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Video Game Sales Thread: December thread over, go use the new one

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    mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    The good news for Microsoft is that the competition for their primary revenue stream is more expensive than them.

    The bad news is that they may stick to their old Microsoft as opposed to updating to Windows 7 if they don't see the value in doing so. Windows 7 is much better than Vista, but I still have a hard time seeing how to market its' differences well.

    mynameisguido on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    The good news for Microsoft is that the competition for their primary revenue stream is more expensive than them.

    The bad news is that they may stick to their old Microsoft as opposed to updating to Windows 7 if they don't see the value in doing so. Windows 7 is much better than Vista, but I still have a hard time seeing how to market its' differences well.

    Compare Vista to ME and Windows 7 to XP while treating all of the retarded Mac ads about Vista as fact so they can claim that Windows 7 is awesome.

    Couscous on
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    JCRooksJCRooks Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    More potentially bad news: Microsoft is exploring job cuts.
    In a rare move, the higher ups at Microsoft are contemplating widespread job cuts as a reaction to the ongoing economic upheaval, reports the Wall Street Journal.

    "Microsoft Corp. is seriously exploring significant work force reductions," says the financial paper of note in a report published this morning. The Journal believes the firm's official plans could be revealed "as early as next week."

    The Journal fails to specify just how many people could be let go or which divisions would see the hits. Instead, the focus of the piece seems to be on illustrating the immensity and widespread damage caused by the current U.S. financial situation.

    The Journal almost seems stunned that Microsoft -- a firm the report labels "one of the steadiest ships in the technology industry" -- would be forced to lay people off.

    Our readers will recall similarly bleak news from Reuters regarding key Microsoft competitor Sony mere days ago.

    http://blog.wired.com/games/2009/01/wsj-job-cuts-po.html

    I hope Rooks is doing okay.

    When Google is laying people off (and this is full-time folks, not contractors), yes, the economy is in the shits. :)

    That said, MS is admittedly very bulky. It happens when you have a global workforce of 90k+ and arms in so many different businesses. Some inside the company have been saying that "trimming the fat" would actually be a good thing. Another thing to consider is that people leave MS all the time, due to attrition (poor performance) and just folks moving on to other jobs. So just by not hiring, it's almost akin to layoffs. And finally, we have tons of contractor positions here. Sadly for them, one thing we can do is lay off (or not hire) those spots instead, and save full-time employees.

    Obviously I'm biased, but I do think jobs in divisions that are showing growth and making money, are safe. Fortunately, my group is in that position. (And yes, what's important is current revenue/profit, not already sunk costs) But I don't want to jinx anything, and I've probably said too much already! (There are some interesting blogs though that I could point people towards, if they are interested ...)

    We'll know for sure next week when MS announces earnings (the 22nd). (And yeah, I mistakenly thought it was yesterday ... it isn't)

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    GuekGuek Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Couscous wrote: »
    The good news for Microsoft is that the competition for their primary revenue stream is more expensive than them.

    The bad news is that they may stick to their old Microsoft as opposed to updating to Windows 7 if they don't see the value in doing so. Windows 7 is much better than Vista, but I still have a hard time seeing how to market its' differences well.

    Compare Vista to ME and Windows 7 to XP while treating all of the retarded Mac ads about Vista as fact so they can claim that Windows 7 is awesome.

    Well saying Vista is akin to ME isn't really all that fair, since nothing but a screaming vortex of the damned souls of hell could really be metaphoric for that pile of satanic feces.

    But yeah, the situation might be analogous :P

    Guek on
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    BTPBTP Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Average Weeks of Ownership:

    Wii: 43.5 (March 5, 2008)
    PS3: 49.5 (January 23, 2008)
    X360: 71.1 (August 25, 2007)

    Also, from my January copy of Game Informer: Number of titles released launch to date (ESRB)
    Wii - 859
    360 - 686
    PS3 - 394

    The Wii has 859 games!??!? Whoa. I mean, I knew there was a lot of shovelware, but WHOA.

    There's no way that's entirely retail. It can't be. That has to be including downloadable games as well.

    If I'm wrong, 3rd parties need to get their heads out of their asses with all the bitching about poor sales and wrong demographics and whatnot.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    BTP wrote: »
    Average Weeks of Ownership:

    Wii: 43.5 (March 5, 2008)
    PS3: 49.5 (January 23, 2008)
    X360: 71.1 (August 25, 2007)

    Also, from my January copy of Game Informer: Number of titles released launch to date (ESRB)
    Wii - 859
    360 - 686
    PS3 - 394

    The Wii has 859 games!??!? Whoa. I mean, I knew there was a lot of shovelware, but WHOA.

    There's no way that's entirely retail. It can't be. That has to be including downloadable games as well.

    If I'm wrong, 3rd parties need to get their heads out of their asses with all the bitching about poor sales and wrong demographics and whatnot.
    The ESRB website shows 895 Wii games, 434 PS3 games, and 712 360 games rated. This includes the downloadable games.

