A few nights ago I would randomly shoot rockets at chokepoints like I always do when I'm walking from the spawn to the front lines, and I killed Panda, who was cloaked, at least 3 times with crit rockets. It was so satisfying to read his messages of despair. But he did deserve it for being a spy.
Seriously, if a spy is around, fuck my sguns and dispensers. Better to be alive and have a replacement up in 20 seconds than dead for that time. Spies die first, then I'll salvage what I can that was sapped after.
I remember playing Heavy and going for that achievement where you spend 200k of bullets in one continuous fire and just sat next to a dispenser on dustbowl 1 second cap round the corner and got about 9 spies just from the crossfire.
The_Scarab on
0
Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
If you crouch in front of a heavy's normal arc of fire you're likely to never have a bullet touch you.
Seriously, if a spy is around, fuck my sguns and dispensers. Better to be alive and have a replacement up in 20 seconds than dead for that time. Spies die first, then I'll salvage what I can that was sapped after..
I think the engy update should allow an engy to have multiple level 1 sentries.
Imagine the awesomeness of having three level 1 sentries tucked away in different parts of the map.
What, the bat is awesome. killing buildings with melee takes forever because crits don't effect them
The bat is ok if they don't know your there/bother looking around when you start hitting them from behind, but the combination of having less life than everyone else, and doing less damage than everyone elses melee is a pretty bad combination. The speed boost really means little as a scout, since you don't want to stop moving/stay in the same area very long to take advantage of it.
There are just too many classes that can turn and pointblank one shot or take out their melee and rape you to make it worthwhile.
Fuck, I *knew* that name sounded familiar when I was looking at that last night, but couldn't put my finger on why.
Will look at it later today, and probably put it up.
For what it is worth, my other efforts haven't been as serious as this one. I took a lot of time and effort to make this as smooth and "valve-like" as possible. I just know you guys like customs and I hope you enjoy swift.
Seriously, if a spy is around, fuck my sguns and dispensers. Better to be alive and have a replacement up in 20 seconds than dead for that time. Spies die first, then I'll salvage what I can that was sapped after..
I think the engy update should allow an engy to have multiple level 1 sentries.
Imagine the awesomeness of having three level 1 sentries tucked away in different parts of the map.
Fuck you.
Die in a fire.
Ect ect.
They would have to nerf sentries for that, even a level 1 sentry is way too much area denial for some classes to make each engineer getting 3 to be balanced.
Scout pistol > sentry, and they're plenty powerful in every other situation.
err maybe the level 1 sentry, if there is a corner you can hide behind, and the engineer isn't there, and no one else is there to shoot at you. You also only have like 3 clips of ammo, which is gone way too fast.
Also they need to make melee scout worthwhile, I was trying to destroy a dispenser with my bat last night, and Belo Legume kept whacking it with his wrench to heal it. This went on for like 30seconds until a sniper head shotted me.
I mean I know the bat sucks, but I keep trying to make use of it, and it keeps failing me horribly.
Please tell me you're joking, a level 1 sentry poses no threat unless you run in an area blind and take too long to react to the beeping. And if there's 3 of them the engie can't be babysitting all of them. And if he built them all together, why not just build a normal sentry to level 3.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Seriously, if a spy is around, fuck my sguns and dispensers. Better to be alive and have a replacement up in 20 seconds than dead for that time. Spies die first, then I'll salvage what I can that was sapped after..
I think the engy update should allow an engy to have multiple level 1 sentries.
Imagine the awesomeness of having three level 1 sentries tucked away in different parts of the map.
Fuck you.
Die in a fire.
Ect ect.
They would have to nerf sentries for that, even a level 1 sentry is way too much area denial for some classes to make each engineer getting 3 to be balanced.
I'd be fine with toning down the damage a level 1 does if it meant I got to litter the map with them.
If you crouch in front of a heavy's normal arc of fire you're likely to never have a bullet touch you.
You mean as a spy?
