Bursar, do you know if it was ever even considered to include "Nocturne with Raidou" with Devil Summoner? It makes sense and yet doesn't make sense that we're not getting it. It makes sense in that it might cost too much to make the disc and most people would already have normal Nocturne anyway, but at the same time it could've possibly been used to boost sales (2 games for the price of 1!) and with the low print run anyway it probably wouldn't have been a huge loss of cash to print the discs. I'm not a business man though so I have no idea what I'm saying.
Well, the question was basically "would you like to like to spend the company's time/money/resources/manhours on a game that's not going to earn you any money when we have several games already in the pipeline?" And the decision was largely "no."
Let's say $40 is the top price you could sell a PS2 game for. Most games sell for $30 or less now, so for $40 you'd better be throwing in something nice like an art book or a little doll or something (hint). How much would you charge for two games bundled together? $50, max. Not $60, because store reps will look at that price for a PS2 game and walk away laughing.
So, even if the 2-game bundle sold for $50, is it cost-effective to do so when it's basically one game for $40 and the second for $10? No.
Bursar on
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Bursar, do you know if it was ever even considered to include "Nocturne with Raidou" with Devil Summoner? It makes sense and yet doesn't make sense that we're not getting it. It makes sense in that it might cost too much to make the disc and most people would already have normal Nocturne anyway, but at the same time it could've possibly been used to boost sales (2 games for the price of 1!) and with the low print run anyway it probably wouldn't have been a huge loss of cash to print the discs. I'm not a business man though so I have no idea what I'm saying.
they would have to retranslate Nocturne and that would shove DS2 into late 2009, a time when a PS2 game would NOT be financially viable
Well, the question was basically "would you like to like to spend the company's time/money/resources/manhours on a game that's not going to earn you any money when we have several games already in the pipeline?" And the decision was largely "no."
Let's say $40 is the top price you could sell a PS2 game for. Most games sell for $30 or less now, so for $40 you'd better be throwing in something nice like an art book or a little doll or something (hint). How much would you charge for two games bundled together? $50, max. Not $60, because store reps will look at that price for a PS2 game and walk away laughing.
So, even if the 2-game bundle sold for $50, is it cost-effective to do so when it's basically one game for $40 and the second for $10? No.
Yeah I figured that was the most likely reason. Perhaps if it was the equivalent of a Nocturne FES maybe we would have had a chance but I can't blame the decision. Spending all that money and using up resources to bring over a Dante re-skin just isn't worth it. The changes to that data would have also meant you couldn't print the same disc and then the different disc art it would've needed... yeah that just wasn't happening. I think most of us were only curious to see how the coin flip and Dante tag worked out anyhow.
I think everyone is happy with Raihou though because a ton of us have been waiting for any kind of Jack Frost doll after the office building dungeon in DDS2. I know I have.
Zephyr, not much would have to be translated really. Raidou is just a Dante reskin. I figure all the data on the disc not related to him was probably exactly the same. They could've just done a kind of switcheroo with the data right? I mean, they didn't retranslate every line of dialogue in FES.... did they?
I still cant kill the last boss in Nocturne...or rather, the easier part of the last boss. Ok, since its been so long and I keep getting raped, how do I destroy the second part of the final boss? That blast kills me ..well not in one hit but I have like 80 HP after it hits. What do I do on him?
So Im happy with my copy for now. I finally started playing it again today after so long and man, I feel bad I stopped. Oh and whats a good skill set for the final boss as well? As well as some good demons and the like? I know Im basically asking how to beat him here but...I really just cant seem to. I just need some sort of direction on this. Maybe I just need to think it through a bit more or something...
Edit: if I need to do any crazy demon making Im up for it. With my 360 done with for a while all Ill be playing is Nocturne/random PS2 games for a while.
Edit 2: and before anyone says anything, yes, I have asked this before. But last time I had to stop playing the game and its been a while since Ive played it. I suppose I could check Gamefaqs but I like asking people here rather than the FAQs.
Edit 3: actually....now that I think about it, I think the whole plan of attack for most end bosses was just a lot of Fog Breath/War Cry...hmmm and of course focus and freikugel but.
mastrius on
"You're like a kitten! A kitten who doesn't speak Japanese." ~ Juliet Starling
Honestly, I just own a Wii right now, and would be much happier not having to buy another system for SMT4.