    Couscous on
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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    True, the Wii might have a bit of an advantage on the downloadable games thanks to their (formerly) busy activity on the virtual console, but even without them they seem to be in the same range as the 360, which has been out for a year longer.

    cloudeagle on
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    The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Couscous wrote: »
    The good news for Microsoft is that the competition for their primary revenue stream is more expensive than them.

    The bad news is that they may stick to their old Microsoft as opposed to updating to Windows 7 if they don't see the value in doing so. Windows 7 is much better than Vista, but I still have a hard time seeing how to market its' differences well.

    Compare Vista to ME and Windows 7 to XP while treating all of the retarded Mac ads about Vista as fact so they can claim that Windows 7 is awesome.

    Yep. It's pretty funny that the best ads Microsoft could run for Windows 7 are the Apple ads for OSX that slam Vista.

    I've tinkered with the W7 beta and I gotta say, it is the new XP. I never perceived Vista in that way.

    The_Scarab on
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    JCRooksJCRooks Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    True, the Wii might have a bit of an advantage on the downloadable games thanks to their (formerly) busy activity on the virtual console, but even without them they seem to be in the same range as the 360, which has been out for a year longer.

    I'm guessing that it has to be Virtual Console titles, which is a lot.

    Hmm, that chart then is a bit misleading just by itself, since we know that not all games are equal. Sure, there's retail versus downloadable games, but I'd even argue that Virtual Console titles (backcatalog games) needs to be seperated from WiiWare (new games).

    To a user, it may not matter too much. But to potential publishers and developers, knowing what the split is would be good to know.

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    pslong9pslong9 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    JCRooks wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    True, the Wii might have a bit of an advantage on the downloadable games thanks to their (formerly) busy activity on the virtual console, but even without them they seem to be in the same range as the 360, which has been out for a year longer.

    I'm guessing that it has to be Virtual Console titles, which is a lot.

    Hmm, that chart then is a bit misleading just by itself, since we know that not all games are equal. Sure, there's retail versus downloadable games, but I'd even argue that Virtual Console titles (backcatalog games) needs to be seperated from WiiWare (new games).

    To a user, it may not matter too much. But to potential publishers and developers, knowing what the split is would be good to know.

    I believe all VC games have to be rated by the ESRB, so looking at the number of reviews on vc-reviews.com and removing the Euro-only titles, that's 275 Wii titles that should be removed from CousCous's number. That would put the Wii total at a little over 600 (from CousCous ESRB number) or below 600 (from DMK's number), and that seems a lot more reasonable to me.

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    GuekGuek Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    dunno if this has been posted yet
    Top 20 Games of December 2008

    1. WII PLAY W/ REMOTE WII NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    2. CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR* 360 ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    3. WII FIT WII NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    4. MARIO KART WII NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    5. GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* WII ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    6. GEARS OF WAR 2* 360 MICROSOFT
    7. LEFT 4 DEAD 360 ELECTRONIC ARTS
    8. MARIO KART NDS NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    9. CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR PS3 ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    10. ANIMAL CROSSING: CITY FOLK* WII NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    11. WII MUSIC WII NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    12. NEW SUPER MARIO BROS NDS NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    13. PERSONAL TRAINER: COOKING NDS NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    14. FALLOUT 3* 360 BETHESDA SOFTWORKS
    15. CLUB PENGUIN: ELITE PENGUIN FORCE NDS DISNEY INTERACTIVE STUDIOS
    16. LINK'S CROSSBOW TRAINING WII NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    17. GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* PS2 ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    18. MADDEN NFL 09* 360 ELECTRONIC ARTS
    19. CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR WII ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    20. SHAUN WHITE SNOWBOARDING: ROAD TRIP WII UBISOFT

    Top 10 Wii Games

    1. WII WII PLAY W/ REMOTE NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    2. WII WII FIT NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    3. WII MARIO KART NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    4. WII GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    5. WII ANIMAL CROSSING: CITY FOLK* NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    6. WII WII MUSIC NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    7. WII LINK'S CROSSBOW TRAINING NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    8. WII CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    9. WII SHAUN WHITE SNOWBOARDING: ROAD TRIP UBISOFT
    10. WII NERF N STRIKE ELECTRONIC ARTS

    Top 10 Xbox 360 Games

    1. 360 CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR* ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    2. 360 GEARS OF WAR 2* MICROSOFT
    3. 360 LEFT 4 DEAD ELECTRONIC ARTS
    4. 360 FALLOUT 3* BETHESDA SOFTWORKS
    5. 360 MADDEN NFL 09* ELECTRONIC ARTS
    6. 360 GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    7. 360 MORTAL KOMBAT VS. DC UNIVERSE* MIDWAY
    8. 360 ROCK BAND 2* MTV GAMES/ELECTRONIC ARTS
    9. 360 FABLE II* MICROSOFT
    10. 360 PRINCE OF PERSIA* UBISOFT

