December Year over Year Change (2008/2007)
360: +14.29%
PS3: -9.02%
Wii: +59.26%
Full Year over Year Change (2008/2007)
360: +4.08%
PS3: +38.58%
Wii: +61.69%
2007:
DS 8.430 mil
PSP 3.823 mil
360 4.618 mil
PS3 2.555 mil
Wii 6.289 mil
2008:
DS 9.951 mil
PSP 3.829 mil
360 4.735 mil
PS3 3.544 mil
Wii 10.171 mil
360 sales look fairly stagnate. Was there a price drop or something last year?
I think your definition of "stagnate" needs work. Stagnate means not changing. 4% growth is still growth. Maybe plateau is a better word, although I realize we're arguing over semantics.
Anyway, there was a price drop for the 360 last year, I think around the August time frame. Basically in time for the holidays, similar to this year.
10 Million units in a year. 17 million in its lifetime. Probably the lowest overlap with competing consoles out of the three. And then the profit made on the console together with the top selling games being at full price yet not being close to games like GoW 2 or GTA4.
So when is Nintendo buying... Um, everything and everybody? I mean, we might as well start practice kneeling and using the SMB theme for the global anthem, no?
Also, PS3 being down in comparison to 2007 is... Yow.
It will be very interesting to hear if the stores were cleared out. If there are many Wiis left we'll get a price cut in the first half of 2009 I guess.
EDIT: OK I have work in eight and a half hours get away from the keyboardgetawaygetaway!
It provides no indication on average sales, or highest sales or anything else. It is simply total. Which means so little.
It also doesn't speak at all about quality, or anything really.
The other point is that the PS3 and the 360 are not separate for the vast majority of games. Meaning you combine both of their lines and it is higher than the Wii line. Much higher.
The graph addresses the "3rd parties don't sell on Wii" rhetoric. Its purpose is not to address quality, average sales, or 360/PS3 combined sales.
The graph does exactly what is intended. Challenge the validity or source if you wish, but the message is clear.
DeaconKnowledge on
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1. Wii Play w/ remote - Wii – Nintendo – 5.28 million
2. Mario Kart Wii w/ wheel – Wii – Nintendo – 5.00 million
3. Wii Fit w/ balance board – Wii – Nintendo – 4.53 million
4. Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Wii – Nintendo – 4.17 million
5. Grand Theft Auto IV - Xbox 360 – Take-Two – 3.29 million*
6. Call of Duty: World at War - Xbox 360 – Activision – 2.75 million*
7. Gears of War 2 - Xbox 360 – Microsoft – 2.31 million*
8. Grand Theft Auto IV - PS3 – Take-Two – 1.89 million*
9. Madden NFL '09 - Xbox 360 – Electronic Arts – 1.87 million*
10. Mario Kart - DS – Nintendo – 1.65 million
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I’ll tell you what happens in Demon’s Souls when you die. You come back as a ghost with your health capped at half. And when you keep on dying, the alignment of the world turns black and the enemies get harder. That’s right, when you fail in this game, it gets harder. Why? Because fuck you is why.
The other point is that the PS3 and the 360 are not separate for the vast majority of games. Meaning you combine both of their lines and it is higher than the Wii line. Much higher.
Retarded spin ahoy!
Yeah, that makes no sense. So we should combine the lines of PS2/PSP/Wii ports also then?
December Year over Year Change (2008/2007)
360: +14.29%
PS3: -9.02%
Wii: +59.26%
Full Year over Year Change (2008/2007)
360: +4.08%
PS3: +38.58%
Wii: +61.69%
2007:
DS 8.430 mil
PSP 3.823 mil
360 4.618 mil
PS3 2.555 mil
Wii 6.289 mil
2008:
DS 9.951 mil
PSP 3.829 mil
360 4.735 mil
PS3 3.544 mil
Wii 10.171 mil
360 sales look fairly stagnate. Was there a price drop or something last year?
360 sales were definitely stagnating earlier this year, but since the price drop, they seem to have gone up a decent amount. It'll be interesting to see if the system continues to sell well in the first half of 2009 or if sales start to stagnate again.
The graph addresses the assertion "3rd parties don't sell on Wii" rhetoric. It's purpose is not to address quality, average sales, or 360/PS3 combined sales..
