Kalecgos seems like the logical choice to replace Malygos. Slightly crazy but generally good-hearted.
I say slightly crazy because he did manifest a blob of sunwell energy into his own RealDoll and then mourned her as he sacrificed her.
Still, probably better than what Maly's turned the rest of the blues into.
Kalec didn't create the Sunwell avatar. He just fell for her. Love makes you do crazy things but he isn't nuts. In fact, he's against the Nexus War and Malygos's current actions.
The grimtotem have more of a story than the taunka do
I find it funny the taunka go from not wanting your help to freinds to conspiring with the horde to kidnap Brann
I have not done the Storm Peaks part of thier quests so I don't know what's next
The specs on 'Ulduar': will it be possible to raid Ulduar in a couple crafted/badge/Heroic purps having not been involved in Maly/OS/Naxx/Sarth/VoA runs? I'm still leveling my Rest. dR00d and am missing out on my guilds farm sessions, heck I haven't even healed a H-WotLK dungeon yet.
The specs on 'Ulduar': will it be possible to raid Ulduar in a couple crafted/badge/Heroic purps having not been involved in Maly/OS/Naxx/Sarth/VoA runs? I'm still leveling my Rest. dR00d and am missing out on my guilds farm sessions, heck I haven't even healed a H-WotLK dungeon yet.
It's supposed to be the next tier up from Naxx.
Think going from Kara to Hyjal.
I doubt it.
Maybe if the rest of your guild is decked out to the extreme in 25 man gear and you're running 10 man, probably, but I still doubt it.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Normal:
If you wore some tanking gear and were appropriate level.....maybe?
If you wore Ret gear and you were 80......probably?
Heroic: No, absolutely not, go to jail. (unless you had a 10m-25m geared healer that can handle you getting critted left and right for hurtful amounts of damage.)
The humans who pretty much lead the Alliance declared war on the Horde, if Thrall got rid of the Forsaken or severed ties with them he would have weaken his own group, yes the Forsaken are not angels but then not all of them are entirely evil, bitter and angry perhaps but most of the dangerous ones that wanted to do the real damage were those that turned traitor and you helped to kill them. So why punish the rest of the Forsaken who had nothing to do with it. Keeping them he keeps an ally, powerful ones at that and there is strength in numbers.
Why give a damn about the butt hurt of a human king who basically called you trash and said he wanted to wipe you out due to his rage. Besides there are good and evil people in each of the factions and some of them are pretty high up in power so don’t be surprised one day if some one in the Alliance does a deed that’s just as bad as the traitors in the Forsaken had done. If WoW has taught us anything it’s the ones you know that you got to fear and likely will need to be put down like a dog in the end.
Why should the horde ditch the forsaken?
1. They've developed a plague that will wipe out Ally and Enemy alike, sparing only the Forsaken. They developed it with the intent of using it on both the Alliance and the Horde. They are clearly planning to betray the Horde.
Again, the actual group responsible for that was wiped out. Putress and Varimathras were working behind Sylvanas's back and TOOK CONTROL of the Undercity. Hence why she helped beat the shit out of them. Also, unrelated to your statement, but I don't see anything that would suggest the Forsaken themselves are immune to their plague. I imagine they just planned on never getting caught in it.
2. They are keeping a fucking demon around as an adviser. The Orcs just spent centuries being the slaves of the Legion. They still bear the taint of the legion. As much as the hardcore members may hate the Alliance....the Legion is higher on the shit list. The Forsaken are dumb enough to think they can keep them as pets.
There's numerous warlocks within both the horde and alliance that specifically keep demons as pets and servents. Sylvanas had cowed Varimathras into servitude, he betrayed her just as any human, orc, tauren, night elf or even draenei is capable of doing and and was executed for it.
3. The Forsaken are stirring up trouble all over the place. Look at their relationship with the Grimtotem tribe.
I doubt that relationship runs deep, as the Grimtotem seem to hate everybody.
The original plan for the Forsaken plague was for it to be used against the Scourge. Sylvanas wants revenge against Arthas and the Scourge for scouring Quel'Thalas and turning her undead. She hasn't shown any indication of desiring the destruction of anyone or anything except the Scourge. (Well, and the Scarlet Crusade; but those guys are dicks and deserve it.). Yes there are some Forsaken who are taking things further; but a bunch of them got killed when they made their move and, really, every faction has it's assholes. (I mean, Thrall himself keeps Shadow Council members around, despite knowing full well their identities.)
