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[Engage On] Ring Advice
Kris
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Hello fine H/A forumers. I plan on proposing to my girlfriend sometime this summer, and as such, am starting to browse for engagement rings. Thing is, she is really big on art deco stylings, including ring styles. They are, so far I've found, extremely hard to find in local shops (or $texas), so I've taken to browsing around the net. She has pointed out examples of rings she really likes in the past, so that coupled with how well I know her seems to be helping in the "what to look for" department. Not to mention there seems to be a much larger and awesome selection on the webs (from what I've seen so far). However, I've got a few questions in regards to the prospect of getting an engagement ring online:
1. Every site I've browsed lists the specifications of the ring and all that good informative jazz, but is there a way to tell apart the good, trustworthy sites from the sleazy ones? I'd rather pay a bit more and deal with a good business than have headaches and problems out the wazzoo.
2. Sizing. If I bought a ring online, can I take it to an in-town shop to get it resized at a later date? Or would it have to get sent back to where I purchased from and have then do the resizing? I as-of-yet have never asked her ring size (silly me), and would rather avoid asking her sister or parents, as I'd like to keep this a secret till I pop the question. Would there be an easy way to tell the size of one of her existing rings if I ninja'd it from her jewelry box?
Hmm, guess I only had a couple questions. Maybe I'll think of more later. But these are the two pressing ones on my mind right now, and any help would be so appreciated. Thanks in advance!
1. Every site I've browsed lists the specifications of the ring and all that good informative jazz, but is there a way to tell apart the good, trustworthy sites from the sleazy ones? I'd rather pay a bit more and deal with a good business than have headaches and problems out the wazzoo.
2. Sizing. If I bought a ring online, can I take it to an in-town shop to get it resized at a later date? Or would it have to get sent back to where I purchased from and have then do the resizing? I as-of-yet have never asked her ring size (silly me), and would rather avoid asking her sister or parents, as I'd like to keep this a secret till I pop the question. Would there be an easy way to tell the size of one of her existing rings if I ninja'd it from her jewelry box?
Hmm, guess I only had a couple questions. Maybe I'll think of more later. But these are the two pressing ones on my mind right now, and any help would be so appreciated. Thanks in advance!
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As far as looking up more info, bluenile.com has been a pretty good resource for me.
An "engagement ring" is just a diamond + a setting. The setting is much less important than the diamond (it's way less expensive, easily changed, and will be modified by the wedding band eventually anyway). The common approach is to buy the stone and have it put in a simple solitaire setting of whatever metal your girl prefers. So what you really should be shopping for is a nice diamond, not a ring.
Diamonds are rated in 4 categories: cut, color, clarity, and size. The way diamonds are made now, the "quality" of a cut matters less than it used to; most diamonds you see these days are going to be cut well. Start fishing for what kind of cut she wants (round, princess, emerald, etc). Rounds and princess cuts are the most popular (I got my fiance an Asscher cut, which is sort of a square emerald cut- very cool, but you have to get a high quality stone to pull it off).
Color is graded by letters, A through whatever, A being the best (colorless). Anything above about an F is going to be hard to distinguish with the naked eye. The GHI range seems to be the "sweet spot". Below that and you can see a grey or yellow tint to the shine.
Clarity ratings are a little more complex. Diamonds are rated on a scale like this: internally flawless, flawless, very very slightly included, very slightly included, slightly included, included. Ratings from VVS to I have numbers attached. Diamonds within a clarity grade can vary greatly in visual appearance (another reason you want to lay eyes on what you're buying). There is a point at which the differences between the grades become practically nil; VS2 to SI1 is difficult for a layman to distinguish, for example. VS2 to SI1 is what they call "eye clean"- the point where inclusions are hard to see with the naked eye. Generally, with anything above VS2 you're going to need a jeweler's loupe to see the inclusions (flaws).
You want the stone to be lab-certified. Pick out a few jewelers, find out what lab certifies their stones, then use your google-fu to see if it's a reputable lab or a shop that regularly classifies crap stones as a higher grade (a common practice for disreputable jewelers and, I'd imagine, online shops whose customers never see what they're buying until after the check has cleared).
As for sizing, it's easier to size up then down (stretching a band is easy; shrinking it is hard). I swiped a ring from my fiance's jewelry box that I'd seen her wearing on her right ring finger to get the size; turns out her other hand is about a quarter-size smaller so we have to go get sizing beads put on it (basically small metal balls welded onto the band). Not the end of the world but bear in mind it's really tough to get exactly right on the first try.