Indeed. And if someone tries to argue that Wii is currently having poor 3rd party sales, then X360, supposed 3rd party haven, had poor 3rd party sales for first two years.
elkatas on
Hypnotically inclined.
0
Dr Mario KartGames DealerAustin, TXRegistered Userregular
Also, too little is being said of Guitar Hero's dominance on the Wii after an abysmal first month.
DeaconKnowledge on
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UPDATE: Having read our story, Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter decided to give us his take in an email: "Year-to-date (which I think is more relevant than lifetime), third parties have sold 13.4 million units of software for the Wii and 16.5 million units for the 360. That's NPD, and U.S. only. My guess is that the numbers are much closer to the same if we include Europe, and much higher for Wii if we go worldwide."
I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii 3rd party games sold more than 360 3rd party games in December because of the extra Wii sales, and I think that the people who own a Wii are more likely to buy games as a Christmas presents than possibly with some other consoles.
It provides no indication on average sales, or highest sales or anything else. It is simply total. Which means so little.
It also doesn't speak at all about quality, or anything really.
The other point is that the PS3 and the 360 are not separate for the vast majority of games. Meaning you combine both of their lines and it is higher than the Wii line. Much higher.
The graph addresses the assertion "3rd parties don't sell on Wii" rhetoric. It's purpose is not to address quality, average sales, or 360/PS3 combined sales.
The graph does exactly what is intended. Challenge the validity or source if you wish, but the message is clear.
Argh. Fail.
Graphs and statistics can still spin data in so many ways. If I remember correctly, this graph came from Nintendo's own press conference. You don't think they're going to choose the "right" charts and stats to show off to "prove their point"? Of course they are, and of course it's something the fanboys are going to copy and paste repeatedly, not being skeptical at all.
Of course, if MS or Sony did something similar, you know the reaction is going to be, "Oh, it's spin!" or something similar.
Scarab makes some excellent points. And again, I want to point out that this is using the whole "launch aligned" metric as well. I'm not saying that the graph is completely worthless or anything, but we should be skeptical. And saying, "Ohh, this is proof that 3rd parties don't sell on Wii" is just, again, just drinking their Kool-Aid.
So nearly one in two Wii sold in December also had Wii Fit sold with it.
10 million Wii sold all year, 4 million sold in just November and December, Oh-so-close to 5 million when you include October. Between Oct-Dec, Wii Fit = 2.183 million.
I'd be interested to see the best selling games of the year when you combine multiplatform releases into one. I daresay the top 10 chart would be drastically different.
The other point is that the PS3 and the 360 are not separate for the vast majority of games. Meaning you combine both of their lines and it is higher than the Wii line. Much higher.
Retarded spin ahoy!
Yeah, that makes no sense. So we should combine the lines of PS2/PSP/Wii ports also then?
Yes. Why split the platforms in this way? Many third party developers design a game from day one to be as cross platform as possible. Unless a manufacturer enters into an exclusivity deal in which case they will cover the lost profits and/or provide marketing funds there is no reason to limit yourself to one console.
Nintendo is answering the question 'do third parties sell on Wii', well the answer is clearly yes, was anyone really suggesting they were not? The point is that they are selling less in comparison to the competition, and in this market it is entirely fair and correct to combine a lot of the PS3 and 360 sales into one larger 'opposition' pot. Because when Ubisoft makes Farcry 2, they put it on PS3, on 360 and PC and sell to a larger market than if it was just on Wii.
Of course, you can go the Activision or whatever route and port to everything, in which case it makes the whole discussion moot. Each platform has anomalies and each has trends.
The point is that the Nintendo graph is implying that they sell the most third party software, but they have almost done the reverse of the 'Playstation family' argument by dividing a cross-platform base in the 360 and PS3 into two separate and smaller figures, when in the real world a third party would combine them into one marketshare, which is broadly speaking accurate.
I remember Epic saying how porting Unreal Tournament 3 from the Ps3 to the 360 was incredibly easy. Clearly they had deals which delayed their efforts. Moreso, while the PC market is inquantifiable because NPD no longer tracks it as accurately, it is global and large. And shares similar architecture with the PS360 base, thus adding to the market.