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FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
The Scarlet Crusade is like cockroaches. You can never wipe them out completely.
I'd like to see a new Scarlet Crusade-type-citadel dungeon. I enjoyed taking on the 'crazy, xeno-phobic' humans in Old Azeroth. SM, and Living Stratholme had great stories associated with them.
I still see Thrall and Magni Bronzebeard as two very powerful people have not been corrupted. Along with Ysera, Alexstra(sp?) and Nozudomu as well. Malyagos has been mad for a long time though if I remember right, since he saw about 90% of his flight get vaporized by Deathwing during the first legion invasion so him being a bad guy doesn't bug me. Killing him though and him not being put into a prision of some sort does seeing how is an aspect, the very essence of magic in Azeroth and with out him there should be no magic. Kind of like Deathwing is supposedly being "taken care" by the red flight.
The following is speculation:
Nozdormu is incredibly corrupt. As part of his power over time, the Titans showed him when he would die and told him nothing could prevent it. He's not only the leader of the Bronze Dragonflight, where he has his mate in the Caverns of Time managing to keep reality on the proper course, but he's also the power behind the Inifinite Dragonflight that seeks to knock time off of it's proper course. He's trying to derail time so that his death will not come to pass.
Ysera has fallen so far into her dreamlands that she no longer has any contact with reality.
The Scourge sacked Lordaeron and corrupted Arthas. The humans are mad about this.
The Scourge sacked Qual'Thanas and torched the Sunwell. The Blood Elves are mad about this.
The Scourge took the fallen soldiers of the previous two groups, enslaved their souls, stuffed them back into their decaying bodies, and made them go out and kill their own friends and loved ones until Sylvanas managed to give them their freedom back at which point they'd realized what they'd done.
The Forsaken are super, mega, ultra pissed about this. I'd suspect that destroying the Lich King is pretty much an all-consuming obsession for many of them, Sylvanas included. I don't think they intend any sort of "backstab Thrall" style treachery, more that they just don't care who they have to step on in their quest for vengeance.
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Cog in the machine Cog Herder
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Again, the actual group responsible for that was wiped out. Putress and Varimathras were working behind Sylvanas's back and TOOK CONTROL of the Undercity. Hence why she helped beat the shit out of them. Also, unrelated to your statement, but I don't see anything that would suggest the Forsaken themselves are immune to their plague. I imagine they just planned on never getting caught in it.
I was unaware that Sylvanas died....since she ordered the research into that plague. It was created at her command. And given that the primary purpose of the plague is to not only kill everyone living, but to also make them into Forsaken...it can be assumed that the Forsaken have immunity. And the whole reason there was even a rebellion is Sylvanas kept a fucking dread lord as a pet.
There's numerous warlocks within both the horde and alliance that specifically keep demons as pets and servents. Sylvanas had cowed Varimathras into servitude, he betrayed her just as any human, orc, tauren, night elf or even draenei is capable of doing and and was executed for it.
And those Warlocks aren't faction leaders and they aren't attempting to keep Dreadlords as pets. A group of demons noted for their cunning. Sylvanas's arrogence runs as deep as her stupidity.
I doubt that relationship runs deep, as the Grimtotem seem to hate everybody.
There are a number of quests that disagree with you on both the Horde and Alliance sides.
You guys make it sound like developing a plague to kill all that lives is much worse than any other group in WoW.
Every character in the game has personally wiped out entire villages of Quillboars, Centaur, Murlocs, humans, trolls, orcs, you name it. Ogres really get the short end of the stick, because when they're not being genocided by 1-5 people at a time, they're being enslaved for forced labor or soldiers.
Poor quillboars. Just sitting in their humble huts out in the back end of a barren, empty desert, surrounded by giant thorns, weaving baskets and blankets, and then BAM. Some jerk shows up and starts setting them on fire and saying "I just need 5 more of these ones and we can go do RFK."
p.s. Guys remember that time we gave prisoners of war those plagued beer samples and they died horribly? Good times.
Obviously you didn't pay attention to any of the Blight quests, at all. It does not simply kill, for it was created with the purpose of destroying what is already dead. The Blight for instance turned a poor Assistant into a puddle of goo when a vial was thrown at him in anger, so the forsaken are most certainly not immune in any way to their plague. Because it has this effect on undead, it obviously does the same thing to the living, which is why it was used as it was in the betrayal.
