So. . . .thorgot, why should we not vote you out now? All we know is that you are in control (or in contact with the person who is in control) of a kill. And that you have now killed 3 specials and a villager. There is no evidence besides your word that you are good.
1) I am Judge Turpin. My right-hand man was a good special. Therefore, I am a good special.
2) If you think about a balanced game, it would not have two mafia kills without also having a vigilante kill.
I may have done zero good this game (besides Dee Kae), but I've been trying.
thorgot, I can get behind you and agree with everything you've said if you can answer the following question well enough: How do we know you are, in fact, the judge?
Killing Thorgot now is probably not a smart move, because if he is in fact the good vig he will die soon anyway, the guard should be dead by now. And if he is evil we can still kill him when we have more facts.
I'll stick with !Element Brian.
I also want to know what the reason behind this MacGuffin bandwagon was.
thorgot, I can get behind you and agree with everything you've said if you can answer the following question well enough: How do we know you are, in fact, the judge?
If I weren't the real judge, the real judge would have stepped forward.
How do we know the guard is dead? Are we out of good characters besides the judge? (Honest question)
There was no real reasoning behind any of the bandwagons yesterday, really, except the last BlueBlue one.
There's still that sailor guy.
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Element BrianPeanut Butter ShillRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
Why is there always people killing me? Ok obviously Thorgot is a good guy, so we should keep him alive, as long as he stops killing our other good guys. I'm just going to go ahead and vote lonelyahava to even things up, there happy McGuffin? Yea, i was just trying to advert votes from me to you, as I am doing with ahava, simply because i dont like dying, and ahava dying is better than me dying, because its not me
How do we know the guard is dead? Are we out of good characters besides the judge? (Honest question)
Since I've got the book of the play sitting here beside me, I'll go ahead and field that question for you.
Cast list in order of appearance, with a quick description of each role:
Anthony Hope, a sailor companion of Sweeney and an idealistic young lover Sweeney Todd, the Demon Barber of Fleet Street; seeking revenge for his false imprisonment in Australia, and living under a false name - originally known as Benjamin Barker Beggar Woman, insane but with moments of clarity; she is the first to realize the truth of the pie shop, and after her death she is revealed to be Lucy, Barker's wife (don't I know you, she said!) Mrs. Lovett, pie shop owner who had a bright idea "with the price of meat what it is when you get it (if you get it)" Judge Turpin coveted his neighbor's wife, had Barker shipped off to Australia, raped and abused Lucy. After Lucy's descent into madness, he took the beautiful Johanna as his ward. The Beadle, bumbling but good-natured assistant to the Judge, he knows the people of the district and is generally well-liked by all. It is unclear in the play just how much he realizes of the Judge's true nature. Johanna, daughter of Barker and Lucy, ward of Judge Turpin, love of Anthony, the ditzy blond at the center of the plot Tobias Ragg, called Toby throughout the play. Originally a spokesman and assistant to Pirelli, he serves the same role for Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett after the disappearance of his master Pirelli, the King of Barbers and Barber of Kings, a scam artist who was originally trained by Benjamin Barker; Sweeney's first kill when Pirelli attempts to blackmail him. Jonas Fogg, proprietor of an asylum where the Judge stashes Johanna to keep her hidden from Anthony
I've marked above the characters who are wholly good (or wholly evil), but Judge Turpin, Pirelli, and Fogg could each be good, neutral, or a second evil faction depending on how they were implemented in game.
Most likely guards are Anthony and/or Fogg, so I would be extremely surprised if our guard is already dead. Johanna could make part of a mason pair with either Fogg or with Anthony, depending on when in the show this game is set.
Most likely seers were Lucy (from her incredible insights) and the Beadle (through regular contact with various people in the distrrict), though Anthony could also have some limited seering powers to locate Johanna if he did not start the game in touch with her. If cj wanted to differentiate the seers, it is possible that Sweeney himself would seer as good to the Beadle (who never suspected him) and could only be correctly seered by Lucy, whose seerings might otherwise be inconclusive.
Judge Turpin seems to be implemented as a vig with the power of execution. Pirelli is likely another vig seeking the death of Sweeney.
Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett are certainly the remaining members of the evil faction.