    Top 10 PlayStation 2 Games

    1. PS2 GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    2. PS2 MADDEN NFL 09 ELECTRONIC ARTS
    3. PS2 KINGDOM HEARTS RE: CHAIN OF MEMORIES SQUARE ENIX INC
    4. PS2 WWE SMACKDOWN VS. RAW 2009 THQ
    5. PS2 ROCK BAND* MTV GAMES/ELECTRONIC ARTS
    6. PS2 ACTION/ADVENTURE BUNDLE MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTURER
    7. PS2 SONIC UNLEASHED SEGA OF AMERICA
    8. PS2 LEGO BATMAN WARNER INTERACTIVE
    9. PS2 CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR FINAL FRONTS ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    10. PS2 GUITAR HERO AEROSMITH* ACTIVISION BLIZZARD

    Top 10 PlayStation 3 Games

    1. PS3 CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    2. PS3 MORTAL KOMBAT VS. DC UNIVERSE* MIDWAY
    3. PS3 LITTLE BIG PLANET SONY
    4. PS3 PRINCE OF PERSIA* UBISOFT
    5. PS3 GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    6. PS3 RESISTANCE 2* SONY
    7. PS3 MADDEN NFL 09* ELECTRONIC ARTS
    8. PS3 FALLOUT 3* BETHESDA SOFTWORKS
    9. PS3 ROCK BAND 2* MTV GAMES/ELECTRONIC ARTS
    10. PS3 NEED FOR SPEED: UNDERCOVER ELECTRONIC ARTS

    Top 10 Game Boy Advance Games

    1. GBA ACTION/ADVENTURE BUNDLE MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTURER
    2. GBA YAHTZEE/PAYDAY/GAME OF LIFE DESTINATION SOFTWARE INC.
    3. GBA HOT WHEELS: ALL OUT DESTINATION SOFTWARE INC.
    4. GBA RISK/BATTLESHIP/CLUE DESTINATION SOFTWARE INC.
    5. GBA UNO 52 DESTINATION SOFTWARE INC.
    6. GBA DISNEY PRINCESS: ROYAL ADVENTURE DISNEY INTERACTIVE STUDIOS
    7. GBA PUPPY LUV: SPA & RESORT ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    8. GBA DISNEY'S ENCHANTED DISNEY INTERACTIVE STUDIOS
    9. GBA DISNEY'S LITTLE MERMAID: MAGIC IN TWO KINGDOMS DISNEY INTERACTIVE STUDIOS
    10. GBA MOUSETRAP/OPERATION/SIMON DESTINATION SOFTWARE INC.

    Top 10 Nintendo DS Games

    1. NDS MARIO KART NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    2. NDS NEW SUPER MARIO BROS NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    3. NDS PERSONAL TRAINER: COOKING NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    4. NDS CLUB PENGUIN: ELITE PENGUIN FORCE DISNEY INTERACTIVE STUDIOS
    5. NDS KIRBY SUPER STAR ULTRA NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    6. NDS POKEMON RANGER: SHADOWS OF ALMIA NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    7. NDS BRAIN AGE 2: MORE TRAINING IN MINUTES A DAY NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    8. NDS MARIO PARTY NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    9. NDS GUITAR HERO ON TOUR DECADES* ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    10. NDS BRAIN AGE: TRAIN YOUR BRAIN IN MINUTES A DAY NINTENDO OF AMERICA

    Top 10 PSP Games

    1. PSP MADDEN NFL 09 ELECTRONIC ARTS
    2. PSP WWE SMACKDOWN VS. RAW 2009 THQ
    3. PSP LEGO BATMAN WARNER INTERACTIVE
    4. PSP MIDNIGHT CLUB: LA REMIX TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE
    5. PSP STAR WARS: THE FORCE UNLEASHED LUCASARTS
    6. PSP IRON MAN SEGA OF AMERICA
    7. PSP NEED FOR SPEED: UNDERCOVER ELECTRONIC ARTS
    8. PSP NBA LIVE 09 ELECTRONIC ARTS
    9. PSP GRAND THEFT AUTO: LIBERTY CITY STORIES TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE
    10. PSP GRAND THEFT AUTO: VICE CITY STORIES TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE

    Top 10 Accessories

    1. WII NUNCHUK CONTROLLER NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    2. WII REMOTE CONTROLLER W/ JACKET NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    3. WII REMOTE CONTROLLER NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    4. PS3 DUALSHOCK 3 WIRELESS CONTROLLER SONY
    5. WII CHARGE STATION NYKO
    6. WII WHEEL GRIP NINTENDO OF AMERICA
    7. WII PERFECT SHOT GUN GRIP NYKO
    8. 360 LIVE 12 MONTH GOLD CARD MICROSOFT
    9. 360 WIRELESS CONTROLLER MICROSOFT
    10. 360 WIRELESS CONTROLLER BLACK MICROSOFT

    link

    Guek on
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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Sweet merciful crap, that's a lot of Wii games. All but one of the Wii's top 10 were in the overall top 20.

    cloudeagle on
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    GuekGuek Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    no guitar hero on HD consoles in the top 20...guffaw

    Guek on
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    Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Going back to the earlier conversation momentarily.....dear lord, I can't believe Mario Kart DS is still hanging in the top ten!!!!

    Ok, it's out of my system. :D

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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    New Super Mario Bros. and Link's Crossbow Training made surprise reappearances.

