At this stage I am of the opinion that we may be better off killing two people and reducing the number of unknowns. It gives more information that way... if they both die, anyway. Not sure how Medo's going to deal with ties this game, but we're about to find out for sure. (Which is also another good thing to get out of the way early, when it isn't as crucial.)
yeah but you also chance killing off more vanillas or potential specials . We have 40 people in the game and two sets of baddies.
At this stage I am of the opinion that we may be better off killing two people and reducing the number of unknowns. It gives more information that way... if they both die, anyway. Not sure how Medo's going to deal with ties this game, but we're about to find out for sure. (Which is also another good thing to get out of the way early, when it isn't as crucial.)
True. Though if Sabs isn't bullshitting well...nice going there with the last minute wait Sabs :P
Yeah, well, he knew exactly the sort of attention his avatar would bring and could have switched out, even saying he was bowing to the popular will or something to make it less conspicuos. All in all, I just don't believe him.
We should find out soon(ish) though, which I argue is a good thing. Much better knowing rather than finding out on Night 6 when it's a bigger deal and could turn the game.
At this stage I am of the opinion that we may be better off killing two people and reducing the number of unknowns. It gives more information that way... if they both die, anyway. Not sure how Medo's going to deal with ties this game, but we're about to find out for sure. (Which is also another good thing to get out of the way early, when it isn't as crucial.)
yeah but you also chance killing off more vanillas or potential specials . We have 40 people in the game and two sets of baddies.
Also why don't you like this avatar stuff
sandy vagina maybe
It's annoying. It's confusing and absolutely unnecessary.
Why does my not liking the avatar stuff bother you?
We should find out soon(ish) though, which I argue is a good thing. Much better knowing rather than finding out on Night 6 when it's a bigger deal and could turn the game.
This image shows the intersection of a valley with the floor of a large impact crater. The valley appears to have transported sediment that was deposited on the crater floor when the flow slowed. As the eastern side of the lobate deposit appears to have been sheared off, it is possible that continuing flow from the valley eroded into its own deposits.
***
“Quiet please, I’m trying to count,†Nadia shouted.
The colonists had gathered in a tight group near the small pond that formed the centerpiece of the city park, and many conversed back and forth at high volume, their voices laced with fear and tension.
“Everyone, can we please settle down?†John waved his hands over his heads to get attention. “Have we gotten everyone’s vote?†He had done his best to lead the group toward the person he thought most suspicious, but he was still nervous about the results.
“Not warban’s!†a distraught colonist cried out. “Like I already told you, I found him in his bed this morning…he was dead…suffocated…†The colonist choked backed a sob and looked down at the ground as silence settled over the group.
“Maya’s not here,†Sax said. “And Frank went to find her…â€
Nadia slapped down the last of the pieces of paper she had been counting.
“Well, I guess we’ve reached a decision.â€
A fractured cry of anguish cut her off. The crowd turned, parting, to reveal Frank walking across the park, visiblehowl’s limp form draped across his arms. He laid her gently on the grass. The group of colonists drew together, packing in close to view the dead body of one of the most famous people on Mars.
“Maya…†Michel whispered.
“You bastard,†Frank said, focusing his blank stare on John. “You let her go off by herself. YOU LET HER GO OFF BY HERSELF.â€
John opened his mouth to reply but was silenced by the beep of his wristcom.
“John? Are you there? It’s Phyllis.â€
John felt the heat of Frank’s gaze on his face as he looked down at his wrist. His voice cracked as he forced out, “What do you want?â€
“Oh, I see you know. I’m so very sorry John, but we had no other choice-â€
“YOU BITCH!†Frank screamed, lunging for John’s wrist. He pulled himself away before Frank could get to it, then turned it off.
Suddenly a commotion broke out in the back of the crowd. A lump in his throat, John pushed his way through as someone screamed.
Dac Vin lay face down on the grass, a red stone knife buried between his shoulders.
Colonists began backing away, breaking off into small groups, when Arkady began to laugh. Quietly at first, then louder until he was almost barking.