Most likely seers were Lucy (from her incredible insights) and the Beadle (through regular contact with various people in the distrrict), though Anthony could also have some limited seering powers to locate Johanna if he did not start the game in touch with her. If cj wanted to differentiate the seers, it is possible that Sweeney himself would seer as good to the Beadle (who never suspected him) and could only be correctly seered by Lucy, whose seerings might otherwise be inconclusive.
Crap, you're probably right. I was about to tell Gumpy everything, too. Thanks for pointing this out.
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GumpyThere is alwaysa greater powerRegistered Userregular
I'm sorry, thorgot, but I just can't bring myself to trust you. It's possible you are just getting horribly unlucky, and making mistakes and such, but I'm beginning to think it's just more likely that you are not acting in our best interests.
Vertroue, Element Brian, Zandracon, and Darian are the only people who have given me no indication they are good.
If BlueBlue was evil, the person he "seered" could be added to that list, but I have PMed that name to somebody.
!element brian
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
At this point, there will be no more replacements. Inactivity will be met with death.
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vertroueI am FemaleTotes Not a SithRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
From all the information flying around, Thorgot is a neutral vig, that has killed more good then bad. I wholly heartily amit that having a vig is good, but when s/he kills that many good, while stating that he has a network, What side is he on? Is the network controling him or what?
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Element BrianPeanut Butter ShillRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
lonelyahava I invite you to follow us in taking out thorgot
From all the information flying around, Thorgot is a neutral vig, that has killed more good then bad. I wholly heartily amit that having a vig is good, but when s/he kills that many good, while stating that he has a network, What side is he on? Is the network controling him or what?
my name is going to come up green, though
and everybody will laugh and laugh
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vertroueI am FemaleTotes Not a SithRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
We may laugh but so far you seem to be doing more harm then your supposed team Good. Blame me if you wish, but wasn't the Judge pretty evil in the play/movie?
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
And vote for me instead? I, if you havent noticed am guilty of zero deaths so far, i haven't voted for any of the people yet killed, who all turned up to be villagers, the only people mister right over here has been executing have been other good guys, that is assuming he is the judge in the first place.
lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
A vigilante is still an asset to the village.
Yes, his aim has been a bit off, but that happens.
It's part of the trade off.
The way that I see it, the village has 2 kills to use at it's disposal, the vote and the vig.
The mafia gets 1 kill (in standard play).
Voting and removing the vigilante at this point in the game is a mistake. Tomorrow night, or the next night, we're going to need the vig kill to help keep the Mafia's potential control over the vote at bay.
Keeping thorgot alive right now really only helps the village.
I can't see how voting for him and removing a known and proven special is a good idea.
Yes, his aim has been a bit off, but that happens.
It's part of the trade off.
The way that I see it, the village has 2 kills to use at it's disposal, the vote and the vig.
The mafia gets 1 kill (in standard play).
Voting and removing the vigilante at this point in the game is a mistake. Tomorrow night, or the next night, we're going to need the vig kill to help keep the Mafia's potential control over the vote at bay.
Keeping thorgot alive right now really only helps the village.
I can't see how voting for him and removing a known and proven special is a good idea.
It just doesn't work for me.
Ok ok fine, thats what I said earlier but the vote turns around and goes for me, i'm just trying to stay alive, there can only be a couple of us villagers left so wasting it on me just to get it out of your system is only gonna leave the mafia with the advantage.
B:L and Zandracon have been the quitest of everyone, they're probably just sitting there laughing and watching us go at eachothers throats this entire time.
Yes, his aim has been a bit off, but that happens.
It's part of the trade off.
The way that I see it, the village has 2 kills to use at it's disposal, the vote and the vig.
The mafia gets 1 kill (in standard play).
Voting and removing the vigilante at this point in the game is a mistake. Tomorrow night, or the next night, we're going to need the vig kill to help keep the Mafia's potential control over the vote at bay.
Keeping thorgot alive right now really only helps the village.
I can't see how voting for him and removing a known and proven special is a good idea.
It just doesn't work for me.
Ok ok fine, thats what I said earlier but the vote turns around and goes for me, i'm just trying to stay alive, there can only be a couple of us villagers left so wasting it on me just to get it out of your system is only gonna leave the mafia with the advantage.
