Confession: The "other" confidence problem...

StudioZEL

It’s no secret that I’ve written and emo’ed about my lack of luck with women. On the internet, to my close friends, to my family, it’s probably the big thing that really gets me down (because otherwise I’m pretty satisfied with life at the moment). In the past, whenever I’ve talked to people about my problems with courting a woman, the vast majority of advice has centered around one prominent subject. Confidence.

“You don’t have enough confidence.”

“You should believe in yourself.”

“You should act more confident in yourself, because that’s what women respond to.”

I can see their point. I don’t act very confidently most of the time. But since I decided that this year I was going to repair myself mentally and physically, I tried to think about why I don’t act confidently. When I was a kid, I was very confident, sometimes to the point of cockiness. In later years, this dissipated, and I tried to figure out why. Was it because of my lack of experience with women? Not really, people aren’t born with experience with women, they gain it by being confident enough in themselves to woo them in the first place. Is it because I’m ugly? No, because I’m not ugly. Not studly, but hardly ugly or fat (most describe as handsome; while I would prefer “hot” or “sexy”, handsome is hardly an insult).

This morning, I was looking at myself in the mirror, when I had something of an epiphany. A moment of enlightenment, where I realized something incredible. Perhaps I didn’t realize it because I was in denial, even if only at a subconscious level.

I have the exact opposite problem that I and my friends thought I had.

The truth of the matter is that I’m hardly at a lack of confidence at all. The problem is the exact opposite of the lack of confidence.

Subconsciously, I have way too much confidence. I believe in myself and hold myself up on far too high a pedestal than I reasonably deserve. I believe I’m one of the best men out there, and that any woman would be lucky to date me. I believe my opinions are smarter, more valid than that of most people. I believe I am more deserving, more desirable than those “other” guys. I sometimes have dreams where I’ll do something rather mediocre like publish a book or artwork and have people worship me, doing interviews about how awesome I am etc. In short, I’m a cocky, arrogant jerk of a man. I always was, even when I was a kid.

The interesting part is why I don’t seem confident at all, despite all of this. The reason is that while I believe these things subconsciously, objectively I know these are all mostly false. I’m not better than other people, my opinions aren’t more valid than others. So my objective brain (the only I primarily use while I am, uh, awake) does everything it can to suppress my confidence. Because nobody likes an arrogant, cocky, holier-than-thou jerk right? I’d rather be on good terms with everyone and have everyone like me, so I should shelve the bastard right?

But then, women don't really like me now anyway, even when I suppress the arrogant bastard. And a lot of the time, I see over confident jerks actually succeeding in all aspects of life, especially with women. In this way, I sometimes think that maybe I should just be the arrogant, over confident bastard that I am, stop trying to be a good guy when I’m really not one at all. In that way I’d certainly be more “true to myself” than I am now right?

People say “But you’re so nice to others, and you genuinely care! You’re not that self-centered.” Unfortunately, I know this is bullshit. The vast majority of the time when I do something, it’s because I see a potential benefit for me. I’m not doing something nice for someone else because I’m just that good a guy. I’m doing it because I’m hoping they’ll like me because of it. It’s like kids who give people candy hoping that they’ll become friends because of it. Buying friendship and loyalty.

There’s the rub though. I don’t like that person (or other people like that). I don’t like arrogant, cocky bastards, so I don’t want to be one despite that being closer to my true nature than the other. I want to be confident, but not overly so, not more than I deserve anyway.

But that’s the part I just can’t figure out. How do I do this? How do I find the middle ground that isn’t going too far one way or the other? Right now, the only things I truly understand are those extremes; the super nice guy who’s never angry or assertive or arrogant, and the over the top arrogant fop who thinks he’s greater than all the other guys around him, and doubly more deserving.

Neither of these are right. This I know objectively. What I don’t know, perhaps because it’s instinctive, is striking that balance. Not overdoing it. You just feel it, but I don’t know what it feels like so I have no point of reference, no proverbial landmarks to recognize when I’m in the general vicinity, and when I’ve gone too far in either direction.

So here I am with this new understanding, this new information, and I have absolutely no idea what to do with it. I guess I’m not as intelligent as my arrogant subconscious would have me believe. I’m so confused I don’t even know where to start.

What should I do?

Feral

This is exactly what therapy is for.

Zsetrek

Either way, you're not being honest with yourself. And what you've just written down smacks of self-justification, the kind of bullshit an idle mind spins in order to stave off painful truths.

My suggestion? Experience more. Put yourself out of the comfort zone. All of these problems caused by excessive self-reflection are partially a result of boredom. Learn to sail. Take up Spanish lessons. Join a football club. Spend less time worrying about yourself, and more time getting to know the world you live in - the people who live in it.

TheDragon

StudioZEL wrote: »

But that’s the part I just can’t figure out. How do I do this? How do I find the middle ground that isn’t going too far one way or the other? Right now, the only things I truly understand are those extremes; the super nice guy who’s never angry or assertive or arrogant, and the over the top arrogant fop who thinks he’s greater than all the other guys around him, and doubly more deserving.

Don't worry about it so much and get out of your head.