That said, the DS is so far the JRPG system this gen. I'm half expecting the series to jump there.
Either way, they'd be following Dragon Quest.
I still cant kill the last boss in Nocturne...or rather, the easier part of the last boss. Ok, since its been so long and I keep getting raped, how do I destroy the second part of the final boss? That blast kills me ..well not in one hit but I have like 80 HP after it hits. What do I do on him?
So Im happy with my copy for now. I finally started playing it again today after so long and man, I feel bad I stopped. Oh and whats a good skill set for the final boss as well? As well as some good demons and the like? I know Im basically asking how to beat him here but...I really just cant seem to. I just need some sort of direction on this. Maybe I just need to think it through a bit more or something...
Edit: if I need to do any crazy demon making Im up for it. With my 360 done with for a while all Ill be playing is Nocturne/random PS2 games for a while.
Edit 2: and before anyone says anything, yes, I have asked this before. But last time I had to stop playing the game and its been a while since Ive played it. I suppose I could check Gamefaqs but I like asking people here rather than the FAQs.
Edit 3: actually....now that I think about it, I think the whole plan of attack for most end bosses was just a lot of Fog Breath/War Cry...hmmm and of course focus and freikugel but.
Yeah. Rakukaja, too. And you have Mediarahan, don't you? It shouldn't really matter how much HP you're left with, as long as you can heal.
This was something we talked about a few times, at least in relation to what degree a dick Yosuke is, so it's interesting that the semi-mainstream media picked up on it as well.
EmperorSeth on
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
I think I'm finally going to try and dive head-first into Nocturne. Last time I tried it was sometime after DDS2 I think, and I got raped by the Matador. Hopefully this time I will be the one doing the raping.
He was afraid of girls and how they would treat him if they knew about his hobbies and interests, and then came Naoto, and his feelings towards him just confused him further.
But then we find out
Naoto is a girl, and Kanji is obviously still interested. He was just worried he was gay because his feelings toward girls were so negative.
He sees the main character and Yosuke in swim suits and ends up getting a nosebleed. He gets kissed by Teddie. And at the end of his S.Link, he says that his Shadow IS him. It doesn't get a whole lot clearer than that, considering what his Shadow was like.
Being gay is kinda different in Japan, though, as that linked article points out. For our purposes, though: he's sexually interested in guys, which I think is what we would qualify as gay.
He sees the main character and Yosuke in swim suits and ends up getting a nosebleed. He gets kissed by Teddie. And at the end of his S.Link, he says that his Shadow IS him. It doesn't get a whole lot clearer than that, considering what his Shadow was like.
Being gay is kinda different in Japan, though, as that linked article points out. For our purposes, though: he's sexually interested in guys, which I think is what we would qualify as gay.
The girls were in swimsuits as well, Teddie kissed him, and his shadow is a product and distortion of his discomfort around girls. Meanwhile you've got the Naoto situation, plus he several times demonstrates attraction to girls, such as (September school trip)
Chihiro
while never showing sexual interest in any male character aside from Naoto.
Also I can't believe we're having this discussion.
He sees the main character and Yosuke in swim suits and ends up getting a nosebleed. He gets kissed by Teddie. And at the end of his S.Link, he says that his Shadow IS him. It doesn't get a whole lot clearer than that, considering what his Shadow was like.
Being gay is kinda different in Japan, though, as that linked article points out. For our purposes, though: he's sexually interested in guys, which I think is what we would qualify as gay.
1. I'm pretty sure the nosebleed was from seeing Yukiko and Chie as its after they show up that he has his back turned the rest of the time.
2. I don't know if you've noticed this but the Shadows are a bit overblown in what they represent. Kanji thinks he might be gay because he likes non-manly things and hates that part of him, suppressing it with the tough guy act. He is not in fact a flaming homosexual, just like Yukiko isn't a slutty princess or Chie a slutty dominatrix or Rise a...uh...slut.