Varimathras may have been a risky figure to keep as ones majordomo, but his knowledge of the scourge was valuable to the Forsaken in order to begin the creation of the Blight, and also to know of the general inner workings.
I was going to keep arguing this, but I looked up the Forsaken's page on the Wow website.
aving broken free from the tyrannical rule of the Lich King, a renegade group of undead seek to retain their own free will while destroying all those who oppose them. Known as the Forsaken, this group is dedicated to serving their leader, the banshee queen Sylvanas Windrunner. These dark warriors have established a secret stronghold beneath the ruins of Lordaeron's former capital city. Situated deep beneath the cursed Tirisfal Glades, the labyrinthine Undercity is a sprawling bastion of evil. Within its shadowy confines, Sylvanas' royal apothecaries scramble to develop a devastating new plague - one which will not only eradicate their hated Scourge rivals, but the rest of humanity as well. To further their dark aims, the Forsaken have entered into an alliance of convenience with the primitive, brutish races of the Horde. Holding no real loyalty for their newfound comrades, the Forsaken have duped them into fighting against their common enemy - the Lich King. Only time will tell how these disciples of doom will fare in their mission of vengeance.
So the plague Sylvanas commissioned was intended to slay humanity (but no other race it seems.) and not just the scourge like I thought. That's is fairly evil, but again, there's a lot of members of the Horde who have an extreme hatred of Humanity and wouldn't shed a tear if they were wiped out. It's a bit of a step between that and attacking every last thing on Azeroth, living or undead.
However, beyond that, the plague unleashed by Putress appears to be different; it just flat-out killed everything. Scourge, Humans, Orcs. And it didn't seem to be raising them into Forsaken either. It's not Sylvanas's fault that some renegades took her plan and went a completely nutjob direction with it, taking it from a tool for revenge and propagation (at the expense of humanity) to a doomsday weapon.
As for Varimathras; again, Sylvanas had cowed Varimathras enough that he helped defeat his two brothers and, as far as Sylvanas saw, KILL one of them with his own hands, despite it being against major Burning Legion laws. But again, it doesn't take a Dreadlord to betray someone. He couldn't have done it without help from individuals like Putress.
There are a number of quests that disagree with you on both the Horde and Alliance sides.
I didn't say it was non-existant; I just said it didn't run deep. A loose associated of a few members.
We were fighting 25 man Patchwerk Usual Deal. Weaker Main tank and the two stronger tanks as OT for the hateful strikes. I was one of the OT's. Things are going well, Patchwerk goes down to about 4 million health of his 13 or so million.
Then the freaking main tank dies, and as you know the melee starts getting one shotted, fast. Pretty soon the other tank goes down and it is just me left in melee range. Being and DK and having some fun with this I start popping everything I have and we get patchwerk from 4 million down to 2 million before he proceeds to unload 45,943 damage to me in 0.49 seconds. Ouch.
I was going to keep arguing this, but I looked up the Forsaken's page on the Wow website.
aving broken free from the tyrannical rule of the Lich King, a renegade group of undead seek to retain their own free will while destroying all those who oppose them. Known as the Forsaken, this group is dedicated to serving their leader, the banshee queen Sylvanas Windrunner. These dark warriors have established a secret stronghold beneath the ruins of Lordaeron's former capital city. Situated deep beneath the cursed Tirisfal Glades, the labyrinthine Undercity is a sprawling bastion of evil. Within its shadowy confines, Sylvanas' royal apothecaries scramble to develop a devastating new plague - one which will not only eradicate their hated Scourge rivals, but the rest of humanity as well. To further their dark aims, the Forsaken have entered into an alliance of convenience with the primitive, brutish races of the Horde. Holding no real loyalty for their newfound comrades, the Forsaken have duped them into fighting against their common enemy - the Lich King. Only time will tell how these disciples of doom will fare in their mission of vengeance.
So the plague Sylvanas commissioned was intended to slay humanity (but no other race it seems.) and not just the scourge like I thought. That's is fairly evil, but again, there's a lot of members of the Horde who have an extreme hatred of Humanity and wouldn't shed a tear if they were wiped out. It's a bit of a step between that and attacking every last thing on Azeroth, living or undead.