Don't worry so much about what other people think, or trying to be a good guy in their eyes. Start saying what you truly think and not what you "should" say. Don't be afraid of conflict. I have a friend who says what he thinks, and although he can be an ass sometimes, I know I'm dealing with an equal and not someone who's being a good guy and trying to please me. I like him better because he's being himself and not trying to be a nice guy. He also has more personality because of this.

I think you're looking to make a huge shift in your personality and switch to "medium-confidence" on Monday or something, but it won't happen that way or else people are gonna think you're nuts and have a mental disorder. Your personality will naturally shift if you just remember to say what you think and don't do things you've been conditioned to do as a nice guy.

The one thing to take from this is don't put on a confidence persona to try to fix things. Say what you think and do what you want, people will adapt to you and learn you're no longer a "nice guy".

Erios

You set impossible standards for yourself and get angry at yourself for not living up to them, hence the lack of confidence. Get to therapy.

xa52

Find a hobby to keep you busy so you have less time to analyze everything to death.

Or at least, if you insist on the analyzing, get some therapy so you at least have a second perspective, because just letting it bounce around in your head will do no good at all.

Capt Howdy

So do something with your epiphany.

The trick is to balance the cockiness with the doubt. Be confident in the areas you should be, be modest with your weak areas. Then find ways to strengthen your deficiencies; talk to women more, flirt more, take note of what you do right and wrong in these endeavors.

You're a typical guy in todays culture, accept it or challenge it. But do something, because it's obvious you hate where you are now.

Sliver

StudioZEL wrote: »

But then, women don't really like me now anyway, even when I suppress the arrogant bastard. And a lot of the time, I see over confident jerks actually succeeding in all aspects of life, especially with women. In this way, I sometimes think that maybe I should just be the arrogant, over confident bastard that I am, stop trying to be a good guy when I’m really not one at all. In that way I’d certainly be more “true to myself” than I am now right?

No, they aren't jerks. You're just calling them jerks because they're getting laid and you aren't. You know how ugly girls will see good looking women and start tearing them down? (Look at how skinny she is, look at how she's dressed like a slut, etc.) That's what you're doing right now. Stop that.

As7

Believe it or not, arrogance and confidence are not the same. Arrogance and a lack of self confidence are not opposites.

You're problem is likely that you are young and haven't been socially acclimated enough yet to women.

You're blanket statements about women and men are showing me this. Your belief that your problem is that you are a good guy is showing this.

You might be a good person inside but you're not broadcasting it correctly.

What you need to do is forget about scoring with a woman and worry about all the other goals in your life. Try to make friends.

Girlfriends and life experience will follow.

Sol Invictus

It sounds like you're putting on a facade. You aren't actually self-confident. You're a person lacking confidence who tries to compensate for it and cope with it by putting on a display of arrogance. It comes from a place of deep insecurity and people can often see through the 'act'.

Trust me, I used to be this way.

Your first step is to admit that you are, in actuality, lacking self confidence, and try to figure out how to feel *happy* with yourself without self-aggrandizing and behaving arrogantly.

So what you need to do is to essentially rid yourself of your ego. Every thing that you think you know about your self-image needs to be cleansed. You are not your preconceptions of who you are. Tabula rasa.

You need to be honest with yourself.

But then, women don't really like me now anyway, even when I suppress the arrogant bastard. And a lot of the time, I see over confident jerks actually succeeding in all aspects of life, especially with women. In this way, I sometimes think that maybe I should just be the arrogant, over confident bastard that I am, stop trying to be a good guy when I’m really not one at all. In that way I’d certainly be more “true to myself” than I am now right?

You need to stop thinking of 'women' as goals for you to succeed at or for you to have sex with. They are just people, and people want others with whom to be friends and share their lives with. It's not a difficult concept. Beyond that, simply because a man is capable of having 'women' as friends does not make him an 'overconfident jerk', because it takes neither confidence nor jerkocity to interact and be friends with a woman, no more than it takes any confidence to be friends with another man.

You're acting like one of those self-described "nice guys" who "doesn't understand" why women don't like him. It's affectatious.

Qingu

Don't over-analyze yourself. Anyone can get lost in the maze of justifications and subconscious motivations inside their brain. It's not pleasant, and I can't imagine it's very useful.

If your main concern is meeting ladies, I actually wonder if "confidence" is a red herring for you anyway. Yeah, confidence helps, but it's not everything, and if you're happy with your life then you tend to get more confident automatically. Instead of worrying about confidence and shit, maybe a better strategy would be to find better ways to meet like-minded girls.

Meeting people (including potential significant others) is really hard, especially if you're out of college. Adult life can be very lonely (because who the hell is going to talk to strangers on the bus or at the liquor store?) So: what are you doing with your life that will (1) make you happy, and (2) help you meet new people? Are there any social activities that interest you?

I think you should stop worrying about yourself, find something new and social to do, and take a plunge. And if you don't meet any girls, then just be patient, because it's basically a crap-shoot anyway.

BrotherVoodoo

Just because you're confident in you're abilities, doesnt mean that you'll actually act that way.