    As did both GTA games for the PSP. They look to have ongoing legs, short they may be.

    cloudeagle on
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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    New Super Mario Bros. and Link's Crossbow Training made surprise reappearances.

    As did both GTA games for the PSP. They look to have ongoing legs, short they may be.

    Bleed over from the release of GTAIV, perhaps? 'Hey! That reminds me that I haven't played them yet.'

    Santa Claustrophobia on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Heh, Personal Trainer Cooking at 3rd best on the DS! Having experienced it I have to say it deserves it despite, y'know, not being a game. It's a great little piece of software.

    UncleSporky on
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    JCRooksJCRooks Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Guek wrote: »
    no guitar hero on HD consoles in the top 20...guffaw

    Different demographics? Everyone I know who bought Rock Band 2 for the 360 or PS3 got in soon after it was released, not months afterwards. Total sales would be interesting, not to mention amount spent on DLC.

    Anyway, Wii Play, Wii Fit, and arguably Mario Kart Wii are almost like pack-ins now. I wonder what percentage of new Wii owners buy those products, either immediately or a month or two down the line? A large amount, I imagine, which means they'll remain at the top of the chart until we start to see Wii sales dip. It'll be interesting to see if Wii Music and Animal Crossing joins that team. I do find it sad (and perhaps telling) that games like Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess have not.

    As for the 360 and PS3 lists, although there's certainly a lot of variety to the games library these days (I have a number of JRPGs sitting on my shelf), this list still shows that shooters sell. That's certainly not going to change any time soon, and perhaps that's just fine. Casual games (like Lips, Banjo-Kazooie, etc.) are not going to be mainstays on the top 10 list like they are with Nintendo. This is converse with Nintendo, where casual (or Nintendo-developed) titles will be at the top and more traditional/hardcore fare will likely not chart at all. I guess we'll see if that holds true over the year, with games like Mad World coming out.

    I also think it's telling that (flame suit on), the vast majority of the 360 and PS3 games are multi-platform and 3rd party. If you succeed, you can do rather well. High risk, high reward. However, it's clear that the top dog with Wii and DS games is Nintendo itself. Certainly there's still room for success, and you certainly don't need to be a "top 10 title" to not be a failure, but it does seem to imply that the high rewards aren't there. It's no surprise that 3rd party developers like 2K are complaining that it's too crowded at the middle and bottom.

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    Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Proof that you don't need to be top ten, but sell well enough to merit a sequel: Boom Blox.


    yay! :D

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    Dr Mario KartDr Mario Kart Games Dealer Austin, TXRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I'm only seeing two EASTERN 3rd party publishers on the entirety of those top 10 lists.

    Square-Enix with Chain of Memories for PS2 at #3
    Sega with Iron Man for PSP at #6

    Dr Mario Kart on
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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I'm only seeing two EASTERN 3rd party publishers on the entirety of those top 10 lists.

    Square-Enix with Chain of Memories for PS2 at #3
    Sega with Iron Man for PSP at #6

    You're right. And Iron Man was made by a western dev, if I recall.

    Aside from Nintendo (and to a lesser extent, Sony... then again most of their first-party stuff is western-made nowadays) Japanese publishers have really lost a huge amount of influence over here. Didn't really strike me how much until you pointed that out.

    Any word on how Banjo did? I want to know how depressed I should get.

    Interesting as well that Lips didn't do great, but I don't remember seeing many ads for it.

    cloudeagle on
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    The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Someone give me a rough guestimate on Dead Space LTD across all platforms, if we have one.

    The_Scarab on
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    spamfilterspamfilter Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    If you assume Nintendo's press release of 20 of the top 30 is true, and you assume that MKvDC 360 sold more than MKvDC PS3 (reasonable since 360 version sell better than ps3 versions of multiplatform). Then the best LBP could have done is #31.

    That means the best case scenario for Sony is 2 PS3 games in the top 30.

    spamfilter on
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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Even given the spread between the 360 and the PS3, you'd expect the PS3 would have something in the top 30.

    Then again the tie ratio for the PS3 is pretty low.

    cloudeagle on
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    JCRooksJCRooks Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    I'm only seeing two EASTERN 3rd party publishers on the entirety of those top 10 lists.

    Square-Enix with Chain of Memories for PS2 at #3
    Sega with Iron Man for PSP at #6

    You're right. And Iron Man was made by a western dev, if I recall.

    Aside from Nintendo (and to a lesser extent, Sony... then again most of their first-party stuff is western-made nowadays) Japanese publishers have really lost a huge amount of influence over here. Didn't really strike me how much until you pointed that out.

    Any word on how Banjo did? I want to know how depressed I should get.

    Interesting as well that Lips didn't do great, but I don't remember seeing many ads for it.