My point being this : That Nintendo graph is displaying one piece of information. The third party sales on each console. But I was saying that it was misleading, which it is. It does not take into account the homogenous nature of the Ps3 and the 360 in terms of development and game releases, and it also discounts a large PC market which, again, is tired intrinsically to the 360 and Ps3 markets - which combined are larger.
The graph says nothing other than giving figures out of context and misleading.
Graphs and statistics can still spin data in so many ways. If I remember correctly, this graph came from Nintendo's own press conference. You don't think they're going to choose the "right" charts and stats to show off to "prove their point"?
Numbers were from NPD, and they have been verified correct.
Graphs and statistics can still spin data in so many ways. If I remember correctly, this graph came from Nintendo's own press conference. You don't think they're going to choose the "right" charts and stats to show off to "prove their point"?
Numbers were from NPD, and they have been verified correct.
The data being presented was never in question. The method in which it is presented is what we call 'spin'.
Graphs and statistics can still spin data in so many ways. If I remember correctly, this graph came from Nintendo's own press conference. You don't think they're going to choose the "right" charts and stats to show off to "prove their point"?
Numbers were from NPD, and they have been verified correct.
Year to date stuff provided in August 2008 by NPD through Pachter show the Wii third party sales as pretty close to 360 third party sales. Now that the Wii total over the 360 is getting higher, the third party sales should become much better for the Wii compared to the 360 unless Wii owners just stop buying games.
Year to date stuff provided in August 2008 show the Wii third party sales as pretty close to 360 third party sales. Now that the Wii total over the 360 is getting higher, the third party sales should become much better for the Wii compared to the 360 unless Wii owners just stop buying games.
And the graph also shows that 3rd party sales are growing in much faster pace than its competitors sales.
Nintendo is answering the question 'do third parties sell on Wii', well the answer is clearly yes, was anyone really suggesting they were not?.
Certain unnamed posters have suggested this multiple times this year.
I'm pretty sure that unless it was ironically said or in jest, noone ever said third parties don't sell on Wii. Unless they were inferring by comparison to other consoles the notion that third party game sales on Wii were nonexistent is beyond retarded. I'd love some quotes on your points though.
Year to date stuff provided in August 2008 show the Wii third party sales as pretty close to 360 third party sales. Now that the Wii total over the 360 is getting higher, the third party sales should become much better for the Wii compared to the 360 unless Wii owners just stop buying games.
And the graph also shows that sales are growing in much faster pace than its competitors.
Because the Wii install base is growing at a much faster pace than its competitors.
Graphs and statistics can still spin data in so many ways. If I remember correctly, this graph came from Nintendo's own press conference. You don't think they're going to choose the "right" charts and stats to show off to "prove their point"? Of course they are, and of course it's something the fanboys are going to copy and paste repeatedly, not being skeptical at all.
Of course, if MS or Sony did something similar, you know the reaction is going to be, "Oh, it's spin!" or something similar.
Scarab makes some excellent points. And again, I want to point out that this is using the whole "launch aligned" metric as well. I'm not saying that the graph is completely worthless or anything, but we should be skeptical. And saying, "Ohh, this is proof that 3rd parties don't sell on Wii" is just, again, just drinking their Kool-Aid.
I don't even care about the graph, it was mainly a curt response to a curt post. Otherwise you get
It provides no indication on average sales, or highest sales or anything else. It is simply total. Which means so little.
It also doesn't speak at all about quality, or anything really.
The other point is that the PS3 and the 360 are not separate for the vast majority of games. Meaning you combine both of their lines and it is higher than the Wii line. Much higher.
The graph addresses the assertion "3rd parties don't sell on Wii" rhetoric. It's purpose is not to address quality, average sales, or 360/PS3 combined sales.
The graph does exactly what is intended. Challenge the validity or source if you wish, but the message is clear.
Argh. Fail.
Graphs and statistics can still spin data in so many ways. If I remember correctly, this graph came from Nintendo's own press conference. You don't think they're going to choose the "right" charts and stats to show off to "prove their point"? Of course they are, and of course it's something the fanboys are going to copy and paste repeatedly, not being skeptical at all.
