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but this falsely-passive 'well they're shooting missiles, so shall we' from israel is fairly atrocious
Look Israel is many things but impatient isn't one of them. It's more like "Well they keep shooting missiles and refuse to stop so now it's time for an airstrike."
This is sort of beyond my military knowledge but like
Hasn't Israel kidnapped nazi war criminals from half-way across the globe?
Couldn't they do an assassination here and there in their own back yard once in a while? You never really seem to hear about that sort of thing going on, it's always bombombomb.
Yes. . . 30-60 years ago under the rule of competent leaders.
That's disheartening. Any chance you'll have a shot at people who actually know what the fuck they're doing come the next election cycle?
you need a war for people to learn how to fight
Yes, god knows the only place you can learn how to fight is if you pick one. It's not like you could ask people who have been in fights to teach you the proper way to do things. No sir.
@Butters: Be that as it may, the attacks have hit the civilians harder than they've hit Hamas. I don't know about you, but I think that's cause for criticism.
Paladin, I'm not counting on you to be up-to-the-minute on the nuances of Israeli politics, but do you have any idea how this could affect the elections in... January, was it?
I'm not Paladin, but apparently the opposition's lead has narrowed since the tough talk began. Wonder what the numbers will look like now.
Bowler Hat on
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Paladin, I'm not counting on you to be up-to-the-minute on the nuances of Israeli politics, but do you have any idea how this could affect the elections in... January, was it?
I'm not Paladin, but apparently the opposition's lead has narrowed since the tough talk began. Wonder what the numbers will look like now.
The opposition... that would be Netanyahu?
Harrier on
I don't wanna kill anybody. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
can we just call both sides terrorsts and build a bigger wall around both of them?
Israel wouldn't have a problem with that.
that's pretty much exactly what they want
also like planes and arial bombing?
they don't really care about walls you know?
Zoel on
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
0
PharezonStruggle is an illusion.Victory is in the Qun.Registered Userregular
This is sort of beyond my military knowledge but like
Hasn't Israel kidnapped nazi war criminals from half-way across the globe?
Couldn't they do an assassination here and there in their own back yard once in a while? You never really seem to hear about that sort of thing going on, it's always bombombomb.
Yes. . . 30-60 years ago under the rule of competent leaders.
That's disheartening. Any chance you'll have a shot at people who actually know what the fuck they're doing come the next election cycle?
you need a war for people to learn how to fight
Yes, god knows the only place you can learn how to fight is if you pick one. It's not like you could ask people who have been in fights to teach you the proper way to do things. No sir.
@Butters: Be that as it may, the attacks have hit the civilians harder than they've hit Hamas. I don't know about you, but I think that's cause for criticism.
Hamas has claimed that civilians have been hit harder.
I don't think you've actually read a history book at all
i'm not talking about history, i'm talking about the current palestine-israel stalemate
man to man combat is extremely bloody and still involves collateral damage
you're speaking from an extremely ill-informed standpoint
i know, and it's not something i'd wish to happen anywhere. i'm not trying to underplay the fact that sending troops in means that violence is brought to a head and more people would die than from any missile strike
but if their aim is to eradicate hamas from palestine, then that's the only way they'll do it. anything less is prolonging the situation
bsjezz on
0
HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
This is sort of beyond my military knowledge but like
Hasn't Israel kidnapped nazi war criminals from half-way across the globe?
Couldn't they do an assassination here and there in their own back yard once in a while? You never really seem to hear about that sort of thing going on, it's always bombombomb.
Yes. . . 30-60 years ago under the rule of competent leaders.
That's disheartening. Any chance you'll have a shot at people who actually know what the fuck they're doing come the next election cycle?
you need a war for people to learn how to fight
Yes, god knows the only place you can learn how to fight is if you pick one. It's not like you could ask people who have been in fights to teach you the proper way to do things. No sir.