    It's going to be very difficult to gauge how games like Banjo and Lips did unless we see an all-formats chart for the top 50 or so. The top 20 list, especially for December, is filled with so many system staples and new games. For example, Fable II, which is easily going to be more popular and better selling than Banjo and Lips, still made only #9 on the 360 chart. Where those games end up ... whether it's merely #11 or much lower, who knows? (Granted, I can probably ask questions and find out, but obviously can't share it with anyone else)

    <sarcasm>Man, if only Nintendo sold fewer games, we'd be able to better see where non-AAA titles show up on the chart ...</sarcasm> :)

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    ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    toxk_02 wrote: »
    Heyo, so here are the prediction results:


    ArcSyn - 1167000
    plufim - 1486000
    lowlylowlycook - 1491000
    chasm - 1875000
    Unco-ordinated - 1986000
    Cullen - 1989000
    JCRooks - 2036000
    bigwah - 2470000
    Sheep - 2636000
    cloudeagle - 3636000


    Congrats to ArcSyn, he dominated where it counted. Was within 200k of the Wii, had the closest NDS prediction and called the 360 within 2,000 units. Overall it looks like the biggest surprise was the NDS which is kinda amusing. DS was the worst prediction for half of the participants.

    I'm pages late to respond to this, but WOO! That is hilarious how close I was to the 360! I was really starting to worry about my numbers when the pros started with over 3mil for the Wii.

    ArcSyn on
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    More fuel for the flame god:

    http://kotaku.com/5133085/microsoft-peddling-add+ons-works-for-us

    Sony recently called out Microsoft and Nintendo for having consoles that require add-ons in order to offer the total package. Now Xbox 360 group PR manager David Dennis responds, and fires right back.

    Speaking to Edge, Dennis offered his response to Sony's add-on peddling claims, much like Xbox 360 group product manager Andrew Greenberg did during CES, only a bit more pointedly now that NPD numbers have been released.
    "Our strategy from the beginning was to have multiple SKUs with a very flexible offering so the customer can choose the experience that they want. If you don't need a hard drive, you're not forced to have one. If you don't need Wi-Fi, you're not forced to pay for one."
    Well that certainly makes a fair amount of sense, didn't it? But adressing the issue just wasn't enough. Dennis went on to fire a shot back across Sony's bow.
    "The strategy of having a console that is $200 more expensive that has features that people don't potentially need or want but have to pay for—looking at [Sony's] sales numbers—I'd say it's probably not the winning strategy at this point, especially given the current economic situation."

    darleysam on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Third party titles in the top twenty:

    CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR* 360 ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    GEARS OF WAR 2* 360 MICROSOFT (I'm including this because it wasn't developed by MS)
    LEFT 4 DEAD 360 ELECTRONIC ARTS
    FALLOUT 3* 360 BETHESDA SOFTWORKS
    MADDEN NFL 09* 360 ELECTRONIC ARTS

    CLUB PENGUIN: ELITE PENGUIN FORCE NDS DISNEY INTERACTIVE STUDIOS

    CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR WII ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* WII ACTIVISION BLIZZARD
    SHAUN WHITE SNOWBOARDING: ROAD TRIP WII UBISOFT

    CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR PS3 ACTIVISION BLIZZARD

    GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* PS2 ACTIVISION BLIZZARD

    Couscous on
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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    darleysam wrote: »
    More fuel for the flame god:

    http://kotaku.com/5133085/microsoft-peddling-add+ons-works-for-us

    Sony recently called out Microsoft and Nintendo for having consoles that require add-ons in order to offer the total package. Now Xbox 360 group PR manager David Dennis responds, and fires right back.

    Speaking to Edge, Dennis offered his response to Sony's add-on peddling claims, much like Xbox 360 group product manager Andrew Greenberg did during CES, only a bit more pointedly now that NPD numbers have been released.
    "Our strategy from the beginning was to have multiple SKUs with a very flexible offering so the customer can choose the experience that they want. If you don't need a hard drive, you're not forced to have one. If you don't need Wi-Fi, you're not forced to pay for one."
    Well that certainly makes a fair amount of sense, didn't it? But adressing the issue just wasn't enough. Dennis went on to fire a shot back across Sony's bow.
    "The strategy of having a console that is $200 more expensive that has features that people don't potentially need or want but have to pay for—looking at [Sony's] sales numbers—I'd say it's probably not the winning strategy at this point, especially given the current economic situation."

    Yeowch. Then again, some of those add-ons, like WiFi, are really freakin' expensive. Then again again, Sony never did release a WiFi adapter for those seven people who managed to buy the mythical 20GB PS3.

    Speaking of add-ons, here's hoping my request for a 360 data migration cable I put in for the 60GB drive I bought goes through.

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    What sales info do we have for the games outside of the top 10? I want to know how well the bottom games in the top 20 can have expected to sold.

    Couscous on
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    LunkerLunker Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    It's sad and yet not unexpected to see Prince of Persia's glorious return swept under the sales rug yet again. Following in the footsteps of Sands of Time, unfortunately. :( Though I'm part of the problem since I haven't bought it yet either, though I'm dying to—lack of funds is killing me.

    Lunker on
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    pslong9pslong9 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    JCRooks wrote: »

    Different demographics? Everyone I know who bought Rock Band 2 for the 360 or PS3 got in soon after it was released, not months afterwards. Total sales would be interesting, not to mention amount spent on DLC.