Of course, if MS or Sony did something similar, you know the reaction is going to be, "Oh, it's spin!" or something similar.
Scarab makes some excellent points. And again, I want to point out that this is using the whole "launch aligned" metric as well. I'm not saying that the graph is completely worthless or anything, but we should be skeptical. And saying, "Ohh, this is proof that 3rd parties don't sell on Wii" is just, again, just drinking their Kool-Aid.
You know Rooks, one thing I really don't like about your arguments is that you go back to the "fanboy" well anytime something runs against your belief.
As I said on the last page, you can doubt the validity or the source of the numbers of the graph all you want, but its intent, which is to assert that the Wii has sold more software than the 360 in the same time, is properly displayed in this graph. It does exactly what it is intended to do; display that the allegation (the allegation, may I point out, which is perpetuated by the fanboys that you so ardently abhor) that third parties don't sell on Wii. Whether or not it displays it as launch aligned is irrelevant; the Wii, even in that graph, has been on a sharp incline since that date.
As for Sony and Microsoft, I think even you would agree that both get cute with numbers that don't favor them (two specific examples, Sony making confusing mathematic comparisons to prop up the performance of the PS3 in December, or MS completely ignoring the Wii AND the total units its sold in the month in their latest PR statements, which would denote that they are being outsold in Raw 3rd party units, instead beating the Wii in revenue which is what they focus on). Nintendo doesn't need to do this because the numbers DO favour them. There is no need to be creative with numbers when you're ahead.
DeaconKnowledge on
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Dr Mario KartGames DealerAustin, TXRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
I guess I'm not surprised that Pachter got Wii so wrong, but the similar EEDAR prediction was from that Jesse guy who used to run TSE. I expected better out of him. No one talked to retailers at all?
Well, it's "I don't like your graph" and "Why are you believing everything that a company's press conference tells you?"
As others have pointed out, the data is certainly factual. But folks are treating as if the Nintendo analysis is canon. It's not. It's merely one way, and obviously biased at that.
As I've said before, plenty of skepticism is heaped on other company's presentations. Yet, Nintendo always seems to get a "free pass". That is fanboyism.
EDIT: @Deacon - And yes, I go back to "fanboy" quite often because that's frankly, what I see a lot here. Which is fine, because a lot of people have admitted their biases. Just don't be surprised when myself, and others, who try to be a bit more objective, are more skeptical about something that comes from a company's press release verbatim.
It provides no indication on average sales, or highest sales or anything else. It is simply total. Which means so little.
It also doesn't speak at all about quality, or anything really.
The other point is that the PS3 and the 360 are not separate for the vast majority of games. Meaning you combine both of their lines and it is higher than the Wii line. Much higher.
The graph addresses the assertion "3rd parties don't sell on Wii" rhetoric. It's purpose is not to address quality, average sales, or 360/PS3 combined sales.
The graph does exactly what is intended. Challenge the validity or source if you wish, but the message is clear.
Argh. Fail.
Graphs and statistics can still spin data in so many ways. If I remember correctly, this graph came from Nintendo's own press conference. You don't think they're going to choose the "right" charts and stats to show off to "prove their point"? Of course they are, and of course it's something the fanboys are going to copy and paste repeatedly, not being skeptical at all.
Of course, if MS or Sony did something similar, you know the reaction is going to be, "Oh, it's spin!" or something similar.
Scarab makes some excellent points. And again, I want to point out that this is using the whole "launch aligned" metric as well. I'm not saying that the graph is completely worthless or anything, but we should be skeptical. And saying, "Ohh, this is proof that 3rd parties don't sell on Wii" is just, again, just drinking their Kool-Aid.
You know Rooks, one thing I really don't like about your arguments is that you go back to the "fanboy" well anytime something runs against your belief.
As I said on the last page, you can doubt the validity or the source of the numbers of the graph all you want, but its intent, which is to assert that the Wii has sold more software than the 360 in the same time, is properly displayed in this graph. It does exactly what it is intended to do; display that the allegation (the allegation, may I point out, which is perpetuated by the fanboys that you so ardently abhor) that third parties don't sell on Wii. Whether or not it displays it as launch aligned is irrelevant; the Wii, even in that graph, has been on a sharp incline since that date.