Well okay I'm not sure on that last one but my point stands. The Shadows are just as much what the character thinks that side of them is like just as much as being that side itself. Kanji is sexually confused at best.
Seriously. He asks Chie, regarding her Shadow, "is that how you came out too?" Do you think he's asking that because he came out... as straight... as a result of his experiences?
The nosebleed happened immediately after the guys were shoved into the water, and he was watching them. You can possibly argue that it was a delayed reaction to girls in swimsuits, but speaking as a guy, if you see something that's hot, believe me, the reaction is not very delayed.
I never argued that Kanji is a flaming homosexual. But the point of his Shadow is that he IS gay and can't reconcile that with his position in society. At the end of his S.Link he says that his Shadow his him: he completely accepts the gay side of himself and has channeled it constructively into helping people and doing classes, rather than raging against it and trying to destroy things.
I really don't remember his attraction to Chihiro, but his attraction to Naoto and subsequent confusion when things clear up regarding him should clearly show that he's at least definitely not straight, and probably pretty gay. But I mean, really, he asked Chie if she came out TOO. What is that supposed to mean except that he feels he was forced out of the closet?
Veraticus on
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
By the end of the game, it was no contest to me. Kanji's just a confused character. His hobbies and upbringing just lead him to be unsure about himself, since he thought being into sewing would make people think of him as 'unmanly', which lead to the stereotype that's portrayed on the Midnight Channel.
As soon as he sees Yukiko and Chie is swimsuits he starts blushing and looks away and remains silent the entire time. He has a massive, adorable crush on Yukiko for at least the first third of the game (you will notice she is the only one that is [last name]-senpai, and all of his battle remarks toward her are less congratulatory and more admiring). He is definitely attracted to Chihiro (or at the very least is like 'damn, she's hot' which obviously he could do no matter what his orientation).
As for Naoto, there is no indication that he has ever been attracted to any other man, he is confused and dismayed by the attraction, and continually tries to get her to help him prove that he's into women when he finds out the truth.
The impression I got from the blushing and looking away was he's super modest and uncomfortable with girl bits. Their swimsuits were like highcut armor after all and left pretty much nothing to the imagination.
I am gay though and I thought it was super cool they put a non-stereotypical gay character in, so I could just be twisting things around to try to make him more gay than he is. But really the only indication I ever got that he wasn't was when he told Naoto to help "make him a man" at the swimsuit contest, and I think that was more him trying to be manly around Yosuke, who has been nothing but a dick to him regarding his sexuality.
But even if you say he has a crush on Yukiko and Chihiro (which really isn't super well established, I think you'd agree), that still doesn't explain the coming out remarks, or his acceptance of his Shadow as himself. None of the other characters have to do that at max S.Link. It's like the script-writers inserted it specifically to clear up this kind of "is-he-or-isn't-he" debate.
And let's be honest, Chihiro is a permanent beard, more or less. I still haven't finished Persona 3 but it's so painfully obvious that she's a lesbian that it's a wonder she isn't in the lady's room muffdiving whenever you want to start a Justice activity.
Kanji likes male Naoto, Kanji likes female Naoto, Kanji's only about 17. Man's gotta figure out what a man's gotta figure out, nothin' wrong with that dammit!
The impression I got from the blushing and looking away was he's super modest and uncomfortable with girl bits. Their swimsuits were like highcut armor after all and left pretty much nothing to the imagination.
Well, that may be, but they wear the armor under their uniforms in this one :P
edit: wait, hold on, I'm a retard and read that wrong.
Kanji likes male Naoto, Kanji likes female Naoto, Kanji's only about 17. Man's gotta figure out what a man's gotta figure out, nothin' wrong with that dammit!
Yeah, this is my stance. Guy questioned his sexuality and found out the answer was 'straight.' Which is perfectly okay.
Surprising this debate has gone on so long. It seems unlikely to me Kanji is gay given what we know. For one, his shadow acted flamboyantly gay because ALL of the shadows, untill directly in conversation with their other half, were primarily acting as TV personalities. Their function was to be outrrrrageous and horrifically exaggerated, to make you go "what a scoop!". When you got down to it though, Shadow Kanji had very little to do with being gay.