My advice is to hit up a bunch of jewelers and look at as many diamonds as you can. Your girl may want a huge rock and not care so much about the color, she may want as white a stone as possible and not care so much about the size. You should know more about the difference between a K SI3 and a G VS1 than just the cost. Really, the best way to do this is to nerd out on it for a few weeks and get educated. It's not something you want to take lightly; she'll be wearing this stone for the rest of your lives (hopefully) so you want to do the best job you can.
tl,dr: go to jewelers, don't buy diamonds online unless you're a pro.
If either group asks why you don't want to get the ring + gem, just say that you want something like this (where this indicates a picture of ring style you want) and that they don't have it and because you don't trust the delivery service employees not to lose/steal a gem this important to you.
Murphy's Paradox: The more you plan, the more that can go wrong. The less you plan, the less likely your plan will succeed.
1. All repuable sites will offer you the paperwork that comes with the diamond. If they don't provide that, beware;
2. If it's too good of a deal to be true, chances are it's not.
Bluenile is a good website, in Canada I'd also suggest http://www.canadian-diamonds-wholesale.com/
The diamond in my mother's wedding ring fell out awhile ago and my father purchased the replacement diamond from there, went very smoothly, no hassles; also the diamond appraised from the local jewellers for a lot more then he paid. You can also search by certification, which I definitely recommend, so you know for sure what you're getting.
I proposed to my wife with a ring sizer (a plastic set of rings of the various sizes). It turns out she didn't even want an engagement ring -- she wanted a single ring with a sapphire (vs. an engagement + wedding band set). Her ring style and my ring style match, which, of course, never would've happened if I'd shopped independently. And she's very happy that she was a part of the process of selecting her ring.
Similarly, the guy who was the best man at my wedding proposed in a more traditional way -- down on one knee, put an engagement ring on her -- but the diamond is simple and the ring is intricate (and a hand-me-down). Some women prefer a simple stone w/ an interesting ring. They had already talked about marriage, though, and essentially selected the ring, so the engagement was more of a romantic gesture, rather than actually making the decision. It simply let them pick the date.
Also, among my friends, not a single one has asked the father for permission. In some circles, that's preferred, but, again, do a mental check to see what works in your situation.
People have said to stay away from online retailers, but I've only heard good things about White Flash.
The thing about sizing is: If the ring is too large, it can always be sized down, especially if it is a a simple band without any sort of engraving or surface embellishment. Because essentially, they cut out a piece of the band to make it a correct size, and then re-solder it to cover the seam. If there is an engraved pattern, it has to be filled in and then re-engraved. Sizing up is exactly the opposite. The band is cut, then another piece is placed in the gap to make it the correct size. Depending on the jeweler, they will charge you an arm and a leg to have this done. This is why it is better to simply have the correct ring size, or at least roughly the correct ring size.
A typical ring size for a woman of average build is 7-8. Typically this is the size of the second knuckle on an average man's pinky finger. This is how I figured out my girlfriends. I asked to see a ring she owned and put it on my pinky finger.
So, you can go that route if you want, but honestly, it is best to just get her ring size and figure out exactly what the correct size it.
Also, everyone is talking about diamonds and shit. An engagement ring =/= diamond+gold. An engagement ring is a symbol of commitment, and continuous love. It can be whatever the hell you want it to be. Don't get tunnel vision when it comes to this. The typical engagement ring is just a half-round band with a diamond prong set. However, this is one of the easiest things a jeweler can make. There are tons of awesome techniques that can be applied to creating a ring. Mokume'Gane, Damascus steel, tension setting, etc etc.
With this in mind, if what she wants is a traditional engagement ring, then get it, but there is so much more that can be done with an engagement ring.
And far as diamonds go...You don't need to buy a diamond of superior quality unless it makes a difference to you knowing it, because I guarantee you wont be able to tell the difference. Hell, you could get a moissanite and you wouldn't be able to tell.
So, my advice; Stay away from online stores, unless they have a very good return policy. Shopping online is a good way to get screwed. Try to find a jeweler, independent or a large scale jeweler, that way you can see a tactile example of what you are getting.
It is possible to get a ring "stretched" if the size difference is small. Likewise, you can add sizing beads to a ring that's slightly too large. You want to get the right size if you can but bear in mind you will probably mess it up the first time unless you flat out ask her "what's the ring size for your left ring finger?"
But! You could give her a ring with a whistle on it, sure, but bear in mind you're not shopping for yourself. Believe me, this is not the time to make a statement about the diamond market or whatever. Your job is to match exactly what she imagines her engagement ring will look like. 99% of the time that means a diamond ring. If you're really worried about the setting, just buy a loose diamond, have it put in a solitaire setting, propose, then go back with her and pick out the "real" engagement band. You can set something else in the old ring. That's what I thought we'd be doing but it turns out she loves the simple band.