As for Sony and Microsoft, I think even you would agree that both get cute with numbers that don't favor them (two specific examples, Sony making confusing mathematic comparisons to prop up the performance of the PS3 in December, or MS completely ignoring the Wii AND the total units its sold in the month in their latest PR statements, which would denote that they are being outsold in Raw 3rd party units, instead beating the Wii in revenue which is what they focus on). Nintendo doesn't need to do this because the numbers DO favour them. There is no need to be creative with numbers when you're ahead.
So you want MS to bow down and hail the mighty Wii in their press release?
It provides no indication on average sales, or highest sales or anything else. It is simply total. Which means so little.
It also doesn't speak at all about quality, or anything really.
The other point is that the PS3 and the 360 are not separate for the vast majority of games. Meaning you combine both of their lines and it is higher than the Wii line. Much higher.
The graph addresses the assertion "3rd parties don't sell on Wii" rhetoric. It's purpose is not to address quality, average sales, or 360/PS3 combined sales.
The graph does exactly what is intended. Challenge the validity or source if you wish, but the message is clear.
Argh. Fail.
No, if you disagree then explain why. And not by ad hominem arguments.
Well, it's "I don't like your graph" and "Why are you believing everything that a company's press conference tells you?"
As others have pointed out, the data is certainly factual. But folks are treating as if the Nintendo analysis is canon. It's not. It's merely one way, and obviously biased at that.
As I've said before, plenty of skepticism is heaped on other company's presentations. Yet, Nintendo always seems to get a "free pass". That is fanboyism.
Again, explain what is wrong with their analysis.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
(two specific examples, Sony making confusing mathematic comparisons to prop up the performance of the PS3 in December, or MS completely ignoring the Wii AND the total units its sold in the month in their latest PR statements, which would denote that they are being outsold in Raw 3rd party units, instead beating the Wii in revenue which is what they focus on).
Indeed. Microsoft stopped using 3rd party sales numbers during first months of last year, going instead for revenue. That happened immediately after Wii started to sell more* 3rd party software.
* This was clear after both Nintendo and Microsoft gave 3rd party profit numbers for same month. When both numbers were divided with their respective consoles typical retail price (60 vs 50 bucks), Nintendo was far ahead.
Well, it's "I don't like your graph" and "Why are you believing everything that a company's press conference tells you?"
As others have pointed out, the data is certainly factual. But folks are treating as if the Nintendo analysis is canon. It's not. It's merely one way, and obviously biased at that.
As I've said before, plenty of skepticism is heaped on other company's presentations. Yet, Nintendo always seems to get a "free pass". That is fanboyism.
I never made any mention of the analysis.
As I said twice before; challenge the source or the validity all you want, but the intent of the graph is clear.
DeaconKnowledge on
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It provides no indication on average sales, or highest sales or anything else. It is simply total. Which means so little.
It also doesn't speak at all about quality, or anything really.
The other point is that the PS3 and the 360 are not separate for the vast majority of games. Meaning you combine both of their lines and it is higher than the Wii line. Much higher.
The graph addresses the assertion "3rd parties don't sell on Wii" rhetoric. It's purpose is not to address quality, average sales, or 360/PS3 combined sales.
The graph does exactly what is intended. Challenge the validity or source if you wish, but the message is clear.
Argh. Fail.
Graphs and statistics can still spin data in so many ways. If I remember correctly, this graph came from Nintendo's own press conference. You don't think they're going to choose the "right" charts and stats to show off to "prove their point"? Of course they are, and of course it's something the fanboys are going to copy and paste repeatedly, not being skeptical at all.
Of course, if MS or Sony did something similar, you know the reaction is going to be, "Oh, it's spin!" or something similar.
Scarab makes some excellent points. And again, I want to point out that this is using the whole "launch aligned" metric as well. I'm not saying that the graph is completely worthless or anything, but we should be skeptical. And saying, "Ohh, this is proof that 3rd parties don't sell on Wii" is just, again, just drinking their Kool-Aid.
Holy hell. It's fucking obvious they're going to choose charts that make them look better, but choosing to totally dismiss the chart as you guys seem to be doing is disingenuous, I think. Part of the reason people post the chart is because we don't have any other convenient sources for LTD or YTD Third-Party sales.