Kanji is having an identity crisis because the people around him growing up were generally pretty unpleasant to him about a male liking feminine things. He has had it beaten into his skull that he can't be a standard male while liking the things he likes, knitting, sewing, etc. On top of that, most girls couldn't even relate to him despite his "more girly hobbies". His solution was to act hyper manly and say "PFFT SCREW GIRLS" because as far as he could tell he had no other alternative.
Once he dealt with his Shadow and found acceptance in the party though...well he starts showing a hell of a lot of interest in girls and approximately zero in guys. The evidence is adding up towards something here, but gay is not it.
I don't see how you could say that, Fiaryn. Specifically the stuff about his Shadow being him, him having to come out, his nosebleed during the camping trip, blah blah. Pretty much everything I said over the last page.
And, as a final piece of evidence... At the end of his S.Link, Kanji literally says "Boku wo ukete." "Kure" is the implied verb here so he's roughly saying "Accept me." Interestingly, this is almost exactly the same phrase his Shadow can say during the boss fight: "Boku wo ukereite yo!"
Uke, besides being the verb 'to receive', is the Japanese term for the receptive partner in a gay relationship. I don't think the word choice, or Kanji's reference to what his Shadow says, is at all a mistake in either case.
Anyway! The result of all this: at the very least he's clearly not straight. Let's call him bisexual. Can we agree on that, anyway?
Veraticus on
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
It's all up to your interpretation, and yours is obviously fixed in that particular direction, so to each their own.
When he says "is that how you came out?" or whatever, its not meaning coming out of the closet, he's referring to how the characters shadow came out. He wanted to know what Chie's shadow was like.
Was it Chie? I could've sworn it was Yukiko. And then she smacks him, realizes what he meant, and was all "Sorry. I'll be more gentle next time" and he goes "Next time! "
Blackjack on
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
0
PunkBoyThank you! And thank you again!Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
Man, the nosebleed thing went over my head at first. I actually thought it was a wound from the other night opening up again.
Also, there's a scene when the group is talking about going to the Amagi Inn, and Kanji gets creepily excited about being in the same hotspring Yukiko has bathed in.
PunkBoy on
Steam ID:
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At 8 minutes:
Kanji: By the way, I've been wonderin'... you were kidnapped too, right Yukiko-senpai?
Yukiko: Huh...? Yeah, it wasn't long before you.
Kanji: So like, that means you came out to everyone too?
Yukiko: Th-that's... um...
Kanji: What was it like for Senpai --
*Yukiko slaps him*
Kanji: Ow!
Yukiko: Oh, sorry! I didn't mean to hit you so hard!
Kanji: My jaw!
Yukiko: I'll be more gentle next time...
Kanji: More... gentle...? (with little heart over his head)
I don't know what to make of this anymore. Obviously he thinks he was outed, and I think it's pretty clear he isn't referring to his Shadow. But then he wants to be gentle with Yukiko. Maybe bi is the right answer.
Count me in the camp that believes Kanji's not gay at all. His Shadow's a twisted manifestation of his fears and insecurities, and is not truly what his 'real self' is. Only Kanji knows the full, true meaning of what his Shadow represents, and what his true self really is. Over the course of the S.Link, he learns to be true to his talents and hobbies, and not to hide them under the tough facade that he has put up over the years.
As geeky as it is, I, no joke, would buy the Inaba uniform. That visible stitching is badass.
That reminds me of some links I came across a while ago. Apparently the Japanese website Cospa is selling Persona 4 gear, just as they do for many other series, including Kanji'sShirts and the Males' Uniform. Of course, the prices are rather expensive. And the process of trying to import, potentially a tricky issue.
... which is why I'm trying to see if my sister can craft anything similar.
Posts
Ah well. As long as it gets here.
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
oh, but it's not up there yet?
Let's say $40 is the top price you could sell a PS2 game for. Most games sell for $30 or less now, so for $40 you'd better be throwing in something nice like an art book or a little doll or something (hint). How much would you charge for two games bundled together? $50, max. Not $60, because store reps will look at that price for a PS2 game and walk away laughing.
So, even if the 2-game bundle sold for $50, is it cost-effective to do so when it's basically one game for $40 and the second for $10? No.
