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Deathmatch mode: like pissing in an ocean of piss
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I guess people who do physical sports call that being "in the zone".
No other game before or since has managed to pull that off.
When I picked up CoD4 I was trying for some quick unlocks so I played a lot of deathmatch and started to enjoy it quite a bit. It was the simplicity I was missing. Then I picked up UT3 for 25 bucks and instantly fell in love with deathmatch all over again. I don't think deathmatch has a place in every game, but when done well it's a simple and pure experience that doesn't require a huge time investment. It's also very gratifying to know that you came first in a match of 16+ people all on your own.
What did people play waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more of in MGO? Deathmatch. It was hard to find a TSNE match when I played, and that just sucked.
On most games I hate playing plain ol' deathmatch. In Warhawk I pretty well never touched the deathmatch gametype throughout my hundred+ hours of playing.
That just doesn't make any sense.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
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It seems like you have this preconceived notion that Deathmatch is bad. Well, if it's bad, why does everyone love it? Clearly you don't like it, but that doesn't mean you should get rid of it. If other people enjoy it, why remove it?
I don't have the time needed to get good at DM anymore. the hours of practice and learning just to keep up.
it was mind boggling.
PSN: super_emu
Xbox360 Gamertag: Emuchop
i always thought everyone wanted team games. I guess people want DM in games where it doesn't belong. There are reasons why people don't play Quake (and I guess Unreal too) as much as before because they will probably get annihilated by people that have been playing for a long ass time. So I suppose we should conclude that people don't want a pure DM game because they will lose 50 to 0, but want DM in a team based and most likely more realistic game so they can actually get some kills.
I don't see how console FPS changed anything at all, and even if a controller will never match KB and mouse for accuracy I still enjoy it for it's own merits. Mainly split screen and knowing that connection speed aside, most people are on equal footing. I don't have to worry about someone with an already pimped out computer editing his game files, creating scripts and generally doing everything possible to get an advantage over me.
Rebounding health is something that I'd like to see be toned down or have the option of replacing, though.
It's not really about the control scheme -- although I think playing with a controller makes the frantic, twitch gameplay of really good DM just about impossible -- it's about everything else console FPS have done, and that's mostly rebounding health and everything it brings.
Rebounding health means less (and often no) powerups (both health and armour) and that means less map control, which is an essential skill for DM and 1v1. Add to that that most console FPS limit the amount of weapons you can pick up and you've really got no point in trying for map control. You get your best/favourite weapon (weapons are rarely tiered properly anymore) and then just go wherever the action is or your favourite camping spot. From then it's almost 100% aim and firepower, with a little bit of positioning, that wins most fights, and those are the shallowest skills in FPS. I can see how people would find that boring.
Vehicles are another batch of stupidity altogether, but I'll allow personal preference there.
I don't really care about cheating, it has no bearing on the balance or fun of FPS. I also have no problem with scripts and vstrs.
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I love and hate team games. My friends and I have random as schedules, and getting together online is nigh impossible. Playing a team game with friends in a shooter is so incredibly fun, but it quickly becomes the opposite with randoms. I wanted to enjoy Team Fortress 2, but my first time playing I just had people screaming into their mics about how much I sucked, and I was the reason they lost. I'm sure somebody said something along the same lines as this earlier in the thread, but I thought I'd say it anyway. I don't play team games because I don't really have a team, in a sense.
But free for all is just too random. I think my favorite addition (or subtraction) to STHD Remix was the removal of random damage, and things like that. So I'd play games like Halo on free for all (which I don't suggest anybody should do), and I'd get guys spawning behind me, or dudes spawning in front of me which I don't really deserve. Two shotguns go at it? Who wins? Iduno, fuck. Though Halo always felt too random for me in the first place.
Then again, I don't think I'm really built for these games.
tl;dr: Resistance 2 is great.
I.e. map control.