Yeah you have no chance. Because I waggle my cursor in a wide arc all over the field of view.
Even more effective with Sacha, cause once you tag em and they appear you home in right to em and they are fucked.
Most heavies don't do that since they're aiming at the upper center of mass of multiple targets, all of whose centers would be above your head if you were crouching. If some idiot's on a dispenser, you have to try to jump on his head.
If you crouch in front of a heavy's normal arc of fire you're likely to never have a bullet touch you.
You mean as a spy?
Yeah you have no chance. Because I waggle my cursor in a wide arc all over the field of view.
Even more effective with Sacha, cause once you tag em and they appear you home in right to em and they are fucked.
Most heavies don't do that since they're aiming at the upper center of mass of multiple targets, all of whose centers would be above your head if you were crouching. If some idiot's on a dispenser, you have to try to jump on his head.
I shoot all over the place, because it looks better when the entire wall is covered in bullet decals.
Yeah, it worked because they weren't paying attention, which is what dropping level 1 sentries in odd places is all about.
My sentry wasn't in the corner, it wasn't by the wall facing in, and it wasn't by the rock. It was also level 1 so pretty small. People will run in, check the usual two sentry spots and see nothing and assume there is no sentry. Any one of those guys could have turned around and destroyed it in 2 seconds.
It was also blus final push before the end of the round, they were in too much of a hurry to rush on the point and got chipped away.
T1 sentries scattered around work in the same way as demos putting stickies around spawn doors and killing loads of people. In the middle of a game of, say, granary, most people who spawn back at point 2 (when the fighting is around point 4) don't expect there to be any danger right out of the gate. So they run out without checking and die. If you're always cautious the level 1 sentry is no threat.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Please tell me you're joking, a level 1 sentry poses no threat unless you run in an area blind and take too long to react to the beeping. And if there's 3 of them the engie can't be babysitting all of them. And if he built them all together, why not just build a normal sentry to level 3.
You do know not all classes have long range weapons that can 1/2 shot a level 1 sentry right? Not to mention what your trajectory will be doing if your getting hit by 3 sentries at once?
And building 3 sentries instead of 1 level 3 sentry in a small area, has the advantage of them being able to hit 3 different targets at once, or one guy from 3 different directions.
Please tell me you're joking, a level 1 sentry poses no threat unless you run in an area blind and take too long to react to the beeping. And if there's 3 of them the engie can't be babysitting all of them. And if he built them all together, why not just build a normal sentry to level 3.
Three sentries.
Triangulation.
Most areas in the maps are designed with a few sentries in mind, in terms of cover and angles. If each engineer had 3 sentries that triples the amount of sguns on a map.
I can imagine putting 9 of the things in the middle of the bridge on the last cap of Dustbowl and nothing being able to assault it. The knockback would stop even ubered enemies.
What I think the engineer update will see is a wrench that repairs/builds faster but cant crit, a link gun that replenishes ammo similar to the medigun healing that you equip instead of the shotgun and a shield wall that replaces sentry guns in the build menu. portable cover. See through but impervious to bullet damage, both directions other than for the base which will be similar in size to the teleporters.
Please tell me you're joking, a level 1 sentry poses no threat unless you run in an area blind and take too long to react to the beeping. And if there's 3 of them the engie can't be babysitting all of them. And if he built them all together, why not just build a normal sentry to level 3.
You do know not all classes have long range weapons that can 1/2 shot a level 1 sentry right? Not to mention what your trajectory will be doing if your getting hit by 3 sentries at once?
And building 3 sentries instead of 1 level 3 sentry in a small area, has the advantage of them being able to hit 3 different targets at once, or one guy from 3 different directions.
Level 3 sentries kill people in like 2 seconds though, level 1 about 10 seconds? They also produce a ton of knockback, and the level 1 sentries will die really fast.
