So yeah, tons of misconceptions and lies get thrown around about warfare in this time period.
I had someone tell me that the American revolution was won because the Americans used guerrilla tactics against the silly English, who stood in lines and thus were crushed by the quick moving and smarter American troops. My head hurt quite alot after that comment.
It didn't help that a lot of modern media (e.g. The Patriot) spread this misconception around. That and we still love "lol british" comments.
Didn't they also sell the revolution some naval vessels to help fill in it's fledgling navy? Or am I mentally making that up.
Your not, though they were mostly in crappy vessels that French didn't want to use anymore.
One of the US's first naval victories was in such a ship. They were losing for most of it, untill their mast was destroyed. Since striking you colors (how you surrendered) required a mast, the British ship stopped firing, and asked if they surrendered, and got no responce. After the third time, the American captain (whose name I can't remember) shouted out the now-famous words "I have yet begun to fight!" and ordered the firing of the full broadside the Americans were loading while the British were asking if they surrendered. Americans won, but they had to take the British ship for themselves after thier own sunk.
Basically, we were fairly retarded and it's amazing we survived for this long.
Thanks for that. I vaguely knew who Lafayette was since there's a shit load of places and streets named after him around these parts, but it's nice to know the whole story. Funny how my US history teachers didn't mention him once.
Primary history education here is pretty much "America, fuck yeah!" It gets better in the universities and at the military academies, but it's still pretty much like we "let them" help us out.
It's the same in other countries as well. WWII and beyond here has been pretty much various colourful stories about how we kicked some Soviet ass (while people forget that we actually lost the war and haven't actually won a war, ever. Oh, and the whole "hey, let's ally with NAZI GERMANY" thing) and then pretty much built a modern welfare state out of pure Nordic sweat and blood.
So yeah, tons of misconceptions and lies get thrown around about warfare in this time period.
I had someone tell me that the American revolution was won because the Americans used guerrilla tactics against the silly English, who stood in lines and thus were crushed by the quick moving and smarter American troops. My head hurt quite alot after that comment.
It didn't help that a lot of modern media (e.g. The Patriot) spread this misconception around. That and we still love "lol british" comments.
Didn't they also sell the revolution some naval vessels to help fill in it's fledgling navy? Or am I mentally making that up.
Your not, though they were mostly in crappy vessels that French didn't want to use anymore.
One of the US's first naval victories was in such a ship. They were losing for most of it, untill their mast was destroyed. Since striking you colors (how you surrendered) required a mast, the British ship stopped firing, and asked if they surrendered, and got no responce. After the third time, the American captain (whose name I can't remember) shouted out the now-famous words "I have yet begun to fight!" and ordered the firing of the full broadside the Americans were loading while the British were asking if they surrendered. Americans won, but they had to take the British ship for themselves after thier own sunk.
Basically, we were fairly retarded and it's amazing we survived for this long.
Thanks for that. I vaguely knew who Lafayette was since there's a shit load of places and streets named after him around these parts, but it's nice to know the whole story. Funny how my US history teachers didn't mention him once.
Primary history education here is pretty much "America, fuck yeah!" It gets better in the universities and at the military academies, but it's still pretty much like we "let them" help us out.
It's the same in other countries as well. WWII and beyond here has been pretty much various colourful stories about how we kicked some Soviet ass (while people forget that we actually lost the war and haven't actually won a war, ever. Oh, and the whole "hey, let's ally with NAZI GERMANY" thing) and then pretty much built a modern welfare state out of pure Nordic sweat and blood.
So yeah, tons of misconceptions and lies get thrown around about warfare in this time period.
I had someone tell me that the American revolution was won because the Americans used guerrilla tactics against the silly English, who stood in lines and thus were crushed by the quick moving and smarter American troops. My head hurt quite alot after that comment.
It didn't help that a lot of modern media (e.g. The Patriot) spread this misconception around. That and we still love "lol british" comments.
Didn't they also sell the revolution some naval vessels to help fill in it's fledgling navy? Or am I mentally making that up.
Your not, though they were mostly in crappy vessels that French didn't want to use anymore.