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
they would have to retranslate Nocturne and that would shove DS2 into late 2009, a time when a PS2 game would NOT be financially viable
Yeah I figured that was the most likely reason. Perhaps if it was the equivalent of a Nocturne FES maybe we would have had a chance but I can't blame the decision. Spending all that money and using up resources to bring over a Dante re-skin just isn't worth it. The changes to that data would have also meant you couldn't print the same disc and then the different disc art it would've needed... yeah that just wasn't happening. I think most of us were only curious to see how the coin flip and Dante tag worked out anyhow.
I think everyone is happy with Raihou though because a ton of us have been waiting for any kind of Jack Frost doll after the office building dungeon in DDS2. I know I have.
Zephyr, not much would have to be translated really. Raidou is just a Dante reskin. I figure all the data on the disc not related to him was probably exactly the same. They could've just done a kind of switcheroo with the data right? I mean, they didn't retranslate every line of dialogue in FES.... did they?
So Im happy with my copy for now. I finally started playing it again today after so long and man, I feel bad I stopped. Oh and whats a good skill set for the final boss as well? As well as some good demons and the like? I know Im basically asking how to beat him here but...I really just cant seem to. I just need some sort of direction on this. Maybe I just need to think it through a bit more or something...
Edit: if I need to do any crazy demon making Im up for it. With my 360 done with for a while all Ill be playing is Nocturne/random PS2 games for a while.
Edit 2: and before anyone says anything, yes, I have asked this before. But last time I had to stop playing the game and its been a while since Ive played it. I suppose I could check Gamefaqs but I like asking people here rather than the FAQs.
Edit 3: actually....now that I think about it, I think the whole plan of attack for most end bosses was just a lot of Fog Breath/War Cry...hmmm and of course focus and freikugel but.
That said, the DS is so far the JRPG system this gen. I'm half expecting the series to jump there.
Either way, they'd be following Dragon Quest.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=22015
This was something we talked about a few times, at least in relation to what degree a dick Yosuke is, so it's interesting that the semi-mainstream media picked up on it as well.
He was afraid of girls and how they would treat him if they knew about his hobbies and interests, and then came Naoto, and his feelings towards him just confused him further.
But then we find out
AT MOST he has a bit of bicuriosity, but dude crushes on girls all over the place.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
He sees the main character and Yosuke in swim suits and ends up getting a nosebleed. He gets kissed by Teddie. And at the end of his S.Link, he says that his Shadow IS him. It doesn't get a whole lot clearer than that, considering what his Shadow was like.
Being gay is kinda different in Japan, though, as that linked article points out. For our purposes, though: he's sexually interested in guys, which I think is what we would qualify as gay.
The girls were in swimsuits as well, Teddie kissed him, and his shadow is a product and distortion of his discomfort around girls. Meanwhile you've got the Naoto situation, plus he several times demonstrates attraction to girls, such as (September school trip)
while never showing sexual interest in any male character aside from Naoto.
Also I can't believe we're having this discussion.
1. I'm pretty sure the nosebleed was from seeing Yukiko and Chie as its after they show up that he has his back turned the rest of the time.
2. I don't know if you've noticed this but the Shadows are a bit overblown in what they represent. Kanji thinks he might be gay because he likes non-manly things and hates that part of him, suppressing it with the tough guy act. He is not in fact a flaming homosexual, just like Yukiko isn't a slutty princess or Chie a slutty dominatrix or Rise a...uh...slut.
Well okay I'm not sure on that last one but my point stands. The Shadows are just as much what the character thinks that side of them is like just as much as being that side itself. Kanji is sexually confused at best.
Seriously. He asks Chie, regarding her Shadow, "is that how you came out too?" Do you think he's asking that because he came out... as straight... as a result of his experiences?
The nosebleed happened immediately after the guys were shoved into the water, and he was watching them. You can possibly argue that it was a delayed reaction to girls in swimsuits, but speaking as a guy, if you see something that's hot, believe me, the reaction is not very delayed.