The only class without a long range weapon to destroy a sentry is...pyro? Lets see...rockets, pipes, sniper rifle, pistol, minigun, revolver..I guess medic, although if you arc the needles up they go pretty far.
And, you know, pyros have been known to turn a corner into a T3 sentry and destroy it with the flamethrower before they die. Plus, this is team fortress. As mostly a demo/engineer player, I'd be most welcoming of the extra points I will rack up piping down baby sentries everywhere.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Please tell me you're joking, a level 1 sentry poses no threat unless you run in an area blind and take too long to react to the beeping. And if there's 3 of them the engie can't be babysitting all of them. And if he built them all together, why not just build a normal sentry to level 3.
You do know not all classes have long range weapons that can 1/2 shot a level 1 sentry right? Not to mention what your trajectory will be doing if your getting hit by 3 sentries at once?
And building 3 sentries instead of 1 level 3 sentry in a small area, has the advantage of them being able to hit 3 different targets at once, or one guy from 3 different directions.
Level 3 sentries kill people in like 2 seconds though, level 1 about 10 seconds? They also produce a ton of knockback, and the level 1 sentries will die really fast.
The only class without a long range weapon to destroy a sentry is...pyro? Lets see...rockets, pipes, sniper rifle, pistol, minigun, revolver..I guess medic, although if you arc the needles up they go pretty far.
And, you know, pyros have been known to turn a corner into a T3 sentry and destroy it with the flamethrower before they die. Plus, this is team fortress. As mostly a demo/engineer player, I'd be most welcoming of the extra points I will rack up piping down baby sentries everywhere.
pistol only works with cover, and no one else around, and the engineer not there. You would also now need an angle on the level 1 sentry where the other 2 can't see you.
How about something where the total damage you can do is equal to 100% of a single level 1 sentry, and this damage is divided up by the number of sentries the engineer has up?
And maybe eliminate the pushback, which is by far the most annoying trait of the sentries.
xzzy on
0
Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Id be ok with that. The pushback is usually what ends up killing me, as I get shoved into a corner.
Would have to test it still though, may need to cap the total number of sentries a team can have. So you don't have a team with 5 engineers, with 3 sentries each on the final point.
No I'd like to see swapping the sentry for something non offensive and more suited to when we're on attack.
Because Sguns on offense are not their best role. Other than holding a forward teleportation base they see little action and just feed enemy spies targets. Because you cant move them, and you cant place them on the objective because the enemy has it.
Swap em out for something more suited to front lines. Radar perhaps? Makes enemies show up through walls like in Left 4 Dead.
I'm just thinking, when you pick engineer you're really saying 'Im going to build a sentry gun'. I'd like to see them have more utility. Looking back at anytime when I'm on offense on dustbowl or granary or any map like that i get more points from teleportations than direct Sgun kills.
Engineers should be more logistical. Aid player movement and replenish ammo. not some area of denial meatflag that just sits tinkering on a gun in the corner waiting for the action.
No I'd like to see swapping the sentry for something non offensive and more suited to when we're on attack.
Because Sguns on offense are not their best role. Other than holding a forward teleportation base they see little action and just feed enemy spies targets. Because you cant move them, and you cant place them on the objective because the enemy has it.
Swap em out for something more suited to front lines. Radar perhaps? Makes enemies show up through walls like in Left 4 Dead.
I'm just thinking, when you pick engineer you're really saying 'Im going to build a sentry gun'. I'd like to see them have more utility. Looking back at anytime when I'm on offense on dustbowl or granary or any map like that i get more points from teleportations than direct Sgun kills.
Engineers should be more logistical. Aid player movement and replenish ammo. not some area of denial meatflag that just sits tinkering on a gun in the corner waiting for the action.
It would be nice if they could move the sentry gun like once or twice. That might help negate that a bit.
I'd wish they would tone down the power of the sentries but make them more replaceable. Make it so huddling behind a level 3 and whacking it with a wrench isn't always the most effective use of your firepower and make it so that killing the engineer is more important than killing the sentry. As it stands, an engineer is basically dedicated to keeping up his sentry and you're better of switching classes to defend against a push once it's destroyed.