However, beyond that, the plague unleashed by Putress appears to be different; it just flat-out killed everything. Scourge, Humans, Orcs. And it didn't seem to be raising them into Forsaken either. It's not Sylvanas's fault that some renegades took her plan and went a completely nutjob direction with it, taking it from a tool for revenge and propagation (at the expense of humanity) to a doomsday weapon.
As for Varimathras; again, Sylvanas had cowed Varimathras enough that he helped defeat his two brothers and, as far as Sylvanas saw, KILL one of them with his own hands, despite it being against major Burning Legion laws. But again, it doesn't take a Dreadlord to betray someone. He couldn't have done it without help from individuals like Putress.
There are a number of quests that disagree with you on both the Horde and Alliance sides.
I didn't say it was non-existant; I just said it didn't run deep. A loose associated of a few members.
So Sylvanas is Hitler.
Putress and Varimathras are Tom Cruise.
The new plague is Sylvanas' "Project Valkyrie", unaware of the changes made to it...
They never did explain how that dreadlord that we saw Varimathras kill survived did they? I guess we're just supposed to assume Vari tricked all the witnesses and the player who were watching as he blew up his brother?
And how come nobody in the Horde thought it might be a good idea to report back to Sylvannas after clearing the Scarlet Bastion in Stratholme?
Also, why is Detheroc still dead? He seemed to be more powerful than both of his brothers (mind controlled an entire army) and his death could be easily explained as "Jedi Mind Trick'd Sylvannas into thinking she had killed him with her little arrows." You'd think it would have made more sense to stick him in the Scarlet Bastion instead of the other dead brother.
On a semi-related note, if an Alliance raid group hits Undercity, and some of them have for some reason not completed the Wrathgate storyline, does Varimathras destroy them while the rest of the group can't even see him? Or would the raid be in two entirely different phases and can't even see each other (one group seeing only Sylvannas, the other seeing a different Sylvannas + Varimathras)?
If it's the second one, then that could be interesting because then Horde players couldn't defend Undercity against pre-Wrathgate players if they had already completed it themselves. So you're choice as Alliance for this achievement would be:
A)Complete Wrathgate and fight only Sylvannas and whatever high level players may be around
B)Wait on completing Wrathgate and fight Sylvannas and Varithramas, but only have to deal with low-level players in all likelihood
Of course, I suppose it's possible Blizzard has just set it up so that Alliance never sees Varimathras anymore so your raid doesn't get split by phasing.
Edit: In regards to phasing, can you permanently miss out on any quests due to the quest giver being phased out? Especially in Icecrown where there is supposed to be a lot of phasing?
I'd like to see a new Scarlet Crusade-type-citadel dungeon. I enjoyed taking on the 'crazy, xeno-phobic' humans in Old Azeroth. SM, and Living Stratholme had great stories associated with them.
I was just exploring Tyr's Hand for the first time the other day. The Scarlet Crusade is awesome! :^:
A little thought about Sylvannas....she really thought she'd cowed a Dreadlord into subservience? It's a frakkin' Dreadlord! These guys are infamous for treachery and manipulation. Her first mistake was in letting him live. Her second was not keeping a closer eye on him. She should have had him tortured for information and then executed. And I doubt she's terribly upset that a bunch of alliance and horde soldiers got killed by some blight. She's more concerned with power and keeping her throne.
The only reason the Forsaken were let into the Horde was because the Tauren believed they could find a cure of some sort and Thrall has a soft spot for the whole redemption thing. Magatha Grimtotem might have had some influence on them getting in(I don't recall). The Forsaken probably don't believe it's even possible to be cured at this point but sure, they'll go along with it if it furthers their plans.
Even if some of the Forsaken have personal misgivings about some of the things they're told to do, none of them are going to go against the wishes of Sylvannas(traitors not withstanding). She freed them from the Lich King's control plus she's always pms'ing. She'll slaughter anyone that stands in her way and all that.
Kalecgos seems like the logical choice to replace Malygos. Slightly crazy but generally good-hearted.
I say slightly crazy because he did manifest a blob of sunwell energy into his own RealDoll and then mourned her as he sacrificed her.
Still, probably better than what Maly's turned the rest of the blues into.