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The rebounding health in Halo isn't magical, you have to stay out of a firefight for a pretty damn long time if you don't want to die within 2 shots again.
Staying out of the line of fire for a half dozen seconds is not any better than ducking into a room to grab a 50 health. It's actually worse in a lot of ways, and promotes hiding over actual map migration.
Camping spawnpoints and checking for one possible power-up is not proper map control.
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All I can assume from this is you've never actually played Halo.
Not like it matters, if you want the old style health pack situation, all the older FPS' are still playable and still have communities supporting them.
I was pretty damn good at Specialists DM too. I never really played much DM outside of Quake (when it was the only real choice you had). I actually prefer Last Man Standing if games have it, atleast, if the game itself is entertaining to watch. AHL did it the best I think, cause even if you got scrubbed it was fun to watch the guys duke it out, and cheer on the dudes you liked. (Team DM like this was fun to). Its generally so brief that its not trying.
Plain ol' DM bothers me, mostly because it tires me really quickly, and because it can easily become "Spawn, Shoot Man, Die" without much breaking up the action, and no real break. I like being alive for a while.
you're gonna kill everyone so that you're the best
simple
You fire so many rockets, ping enough rail gun rounds off people, become so focused on the hitscan that the world becomes a blur.
I also love L4D co-op. The vs is pretty swell too.
The game mode I hate the most is probably capture the flag. Death match can be good but it gets old pretty fast.
I loved the Beta of the game even more than the actual game itself. The beta consisted of 3 guns: a scoped assault rifle (CAR-15), a sidearm (Colt .45), and a sniper rifle (M21). The gameplay in the beta was wildly different than that of the final build. You could fight through the streets and then scale a building to snipe down the enemy encampment. Or in a custom map, you could use the laudable terrain (the game ran on a game engine designed for a helicopter sim, meaning terrain was very, very useful and never ended) as cover and snipe people on your way into a town, then take over anyone in it with your assault rifle.
Using custom maps in the final build of the game made for bad gameplay because you could no longer snipe your way into something - you just had to run and try to dodge the sniper shooting at you for however far away the town was because you only had one primary weapon (impossible). The player had to be a proficient sniper and close-quarters combatant in the beta. This is one example of how a game with really only one mode ever played - Team Deathmatch - can become a completely different type of game with small implementations like a class system, or restricting the character to different types of weapons.
The final build of the game is still the best class system I can recall. Everything was immaculately balanced. No one class was dominant over another. "Noob tubing" had drawbacks: Players with a grenade launcher had a weak assault rifle that took 2-3 shots to kill someone with. Players with a light machine gun had no scope, but a 1 shot kill. Players with the silenced MP5 had less range and less power than other guns.
tl;dr: Every class had apparent pros and cons and made it the best Team Deathmatch game I'd ever played. The game was different from every Team Deathmatch I've played in any other game - including its spiritual successor, Joint Operations - and was instead a very, very fun experience. Maybe it was taking over Progessive Spawn Points that made it feel so different... but I still hold Black Hawk Down as the perfect Team Deathmatch, and compare every TDM to this day to it.
I think that's why everyone plays DM and TDM. I have yet to see a game that makes squadrons of troops go to different parts of the map to complete squad-specific objectives (i.e. capture a spawn point) in order to win the game. I think playing in a squad on a team of squads would be amazing.
Battlefield 2 is the closest I've seen to anything of this nature. I didn't really like the class system or weapons much, though.
Too much of an emphasis on XP makes players play the game how it shouldn't be played - i.e. running around on a team-oriented gamemode and merely shooting players on the opposite team. For instance, the guy hogging the tank the entire map in BF2, or someone stealing a helicopter that seats 10 people all for himself in Joint Operations.
Not competitively, but I have played Halo 2 and 3.
And I do still play oldschool FPS. Q3 and Warsow are all the FPS I'll probably ever need.