Rakai on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]XBL: Rakayn | PS3: Rakayn | Steam ID
No I'd like to see swapping the sentry for something non offensive and more suited to when we're on attack.
I'm pretty sure that's what demomen are supposed to be.
But I mean on any map engineers are the only class left out of front line attacks. Even medics who are considered the ultimate support class can now go god saw and be the most potent offensive team.
Its not that I feel left out, its that being a good engineer is more boring than being a bad one. You have less to do because you're so good at protecting your shit.
That seems contrary to the design of every other class.
I was thinking, why not give engineers an emp grenade or something. that will function in the same way as a spy sapper but in an area of effect. temporarily subduing enemy defenses.
gives them more offensive potency and fits in with the utllity nature of the class.
I mean clearly this would be grossly imbalanced and im only thinking outloud here.
but something, anything to make playing engineer more fun than 'tink, tink, tink, tink'
Cause I'm a decent engineer, not in the same way enders is a decent heavy or anything but competent with my class of choice.
and engineer is boring most of the time. but the satisfaction you get when teams seek you out to help themselves, be it with teleportation and dispensers or the safety of sgun cover, that makes it worthwhile.
like how heavies say engineer is credit to team. well on a lot of maps they are only because of teleporters.
sguns are not area denial, they are area delay. every class can take one out on their own under reasonable circumstances, and that means you have to double or triple up to make them effective.
engineers needs a bit of a mix up I think, focussed more on the logistics rather than the base building.
why not a permanently on teleporter, like a portal/gateway thing. or a bubble shield type device you build instead of a dispenser.
I just look at the other classes with a bit of envy sometimes, even when topping leaderboards. because when I get 50 points ive sat in a corner teleporting people and getting the odd sgun kill. when a spy gets 50 points he has wrecked their shit over and over. when a heavy gets it he has gunned down a billion people.
engineer is a docile class, and even good ones are often found sitting infront of a dispenser/sgun combo automatically whacking away. it doesnt, to me at least, honour the ideals of the class from TFC.
The_Scarab on
0
MrMonroepassed outon the floor nowRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
Scout update replaces pistol with a smoke grenade.
No I'd like to see swapping the sentry for something non offensive and more suited to when we're on attack.
I'm pretty sure that's what demomen are supposed to be.
But I mean on any map engineers are the only class left out of front line attacks. Even medics who are considered the ultimate support class can now go god saw and be the most potent offensive team.
Its not that I feel left out, its that being a good engineer is more boring than being a bad one. You have less to do because you're so good at protecting your shit.
That seems contrary to the design of every other class.
I was thinking, why not give engineers an emp grenade or something. that will function in the same way as a spy sapper but in an area of effect. temporarily subduing enemy defenses.
gives them more offensive potency and fits in with the utllity nature of the class.
I mean clearly this would be grossly imbalanced and im only thinking outloud here.
but something, anything to make playing engineer more fun than 'tink, tink, tink, tink'
Cause I'm a decent engineer, not in the same way enders is a decent heavy or anything but competent with my class of choice.
and engineer is boring most of the time. but the satisfaction you get when teams seek you out to help themselves, be it with teleportation and dispensers or the safety of sgun cover, that makes it worthwhile.
like how heavies say engineer is credit to team. well on a lot of maps they are only because of teleporters.
sguns are not area denial, they are area delay. every class can take one out on their own under reasonable circumstances, and that means you have to double or triple up to make them effective.
engineers needs a bit of a mix up I think, focussed more on the logistics rather than the base building.
why not a permanently on teleporter, like a portal/gateway thing. or a bubble shield type device you build instead of a dispenser.