Obviously it doesn't provide a complete comparison between Wii Third-Party and 360 sales but it has its' uses. Until we have more complete data at our hands, we work with what we have.
Just don't be surprised when myself, and others, who try to be a bit more objective, are more skeptical about something that comes from a company's press release verbatim.
It is great to see that you have self-irony. I wonder why we never heard you comment on Microsoft PR-spins and criticizing them. To be blunt, you are one of the biggest Microsoft billboard around, your bias is pretty clear, and you shouldn't have any nerve to call others fanboys.
It provides no indication on average sales, or highest sales or anything else. It is simply total. Which means so little.
It also doesn't speak at all about quality, or anything really.
The other point is that the PS3 and the 360 are not separate for the vast majority of games. Meaning you combine both of their lines and it is higher than the Wii line. Much higher.
The graph addresses the assertion "3rd parties don't sell on Wii" rhetoric. It's purpose is not to address quality, average sales, or 360/PS3 combined sales.
The graph does exactly what is intended. Challenge the validity or source if you wish, but the message is clear.
Argh. Fail.
Graphs and statistics can still spin data in so many ways. If I remember correctly, this graph came from Nintendo's own press conference. You don't think they're going to choose the "right" charts and stats to show off to "prove their point"? Of course they are, and of course it's something the fanboys are going to copy and paste repeatedly, not being skeptical at all.
Of course, if MS or Sony did something similar, you know the reaction is going to be, "Oh, it's spin!" or something similar.
Scarab makes some excellent points. And again, I want to point out that this is using the whole "launch aligned" metric as well. I'm not saying that the graph is completely worthless or anything, but we should be skeptical. And saying, "Ohh, this is proof that 3rd parties don't sell on Wii" is just, again, just drinking their Kool-Aid.
You know Rooks, one thing I really don't like about your arguments is that you go back to the "fanboy" well anytime something runs against your belief.
As I said on the last page, you can doubt the validity or the source of the numbers of the graph all you want, but its intent, which is to assert that the Wii has sold more software than the 360 in the same time, is properly displayed in this graph. It does exactly what it is intended to do; display that the allegation (the allegation, may I point out, which is perpetuated by the fanboys that you so ardently abhor) that third parties don't sell on Wii. Whether or not it displays it as launch aligned is irrelevant; the Wii, even in that graph, has been on a sharp incline since that date.
As for Sony and Microsoft, I think even you would agree that both get cute with numbers that don't favor them (two specific examples, Sony making confusing mathematic comparisons to prop up the performance of the PS3 in December, or MS completely ignoring the Wii AND the total units its sold in the month in their latest PR statements, which would denote that they are being outsold in Raw 3rd party units, instead beating the Wii in revenue which is what they focus on). Nintendo doesn't need to do this because the numbers DO favour them. There is no need to be creative with numbers when you're ahead.
So you want MS to bow down and hail the mighty Wii in their press release?
How did you possible determine that from what I posted? The purpose of PR is to frame what you're promoting in the best possible light. What i'm indicating by that post is that MS can't do this in a RAW comparison with the Wii (except for 3rd party Revenue generation, which is what they focus on) while Sony doesn't mention EITHER console as direct comparisons will frame the PS3 in a bad light, shy of combining the "Playstation family". Nintendo doesn't have to do these things (The Wii era Nintendo anyway, it was a common practice in the GC gen) because their numbers look good against any competitor. Hence, the graph that started this conversation in the first place.
DeaconKnowledge on
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I think your definition of "stagnate" needs work.
Anyway, there was a price drop for the 360 last year, I think around the August time frame. Basically in time for the holidays, similar to this year.
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There was a Halo 3 last year.
So when is Nintendo buying... Um, everything and everybody? I mean, we might as well start practice kneeling and using the SMB theme for the global anthem, no?
Also, PS3 being down in comparison to 2007 is... Yow.
It will be very interesting to hear if the stores were cleared out. If there are many Wiis left we'll get a price cut in the first half of 2009 I guess.
EDIT: OK I have work in eight and a half hours get away from the keyboardgetawaygetaway!