@Butters: Be that as it may, the attacks have hit the civilians harder than they've hit Hamas. I don't know about you, but I think that's cause for criticism.
Hamas has claimed that civilians have been hit harder.
Yes because Israel wouldn't be biased in their reporting about who's being hit harder by the attacks.
EDIT: Same goes for Hamas, but still.
Hacksaw on
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BarcardiAll the WizardsUnder A Rock: AfganistanRegistered Userregular
This is sort of beyond my military knowledge but like
Hasn't Israel kidnapped nazi war criminals from half-way across the globe?
Couldn't they do an assassination here and there in their own back yard once in a while? You never really seem to hear about that sort of thing going on, it's always bombombomb.
Yes. . . 30-60 years ago under the rule of competent leaders.
That's disheartening. Any chance you'll have a shot at people who actually know what the fuck they're doing come the next election cycle?
you need a war for people to learn how to fight
Yes, god knows the only place you can learn how to fight is if you pick one. It's not like you could ask people who have been in fights to teach you the proper way to do things. No sir.
@Butters: Be that as it may, the attacks have hit the civilians harder than they've hit Hamas. I don't know about you, but I think that's cause for criticism.
Hamas has claimed that civilians have been hit harder.
Yes because Israel wouldn't be biased in their reporting about who's being hit harder by the attacks.
you know, team america summed up the UN perfectly
"or else what?"
"or else we wil be very angry.
and we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are."
oh no
Actually the UNSC structure makes it ill equipped to deal with high priority military crises, and it was never designed to be so. Saying it is ineffectual as a 'world police' is misunderstanding its role entirely. Sanctions and resolutions may seem empty and hollow when you use them on nations in the short term but over longer periods they are a much better deterrent. Sanctions were on Iraq since the Gulf and reduced their military capacity many times more than direct coalition military intervention in 2003.
In fact the UNSC has a history of fucking up majorly because they rushed in with troops instead of actually stepping back. They are painted as toothless and without any power because of such events, where they proved to be completely ignored and had no bearing on world politics.
It is a good assessment to say the American military or at least a coalition outside of UN control such as in Afghanistan is much more effective at solving escalating violence. I can think of many occasions when the UN were unwilling to act and the US in particular stepped up - Somalia in 93 springs to mind.
But to say the UN and by extension the security council works in the same way as portrayed in Team America is a little misleading. It has many roles and has proven effective more times than ineffective. Korea is one example, though you could easily argue that the prolonged nature of the UN intervention fucked up their initial successes. Though that is true of any war ever fought.
The public want quick results, and when people are dying on the streets they are right to do so. But really, what do you expect the UN to do? Throw an army into the region to separate the two sides? It's not like that has ever turned out bad in the past has it?
The handling of the Georgian crisis earlier this year is the best parallel. Remember when people on these forums were predicting that was a prelude to something huge and were shitting themselves over the possible consequences. Conflict has been occurring in Gaza for a long time, shit isn't about to go down because of one large scale attack - especially not one which was predicted to occur. Though I have no doubt the media will be all over this. It's been a while since there was a new war going on and they are desperate for shit to happen.
I was speaking to a sub editor the other day who was saying all she hears is complaints from above about how the public have become completely bored of insurgents. A faceless antagonist that no longer sells newspapers. Hamas has a face. Iran has a face. Ever since Saddam was tried I get the feeling that both of the two current major wars (Iraq / Afghanistan) have become completely uninteresting from a public standing.
Now are Israel about to go full scale on their asses? No? They have the means and the motive sure, and probably plenty of backing from the US who, let's face it, run shit around these parts. But it is an understatement to say the middle east is living on the edge. Noone in the international community wants shit to be fucked up there, especially between Hamas and Israel. Their military operations a few years ago were front page news and the same sort of thing happened. Missile strikes and retaliatory airstrikes.
Hamas blamed America directly for the Israeli response to their strikes in 06. One way or another I bet America will see to it that nothing becomes of this crisis. They are stretched thin enough as it is.