I just look at the other classes with a bit of envy sometimes, even when topping leaderboards. because when I get 50 points ive sat in a corner teleporting people and getting the odd sgun kill. when a spy gets 50 points he has wrecked their shit over and over. when a heavy gets it he has gunned down a billion people.
engineer is a docile class, and even good ones are often found sitting infront of a dispenser/sgun combo automatically whacking away. it doesnt, to me at least, honour the ideals of the class from TFC.
Ok next time I write a post that long I'll not break and you can then whine about tl:dr or some bullshit. Seriously, are you complaining about v-scroll or something?
Posts
I like raping people like you.
Fuck, I *knew* that name sounded familiar when I was looking at that last night, but couldn't put my finger on why.
Will look at it later today, and probably put it up.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I remember playing Heavy and going for that achievement where you spend 200k of bullets in one continuous fire and just sat next to a dispenser on dustbowl 1 second cap round the corner and got about 9 spies just from the crossfire.
toastmold is one of them
I think the engy update should allow an engy to have multiple level 1 sentries.
Imagine the awesomeness of having three level 1 sentries tucked away in different parts of the map.
You mean as a spy?
Yeah you have no chance. Because I waggle my cursor in a wide arc all over the field of view.
Even more effective with Sacha, cause once you tag em and they appear you home in right to em and they are fucked.
The bat is ok if they don't know your there/bother looking around when you start hitting them from behind, but the combination of having less life than everyone else, and doing less damage than everyone elses melee is a pretty bad combination. The speed boost really means little as a scout, since you don't want to stop moving/stay in the same area very long to take advantage of it.
There are just too many classes that can turn and pointblank one shot or take out their melee and rape you to make it worthwhile.
Fuck you.
Die in a fire.
Ect ect.
Really? It's like our most famous dish, it's called the Portuguese stew (or Cozido à Portuguesa)
Tu sei italiano?
Fixed for truth.
I'd be fine with toning down the damage a level 1 does if it meant I got to litter the map with them.
I'm all about quantity, not quality.
truth be told, a level 1 sentry can be very god damn annoying when used be offensive engineers.
Most heavies don't do that since they're aiming at the upper center of mass of multiple targets, all of whose centers would be above your head if you were crouching. If some idiot's on a dispenser, you have to try to jump on his head.
I shoot all over the place, because it looks better when the entire wall is covered in bullet decals.
My sentry wasn't in the corner, it wasn't by the wall facing in, and it wasn't by the rock. It was also level 1 so pretty small. People will run in, check the usual two sentry spots and see nothing and assume there is no sentry. Any one of those guys could have turned around and destroyed it in 2 seconds.
It was also blus final push before the end of the round, they were in too much of a hurry to rush on the point and got chipped away.
T1 sentries scattered around work in the same way as demos putting stickies around spawn doors and killing loads of people. In the middle of a game of, say, granary, most people who spawn back at point 2 (when the fighting is around point 4) don't expect there to be any danger right out of the gate. So they run out without checking and die. If you're always cautious the level 1 sentry is no threat.
You do know not all classes have long range weapons that can 1/2 shot a level 1 sentry right? Not to mention what your trajectory will be doing if your getting hit by 3 sentries at once?
And building 3 sentries instead of 1 level 3 sentry in a small area, has the advantage of them being able to hit 3 different targets at once, or one guy from 3 different directions.
Three sentries.
Triangulation.
Most areas in the maps are designed with a few sentries in mind, in terms of cover and angles. If each engineer had 3 sentries that triples the amount of sguns on a map.
I can imagine putting 9 of the things in the middle of the bridge on the last cap of Dustbowl and nothing being able to assault it. The knockback would stop even ubered enemies.
What I think the engineer update will see is a wrench that repairs/builds faster but cant crit, a link gun that replenishes ammo similar to the medigun healing that you equip instead of the shotgun and a shield wall that replaces sentry guns in the build menu. portable cover. See through but impervious to bullet damage, both directions other than for the base which will be similar in size to the teleporters.
Level 3 sentries kill people in like 2 seconds though, level 1 about 10 seconds? They also produce a ton of knockback, and the level 1 sentries will die really fast.