B:L and Zandracon have been the quitest of everyone, they're probably just sitting there laughing and watching us go at eachothers throats this entire time.
Nope, I'm just an idiot who needs to stop staying up late. I went to sleep at 5 AM and woke up at 4 PM. Should really fix my sleep schedule. Playing STALKER at night, while in game is night is fun. I guess. Bloodsucker attacks aren't fun.
lonelyahava, the point is that having a special alive is not always good. It is only good if his interests align with ours. If he is neutral (or evil, of course), then by this point we can probably say that he is not working with us. You can't assume he is a good vig like you are doing. His kills may just be like an extra mafia.
But they may not. He may be good. We just don't know, and that's what the decision today has got to be. I hedging my bets on him being neutral/bad. I may be wrong, but that's why I don't determine everything, just my one vote.
And to vertroue, the judge was rather "evil" in the movie, but that was mostly from the perspective of Sweeney Todd & Co. Todd is evil in our little world, so it stands to reason that the judge is probably not. But he may be, or could easily be neutral, the only thing we can safely say is that he is not aligned with Todd.
vertroueI am FemaleTotes Not a SithRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
Could there not be two factions? small one obviously
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
yeah, there could be two factions.
In theory.
But from my limited knowledge of the source material, I say it's highly unlikely.
Yes, the Judge might just be a neutral.
But, we've seen in the past just how stupid it is to randomly go "ARRRGHHHHHHH KILL NEUTRAL DIE DIE DIE BLARRRGGGLLHEHEHEH"
It just hasn't been working very well for villages in the past.
I'm willing to say that thorgot is not only the vig, but he is Good, he has the Villages interests (ie removing Sweeney and Lovett etc) as his own interests as well.
Yeah, he's had bad aim, but going from the information that he was working from on day 3 of a game, that's not uncommon.
It's happened to vigilantes in the past ALL THE TIME. Especially in minis.
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1) I am Judge Turpin. My right-hand man was a good special. Therefore, I am a good special.
2) If you think about a balanced game, it would not have two mafia kills without also having a vigilante kill.
I may have done zero good this game (besides Dee Kae), but I've been trying.
I meant in terms of the source material.
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Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
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Yes.
When I have some.
but I'm tired.
I will have reasoning tomorrow.
After sleep and chocolate
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I'll stick with !Element Brian.
I also want to know what the reason behind this MacGuffin bandwagon was.
There was no real reasoning behind any of the bandwagons yesterday, really, except the last BlueBlue one.
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If I weren't the real judge, the real judge would have stepped forward.
There's still that sailor guy.
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
and then Thorgot ripped the networks heart out
!Thorgot
Since I've got the book of the play sitting here beside me, I'll go ahead and field that question for you.
Cast list in order of appearance, with a quick description of each role:
Anthony Hope, a sailor companion of Sweeney and an idealistic young lover
Sweeney Todd, the Demon Barber of Fleet Street; seeking revenge for his false imprisonment in Australia, and living under a false name - originally known as Benjamin Barker
Beggar Woman, insane but with moments of clarity; she is the first to realize the truth of the pie shop, and after her death she is revealed to be Lucy, Barker's wife (don't I know you, she said!)
Mrs. Lovett, pie shop owner who had a bright idea "with the price of meat what it is when you get it (if you get it)"
Judge Turpin coveted his neighbor's wife, had Barker shipped off to Australia, raped and abused Lucy. After Lucy's descent into madness, he took the beautiful Johanna as his ward.
The Beadle, bumbling but good-natured assistant to the Judge, he knows the people of the district and is generally well-liked by all. It is unclear in the play just how much he realizes of the Judge's true nature.
Johanna, daughter of Barker and Lucy, ward of Judge Turpin, love of Anthony, the ditzy blond at the center of the plot
Tobias Ragg, called Toby throughout the play. Originally a spokesman and assistant to Pirelli, he serves the same role for Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett after the disappearance of his master
Pirelli, the King of Barbers and Barber of Kings, a scam artist who was originally trained by Benjamin Barker; Sweeney's first kill when Pirelli attempts to blackmail him.