The graph addresses the "3rd parties don't sell on Wii" rhetoric. Its purpose is not to address quality, average sales, or 360/PS3 combined sales.
The graph does exactly what is intended. Challenge the validity or source if you wish, but the message is clear.
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(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Let me tell you about Demon's Souls....
Yeah, that makes no sense. So we should combine the lines of PS2/PSP/Wii ports also then?
360 sales were definitely stagnating earlier this year, but since the price drop, they seem to have gone up a decent amount. It'll be interesting to see if the system continues to sell well in the first half of 2009 or if sales start to stagnate again.
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Indeed. And if someone tries to argue that Wii is currently having poor 3rd party sales, then X360, supposed 3rd party haven, had poor 3rd party sales for first two years.
Animal Crossing - 3566 5318 4585/2492 7891 0383 Deacon/Akisha in Crayon
This is for August 2008 I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii 3rd party games sold more than 360 3rd party games in December because of the extra Wii sales, and I think that the people who own a Wii are more likely to buy games as a Christmas presents than possibly with some other consoles.
Don't do this. A 'shooter' is such a vague classification.
Maddens involves guns? Man, I clearly got the less exciting verson.
Edit: Ruh roh, I was looking at yearly sales, ignore.
Argh. Fail.
Graphs and statistics can still spin data in so many ways. If I remember correctly, this graph came from Nintendo's own press conference. You don't think they're going to choose the "right" charts and stats to show off to "prove their point"? Of course they are, and of course it's something the fanboys are going to copy and paste repeatedly, not being skeptical at all.
Of course, if MS or Sony did something similar, you know the reaction is going to be, "Oh, it's spin!" or something similar.
Scarab makes some excellent points. And again, I want to point out that this is using the whole "launch aligned" metric as well. I'm not saying that the graph is completely worthless or anything, but we should be skeptical. And saying, "Ohh, this is proof that 3rd parties don't sell on Wii" is just, again, just drinking their Kool-Aid.
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10 million Wii sold all year, 4 million sold in just November and December, Oh-so-close to 5 million when you include October. Between Oct-Dec, Wii Fit = 2.183 million.
.............Damn!
I guess it's no surprise why.
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Yes. Why split the platforms in this way? Many third party developers design a game from day one to be as cross platform as possible. Unless a manufacturer enters into an exclusivity deal in which case they will cover the lost profits and/or provide marketing funds there is no reason to limit yourself to one console.
Nintendo is answering the question 'do third parties sell on Wii', well the answer is clearly yes, was anyone really suggesting they were not? The point is that they are selling less in comparison to the competition, and in this market it is entirely fair and correct to combine a lot of the PS3 and 360 sales into one larger 'opposition' pot. Because when Ubisoft makes Farcry 2, they put it on PS3, on 360 and PC and sell to a larger market than if it was just on Wii.
Of course, you can go the Activision or whatever route and port to everything, in which case it makes the whole discussion moot. Each platform has anomalies and each has trends.
The point is that the Nintendo graph is implying that they sell the most third party software, but they have almost done the reverse of the 'Playstation family' argument by dividing a cross-platform base in the 360 and PS3 into two separate and smaller figures, when in the real world a third party would combine them into one marketshare, which is broadly speaking accurate.
I remember Epic saying how porting Unreal Tournament 3 from the Ps3 to the 360 was incredibly easy. Clearly they had deals which delayed their efforts. Moreso, while the PC market is inquantifiable because NPD no longer tracks it as accurately, it is global and large. And shares similar architecture with the PS360 base, thus adding to the market.
My point being this : That Nintendo graph is displaying one piece of information. The third party sales on each console. But I was saying that it was misleading, which it is. It does not take into account the homogenous nature of the Ps3 and the 360 in terms of development and game releases, and it also discounts a large PC market which, again, is tired intrinsically to the 360 and Ps3 markets - which combined are larger.
The graph says nothing other than giving figures out of context and misleading.
Numbers were from NPD, and they have been verified correct.
The data being presented was never in question. The method in which it is presented is what we call 'spin'.
Otherwise it would just be 'lying'.
Certain unnamed posters have suggested this multiple times this year.