See, this is why you go look at stones. As you move up the clarity scale, at a certain point the differences become academic but you really will be able to tell the difference between a high and low quality stone after a trivial amount of self-education. You may not be able to put a grade to it but I promise you if you look at a K I2 you'll know it's a crap stone unless it's really, really small. It may not matter to your girl, though. She may want a 1.5 carat lump of grey rock, or she may want a half-carat VVS.
I wish I'd thought of this. I ended up losing the ring I borrowed for sizing.
I'll also second Forbe's advice about dealing with an actual jeweller in person. It's really hard to gauge quality over the internet, and it's really easy to get taken for a ride by some shady hack who makes a living on the assumption that most people can't tell the difference between the 24kt gold they're paying for and the 14kt gold they actually get. It'll probably be tough to find a current jeweller who specializes in art deco stuff, though, so you might need to compromise: buy a ring (maybe online, maybe you could get lucky and score a nice vintage piece at an auction), then take it to a jeweller to have it cleaned up, properly sized, and fitted with the stone(s) of your choice.
Stretching a cast piece of metal is a bad idea, especially when it is over a size, the cast grain is prone to fracturing. Sizing beads are a poor solution to a sizing problem. They look ugly, and don't compare to the fit of a properly fitted ring.
I wasn't suggesting that. When all you know your entire life is gold band + pretty diamond, your interpretation of an engagement ring is narrow. I'm suggesting that he explores other options. Which is why shopping for a ring together is a good idea.
Srsly.
I'm going to defer to the guy who clearly knows what he's talking about when it comes to resizing. All I've ever had done is sizing down with the beads; the "you can stretch it" plan comes from something I heard from a friend of mine, so please disregard.
As for the diamond solitaire, I was suggesting that as more of a starting point so the OP wouldn't have to pick out the ring all by himself in order to avoid ruining the surprise. Personally I think it's not much fun to go to a store with your girlfriend, pick out a ring, and be like "alright I guess we're engaged now." The solitaire is the most flexible option while still maintaining secrecy, and you might get lucky (like me) and your fiance loves the simplicity of it.
We also looked at men's rings to see which ones were most comfortable for him, so if for some reason I decide to propose, I can
But yeah, I think this is a decision to at least ponder together, and I'm not sure that engagements should always be a total shock/surprise. Not everyone like surprises. Some people love them. You know your girlfriend best, so don't do anything out of character just because you're in proposal mode.
They're real diamonds, pure carbon, and in many ways they're way better than ones in the ground because they don't have any imperfections. They were also supposed to be a lot cheaper. Again, I don't know if you can find them yet, as I haven't heard anything about them since. If your wife doesn't mind getting a diamond that didn't come out of the ground, there's the added benefit that the money isn't going into African rebels. At the least, it might be worth looking into.
Looks like they're for sale. Here is an article about them.
I was able to get a lot more diamond for my money from them and my woman loves it. I think the whole three c's go to a million stores thing is overrated.
The three c's are over rated?
Women get an engagement ring and a wedding band. The band can replace the ring, or she can wear both at the same time. If it's the latter, it needs to be designed for that to look good. Do you have any pictures of art-deco rings you think she would like? Maybe wearing both just won't work. For instance, I know that my girl has her heart set on this type of ring.
Even though it could be done, it wouldn't look right in my opinion to make that design using an engagement ring and a wedding band.
To get her ring size you have a few options. "Borrow" a ring as said before. Go to a jewelry store to look for a watch, take the salesman aside and get him/her to find out her ring size. Ask someone who has bought her a ring, her mom? Propose with something cute and silly (Ring Pop!) and shop together.
Maybe you can find a custom jeweler to go to. I don't know what they charge, but if you take in some images of things that you like they will be able to make a custom piece for you.
Me and the girlfriend know we'll be married eventually, and have been talking about it and making plans for a while now, so at least there won't be any "omg eww no" surprises. :P I basically told her that since I'm just fresh out of school, I'd have some working to do and debts to pay off before we get engaged, but that it would hopefully happen before the end of this year. So I'm hoping that doing it in July/August-ish would give it just a bit of the surprise factor without being crazy (off-topic: I've been thinking of taking her on a relaxing camping trip and proposing during it, since we both love camping and the outdoors. Still unsure about that though).