One of the US's first naval victories was in such a ship. They were losing for most of it, untill their mast was destroyed. Since striking you colors (how you surrendered) required a mast, the British ship stopped firing, and asked if they surrendered, and got no responce. After the third time, the American captain (whose name I can't remember) shouted out the now-famous words "I have yet begun to fight!" and ordered the firing of the full broadside the Americans were loading while the British were asking if they surrendered. Americans won, but they had to take the British ship for themselves after thier own sunk.
Basically, we were fairly retarded and it's amazing we survived for this long.
Thanks for that. I vaguely knew who Lafayette was since there's a shit load of places and streets named after him around these parts, but it's nice to know the whole story. Funny how my US history teachers didn't mention him once.
Primary history education here is pretty much "America, fuck yeah!" It gets better in the universities and at the military academies, but it's still pretty much like we "let them" help us out.
I don't see how we were 'fairly retarded'. We just didn't know how to fight the 'proper European way'. Which was a good thing in the end!
Also I'm looking for some good books on the Napoleonic Wars, anyone have some recommendations?
If you want to know the background to the tactics and strategy in E:TW, it's worth looking up the 'Military Revolution' and the historian Michael Roberts, also King Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden. Many of the military tactics displayed in Empire came out of the preceding period, especially the Thirty Years War. As for books on the period itself I can't really help you.
You could try reading/watching Sharpe, and learn how to defeat Napoleon with naught but gruff Yorkshire charm, a massive wang and a motley bunch of sharpshooters.
If you want to know the background to the tactics and strategy in E:TW, it's worth looking up the 'Military Revolution' and the historian Michael Roberts, also King Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden. Many of the military tactics displayed in Empire came out of the preceding period, especially the Thirty Years War. As for books on the period itself I can't really help you.
You could try reading/watching Sharpe, and learn how to defeat Napoleon with naught but gruff Yorkshire charm, a massive wang and a motley bunch of sharpshooters.
And of course a six barrel shotgun I loved sharpe, but my main criticism was some of the ridiculous side stories like the aztecs one.
I hope CA release an addon that extends this up to the 1870's. Warfare was still formation based, but the campaigns are pretty awesome. Like olol afghanistan beat the brits or the Crimean War or the Civil War.
I don't see how we were 'fairly retarded'. We just didn't know how to fight the 'proper European way'. Which was a good thing in the end!
Also I'm looking for some good books on the Napoleonic Wars, anyone have some recommendations?
Nah, it was disastrous, you remained in the war due to some terrible tactical decisions by the British, abysmal support for the war at home in the UK, sweltering heat and malaria to which the British troops were ill adjusted and England being engaged in numerous other major conflicts tying up its resources. You began to win once European experts trained your troops to fight anywhere near the British level, and the British troops became exhausted from a long campaign. Failures at sea by the English navy against the French also played a major role in denying England the capacity to move its troops.
Remember that almost any tactical advantage you had, was also possessed by the British since about a third of your population fought on our side.
tbloxham on
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
0
HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
edited January 2009
I am looking forward to this game so so so much, my most anticipated game of 2009 so far!
Most of all the improved diplomacy, it's been completely broken in exactly every Total War game.
If you want to know the background to the tactics and strategy in E:TW, it's worth looking up the 'Military Revolution' and the historian Michael Roberts, also King Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden. Many of the military tactics displayed in Empire came out of the preceding period, especially the Thirty Years War. As for books on the period itself I can't really help you.
You could try reading/watching Sharpe, and learn how to defeat Napoleon with naught but gruff Yorkshire charm, a massive wang and a motley bunch of sharpshooters.
And of course a six barrel shotgun I loved sharpe, but my main criticism was some of the ridiculous side stories like the aztecs one.
I hope CA release an addon that extends this up to the 1870's. Warfare was still formation based, but the campaigns are pretty awesome. Like olol afghanistan beat the brits or the Crimean War or the Civil War.
That would be tough to do, by the 1870's you're getting serious trench warfare in open field battles, not just sieges.
As for Sharpe, my girlfriend points out that the wang is oft implied but never seen. The arse on the other hand. . .
...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.