At his side, Nadia held up the piece of paper revealing the person who had received the most votes, by a margin of two. It read, “Dac Vin.â€
We should find out soon(ish) though, which I argue is a good thing. Much better knowing rather than finding out on Night 6 when it's a bigger deal and could turn the game.
Or you could. . . ask?
I have found that, in the past, when it's not in the rules/rundown in the OP, the GM refuses to answer.
We could have asked, sure... but this was just as easy, and I'm curious about both of the contenders and have no reason to believe either one to be not deserving of elimination. It's Day 1.
[Edit]
Also, this way we can have some sort of idea if perhaps there are vote manipulators our there or mechanics for doing so.
LaOs on
0
Options
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
warbanWho the Hoof do you think we are?Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
OOOOOooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
O well Time to change my avatar back. More cats must join the plight, Take up my Torch of Frog Cat fire! Avenge me!
OOOOOooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I have found that, in the past, when it's not in the rules/rundown in the OP, the GM refuses to answer.
We could have asked, sure... but this was just as easy, and I'm curious about both of the contenders and have no reason to believe either one to be not deserving of elimination. It's Day 1.
[Edit]
Also, this way we can have some sort of idea if perhaps there are vote manipulators our there or mechanics for doing so.
Well it didn't work,unfortunately. What happens in the case of a tie?
At this stage I am of the opinion that we may be better off killing two people and reducing the number of unknowns. It gives more information that way... if they both die, anyway. Not sure how Medo's going to deal with ties this game, but we're about to find out for sure. (Which is also another good thing to get out of the way early, when it isn't as crucial.)
yeah but you also chance killing off more vanillas or potential specials . We have 40 people in the game and two sets of baddies.
Also why don't you like this avatar stuff
sandy vagina maybe
It's annoying. It's confusing and absolutely unnecessary.
Why does my not liking the avatar stuff bother you?
Sandy vagina maybe?
Well I mean only me and Hakkekage talked about it before into changing into frog kitty, not my fault if other people follow and copy us.
I have found that, in the past, when it's not in the rules/rundown in the OP, the GM refuses to answer.
We could have asked, sure... but this was just as easy, and I'm curious about both of the contenders and have no reason to believe either one to be not deserving of elimination. It's Day 1.
[Edit]
Also, this way we can have some sort of idea if perhaps there are vote manipulators our there or mechanics for doing so.
Well it didn't work,unfortunately. What happens in the case of a tie?
I'm half tempted to change my vote again to Gosling, because he's confusing the hell out of me. Plus, I don't trust him.... hmmmm.
Oh you silly, silly people. He's just messing around. He was equating the kitty heads to the cheese heads of the packers, and then somehow that got connected with moving the kitty heads to France, which then took to someone saying something about moving the Packers to France... and here we are.
This is a Phalla... pay attention, people!
What are you? Like a crocodile or somthing?
What? What is this? Did lonelyahava put you up to this?
Seriously?
Uh. No?
... I really don't know what the picture is. A frog or a crocodile. Some kind of amphibian or lizard.
JebusUD on
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
I'm half tempted to change my vote again to Gosling, because he's confusing the hell out of me. Plus, I don't trust him.... hmmmm.
Oh you silly, silly people. He's just messing around. He was equating the kitty heads to the cheese heads of the packers, and then somehow that got connected with moving the kitty heads to France, which then took to someone saying something about moving the Packers to France... and here we are.
This is a Phalla... pay attention, people!
What are you? Like a crocodile or somthing?
What? What is this? Did lonelyahava put you up to this?
Seriously?
Uh. No?
... I really don't know what the picture is. A frog or a crocodile. Some kind of amphibian or lizard.
Oh, she always tried to claim I was a crocodile.
It's the Lochness Monster. That's always been my avatar, except I used to have a crappy image from a Google search. Tripwire in the AC made cards of the AC [Chat] regulars back in the day with their avatars and he did mine for me too, which is where my image is from... obviously cropped closer around the face.