    Well, that's true for whoever bought RB2 for Wii as well, since it was released on Dec. 22nd. Stupid, stupid Harmonix. But yes, different demographics would account for the differences in the GH placements by console. We've seen other examples of 360/PS3 games being front-loaded and Wii games having longer sales arcs, so this isn't too surprising.

    Anyway, Wii Play, Wii Fit, and arguably Mario Kart Wii are almost like pack-ins now. I wonder what percentage of new Wii owners buy those products, either immediately or a month or two down the line? A large amount, I imagine, which means they'll remain at the top of the chart until we start to see Wii sales dip. It'll be interesting to see if Wii Music and Animal Crossing joins that team. I do find it sad (and perhaps telling) that games like Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess have not.

    Me too. But if you look at what's been marketed, Wii Music and Animal Crossing have been marketed recently. SMG and TP have not, and they haven't reached the same tie-in stage as Wii Play, Wii Fit, or MKWii. It's sad, especially for SMG, but I'm pretty sure the sales for SMG are still quite high.

    BTW, I don't think either Wii Music or Animal Crossing will stick like Wii Play / Fit / Mario Kart.
    As for the 360 and PS3 lists, although there's certainly a lot of variety to the games library these days (I have a number of JRPGs sitting on my shelf), this list still shows that shooters sell. That's certainly not going to change any time soon, and perhaps that's just fine. Casual games (like Lips, Banjo-Kazooie, etc.) are not going to be mainstays on the top 10 list like they are with Nintendo. This is converse with Nintendo, where casual (or Nintendo-developed) titles will be at the top and more traditional/hardcore fare will likely not chart at all. I guess we'll see if that holds true over the year, with games like Mad World coming out.

    I also think it's telling that (flame suit on), the vast majority of the 360 and PS3 games are multi-platform and 3rd party. If you succeed, you can do rather well. High risk, high reward. However, it's clear that the top dog with Wii and DS games is Nintendo itself. Certainly there's still room for success, and you certainly don't need to be a "top 10 title" to not be a failure, but it does seem to imply that the high rewards aren't there. It's no surprise that 3rd party developers like 2K are complaining that it's too crowded at the middle and bottom.

    I agree with both of these paragraphs. However, given the economic climate, I'm curious how many developers are willing to take on that high risk, especially if the game in question is not a shooter, RPG, or EA Sports game, simply because the sales for other genres on the 360 / PS3 don't seem to be as high (although I may be wrong when you take Live and PSN sales into account) and one poorly selling game seems to lead to a shut down studio very quickly.

    And 2K can piss off, they've published very little of quality on the Wii.

    I am glad to see that the top 10 Wii games are 40% 3rd party, though, even if one of them is Nerf NStrike...

    pslong9 on
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    Dr Mario KartDr Mario Kart Games Dealer Austin, TXRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Rock Band 2 Wii is ~150k and its not in the top 20.

    Dr Mario Kart on
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    BTPBTP Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    More fuel for the flame god:

    http://kotaku.com/5133085/microsoft-peddling-add+ons-works-for-us

    Sony recently called out Microsoft and Nintendo for having consoles that require add-ons in order to offer the total package. Now Xbox 360 group PR manager David Dennis responds, and fires right back.

    Speaking to Edge, Dennis offered his response to Sony's add-on peddling claims, much like Xbox 360 group product manager Andrew Greenberg did during CES, only a bit more pointedly now that NPD numbers have been released.
    "Our strategy from the beginning was to have multiple SKUs with a very flexible offering so the customer can choose the experience that they want. If you don't need a hard drive, you're not forced to have one. If you don't need Wi-Fi, you're not forced to pay for one."
    Well that certainly makes a fair amount of sense, didn't it? But adressing the issue just wasn't enough. Dennis went on to fire a shot back across Sony's bow.
    "The strategy of having a console that is $200 more expensive that has features that people don't potentially need or want but have to pay for—looking at [Sony's] sales numbers—I'd say it's probably not the winning strategy at this point, especially given the current economic situation."

    Yeowch. Then again, some of those add-ons, like WiFi, are really freakin' expensive. Then again again, Sony never did release a WiFi adapter for those seven people who managed to buy the mythical 20GB PS3.

    Speaking of add-ons, here's hoping my request for a 360 data migration cable I put in for the 60GB drive I bought goes through.

    Your comment about the PS3 and wi-fi made me check Wikipedia's article on the PS3.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ps3

    "Oh, my!" at the image that's up right now.
    It's not even an image.

    BTP on
    Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection & DS High Scores Thread
    I WILL NOT BE DOING 3DS FOR NWC THREAD. SOMEONE ELSE WILL HAVE TO TAKE OVER.
    Spoiler contains Friend Codes. Won't you be my friend?
    My Friend Codes!