Kalec didn't create the Sunwell avatar. He just fell for her. Love makes you do crazy things but he isn't nuts. In fact, he's against the Nexus War and Malygos's current actions.
Actually, yes he did create the avatar, specifically to hide the sunwell energies from the Lich King, who apparently assumed the Sunwell as completely destroyed (like everyone else). Dar'Khan Drathir originally discovered the avatar, which led to "her" being brought back to the sunwell island.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
A little thought about Sylvannas....she really thought she'd cowed a Dreadlord into subservience? It's a frakkin' Dreadlord! These guys are infamous for treachery and manipulation. Her first mistake was in letting him live. Her second was not keeping a closer eye on him. She should have had him tortured for information and then executed. And I doubt she's terribly upset that a bunch of alliance and horde soldiers got killed by some blight. She's more concerned with power and keeping her throne.
While I'm sure she cares about power, her lust for revenge against the Lich King is far greater.
I'm sure she'll jump at any stupid shit to try to take down the Lich King.
(She's specifically pissed at Arthas, but Arthas went and hid his soul inside of the Lich King's soul.)
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
You guys make it sound like developing a plague to kill all that lives is much worse than any other group in WoW.
Every character in the game has personally wiped out entire villages of Quillboars, Centaur, Murlocs, humans, trolls, orcs, you name it. Ogres really get the short end of the stick, because when they're not being genocided by 1-5 people at a time, they're being enslaved for forced labor or soldiers.
Poor quillboars. Just sitting in their humble huts out in the back end of a barren, empty desert, surrounded by giant thorns, weaving baskets and blankets, and then BAM. Some jerk shows up and starts setting them on fire and saying "I just need 5 more of these ones and we can go do RFK."
p.s. Guys remember that time we gave prisoners of war those plagued beer samples and they died horribly? Good times.
I kill that motherfucking apothecary every time my travels take me past Taren Mill.
Every time. Fuck the Forsaken. From the Alliance perspective they are indistinguishable from the Scourge.
On a semi-related note, if an Alliance raid group hits Undercity, and some of them have for some reason not completed the Wrathgate storyline, does Varimathras destroy them while the rest of the group can't even see him? Or would the raid be in two entirely different phases and can't even see each other (one group seeing only Sylvannas, the other seeing a different Sylvannas + Varimathras)?
If it's the second one, then that could be interesting because then Horde players couldn't defend Undercity against pre-Wrathgate players if they had already completed it themselves. So you're choice as Alliance for this achievement would be:
A)Complete Wrathgate and fight only Sylvannas and whatever high level players may be around
B)Wait on completing Wrathgate and fight Sylvannas and Varithramas, but only have to deal with low-level players in all likelihood
Of course, I suppose it's possible Blizzard has just set it up so that Alliance never sees Varimathras anymore so your raid doesn't get split by phasing.
It's been a while since I've raided UC, but IIRC, Vari is simply gone at this point for Alliance. In fact, we raided after 3.0 but pre-LK, and I don't think he was there even then.
Edit: In regards to phasing, can you permanently miss out on any quests due to the quest giver being phased out? Especially in Icecrown where there is supposed to be a lot of phasing?
Phasing is done very carefully, so that it's impossible to "miss" a questgiver. Nice job on their part.
p.s. Guys remember that time we gave prisoners of war those plagued beer samples and they died horribly? Good times.
I kill that motherfucking apothecary every time my travels take me past Taren Mill.
Every time. Fuck the Forsaken. From the Alliance perspective they are indistinguishable from the Scourge.
Bwahahaha. I wish I could do dailies for Royal Apothecary Society rep.
"Take the [Marketing Questionnaire Clipboard] to 10 prisoners and discover if they prefer the flavor of Classic Blight or new Diet Blight and report back to Chief Plaguebringer Harris."
On a chord, I try to ignore King Varian Wrynn's very existence. He's quite possibly the absolute stupidest character I've ever seen, including in fanfiction.
On a chord, I try to ignore King Varian Wrynn's very existence. He's quite possibly the absolute stupidest character I've ever seen, including in fanfiction.
You must not read a lot.