Jonas Fogg, proprietor of an asylum where the Judge stashes Johanna to keep her hidden from Anthony
I've marked above the characters who are wholly good (or wholly evil), but Judge Turpin, Pirelli, and Fogg could each be good, neutral, or a second evil faction depending on how they were implemented in game.
Most likely guards are Anthony and/or Fogg, so I would be extremely surprised if our guard is already dead. Johanna could make part of a mason pair with either Fogg or with Anthony, depending on when in the show this game is set.
Most likely seers were Lucy (from her incredible insights) and the Beadle (through regular contact with various people in the distrrict), though Anthony could also have some limited seering powers to locate Johanna if he did not start the game in touch with her. If cj wanted to differentiate the seers, it is possible that Sweeney himself would seer as good to the Beadle (who never suspected him) and could only be correctly seered by Lucy, whose seerings might otherwise be inconclusive.
Judge Turpin seems to be implemented as a vig with the power of execution. Pirelli is likely another vig seeking the death of Sweeney.
Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett are certainly the remaining members of the evil faction.
Crap, you're probably right. I was about to tell Gumpy everything, too. Thanks for pointing this out.
Annoyed
Whyfore are you annoyed?
I know why I'm annoyed...
BUt that's something different completely
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I mean...
I'm so busy busy busy busy busy!!
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!element brian
From the Desk of Darth Vertroue Diplomat to the USA.
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
my name is going to come up green, though
and everybody will laugh and laugh
From the Desk of Darth Vertroue Diplomat to the USA.
don't vote for thorgot.
that is all.
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And vote for me instead? I, if you havent noticed am guilty of zero deaths so far, i haven't voted for any of the people yet killed, who all turned up to be villagers, the only people mister right over here has been executing have been other good guys, that is assuming he is the judge in the first place.
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
Yes, his aim has been a bit off, but that happens.
It's part of the trade off.
The way that I see it, the village has 2 kills to use at it's disposal, the vote and the vig.
The mafia gets 1 kill (in standard play).
Voting and removing the vigilante at this point in the game is a mistake. Tomorrow night, or the next night, we're going to need the vig kill to help keep the Mafia's potential control over the vote at bay.
Keeping thorgot alive right now really only helps the village.
I can't see how voting for him and removing a known and proven special is a good idea.
It just doesn't work for me.
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Ok ok fine, thats what I said earlier but the vote turns around and goes for me, i'm just trying to stay alive, there can only be a couple of us villagers left so wasting it on me just to get it out of your system is only gonna leave the mafia with the advantage.
B:L and Zandracon have been the quitest of everyone, they're probably just sitting there laughing and watching us go at eachothers throats this entire time.
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
Nope, I'm just an idiot who needs to stop staying up late. I went to sleep at 5 AM and woke up at 4 PM. Should really fix my sleep schedule. Playing STALKER at night, while in game is night is fun. I guess. Bloodsucker attacks aren't fun.
But they may not. He may be good. We just don't know, and that's what the decision today has got to be. I hedging my bets on him being neutral/bad. I may be wrong, but that's why I don't determine everything, just my one vote.
And to vertroue, the judge was rather "evil" in the movie, but that was mostly from the perspective of Sweeney Todd & Co. Todd is evil in our little world, so it stands to reason that the judge is probably not. But he may be, or could easily be neutral, the only thing we can safely say is that he is not aligned with Todd.
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But...
It's hardly ever a good idea to remove a vig like this.
I might be proven horribly horribly wrong, but I trust Thorgot, and that is all that I can say on that.
He's having a spell of bad hits, and that happens. To any and every vigilante.
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In theory.
But from my limited knowledge of the source material, I say it's highly unlikely.
Yes, the Judge might just be a neutral.
But, we've seen in the past just how stupid it is to randomly go "ARRRGHHHHHHH KILL NEUTRAL DIE DIE DIE BLARRRGGGLLHEHEHEH"
It just hasn't been working very well for villages in the past.
I'm willing to say that thorgot is not only the vig, but he is Good, he has the Villages interests (ie removing Sweeney and Lovett etc) as his own interests as well.
Yeah, he's had bad aim, but going from the information that he was working from on day 3 of a game, that's not uncommon.
It's happened to vigilantes in the past ALL THE TIME. Especially in minis.
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