Is that a serious question? Imagine trying to play this on a console
Rohan on
...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
0
Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
Also, I hope the soundtrack is good. If not, that is fine, I've got plenty of classical music to play while I conquer. I'm definitely gonna play a select few pieces during major naval and/or land battles. Such as this one:
Is that a serious question? Imagine trying to play this on a console
left left up right double x = cavalry charge
Awesome.
Rohan on
...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.
I don't see how we were 'fairly retarded'. We just didn't know how to fight the 'proper European way'. Which was a good thing in the end!
Also I'm looking for some good books on the Napoleonic Wars, anyone have some recommendations?
Nah, it was disastrous, you remained in the war due to some terrible tactical decisions by the British, abysmal support for the war at home in the UK, sweltering heat and malaria to which the British troops were ill adjusted and England being engaged in numerous other major conflicts tying up its resources. You began to win once European experts trained your troops to fight anywhere near the British level, and the British troops became exhausted from a long campaign. Failures at sea by the English navy against the French also played a major role in denying England the capacity to move its troops.
Remember that almost any tactical advantage you had, was also possessed by the British since about a third of your population fought on our side.
Including the Amazing Vanishing Millita(tm)
Let's talk about the War of 1812 now. Sure, the US was fighting tooth and nail just to not lose territory, but the fact that the Royal Navy stopped engaging American ships unless they had a 3 to 1 advatage before the end of it is something I want to rub in Scarab's nose :P
Let's talk about the War of 1812 now. Sure, the US was fighting tooth and nail just to not lose territory, but the fact that the Royal Navy stopped engaging American ships unless they had a 3 to 1 advatage before the end of it is something I want to rub in Scarab's nose :P
You could. But then he could rub in the part where America went down in history as the only nation that tried and failed to invade Canada.
GuyMontag on
News you can use! (FAILURE TO USE THIS NEWS WILL RESULT IN TERMINATION)
Let's talk about the War of 1812 now. Sure, the US was fighting tooth and nail just to not lose territory, but the fact that the Royal Navy stopped engaging American ships unless they had a 3 to 1 advatage before the end of it is something I want to rub in Scarab's nose :P
You could. But then he could rub in the part where America went down in history as the only nation that tried and failed to invade Canada.
Ah, good old General Brock and the Niagara. I'm most looking forward to diplomacy improvements in this iteration, though I found that after the most recent Medieval 2 patch diplomacy vastly improved above anything I had experienced within the series before. A bit less irrational alliance breaking at least.
Beren39 on
Go, Go, EXCALIBUR! - Trent Varsity Swim Team 2009, better watch out for me Phelps!
Guys if you want to have a say on where you want the TW series to go there is a survey up for all interested in having your say.
They have a lot of questions but it only takes about 5-10 mins to fill out at they ask which era you prefer out of Rome: Punic Wars, World War I, Imperial China and Feudal Japan, Classical Greece and the 19th Century.
I don't see how we were 'fairly retarded'. We just didn't know how to fight the 'proper European way'. Which was a good thing in the end!
They did all sorts of crazy shit like that during the war. They got caught with our pants down more often than is commonly thought and snached victory from the jaws of mediocrity. It's not that they won everything by chance and didn't have any good minds, but luck will do when some of your generals have shit for brains.
Ah, good old General Brock and the Niagara. I'm most looking forward to diplomacy improvements in this iteration, though I found that after the most recent Medieval 2 patch diplomacy vastly improved above anything I had experienced within the series before. A bit less irrational alliance breaking at least.
You know, after dealing with years of crazy diplomacy out of the Civilization games, especially with "see-saw" allies/enemies, that kind of stuff never bothered me. It was one of the things I put in the survey, though.
I'd also like to see a break from building-based unit availability to technology-based unit availability. Building up the same set of buildings in every damn city gets old, especially when you want something other than militia, especially once the empire gets big. I realize that's part of the way 4x games just work, but it slows things down and makes winning become a hassle.
Let's talk about the War of 1812 now. Sure, the US was fighting tooth and nail just to not lose territory, but the fact that the Royal Navy stopped engaging American ships unless they had a 3 to 1 advatage before the end of it is something I want to rub in Scarab's nose :P
You could. But then he could rub in the part where America went down in history as the only nation that tried and failed to invade Canada.