He's pretty on par with the typical human xenophobic WAR-WAR-WAR-WARCRAFT routine. Nothing out of the ordinary there, or... non understandable. I'd find it pretty lethargic if someone had been thrown into combat against their will and then went "meh water under the bridge right guys?" instead of getting temperamental and blowing a gasket trying to fight for shit.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
It's less that he's angry and upset, but the fact that Thrall was raised as a slave (It's even his fucking NAME), betrayed, mistreated, and abused by Humans his whole life, and his whole outlook is "Water under the bridge. I'm not savage like my ancestors."
Whereas Variann Wrynn spends MUCH less time, and yes he does get fucked with (well, to be fair, all we have for proof is the WoW comic that no one told Walt Simonson the Horde wasn't exactly evil, which led to the Tauren being sneaky conniving lying bastards.) and his first response upon seeing Thrall is "GRRRRRRRR MUST KILL SMELLY GREEN MAN!"
It'd be fine if he was like "We want Lordaeron back. We know it's not yours OR Sylvannis' fault that it was taken, but so long as it's under Horde control, we will fight to reclaim it."
Then it'd show that he was rational, thinking this through, but refused to budge on his stance.
Instead he's like "HEY ORC, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY GODDAMN CITY FIVE SECONDS AGO! WHAT? YOU'RE STILL THERE? WAR!"
"But..."
"WAR!"
His entire life the Orcs have been killing his people. I'd be pissed too.
Yeah look at Vol'Jin, who has pretty much had his entire race nearly wiped out by Murlocs. Look at how much he hates them, constantly sending you on raids to Murloc villages and overall being a xenophobic prick to anything even slightly sea-faring and small.
Except, wait. A Troll, one of the most xenophobic races in Azeroth, is less xenophobic than him.
Posts
Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha
Kalec didn't create the Sunwell avatar. He just fell for her. Love makes you do crazy things but he isn't nuts. In fact, he's against the Nexus War and Malygos's current actions.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
The grimtotem have more of a story than the taunka do
I find it funny the taunka go from not wanting your help to freinds to conspiring with the horde to kidnap Brann
I have not done the Storm Peaks part of thier quests so I don't know what's next
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It's supposed to be the next tier up from Naxx.
Think going from Kara to Hyjal.
I doubt it.
Maybe if the rest of your guild is decked out to the extreme in 25 man gear and you're running 10 man, probably, but I still doubt it.
Depends, how much HP do you have?
Normal? More than likely. Heroic? Not a chance.
Also assuming you're not level 68.
Ayliana Moonwhisper Ecksus Cerazal
Normal:
If you wore some tanking gear and were appropriate level.....maybe?
If you wore Ret gear and you were 80......probably?
Heroic: No, absolutely not, go to jail. (unless you had a 10m-25m geared healer that can handle you getting critted left and right for hurtful amounts of damage.)
There's numerous warlocks within both the horde and alliance that specifically keep demons as pets and servents. Sylvanas had cowed Varimathras into servitude, he betrayed her just as any human, orc, tauren, night elf or even draenei is capable of doing and and was executed for it.
I doubt that relationship runs deep, as the Grimtotem seem to hate everybody.
The original plan for the Forsaken plague was for it to be used against the Scourge. Sylvanas wants revenge against Arthas and the Scourge for scouring Quel'Thalas and turning her undead. She hasn't shown any indication of desiring the destruction of anyone or anything except the Scourge. (Well, and the Scarlet Crusade; but those guys are dicks and deserve it.). Yes there are some Forsaken who are taking things further; but a bunch of them got killed when they made their move and, really, every faction has it's assholes. (I mean, Thrall himself keeps Shadow Council members around, despite knowing full well their identities.)
Especially when Dreadlords seem to be using them as their own personal toybox.
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The following is speculation:
Nozdormu is incredibly corrupt. As part of his power over time, the Titans showed him when he would die and told him nothing could prevent it. He's not only the leader of the Bronze Dragonflight, where he has his mate in the Caverns of Time managing to keep reality on the proper course, but he's also the power behind the Inifinite Dragonflight that seeks to knock time off of it's proper course. He's trying to derail time so that his death will not come to pass.
Ysera has fallen so far into her dreamlands that she no longer has any contact with reality.
The Scourge sacked Lordaeron and corrupted Arthas. The humans are mad about this.
The Scourge sacked Qual'Thanas and torched the Sunwell. The Blood Elves are mad about this.
The Scourge took the fallen soldiers of the previous two groups, enslaved their souls, stuffed them back into their decaying bodies, and made them go out and kill their own friends and loved ones until Sylvanas managed to give them their freedom back at which point they'd realized what they'd done.