And yes, apparently she is quite like you. She has specified she does not want a generic engagement ring (you know, the kind you see every girl wearing almost. Simple band/h00ge diamond). She is in love with antique and art deco styled rings, which is mainly why I've leaned more towards online, at least for the band. From the bit of browsing in-store I've done, bands like that aren't hard to come by, or are the big moneys. I guess now I have to decide whether to get the diamond with the band, or separately, and if so, whether to get it in store or online. Seem to be a few differing opinions here on that topic.
Hehe. Nah, I definitely wouldn't go the "father permission" route. I think it's ridiculous, as I love my girlfriend like crazy, and I wouldn't just drop spending my life with her because he says no (not that it would happen. We get along great and she says he apparently loves me. Hopefully he won't propose to me first.
I do have a couple pictures, since she's been browsing online and sending me links to stuff she likes. And then adds a little blurb saying "don't think I'm trying to rush you or anything". :P She's sweet.
This one is her favorite.
This is another one she really liked.
Here are a couple I've liked so far.
Satans..... hints.....
And Improvolone, that is also a big question at the moment (regarding the wedding band). She had mentioned previously that she would probably wear the engagement ring most of the time, and wear the wedding band on occasions when something flashier is not appropriate. However, I have zero clue about what she expects/wants the band to look like, so I'll try and ask her sometime this week. Try and sound like I'm just vaguely curious or something. :P
It means she wants the real pretty thing now, and that you and she will pick out matching bands. It also means it sounds like she will only wear one at a time (at least on that finger, my girls sister wears one as a necklace).
That ones actually ceramic.
Haha, ok. Not to sound like a dick either, but that is retarded. I completely think this is forever, and while I realize most people think this, a sure fire way to ruin it would be to treat her like a fucking dog, and reward her with nice things every so many years of being loyal. Please. o_O And in regards to blowing all my money on the ring because only that means true love, well, that's not what I'm doing. She's told me herself that she'd rather me spend less on the ring and put more towards the house down-payment we're saving up for. So... thanks but no thanks.
p.s. Oh yeah. Fuck you for your condescending tone in that p.s.
Improvolone:
Actually, I hadn't really put any thought into my own band, as the engagement will probably be for around a year (we've sort of been wedding planning off and on :oops:), and I figured that would be enough time to sort it out. I guess there is no harm in looking though. I'm more of a silver man in terms of jewelry (I don't look good in gold), but that picture you posted is really cool. I'll definitely have to look more into man bands.
Except jewelry usually retains its value, if not, appreciates value over time. Especially if it is well a well crafted piece.
Seriously...go buy 10 ounces of silver, and see how your investment looks come July.
Did you read a post that I completely missed? Because right now you sound bat shit insane (which I suppose is par for someone working in divorce court).
Solitaire just refers to the number of diamonds - a diamond solitaire ring would be a single diamond attached to a ring as opposed to, for example, an Eternity (a series of small diamonds) or Cluster (a cluster arrangement of diamonds, usually of different sizes).
And there are also different settings to choose from, such as Claw, Flush, Parve etc. which indicated how the stones are attached to the ring.
http://jewelry.about.com/od/choosesetting/Engagement_Ring_Settings.htm
Shopping For A Ring:
My (then) girlfriend and I would occasionally walk in to jewelry stores at the mall and look at rings for her. She got to pick out styles that she liked and I could make mental notes about what she wanted. We never settled on any one ring or anything like that (i.e. she didn't say "I want that ring.") but knowing the styles she liked helped me pick a ring that I knew she would love.
I didn't know all of the 3 Cs stuff. I'm not going to say it's crap or BS, because I'm sure all of it makes sense to someone, but I didn't bother to learn it when I was picking a ring. I looked at a lot of rings and basically just went with what I thought looked good. I had decided early on that I wanted to get an engagement ring with wedding band combo so that we wouldn't have to worry about making the set match. You don't have to do it this way but it makes things much easier.
I visited several stores and wound up buying the ring from Zales on the recommendation of my mom who has purchased jewelry from that store in the past. They offered me 10% off of the cost of the ring for getting a store credit card and another 10% off of that just because (I could have paid for the whole ring, in cash, up front, but because of the discounts, I paid half up front and saved the other half for the second payment a month later.). I don't recommend buying a ring online since you can't see it up close before you buy it.
Also, everyone you know will have a jeweler that "you absolutely have to go to." Be prepared for this. Also, don't be ashamed or embarrassed for buying a ring at a major retailer than a mom & pop local store.
Asking the Parents:
I didn't bother to talk to her parents first. I think it's an old tradition that doesn't really need to be honored any more, but your mileage may vary.
Anyways, this isn't the place to have this discussion.
Going from experience: want to be on your father-in-law's good side forever? Ask him for permission, even if it's just a stupid formality to you.