    More Friend Codes!
    Mario Kart Wii: 3136-6982-0286 Tetris Party: 2364 1569 4310
    Guitar Hero: Metallica: 1032 7229 7191
    TATSUNOKO VS CAPCOM: 1935-2070-9123

    Nintendo DS:
    Worms: Open Warfare 2: 1418-7870-1606 Space Bust-a-Move: 017398 403043
    Scribblenauts: 1290-7509-5558
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    JCRooksJCRooks Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    pslong9 wrote: »
    Me too. But if you look at what's been marketed, Wii Music and Animal Crossing have been marketed recently. SMG and TP have not, and they haven't reached the same tie-in stage as Wii Play, Wii Fit, or MKWii. It's sad, especially for SMG, but I'm pretty sure the sales for SMG are still quite high.

    BTW, I don't think either Wii Music or Animal Crossing will stick like Wii Play / Fit / Mario Kart.

    No doubt the sales for SMG and TP are already quite high. Not trying to spin that they are somehow failures, not at all. I am just noting that new owners appear to be picking up different games instead.

    Your point about marketing is an excellent one. But that leads me to ask: How much marketing is Wii Play and Mario Kart Wii getting now? I still see ads for Wii Fit, Animal Crossing, and Wii Music. I guess I can understand Wii Play, since it's essentially controller + game. But Mario Kart? Again, my theory is that the wheel has a large part to play. I wonder if many new buyers treat the wheel in the same category as the Wii Fit mat ... something necessary for every owner.
    pslong9 wrote: »
    I agree with both of these paragraphs. However, given the economic climate, I'm curious how many developers are willing to take on that high risk, especially if the game in question is not a shooter, RPG, or EA Sports game, simply because the sales for other genres on the 360 / PS3 don't seem to be as high (although I may be wrong when you take Live and PSN sales into account) and one poorly selling game leads to shut down studio very quickly.

    It'll be very interesting to see what the state of the economy does regarding game development. I think after this particular holiday season, one could argue that there were just too many games, and hence, maybe too many developers? Sad, but probably true. The industry need some fat trimming at this point. This especially hard for me to say because I have friends in other game companies (some of which have closed).

    Will existing companies decide to "go safe"? Or will they try to really focus on polish and quality titles? (The best rises to the top, as we've seen if you merge the top 10 and the GOTY lists) Or will they just to stick to the current plan and try to ride things out? It'll be interesting to see.

    JCRooks on
    Xbox LIVE, Steam, Twitter, etc. ...
    Gamertag: Rooks
    - Don't add me, I'm at/near the friend limit :)

    Steam: JC_Rooks

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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Obviously, it is your duty to fix that error.

    Go make that image and post it up.

    Jragghen on
  • Options
    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Lunker wrote: »
    It's sad and yet not unexpected to see Prince of Persia's glorious return swept under the sales rug yet again. Following in the footsteps of Sands of Time, unfortunately. :( Though I'm part of the problem since I haven't bought it yet either, though I'm dying to—lack of funds is killing me.

    Seriously, I want to know how well both this and Dead Space have done. I don't hold out much hope for PoP though, after Eurogamer had a news story about the producer saying he expected the game to do better, and the comments section was filled with inane retard-spatter to the tune of "HURR MAKE A BETTER GAME" or "WAS TOO EASY AND GENERIC".

    I really, really hate people.

    darleysam on
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    Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    One thing Nintendo has always had going for them is word of mouth advertising, especially right now.

    Here is your average conversation that leads to Wii sales.

    "Hey, you getting a Wii this week?"

    "Yea, for the kids/myself/family/whatever. What should I get for it?"

    "That's easy, get WiiPlay, since it comes with an extra controller. Your wife will just love Wii Fit. Oh, also, Mario Kart, it's awesome, and you and your kids will love it!"

    *Conversations will vary, but you get the point.

    Brainiac 8 on
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    PSN - Brainiac_8
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/feature-can-ps3-catch-up-to-xbox-360/?biz=1&page=1
    Michael Pachter, Wedbush Morgan Securities
    Sony has two ways to increase sales: either they price competitively (that means at the same price as their competition), or they convince consumers that the higher price is justified by "must have" features.

    They don't seem inclined to price competitively, and the cost of production for the PS3 coupled with Sony's financial situation may preclude a price cut over the near term. I said I expected a price cut in April, but it's not clear (given the strong Yen) whether the company can afford to do so that early. It's entirely possible that they cut in June (E3), September (TGS), holiday, or not at all.

    If I'm right that they cannot afford to price competitively, that leaves them the alternative of educating consumers about the value proposition of the PS3. That strategy has its pitfalls, insofar as the feature set of the PS3 includes many expensive components that each appeal to only a minority of consumers. For example, Wi-Fi is great to have if you care to log on to PSN, but in reality, only a fraction of PS3 owners really care. (I know that they claim 17 million PSN members--maybe it's 14 million--but the truth is that most had to log on to download a system update, and joined while waiting). If there are only 17 million Xbox Live members out of 28 million, it is likely that only 60% of consumers have the desire to be online, and some of these would be happy to use a wired Internet connection. Sony asks consumers to pay for Wi-Fi whether they desire it or not. Similarly, they ask consumers to pay for a hard drive, which has value only if the purchaser intends to download content. Flash memory would suffice for most game saves, as Nintendo has proven with the Wii.