The_Scarab on
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BarcardiAll the WizardsUnder A Rock: AfganistanRegistered Userregular
Paladin, I'm not counting on you to be up-to-the-minute on the nuances of Israeli politics, but do you have any idea how this could affect the elections in... January, was it?
I'm not Paladin, but apparently the opposition's lead has narrowed since the tough talk began. Wonder what the numbers will look like now.
The opposition... that would be Netanyahu?
February 10th , and Netanyahu losing is extremely unlikely - the primary question is only by how much he'll win.
Grey Paladin on
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
@Butters: Be that as it may, the attacks have hit the civilians harder than they've hit Hamas.
What? How do you figure?
Pretty sure any strike on a city is going to hurt the civilians more, being as they're the majority population there.
Pretty sure you're not reading the fucking reports.
The one I've got in front of me is rather vague, but it is mentioning something about Gaza city being hit.
They're probably lying, though. I know the BBC does that from time to time. They're the British Fox News, after all!
All this sarcasm is killing me on the inside.
Er, I thought the BBC was known to be completely biased, we just don't know for who quite exactly.
Zoel on
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
Paladin, I'm not counting on you to be up-to-the-minute on the nuances of Israeli politics, but do you have any idea how this could affect the elections in... January, was it?
I'm not Paladin, but apparently the opposition's lead has narrowed since the tough talk began. Wonder what the numbers will look like now.
The opposition... that would be Netanyahu?
February 10th , and Netanyahu losing is extremely unlikely - the primary question is only by how much he'll win.
Ugh. That's going to be so much fun.
Netanyahu and Obama will interact like sandpaper rubbing against glass.
Harrier on
I don't wanna kill anybody. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from.
0
HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
Are you talking in coverage or literally here. Because while yes, Sky News is the European branding on Murdochs News Corp media in our region, a better parallel to the 'Fox News' style of news coverage would probably be ITN or by extension ITV or Five news, at least speaking from UK outlets. Sky News varies significantly, and despite having the same owner, the same mandate and actually sharing a lot of the same resources and teams higher up, you can say their media coverage is far more light, has been varying in liberal terms wildly over the last few years and has far less political clout in the UK than Fox does in the US.
The_Scarab on
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
The BBC is government regulated and government funded, yes.
Tanks, artillery, and infantry are on the way south. Shit.
Grey Paladin on
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes to make it possible." - T.E. Lawrence
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
Fuck.
Antimatter on
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
I wonder what the objective of their ground force is going to be?
History would suggest simply urban warfare in the Strip to an end of Hamas occupation.
The scale and immediacy of the situation would perhaps imply something more final. Though as I said, I doubt this will ever become more than a local crisis.
The_Scarab on
0
PharezonStruggle is an illusion.Victory is in the Qun.Registered Userregular
Posts
man to man combat is extremely bloody and still involves collateral damage
you're speaking from an extremely ill-informed standpoint
Look Israel is many things but impatient isn't one of them. It's more like "Well they keep shooting missiles and refuse to stop so now it's time for an airstrike."
grownups are talking
I'm not Paladin, but apparently the opposition's lead has narrowed since the tough talk began. Wonder what the numbers will look like now.
What? How do you figure?
Israel wouldn't have a problem with that.
that's pretty much exactly what they want
also like planes and arial bombing?
they don't really care about walls you know?
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
Hamas has claimed that civilians have been hit harder.
i know, and it's not something i'd wish to happen anywhere. i'm not trying to underplay the fact that sending troops in means that violence is brought to a head and more people would die than from any missile strike
but if their aim is to eradicate hamas from palestine, then that's the only way they'll do it. anything less is prolonging the situation
EDIT: Same goes for Hamas, but still.
oh... well lets do that then
and lets give both sides 1 really big nuke
the estimate is that a third of casualties are civilians
Pretty sure you're not reading the fucking reports.
go play in the street
In fact the UNSC has a history of fucking up majorly because they rushed in with troops instead of actually stepping back. They are painted as toothless and without any power because of such events, where they proved to be completely ignored and had no bearing on world politics.