The only class without a long range weapon to destroy a sentry is...pyro? Lets see...rockets, pipes, sniper rifle, pistol, minigun, revolver..I guess medic, although if you arc the needles up they go pretty far.
And, you know, pyros have been known to turn a corner into a T3 sentry and destroy it with the flamethrower before they die. Plus, this is team fortress. As mostly a demo/engineer player, I'd be most welcoming of the extra points I will rack up piping down baby sentries everywhere.
pistol only works with cover, and no one else around, and the engineer not there. You would also now need an angle on the level 1 sentry where the other 2 can't see you.
And maybe eliminate the pushback, which is by far the most annoying trait of the sentries.
Would have to test it still though, may need to cap the total number of sentries a team can have. So you don't have a team with 5 engineers, with 3 sentries each on the final point.
Because Sguns on offense are not their best role. Other than holding a forward teleportation base they see little action and just feed enemy spies targets. Because you cant move them, and you cant place them on the objective because the enemy has it.
Swap em out for something more suited to front lines. Radar perhaps? Makes enemies show up through walls like in Left 4 Dead.
I'm just thinking, when you pick engineer you're really saying 'Im going to build a sentry gun'. I'd like to see them have more utility. Looking back at anytime when I'm on offense on dustbowl or granary or any map like that i get more points from teleportations than direct Sgun kills.
Engineers should be more logistical. Aid player movement and replenish ammo. not some area of denial meatflag that just sits tinkering on a gun in the corner waiting for the action.
but really its not that hard to break through. even when 9 out of 12 people are playing engi on each team
I'm pretty sure that's what demomen are supposed to be.
It would be nice if they could move the sentry gun like once or twice. That might help negate that a bit.
So it'd be like C3-P0 on Chewbacca's back? Engineer strapped on, bitching constantly?
It only works on scouts.
But I mean on any map engineers are the only class left out of front line attacks. Even medics who are considered the ultimate support class can now go god saw and be the most potent offensive team.
Its not that I feel left out, its that being a good engineer is more boring than being a bad one. You have less to do because you're so good at protecting your shit.
That seems contrary to the design of every other class.
I was thinking, why not give engineers an emp grenade or something. that will function in the same way as a spy sapper but in an area of effect. temporarily subduing enemy defenses.
gives them more offensive potency and fits in with the utllity nature of the class.
I mean clearly this would be grossly imbalanced and im only thinking outloud here.
but something, anything to make playing engineer more fun than 'tink, tink, tink, tink'
Cause I'm a decent engineer, not in the same way enders is a decent heavy or anything but competent with my class of choice.
and engineer is boring most of the time. but the satisfaction you get when teams seek you out to help themselves, be it with teleportation and dispensers or the safety of sgun cover, that makes it worthwhile.
like how heavies say engineer is credit to team. well on a lot of maps they are only because of teleporters.
sguns are not area denial, they are area delay. every class can take one out on their own under reasonable circumstances, and that means you have to double or triple up to make them effective.
engineers needs a bit of a mix up I think, focussed more on the logistics rather than the base building.
why not a permanently on teleporter, like a portal/gateway thing. or a bubble shield type device you build instead of a dispenser.
I just look at the other classes with a bit of envy sometimes, even when topping leaderboards. because when I get 50 points ive sat in a corner teleporting people and getting the odd sgun kill. when a spy gets 50 points he has wrecked their shit over and over. when a heavy gets it he has gunned down a billion people.
engineer is a docile class, and even good ones are often found sitting infront of a dispenser/sgun combo automatically whacking away. it doesnt, to me at least, honour the ideals of the class from TFC.
How terrible would that be?
You
don't
need
a
line
break
between
everything
you
type.
I still stand by my idea that scouts need jetpacks.
Not getting insta gibbed by soldiers was awesome.
Also my first post through the steam browser, it's kinda laggy.