I have found that, in the past, when it's not in the rules/rundown in the OP, the GM refuses to answer.
We could have asked, sure... but this was just as easy, and I'm curious about both of the contenders and have no reason to believe either one to be not deserving of elimination. It's Day 1.
[Edit]
Also, this way we can have some sort of idea if perhaps there are vote manipulators our there or mechanics for doing so.
Well it didn't work,unfortunately. What happens in the case of a tie?
I have found that, in the past, when it's not in the rules/rundown in the OP, the GM refuses to answer.
We could have asked, sure... but this was just as easy, and I'm curious about both of the contenders and have no reason to believe either one to be not deserving of elimination. It's Day 1.
[Edit]
Also, this way we can have some sort of idea if perhaps there are vote manipulators our there or mechanics for doing so.
Well it didn't work,unfortunately. What happens in the case of a tie?
I have found that, in the past, when it's not in the rules/rundown in the OP, the GM refuses to answer.
We could have asked, sure... but this was just as easy, and I'm curious about both of the contenders and have no reason to believe either one to be not deserving of elimination. It's Day 1.
[Edit]
Also, this way we can have some sort of idea if perhaps there are vote manipulators our there or mechanics for doing so.
Well it didn't work,unfortunately. What happens in the case of a tie?
What didn't work, exactly?
We found out that Dac Vin was just a Colonist, which is unfortunate, but at least it's something we know. We also know who voted for him and can see who they were trying to save and who they moved their votes from in order to vote for him. It's Day 1, yeah, but it can be an easy place to hide.
We found out, possibly, that there are vote manipulation abilities out there. I would imagine that the RNG to break the tie would simply mean the eliminated player wins the vote by 1. Dac Vin won by 2 votes, indicating that something else may have been going on.
So, that also lets us know that somone may have saved Sabs... and that Sabs may have been worth saving to someone? It's interesting, at the very least.
So again, what didn't work?
(We also got to find out what happens in case of a tie.)
I have found that, in the past, when it's not in the rules/rundown in the OP, the GM refuses to answer.
We could have asked, sure... but this was just as easy, and I'm curious about both of the contenders and have no reason to believe either one to be not deserving of elimination. It's Day 1.
[Edit]
Also, this way we can have some sort of idea if perhaps there are vote manipulators our there or mechanics for doing so.
Well it didn't work,unfortunately. What happens in the case of a tie?
Ties will be broken randomly.
Was the tie broken randomly tonight?
Man I even put it in the narration for you. Nope.
I saw that in the narration. I wanted to make you spell it out for other people who may have missed it so that the whole thing can't be used as ammunition against me later in arguments when I start talking about how someone saved Sabs using a manipulation ability. Either they subtracted votes from Sabs and could be anyone, or their vote counted for more than one and they voted for Dac Vin.
This way, with you clearly spelling it out, no one can claim I have any special insider knowledge and use it as fuel to start a wasted bandwaggon on me.
So again, what didn't work? (We also got to find out what happens in case of a tie.)
That's what didn't work by your little stunt (we had to ask afterwards, you were part of this conversation. . . ). Cool idea you had, but there appears to definitely be some vote manip going on behind the scenes (which I guess we also found out due to your move, so it was beneficial).
Judging from the narration, I would say that Dav Vin was targeted by the Reds, for whatever reason, and that they got their kill and the vote just disappeared. That's why he shows up in the narration with RED STONE KNIFE in his back, before the vote leader is revealed.
So again, what didn't work? (We also got to find out what happens in case of a tie.)
That's what didn't work by your little stunt (we had to ask afterwards, you were part of this conversation. . . ). Cool idea you had, but there appears to definitely be some vote manip going on behind the scenes (which I guess we also found out due to your move, so it was beneficial).
I blame Diebold.
JebusUD on
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
As one not familiar with the source material, what is it likely that Maya represented, role-wise?
It's a toughie. She's a really political person in the books, involved in a number of relationships and leadership positions. I suppose you could stretch it to saying that perhaps she might be a guardian but that's doubtful. Perhaps some vote manipulation herself? It'd be the closest to someone whose book character has hands in many pies.