It is a good assessment to say the American military or at least a coalition outside of UN control such as in Afghanistan is much more effective at solving escalating violence. I can think of many occasions when the UN were unwilling to act and the US in particular stepped up - Somalia in 93 springs to mind.
But to say the UN and by extension the security council works in the same way as portrayed in Team America is a little misleading. It has many roles and has proven effective more times than ineffective. Korea is one example, though you could easily argue that the prolonged nature of the UN intervention fucked up their initial successes. Though that is true of any war ever fought.
The public want quick results, and when people are dying on the streets they are right to do so. But really, what do you expect the UN to do? Throw an army into the region to separate the two sides? It's not like that has ever turned out bad in the past has it?
The handling of the Georgian crisis earlier this year is the best parallel. Remember when people on these forums were predicting that was a prelude to something huge and were shitting themselves over the possible consequences. Conflict has been occurring in Gaza for a long time, shit isn't about to go down because of one large scale attack - especially not one which was predicted to occur. Though I have no doubt the media will be all over this. It's been a while since there was a new war going on and they are desperate for shit to happen.
I was speaking to a sub editor the other day who was saying all she hears is complaints from above about how the public have become completely bored of insurgents. A faceless antagonist that no longer sells newspapers. Hamas has a face. Iran has a face. Ever since Saddam was tried I get the feeling that both of the two current major wars (Iraq / Afghanistan) have become completely uninteresting from a public standing.
Now are Israel about to go full scale on their asses? No? They have the means and the motive sure, and probably plenty of backing from the US who, let's face it, run shit around these parts. But it is an understatement to say the middle east is living on the edge. Noone in the international community wants shit to be fucked up there, especially between Hamas and Israel. Their military operations a few years ago were front page news and the same sort of thing happened. Missile strikes and retaliatory airstrikes.
Hamas blamed America directly for the Israeli response to their strikes in 06. One way or another I bet America will see to it that nothing becomes of this crisis. They are stretched thin enough as it is.
im gonna say... tuesday
They're probably lying, though. I know the BBC does that from time to time. They're the British Fox News, after all!
February 10th , and Netanyahu losing is extremely unlikely - the primary question is only by how much he'll win.
Er, I thought the BBC was known to be completely biased, we just don't know for who quite exactly.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
While defending, your jewish settlers was destroyed by a barbarian bear!
Netanyahu and Obama will interact like sandpaper rubbing against glass.
Are you talking in coverage or literally here. Because while yes, Sky News is the European branding on Murdochs News Corp media in our region, a better parallel to the 'Fox News' style of news coverage would probably be ITN or by extension ITV or Five news, at least speaking from UK outlets. Sky News varies significantly, and despite having the same owner, the same mandate and actually sharing a lot of the same resources and teams higher up, you can say their media coverage is far more light, has been varying in liberal terms wildly over the last few years and has far less political clout in the UK than Fox does in the US.
It's a form of mockery, you see.
Injured: 700
Deathcount
Friendly: 0
Hostile: 215
Civilians: 15
. . .
Tanks, artillery, and infantry are on the way south. Shit.
History would suggest simply urban warfare in the Strip to an end of Hamas occupation.
The scale and immediacy of the situation would perhaps imply something more final. Though as I said, I doubt this will ever become more than a local crisis.
I would be honored to die by Putin's hand. I would not be worthy of such a thing.
Anyone less than a world leader he has his aides fistfight by proxy for him, so you don't actually die by his own hands.
Those are reserved for G8 political leaders only. So become President and you too can be one of his glorious victims.
Don't be so hard on yourself.
You have to put up a real fight though.
He deserves to kill you like a man.