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a man after my own heart
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Many people suck at making decent bots. I know its easy to criticize but there are games that showed bots could be done and done well. Perfect dark did well with bots. I remeber unreal 2k4 having good bots. The problem is most developers don't care to make intuitive bad guys or bots that really respond to patterns.
I'd kinda wish more developers were forced to play chess to get their degree just so they understand basic strategy.
Back onto the topic of Deathmatch?
I think its become kind of a beat to death thing. I actually enjoy the halo form of it because there is (well was) equipment that changed the tactics instead of shoot and be accurate enough to kill your opponent.
At some point it gets old and the things you can do with CTF or Bombs or King of the hill seem much more entertaining as they take the deathmatch model and expand on it a bit. There are times in halo where we lose horribly in kill to death ratio but stomp people in capture the flag.
I would like to see some more mixes of dark/light zones with deathmatches where you die and go find a place to rez and respawn.
I've still not really seen bots fight along side both teams and actually assist properly besides WoW pvp.
These are the people who enjoy grinding, something most FPS-deathmatch people hate. I guess I'm one of those wacky in between people.
First off, unless you have a team of people with good communication and who you enjoy playing with, objective-based gaming is shit. It's impossible to communicate and work effectively with a team of people you've been matched with ten seconds earlier-- even if they're the nicest goddamn mofos on earth. Who's the leader? Who makes the calls? Who's on point? Nobody knows. There's no time to figure that out before the game starts-- worse now with so many people opting for NXE-parties over game-based parties. And I totally understand that, because I go to team-slayer in my NXE party, too. I don't want to talk to the other people on my team I don't know. Zero interest. Furthermore, how the hell are you supposed to work in a group with people who have had probably wildly varying experiences? I'm sure you, Fyre, have a group of people to play with (TBK) who knows all your memes, and who understands location banter and who have an idea of who does what effectively, but the common gamer doesn't have that. I'm regularly berated by idiots on Live! because I "don't call out map locations correctly" or "don't use the right terminology for weapons or vehicles". I call them idiots because they expect me to have had the same experience that they've had, but that's impossible unless you spend a lot of time playing with the same group of people.
Next, objective-based games give the individual nothing to shoot for. In slayer, I can look down and see that I'm 10 kills behind 1st and change my strategy on the go. I can check my score in Team Slayer and make decisions about whether to be gung-ho or sit back because my performance is right there on screen in an easy to read metric: kills. In team games, I don't know what the fuck to do. Score is 0 - 0. Are we making progress, or just butting heads and getting nothing done? Am I pulling my own weight? I am doing the right thing? And when you win or lose its even worse because by the time your score pops up at the end, I, at least, forget exactly what I was doing and have no idea how to improve.
Objective games also draw the experience out with frustratingly long respawn times. Whereas in Slayer I'm playing maybe 90% of the time, in objective games, I might as well be eating dinner, since I have to wait 8 or 12 seconds EVERY TIME I get picked off.
So yeah, here's the list of things I hate about objective-based modes on Halo 3:
Long Respawns - fuck you, I want to play, not look at a ragdoll.
Teamwork - I don't haz it. Neither does anyone else on my team.
Unclear Goals - Shooting people in the head -- clear. Finding a flag somebody dropped in a crevice -- unclear.
Wrong Focus - Here are some guns. Instead of shooting, please run all the way across that map and hump the ground in that territory.
And the biggest one? Team Deathmatch with a good team is far more fulfilling than Team Objective-anything with a good team.
Edit: To be fair, I think the absolute worst game mode in Halo 3 is anything-King of the Hill. Everybody starts, turns towards the hill, tosses their 2 grenades and then runs in. It's all luck whether the spawns will bless you with the time you need to actually get points and in the end, win or lose, every King of the Hill game seems random and disappointing.
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This is my only issue with TF2. Even on the PA servers, sometimes it just feels like nobody is doing anything but trying to farm kills. Just butting heads and unless you have a medic that listens you usually can't get something planned.