So again, what didn't work? (We also got to find out what happens in case of a tie.)
That's what didn't work by your little stunt (we had to ask afterwards, you were part of this conversation. . . ). Cool idea you had, but there appears to definitely be some vote manip going on behind the scenes (which I guess we also found out due to your move, so it was beneficial).
Oh. Well, that wasn't even my main goal, but I didn't talk about it until after. I wanted to find out about vote manipulating abilities, if there were any in play. It seemed a ripe opportunity to learn.
Looking at it... and going with the flavour from the Narration... warban and visiblehowl's votes both probably did not count. So, since visiblehowl voted for Dac Vin, that actually means that Sabs won the vanilla vote 7 to 6.
But, Dac Vin ended up winning the final vote by 2 votes. This means there was at least three votes' worth of manipulation going on. So, somone or some people who voted for Dac Vin had their votes count as more or someone or some people were able to subtract votes from Sabs... or it was a combination of the two.
There have been, in the past, roles where your vote for someone actually counts as a negative vote for them. I could also see an ability where someone simply targets a player and can subtract votes from that player. There is also the fairly basic multiplication of a single vote for someone, usually having it count as 2 or 3 instead of 1.
Judging from the narration, I would say that Dav Vin was targeted by the Reds, for whatever reason, and that they got their kill and the vote just disappeared. That's why he shows up in the narration with RED STONE KNIFE in his back, before the vote leader is revealed.
Are the Reds the same as the TransNats? Seems to me we're fighting TransNats and Saboteurs... or am I confused?
LaOs on
0
Options
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
Judging from the narration, I would say that Dav Vin was targeted by the Reds, for whatever reason, and that they got their kill and the vote just disappeared. That's why he shows up in the narration with RED STONE KNIFE in his back, before the vote leader is revealed.
Are the Reds the same as the TransNats? Seems to me we're fighting TransNats and Saboteurs... or am I confused?
Reds and TransNats are two separate groups in the novels.
Judging from the narration, I would say that Dav Vin was targeted by the Reds, for whatever reason, and that they got their kill and the vote just disappeared. That's why he shows up in the narration with RED STONE KNIFE in his back, before the vote leader is revealed.
Are the Reds the same as the TransNats? Seems to me we're fighting TransNats and Saboteurs... or am I confused?
Reds and TransNats are two separate groups in the novels.
Would the Reds be the name for the Saboteurs, then?
Judging from the narration, I would say that Dav Vin was targeted by the Reds, for whatever reason, and that they got their kill and the vote just disappeared. That's why he shows up in the narration with RED STONE KNIFE in his back, before the vote leader is revealed.
Are the Reds the same as the TransNats? Seems to me we're fighting TransNats and Saboteurs... or am I confused?
From my limited knowledge of the book, they would be two separate factions. The Reds would likely be the Saboteurs, since they're against any alteration of the Martian landscape.
I voted for Dac Vin at the last minute to create the tied situation between Sabs and Dac Vin at 7 votes each. At least, that's what I thought I was doing. It appears clear that certain things affect the vote count.
Dying before the vote means your vote doesn't actually count.
There is someone (are some people) who can manipulate the vote in some way.
As another vote manip idea, sometimes people can vote privately. Post a public vote in the thread, but then PM a private vote.
Ah yeah, I think that's come up in the past as well. In discussions, at least. I don't know that it's ever been used, but there have been lots of minis I haven't followed in CF lately.
Judging from the narration, I would say that Dav Vin was targeted by the Reds, for whatever reason, and that they got their kill and the vote just disappeared. That's why he shows up in the narration with RED STONE KNIFE in his back, before the vote leader is revealed.
Posts
Nope
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Also why don't you like this avatar stuff
sandy vagina maybe
NNID: Hakkekage
Yeah, well, he knew exactly the sort of attention his avatar would bring and could have switched out, even saying he was bowing to the popular will or something to make it less conspicuos. All in all, I just don't believe him.