... Which was defended by British veterans of the Napoleonic Wars, but yeah, maybe I should shut up...
A British tar is a soaring soul
As free as a mountain bird
His energetic fist should be ready to resist
A dictatorial word
His nose should pant and his lip should curl
His cheeks should flame and his brow should furl
His bosom should heave and his heart should glow
And his fist be ever ready for a knock-down blow
His eyes should flash with an inborn fire
His brow with scorn be wrung
He never should bow down to a domineering frown
Or the tang of a tyrant tongue
His foot should stamp and his throat should growl
His hair should curl and his face should scowl
His eyes should flash and his breast protrude
And this should be his customary attitude
A British tar is a soaring soul
As free as a mountain bird
His energetic fist should be ready to resist
A dictatorial word
His nose should pant and his lip should curl
His cheeks should flame and his brow should furl
His bosom should heave and his heart should glow
And his fist be ever ready for a knock-down blow
His eyes should flash with an inborn fire
His brow with scorn be wrung
He never should bow down to a domineering frown
Or the tang of a tyrant tongue
His foot should stamp and his throat should growl
His hair should curl and his face should scowl
His eyes should flash and his breast protrude
And this should be his customary attitude
The best bit of Insurrection. "Worf, sing!"
Rohan on
...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.
WWI was all about horrible mulching troop death and trench lines and endless stalemates and lack of success territorially.
I don't think it would make for a fun game, especially on the world map.
Actually, the Western Front was like that but the Eastern Front was marked by large flanking maneuvers and encirclements. The Western Front was largely ignored by Germany until Russia pulled out due to revolution. Germany dug in hoping to wait it out until they closed the eastern front and this is what created the trench warfare we know and hate. However, they only gave up on the Western Front AFTER their plan to knock out France in a quick strike failed.
BUT BACK TO THE GAME!
I was concerned with the ship battles but seeing actual footage, it really does look like they did as good of a job as with the land battles. Any word on privateers? Because I would love to attack some shipping.
Guys if you want to have a say on where you want the TW series to go there is a survey up for all interested in having your say.
They have a lot of questions but it only takes about 5-10 mins to fill out at they ask which era you prefer out of Rome: Punic Wars, World War I, Imperial China and Feudal Japan, Classical Greece and the 19th Century.
Let's talk about the War of 1812 now. Sure, the US was fighting tooth and nail just to not lose territory, but the fact that the Royal Navy stopped engaging American ships unless they had a 3 to 1 advatage before the end of it is something I want to rub in Scarab's nose :P
Damn right 3 to1 advantage!
Due to the American Revolution, The British no longer had access to American shipyards which by the turn of the century were turning out some the finest ships, crewed by volunteers not pressganged drunkards madmen & landlubbers. Also the Royal Navy had around 1000 ships trying to safeguard trade lanes world wide so were strecthed very thin...also to have been beaten by an upstart AMerican sailor 1v1 would have been very embrassing. I'm sure there was an battle were an American fought & took a Royal Navy ship with a higher tonnage. Can't remember it off hand.
CAn't wait for the game anyway! Mmmmm......Naval Battles
Posts
It's the same in other countries as well. WWII and beyond here has been pretty much various colourful stories about how we kicked some Soviet ass (while people forget that we actually lost the war and haven't actually won a war, ever. Oh, and the whole "hey, let's ally with NAZI GERMANY" thing) and then pretty much built a modern welfare state out of pure Nordic sweat and blood.
Ya gotta admit, the stats from this war are pretty awesome on your side.
But yeah, that was USSR's Vietnam before their adventures in Afganistan. Home turf edge rules.
I don't see how we were 'fairly retarded'. We just didn't know how to fight the 'proper European way'. Which was a good thing in the end!
Also I'm looking for some good books on the Napoleonic Wars, anyone have some recommendations?
You could try reading/watching Sharpe, and learn how to defeat Napoleon with naught but gruff Yorkshire charm, a massive wang and a motley bunch of sharpshooters.