The Forsaken are super, mega, ultra pissed about this. I'd suspect that destroying the Lich King is pretty much an all-consuming obsession for many of them, Sylvanas included. I don't think they intend any sort of "backstab Thrall" style treachery, more that they just don't care who they have to step on in their quest for vengeance.
I was unaware that Sylvanas died....since she ordered the research into that plague. It was created at her command. And given that the primary purpose of the plague is to not only kill everyone living, but to also make them into Forsaken...it can be assumed that the Forsaken have immunity. And the whole reason there was even a rebellion is Sylvanas kept a fucking dread lord as a pet.
And those Warlocks aren't faction leaders and they aren't attempting to keep Dreadlords as pets. A group of demons noted for their cunning. Sylvanas's arrogence runs as deep as her stupidity.
There are a number of quests that disagree with you on both the Horde and Alliance sides.
Every character in the game has personally wiped out entire villages of Quillboars, Centaur, Murlocs, humans, trolls, orcs, you name it. Ogres really get the short end of the stick, because when they're not being genocided by 1-5 people at a time, they're being enslaved for forced labor or soldiers.
Poor quillboars. Just sitting in their humble huts out in the back end of a barren, empty desert, surrounded by giant thorns, weaving baskets and blankets, and then BAM. Some jerk shows up and starts setting them on fire and saying "I just need 5 more of these ones and we can go do RFK."
p.s. Guys remember that time we gave prisoners of war those plagued beer samples and they died horribly? Good times.
Varimathras may have been a risky figure to keep as ones majordomo, but his knowledge of the scourge was valuable to the Forsaken in order to begin the creation of the Blight, and also to know of the general inner workings.
So the plague Sylvanas commissioned was intended to slay humanity (but no other race it seems.) and not just the scourge like I thought. That's is fairly evil, but again, there's a lot of members of the Horde who have an extreme hatred of Humanity and wouldn't shed a tear if they were wiped out. It's a bit of a step between that and attacking every last thing on Azeroth, living or undead.
However, beyond that, the plague unleashed by Putress appears to be different; it just flat-out killed everything. Scourge, Humans, Orcs. And it didn't seem to be raising them into Forsaken either. It's not Sylvanas's fault that some renegades took her plan and went a completely nutjob direction with it, taking it from a tool for revenge and propagation (at the expense of humanity) to a doomsday weapon.
As for Varimathras; again, Sylvanas had cowed Varimathras enough that he helped defeat his two brothers and, as far as Sylvanas saw, KILL one of them with his own hands, despite it being against major Burning Legion laws. But again, it doesn't take a Dreadlord to betray someone. He couldn't have done it without help from individuals like Putress.
I didn't say it was non-existant; I just said it didn't run deep. A loose associated of a few members.
We were fighting 25 man Patchwerk Usual Deal. Weaker Main tank and the two stronger tanks as OT for the hateful strikes. I was one of the OT's. Things are going well, Patchwerk goes down to about 4 million health of his 13 or so million.
Then the freaking main tank dies, and as you know the melee starts getting one shotted, fast. Pretty soon the other tank goes down and it is just me left in melee range. Being and DK and having some fun with this I start popping everything I have and we get patchwerk from 4 million down to 2 million before he proceeds to unload 45,943 damage to me in 0.49 seconds. Ouch.
So Sylvanas is Hitler.
Putress and Varimathras are Tom Cruise.
The new plague is Sylvanas' "Project Valkyrie", unaware of the changes made to it...
8-)
Humans have lame /dances. Hook up the fire hose to the plague machine and let's get this going.
And how come nobody in the Horde thought it might be a good idea to report back to Sylvannas after clearing the Scarlet Bastion in Stratholme?
Also, why is Detheroc still dead? He seemed to be more powerful than both of his brothers (mind controlled an entire army) and his death could be easily explained as "Jedi Mind Trick'd Sylvannas into thinking she had killed him with her little arrows." You'd think it would have made more sense to stick him in the Scarlet Bastion instead of the other dead brother.
On a semi-related note, if an Alliance raid group hits Undercity, and some of them have for some reason not completed the Wrathgate storyline, does Varimathras destroy them while the rest of the group can't even see him? Or would the raid be in two entirely different phases and can't even see each other (one group seeing only Sylvannas, the other seeing a different Sylvannas + Varimathras)?