We should find out soon(ish) though, which I argue is a good thing. Much better knowing rather than finding out on Night 6 when it's a bigger deal and could turn the game.
It's annoying. It's confusing and absolutely unnecessary.
Why does my not liking the avatar stuff bother you?
Sandy vagina maybe?
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
The Fan at Valley Mouth.
This image shows the intersection of a valley with the floor of a large impact crater. The valley appears to have transported sediment that was deposited on the crater floor when the flow slowed. As the eastern side of the lobate deposit appears to have been sheared off, it is possible that continuing flow from the valley eroded into its own deposits.
***
“Quiet please, I’m trying to count,†Nadia shouted.
The colonists had gathered in a tight group near the small pond that formed the centerpiece of the city park, and many conversed back and forth at high volume, their voices laced with fear and tension.
“Everyone, can we please settle down?†John waved his hands over his heads to get attention. “Have we gotten everyone’s vote?†He had done his best to lead the group toward the person he thought most suspicious, but he was still nervous about the results.
“Not warban’s!†a distraught colonist cried out. “Like I already told you, I found him in his bed this morning…he was dead…suffocated…†The colonist choked backed a sob and looked down at the ground as silence settled over the group.
“Maya’s not here,†Sax said. “And Frank went to find her…â€
Nadia slapped down the last of the pieces of paper she had been counting.
“Well, I guess we’ve reached a decision.â€
A fractured cry of anguish cut her off. The crowd turned, parting, to reveal Frank walking across the park, visiblehowl’s limp form draped across his arms. He laid her gently on the grass. The group of colonists drew together, packing in close to view the dead body of one of the most famous people on Mars.
“Maya…†Michel whispered.
“You bastard,†Frank said, focusing his blank stare on John. “You let her go off by herself. YOU LET HER GO OFF BY HERSELF.â€
John opened his mouth to reply but was silenced by the beep of his wristcom.
“John? Are you there? It’s Phyllis.â€
John felt the heat of Frank’s gaze on his face as he looked down at his wrist. His voice cracked as he forced out, “What do you want?â€
“Oh, I see you know. I’m so very sorry John, but we had no other choice-â€
“YOU BITCH!†Frank screamed, lunging for John’s wrist. He pulled himself away before Frank could get to it, then turned it off.
Suddenly a commotion broke out in the back of the crowd. A lump in his throat, John pushed his way through as someone screamed.
Dac Vin lay face down on the grass, a red stone knife buried between his shoulders.
Colonists began backing away, breaking off into small groups, when Arkady began to laugh. Quietly at first, then louder until he was almost barking.
At his side, Nadia held up the piece of paper revealing the person who had received the most votes, by a margin of two. It read, “Dac Vin.â€
Dead:
warban - Colonist
visiblehowl - Maya Toitovna
Dac Vin - Colonist
Sending appropriate PM's now.
Also, these sandy vaginas are disturbing. How did they get so sandy?
I have found that, in the past, when it's not in the rules/rundown in the OP, the GM refuses to answer.
We could have asked, sure... but this was just as easy, and I'm curious about both of the contenders and have no reason to believe either one to be not deserving of elimination. It's Day 1.
[Edit]
Also, this way we can have some sort of idea if perhaps there are vote manipulators our there or mechanics for doing so.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
O well Time to change my avatar back. More cats must join the plight, Take up my Torch of Frog Cat fire! Avenge me!
OOOOOooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Well I mean only me and Hakkekage talked about it before into changing into frog kitty, not my fault if other people follow and copy us.
Also I am alive????
3DS: 2852-6809-9411
3DS: 2852-6809-9411
Ties will be broken randomly.
Uh. No?
... I really don't know what the picture is. A frog or a crocodile. Some kind of amphibian or lizard.
but they're listening to every word I say
Oh, she always tried to claim I was a crocodile.
It's the Lochness Monster. That's always been my avatar, except I used to have a crappy image from a Google search. Tripwire in the AC made cards of the AC [Chat] regulars back in the day with their avatars and he did mine for me too, which is where my image is from... obviously cropped closer around the face.