    Finally, the Blu-ray player feature is another "nice to have," but should only really appeal to HDTV households (maybe 30% of the market). I am certain that in 10 years, HDTV penetration will approach 100%, but at present, a large number of potential PS3 purchasers don't have HD, and don't perceive the need to pay for Blu-ray.

    That makes the education option extremely difficult. I think that they should do both (cut price and aggressively market the PS3 feature set), but am not optimistic that we'll see real traction from the latter this year. Rather, the immediate boost will come when they decide to cut price. I expect it this year, as soon as their cost structure permits a cut. My Monday note said April, and that is nothing more than a guess. It could come later, but it seems to me that it must come some time in 2009.

    With that said, I think that PS3 will sell well once competitively priced. The company has an insurmountable advantage in Japan, and an overall brand loyalty in Europe. Should they price at parity with Xbox 360 ($299), I think that PS3 sales would exceed 360 sales, and eventually, they could catch up. At present, it doesn't look like that is happening any time soon, so Sony should be prepared to remain in third place until well after they cut price.

    David Cole, DFC Intelligence
    I think yes, price cuts are key, and no, I would definitely not say the PS3 is destined to be in third place. Surveys have shown that even in 2008 the PlayStation 2 was still the most played console system. At its height, the PS2 was selling over 20 million units a year. It took the Xbox 360 nearly three years to reach what the PS2 was selling in its peak years. Sony still has that large fan base that has not yet upgraded to the current generation.

    However, I think Europe could be the biggest issue for the PS3. The PS2 was strong in Europe by really appealing to the casual mass market with products like Singstar, the EyeToy, etc. Both the Xbox 360 and the Nintendo Wii have followed that model that made the PS2 such a success in Europe. For many of those European PS2 owners looking to upgrade, the Xbox 360 and/or the Wii are simply more in tune with what they are accustomed to than the PS3. That is something SCE should look to change, but without more price equilibrium it becomes difficult.

    Jesse Divnich, EEDAR
    Sony must gain respect among the core market. This is evident as the sales of games that offer a strong online feature outperform on the Xbox 360 SKU when compared to the Xbox 360/PS3 hardware ratio. Of course, Home, Trophies, and more movie options will certainly help, but it will likely be a year before we see the full effect of their impact on sales.

    With Sony owning Blu-ray technology, they definitely have a long-term edge on the Xbox 360. Plus, Sony still has a ton of exclusives in the works that will surely drive sales in 2009, such as Uncharted 2 and God of War 3.

    Sony has a legitimate chance at catching up to the Xbox 360 within the next 2 years, but in terms of overtaking the Xbox 360, that is not likely for some time.

    Mike Hickey, Janco Partners
    We expect Sony will be aggressive in early '09, introducing a $300 "recession special" price point, in an effort to regain velocity at retail and capture market share. Ultimately, we expect Sony will continue to think long-term in terms of PS3 market share ranking, positioning their commentary relative to a console cycle that could last 10 years and Blu-ray technology that could eventually have meaningful relevance to the consumer.

    Colin Sebastian, Lazard Capital Markets
    Sony has a great console, some very impressive games, and the online service is starting to take shape. But at some point they also need to worry about market share. Pricing is clearly an important lever they can pull to drive additional share. Beyond that, they may also want to consider investing in more platform exclusive titles from third party developers, perhaps a slimmed down version of the hardware, and deepen the amount of non-game related content and services available through the network.

    Couscous on
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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    JCRooks wrote: »
    pslong9 wrote: »
    I agree with both of these paragraphs. However, given the economic climate, I'm curious how many developers are willing to take on that high risk, especially if the game in question is not a shooter, RPG, or EA Sports game, simply because the sales for other genres on the 360 / PS3 don't seem to be as high (although I may be wrong when you take Live and PSN sales into account) and one poorly selling game leads to shut down studio very quickly.

    It'll be very interesting to see what the state of the economy does regarding game development. I think after this particular holiday season, one could argue that there were just too many games, and hence, maybe too many developers? Sad, but probably true. The industry need some fat trimming at this point. This especially hard for me to say because I have friends in other game companies (some of which have closed).

    Will existing companies decide to "go safe"? Or will they try to really focus on polish and quality titles? (The best rises to the top, as we've seen if you merge the top 10 and the GOTY lists) Or will they just to stick to the current plan and try to ride things out? It'll be interesting to see.

    There have always been games that get swallowed up by the crush of other games in the market... remember how Beyond Good and Evil had a price drop in less than two months in 2003. The difference between then and now is that the economy could tolerate short-term losses better. Now that companies pretty much can't get short-term loans they need to keep going, failure will have much more dire consequences.

    I really do wonder if publishers will react to this by publishing less but better, or cutting game budgets.

    Edit: Those crazy analysts. There aren't sleeping hordes of PS2 owners patiently waiting years for a PS3 price drop, and if Sony touting the PS3's added features didn't work before, it sure as hell won't work now without a price drop.

    Though it's interesting that even Pachter has his doubts on a PS3 price drop next year.

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
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