I never argued that Kanji is a flaming homosexual. But the point of his Shadow is that he IS gay and can't reconcile that with his position in society. At the end of his S.Link he says that his Shadow his him: he completely accepts the gay side of himself and has channeled it constructively into helping people and doing classes, rather than raging against it and trying to destroy things.
I really don't remember his attraction to Chihiro, but his attraction to Naoto and subsequent confusion when things clear up regarding him should clearly show that he's at least definitely not straight, and probably pretty gay. But I mean, really, he asked Chie if she came out TOO. What is that supposed to mean except that he feels he was forced out of the closet?
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I am gay though and I thought it was super cool they put a non-stereotypical gay character in, so I could just be twisting things around to try to make him more gay than he is. But really the only indication I ever got that he wasn't was when he told Naoto to help "make him a man" at the swimsuit contest, and I think that was more him trying to be manly around Yosuke, who has been nothing but a dick to him regarding his sexuality.
But even if you say he has a crush on Yukiko and Chihiro (which really isn't super well established, I think you'd agree), that still doesn't explain the coming out remarks, or his acceptance of his Shadow as himself. None of the other characters have to do that at max S.Link. It's like the script-writers inserted it specifically to clear up this kind of "is-he-or-isn't-he" debate.
And let's be honest, Chihiro is a permanent beard, more or less. I still haven't finished Persona 3 but it's so painfully obvious that she's a lesbian that it's a wonder she isn't in the lady's room muffdiving whenever you want to start a Justice activity.
edit: wait, hold on, I'm a retard and read that wrong.
Yeah, this is my stance. Guy questioned his sexuality and found out the answer was 'straight.' Which is perfectly okay.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Kanji is having an identity crisis because the people around him growing up were generally pretty unpleasant to him about a male liking feminine things. He has had it beaten into his skull that he can't be a standard male while liking the things he likes, knitting, sewing, etc. On top of that, most girls couldn't even relate to him despite his "more girly hobbies". His solution was to act hyper manly and say "PFFT SCREW GIRLS" because as far as he could tell he had no other alternative.
Once he dealt with his Shadow and found acceptance in the party though...well he starts showing a hell of a lot of interest in girls and approximately zero in guys. The evidence is adding up towards something here, but gay is not it.
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And, as a final piece of evidence... At the end of his S.Link, Kanji literally says "Boku wo ukete." "Kure" is the implied verb here so he's roughly saying "Accept me." Interestingly, this is almost exactly the same phrase his Shadow can say during the boss fight: "Boku wo ukereite yo!"
Uke, besides being the verb 'to receive', is the Japanese term for the receptive partner in a gay relationship. I don't think the word choice, or Kanji's reference to what his Shadow says, is at all a mistake in either case.
Anyway! The result of all this: at the very least he's clearly not straight. Let's call him bisexual. Can we agree on that, anyway?
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Also, there's a scene when the group is talking about going to the Amagi Inn, and Kanji gets creepily excited about being in the same hotspring Yukiko has bathed in.
At 8 minutes:
Kanji: By the way, I've been wonderin'... you were kidnapped too, right Yukiko-senpai?
Yukiko: Huh...? Yeah, it wasn't long before you.
Kanji: So like, that means you came out to everyone too?
Yukiko: Th-that's... um...
Kanji: What was it like for Senpai --
*Yukiko slaps him*
Kanji: Ow!
Yukiko: Oh, sorry! I didn't mean to hit you so hard!
Kanji: My jaw!
Yukiko: I'll be more gentle next time...
Kanji: More... gentle...? (with little heart over his head)
I don't know what to make of this anymore. Obviously he thinks he was outed, and I think it's pretty clear he isn't referring to his Shadow. But then he wants to be gentle with Yukiko. Maybe bi is the right answer.
But enough of that.
That reminds me of some links I came across a while ago. Apparently the Japanese website Cospa is selling Persona 4 gear, just as they do for many other series, including Kanji's Shirts and the Males' Uniform. Of course, the prices are rather expensive. And the process of trying to import, potentially a tricky issue.
... which is why I'm trying to see if my sister can craft anything similar.
Edit: The uniform would actually make a pretty sweet jacket. I would never wear the pants though.
Although, were I a girl, I may wear the whole thing. Houndstooth is pretty snazzy.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970