Was the tie broken randomly tonight?
As one not familiar with the source material, what is it likely that Maya represented, role-wise?
Man I even put it in the narration for you. Nope.
3DS: 2852-6809-9411
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
We found out that Dac Vin was just a Colonist, which is unfortunate, but at least it's something we know. We also know who voted for him and can see who they were trying to save and who they moved their votes from in order to vote for him. It's Day 1, yeah, but it can be an easy place to hide.
We found out, possibly, that there are vote manipulation abilities out there. I would imagine that the RNG to break the tie would simply mean the eliminated player wins the vote by 1. Dac Vin won by 2 votes, indicating that something else may have been going on.
So, that also lets us know that somone may have saved Sabs... and that Sabs may have been worth saving to someone? It's interesting, at the very least.
So again, what didn't work?
(We also got to find out what happens in case of a tie.)
I saw that in the narration. I wanted to make you spell it out for other people who may have missed it so that the whole thing can't be used as ammunition against me later in arguments when I start talking about how someone saved Sabs using a manipulation ability. Either they subtracted votes from Sabs and could be anyone, or their vote counted for more than one and they voted for Dac Vin.
This way, with you clearly spelling it out, no one can claim I have any special insider knowledge and use it as fuel to start a wasted bandwaggon on me.
Thanks for the clarification, though.
Exactly.
That's what didn't work by your little stunt (we had to ask afterwards, you were part of this conversation. . . ). Cool idea you had, but there appears to definitely be some vote manip going on behind the scenes (which I guess we also found out due to your move, so it was beneficial).
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Steam | Twitter
I blame Diebold.
but they're listening to every word I say
It's a toughie. She's a really political person in the books, involved in a number of relationships and leadership positions. I suppose you could stretch it to saying that perhaps she might be a guardian but that's doubtful. Perhaps some vote manipulation herself? It'd be the closest to someone whose book character has hands in many pies.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Oh. Well, that wasn't even my main goal, but I didn't talk about it until after. I wanted to find out about vote manipulating abilities, if there were any in play. It seemed a ripe opportunity to learn.
Looking at it... and going with the flavour from the Narration... warban and visiblehowl's votes both probably did not count. So, since visiblehowl voted for Dac Vin, that actually means that Sabs won the vanilla vote 7 to 6.
But, Dac Vin ended up winning the final vote by 2 votes. This means there was at least three votes' worth of manipulation going on. So, somone or some people who voted for Dac Vin had their votes count as more or someone or some people were able to subtract votes from Sabs... or it was a combination of the two.
There have been, in the past, roles where your vote for someone actually counts as a negative vote for them. I could also see an ability where someone simply targets a player and can subtract votes from that player. There is also the fairly basic multiplication of a single vote for someone, usually having it count as 2 or 3 instead of 1.
Are the Reds the same as the TransNats? Seems to me we're fighting TransNats and Saboteurs... or am I confused?
Reds and TransNats are two separate groups in the novels.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
And you voted for Dac Vin, didn't you LaOs?
Would the Reds be the name for the Saboteurs, then?
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
From my limited knowledge of the book, they would be two separate factions. The Reds would likely be the Saboteurs, since they're against any alteration of the Martian landscape.
Steam | Twitter
I've never even heard of this in any Phalla.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
I voted for Dac Vin at the last minute to create the tied situation between Sabs and Dac Vin at 7 votes each. At least, that's what I thought I was doing. It appears clear that certain things affect the vote count.
Dying before the vote means your vote doesn't actually count.
There is someone (are some people) who can manipulate the vote in some way.
Ah yeah, I think that's come up in the past as well. In discussions, at least. I don't know that it's ever been used, but there have been lots of minis I haven't followed in CF lately.
Visiblehowl
warban
aegis
enlightened bum
Hakkekage
laos
raiden333
all voted Dac Vin. But warban and visiblehowl are both dead.
but they're listening to every word I say