And of course a six barrel shotgun I loved sharpe, but my main criticism was some of the ridiculous side stories like the aztecs one.
I hope CA release an addon that extends this up to the 1870's. Warfare was still formation based, but the campaigns are pretty awesome. Like olol afghanistan beat the brits or the Crimean War or the Civil War.
Nah, it was disastrous, you remained in the war due to some terrible tactical decisions by the British, abysmal support for the war at home in the UK, sweltering heat and malaria to which the British troops were ill adjusted and England being engaged in numerous other major conflicts tying up its resources. You began to win once European experts trained your troops to fight anywhere near the British level, and the British troops became exhausted from a long campaign. Failures at sea by the English navy against the French also played a major role in denying England the capacity to move its troops.
Remember that almost any tactical advantage you had, was also possessed by the British since about a third of your population fought on our side.
Most of all the improved diplomacy, it's been completely broken in exactly every Total War game.
That would be tough to do, by the 1870's you're getting serious trench warfare in open field battles, not just sieges.
As for Sharpe, my girlfriend points out that the wang is oft implied but never seen. The arse on the other hand. . .
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
What?
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
I need a job. Dammed time-consuming university courses...
Is that a serious question? Imagine trying to play this on a console
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
He just said that Eldar are space ninjas.
Man PR should not play games.
I think you're in the wrong thread. :P
Also, I hope the soundtrack is good. If not, that is fine, I've got plenty of classical music to play while I conquer. I'm definitely gonna play a select few pieces during major naval and/or land battles. Such as this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlci-kCEaKE
left left up right double x = cavalry charge
Needs more grey.
Awesome.
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
Including the Amazing Vanishing Millita(tm)
Let's talk about the War of 1812 now. Sure, the US was fighting tooth and nail just to not lose territory, but the fact that the Royal Navy stopped engaging American ships unless they had a 3 to 1 advatage before the end of it is something I want to rub in Scarab's nose :P
You could. But then he could rub in the part where America went down in history as the only nation that tried and failed to invade Canada.
Ah, good old General Brock and the Niagara. I'm most looking forward to diplomacy improvements in this iteration, though I found that after the most recent Medieval 2 patch diplomacy vastly improved above anything I had experienced within the series before. A bit less irrational alliance breaking at least.
They have a lot of questions but it only takes about 5-10 mins to fill out at they ask which era you prefer out of Rome: Punic Wars, World War I, Imperial China and Feudal Japan, Classical Greece and the 19th Century.
http://www.totalwarsurvey.com/survey.tao
It was a stick.
The charge of the light cavalry!
and yeah, lots of trenches.
I don't think it would make for a fun game, especially on the world map.
You know, after dealing with years of crazy diplomacy out of the Civilization games, especially with "see-saw" allies/enemies, that kind of stuff never bothered me. It was one of the things I put in the survey, though.
I'd also like to see a break from building-based unit availability to technology-based unit availability. Building up the same set of buildings in every damn city gets old, especially when you want something other than militia, especially once the empire gets big. I realize that's part of the way 4x games just work, but it slows things down and makes winning become a hassle.
... Which was defended by British veterans of the Napoleonic Wars, but yeah, maybe I should shut up...
I'd love to see the carnage that would result in.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kPQE3GfkrOo&fmt=18
then click on the link :P
The best bit of Insurrection. "Worf, sing!"
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
Hearts of Oak
More of a real navy song.
Edit: zomg turns out Picard sang this one too.o_O
It was a stick.
Actually, the Western Front was like that but the Eastern Front was marked by large flanking maneuvers and encirclements. The Western Front was largely ignored by Germany until Russia pulled out due to revolution. Germany dug in hoping to wait it out until they closed the eastern front and this is what created the trench warfare we know and hate. However, they only gave up on the Western Front AFTER their plan to knock out France in a quick strike failed.
BUT BACK TO THE GAME!
I was concerned with the ship battles but seeing actual footage, it really does look like they did as good of a job as with the land battles. Any word on privateers? Because I would love to attack some shipping.
For me it was
19th
China/Japan
Rome
Greek
WWI
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
PSN: Threeve703
As many-handed as a cuttlefish.