Year to date stuff provided in August 2008 by NPD through Pachter show the Wii third party sales as pretty close to 360 third party sales. Now that the Wii total over the 360 is getting higher, the third party sales should become much better for the Wii compared to the 360 unless Wii owners just stop buying games.
And the graph also shows that 3rd party sales are growing in much faster pace than its competitors sales.
I'm pretty sure that unless it was ironically said or in jest, noone ever said third parties don't sell on Wii. Unless they were inferring by comparison to other consoles the notion that third party game sales on Wii were nonexistent is beyond retarded. I'd love some quotes on your points though.
Because the Wii install base is growing at a much faster pace than its competitors.
You know Rooks, one thing I really don't like about your arguments is that you go back to the "fanboy" well anytime something runs against your belief.
As I said on the last page, you can doubt the validity or the source of the numbers of the graph all you want, but its intent, which is to assert that the Wii has sold more software than the 360 in the same time, is properly displayed in this graph. It does exactly what it is intended to do; display that the allegation (the allegation, may I point out, which is perpetuated by the fanboys that you so ardently abhor) that third parties don't sell on Wii. Whether or not it displays it as launch aligned is irrelevant; the Wii, even in that graph, has been on a sharp incline since that date.
As for Sony and Microsoft, I think even you would agree that both get cute with numbers that don't favor them (two specific examples, Sony making confusing mathematic comparisons to prop up the performance of the PS3 in December, or MS completely ignoring the Wii AND the total units its sold in the month in their latest PR statements, which would denote that they are being outsold in Raw 3rd party units, instead beating the Wii in revenue which is what they focus on). Nintendo doesn't need to do this because the numbers DO favour them. There is no need to be creative with numbers when you're ahead.
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As others have pointed out, the data is certainly factual. But folks are treating as if the Nintendo analysis is canon. It's not. It's merely one way, and obviously biased at that.
As I've said before, plenty of skepticism is heaped on other company's presentations. Yet, Nintendo always seems to get a "free pass". That is fanboyism.
EDIT:
@Deacon - And yes, I go back to "fanboy" quite often because that's frankly, what I see a lot here. Which is fine, because a lot of people have admitted their biases. Just don't be surprised when myself, and others, who try to be a bit more objective, are more skeptical about something that comes from a company's press release verbatim.
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So you want MS to bow down and hail the mighty Wii in their press release?
No, if you disagree then explain why. And not by ad hominem arguments.
[edit]
Again, explain what is wrong with their analysis.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Indeed. Microsoft stopped using 3rd party sales numbers during first months of last year, going instead for revenue. That happened immediately after Wii started to sell more* 3rd party software.
* This was clear after both Nintendo and Microsoft gave 3rd party profit numbers for same month. When both numbers were divided with their respective consoles typical retail price (60 vs 50 bucks), Nintendo was far ahead.
I never made any mention of the analysis.
As I said twice before; challenge the source or the validity all you want, but the intent of the graph is clear.
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I still haven't seen anything to prove that Wii software sales are unacceptable to third parties, which was what you implied.
Holy hell. It's fucking obvious they're going to choose charts that make them look better, but choosing to totally dismiss the chart as you guys seem to be doing is disingenuous, I think. Part of the reason people post the chart is because we don't have any other convenient sources for LTD or YTD Third-Party sales.
Obviously it doesn't provide a complete comparison between Wii Third-Party and 360 sales but it has its' uses. Until we have more complete data at our hands, we work with what we have.
It is great to see that you have self-irony. I wonder why we never heard you comment on Microsoft PR-spins and criticizing them. To be blunt, you are one of the biggest Microsoft billboard around, your bias is pretty clear, and you shouldn't have any nerve to call others fanboys.
How did you possible determine that from what I posted? The purpose of PR is to frame what you're promoting in the best possible light. What i'm indicating by that post is that MS can't do this in a RAW comparison with the Wii (except for 3rd party Revenue generation, which is what they focus on) while Sony doesn't mention EITHER console as direct comparisons will frame the PS3 in a bad light, shy of combining the "Playstation family". Nintendo doesn't have to do these things (The Wii era Nintendo anyway, it was a common practice in the GC gen) because their numbers look good against any competitor. Hence, the graph that started this conversation in the first place.
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