see any evidence beyond your opinion to show that the crossover is somehow not cannon.
The whole premise was silly, it was full of stuff that the fans voted on, and it had no lasting impact on either universe whatsoever.
JLA/Avengers's premise wasn't silly, it was written entirely by the actual writer, and it DID have a lasting impact on both universes.
Which is more likely to be canon?
(Hint: It's the second one, because it also happens to contradict the first one and ignores everything that happened in the first one.)
EDIT: And Batman met the Punisher a couple of times.
No, the rest of the story exsists regardless of the fights. That was the only part the fans voted on. The rest of the story was a joint venture between Marvel and DC.
Just because DC vs. Marvel did not have a lasting outcome does'nt mean that its not cannon, it just means it was not as big of an event as JLA/Avengers. The main story of Marvel vs. DC was also written by the actual writers, just not the outcomes of the fights. It's like you ignore that aspect on purpose.
It's like you ignore that aspect on purpose!
What difference does it make it it was ignored in JLA/Avengers? As mani said, as long as something put to print is not expressly written off as non cannon by writers it should be treated as cannon until that time.
Marvel vs. DC was completley ignored(and contradicted) by JLA/Avengers which is officially sanctioned cannon. That in my opinion basically retcons it into nothingness.
Yes, except that most crossovers, while not going against canon, are not canon. They are generally regarded as being non-canon by pretty much everybody.
There was actually a pretty big "whoa man wow they're actually making it canon?" thing for JLA/Avengers. To me that seems to indicate that crossovers aren't usually canon.
And in JLA/Avengers it's clear that the JLA have never met the Avengers before, and the Avengers mistake the JLA for the Squadron Supreme. If Marvel vs. DC were canon, this would not be the case.
I have no idea. In this case, however, it is most certainly not my fault, because you started the whole snarky "Captain know-it-all" thing or whatever it was that you called me.
Perhaps I called you that because you consistently act like a giant know-it-all, and rather than actually discuss things with people, you instead bury them in a sea of fanboy posts.
Ok, now that is a good point. But I still think that technically the events of Marvel vs. DC are cannon until stated otherwise. Mostly based on the fact that a character created in that series (Access) appeared in a couple issues even after the event was over gives it some credibility.
My main standpoint is that you can discount the fights due to the way they were decided..but the events that took place surrounding the fights still count until someone says they do not.
Also, Mani you're bieng an asshole. Spex isn't bieng a fanboy, a little aggressive? Yes. But a fanboy? No, he gave reasons and listened to other peoples' arguments.
To be fair, Spex does not discuss things with people so much as he insults them while presenting his opinion as fact.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
To be fair to Spectre-X, the earlier discussion was actually me vs. everyone else. :P
So anyway, those Marvel solicits. After looking them over, I'm pretty sure I'll need to take out at least two or three new subscriptions. The X-23 mini seems like it'll be pretty badass. And that Power Pack cover looks awesome. I'll definitely pick up the trade when it comes out.
Also: Why the fuck is Dr. Doom at Stilt-Man's funeral?
I really like the look of the Spider-Man books. Ive always been a fan of the black costume and im interested in seeing how the work its return into the issues.
FUCK
YES
I don't usually read them, but I suppose it's never to late to start.
Fuck Yes.
X-23 all grown up? Buh?
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Nah, she's still like 16. Welcome to the world of comic book art.
*Not that I'm complaining, mind you.