If it's the second one, then that could be interesting because then Horde players couldn't defend Undercity against pre-Wrathgate players if they had already completed it themselves. So you're choice as Alliance for this achievement would be:
A)Complete Wrathgate and fight only Sylvannas and whatever high level players may be around
B)Wait on completing Wrathgate and fight Sylvannas and Varithramas, but only have to deal with low-level players in all likelihood
Of course, I suppose it's possible Blizzard has just set it up so that Alliance never sees Varimathras anymore so your raid doesn't get split by phasing.
Edit: In regards to phasing, can you permanently miss out on any quests due to the quest giver being phased out? Especially in Icecrown where there is supposed to be a lot of phasing?
The only reason the Forsaken were let into the Horde was because the Tauren believed they could find a cure of some sort and Thrall has a soft spot for the whole redemption thing. Magatha Grimtotem might have had some influence on them getting in(I don't recall). The Forsaken probably don't believe it's even possible to be cured at this point but sure, they'll go along with it if it furthers their plans.
Even if some of the Forsaken have personal misgivings about some of the things they're told to do, none of them are going to go against the wishes of Sylvannas(traitors not withstanding). She freed them from the Lich King's control plus she's always pms'ing. She'll slaughter anyone that stands in her way and all that.
Actually, yes he did create the avatar, specifically to hide the sunwell energies from the Lich King, who apparently assumed the Sunwell as completely destroyed (like everyone else). Dar'Khan Drathir originally discovered the avatar, which led to "her" being brought back to the sunwell island.
While I'm sure she cares about power, her lust for revenge against the Lich King is far greater.
I'm sure she'll jump at any stupid shit to try to take down the Lich King.
(She's specifically pissed at Arthas, but Arthas went and hid his soul inside of the Lich King's soul.)
zomg.
I kill that motherfucking apothecary every time my travels take me past Taren Mill.
Every time. Fuck the Forsaken. From the Alliance perspective they are indistinguishable from the Scourge.
It's been a while since I've raided UC, but IIRC, Vari is simply gone at this point for Alliance. In fact, we raided after 3.0 but pre-LK, and I don't think he was there even then.
Phasing is done very carefully, so that it's impossible to "miss" a questgiver. Nice job on their part.
Bwahahaha. I wish I could do dailies for Royal Apothecary Society rep.
"Take the [Marketing Questionnaire Clipboard] to 10 prisoners and discover if they prefer the flavor of Classic Blight or new Diet Blight and report back to Chief Plaguebringer Harris."
You must not read a lot.
He's pretty on par with the typical human xenophobic WAR-WAR-WAR-WARCRAFT routine. Nothing out of the ordinary there, or... non understandable. I'd find it pretty lethargic if someone had been thrown into combat against their will and then went "meh water under the bridge right guys?" instead of getting temperamental and blowing a gasket trying to fight for shit.
He's still a douche, but it's not like it was unexpected or from left field. Or different from any other major character in a fantasy story.
Fits the story really well though. Makes the humans seem like "Hey we're the good guys, but we do really retarded things and we're really bad people."
Whereas Variann Wrynn spends MUCH less time, and yes he does get fucked with (well, to be fair, all we have for proof is the WoW comic that no one told Walt Simonson the Horde wasn't exactly evil, which led to the Tauren being sneaky conniving lying bastards.) and his first response upon seeing Thrall is "GRRRRRRRR MUST KILL SMELLY GREEN MAN!"
It'd be fine if he was like "We want Lordaeron back. We know it's not yours OR Sylvannis' fault that it was taken, but so long as it's under Horde control, we will fight to reclaim it."
Then it'd show that he was rational, thinking this through, but refused to budge on his stance.
Instead he's like "HEY ORC, GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY GODDAMN CITY FIVE SECONDS AGO! WHAT? YOU'RE STILL THERE? WAR!"
"But..."
"WAR!"
Yeah look at Vol'Jin, who has pretty much had his entire race nearly wiped out by Murlocs. Look at how much he hates them, constantly sending you on raids to Murloc villages and overall being a xenophobic prick to anything even slightly sea-faring and small.
Except, wait. A Troll, one of the most xenophobic races in Azeroth, is less xenophobic than him.
Damn.