One thing could be anxiety. Chuck Knoblauch obviously knew how to throw a baseball, but suddenly in the midst of a major league season he just couldnt do it. Former Gold Glover, so obviously he would have been confident in his abilities, but that didnt stop him from losing his touch. Just because you know you'd be something when you're there, doesn't mean you have the confidence to do the steps that will get you there. You may be confident that you'd be a good boyfriend but you may not be confident enough to make an ass out of yourself enough to get a girlfriend.
Ya dig?

StudioZEL

I see, I always took arrogance as just confidence x 1,000. If that's the case then I am lacking in confidence, but am also arrogant (which in my mind is not a good thing).

I'm young, but out of college, and have a difficult time meeting people. There isn't much to do here in CT that interests me, about the only thing I ever do to "go out" would be every Saturday I go with my sister and her roommates to New Jersey to take private Japanese lessons. About the only thing I could think of looking for in CT to be social with is meeting people who are also interested in Japanese language and culture. But I haven't found anything like that around here, about the closest thing I can find are maybe the occasional anime club with people who are way too young for me (I'd prefer to make friends closer to my age ala 27ish, not high school kids).

I'd move out if I could afford it financially, but I'm stuck in the middle of CT with no realistic way out. And with the economy as it is I'm lucky I even have a job, so I'm not going to just quit and leave 'cause that'd be stupid. Especially since I have bills up the ears with my car, school loans, etc.

I guess I feel stuck in a rut, and want to meet people to distract myself from how "stuck" I am.

Chop Logic

I'm only posting because I saw two people recommend going to therapy. Seriously? That is a little extreme.

I think the same way you do, I think I am the smartest, that my ideas are the best. It's fine, and for a long time I thought that everyone thought this way (it still seems weird to me, I can't imagine being comfortable thinking that I was the dumbest person in my group of friends, and it would seem like a confidence problem to me to think that your ideas aren't the best at least some of the time). I'm sure someone here will quote me to try and make me look like an arrogant jerk but I don't really care.

All of my girlfriends ever have said that they were attracted to my confidence.

The problem is that you just can't be a jerk about it. Just don't act as though you're smarter than people. Recognize that you don't know everything, and if someone has an idea better than yours, say so. I used to be a total dick to some people because of how smart I thought I was, but then once I realized it, I was able to stop it completely, simply because I didn't want to be that type of person.

So, basically, I'd say you don't really have a problem. You just think highly of yourself and maybe subconsciously think you have a lot of potential of expect a lot from yourself. Just don't be a dick to other people and you'll be fine.

As7

StudioZEL wrote: »

I see, I always took arrogance as just confidence x 1,000. If that's the case then I am lacking in confidence, but am also arrogant (which in my mind is not a good thing).

I'm young, but out of college, and have a difficult time meeting people. There isn't much to do here in CT that interests me, about the only thing I ever do to "go out" would be every Saturday I go with my sister and her roommates to New Jersey to take private Japanese lessons. About the only thing I could think of looking for in CT to be social with is meeting people who are also interested in Japanese language and culture. But I haven't found anything like that around here, about the closest thing I can find are maybe the occasional anime club with people who are way too young for me (I'd prefer to make friends closer to my age ala 27ish, not high school kids).

I'd move out if I could afford it financially, but I'm stuck in the middle of CT with no realistic way out. And with the economy as it is I'm lucky I even have a job, so I'm not going to just quit and leave 'cause that'd be stupid. Especially since I have bills up the ears with my car, school loans, etc.

I guess I feel stuck in a rut, and want to meet people to distract myself from how "stuck" I am.

Consider diversifying your activities.

Start small.

I started by going to coffee shops and libraries to do my reading of books and comics and if you have a laptop, there's something private you can do in public, too.

Put yourself in situations where you have to talk to people.

Look for opportunities to do volunteer work.

Look in your paper for music you might want to go listen too and theater to watch.

Put yourself in public places and when the opportunity arises chat with people.

JohnnyCache

Let me ask you this: Does this conflict keep you from self improvement? In other words, does your sub-conscious cockiness make you think all things should come to you, and create bitter dissonance when they don't?

Does your perception of two extremes - the doormat (You don't have to "never get angry" to be a nice person) and the over-the-top asshole have anything to do with frustration towards those elements within yourself and others? In other words, do you really not like assertive people and not want to be one, or is your distaste for them rooted in jealousy based on what they have that you do not or what you percieve they take from you?

splash

First, have a positive laugh at yourself for the irony that you believe you have over-confidence and that's the reason you aren't confident. Even if it is true, it's funny no?

Once you've released some of the seriousness from the situation consider what people have said like that it may be simply arrogance. I'd hint at Inferiority Complex, but maybe not.

Some people who think of themselves as lesser to most other people either become a doormat as previous poster said or go to another extreme like you've done.

You are an equal. Realize that your perception of other people and their personality is not the full picture. They have struggles and faults too. Even that person that everyone likes may feel shitty about themselves from time to time.

SammyF

You know, I was a lot like you when I was 20, OP. As much as some comments may sound flippant ("This is exactly what therapy is for") I should probably tell you that this really is going to cause huge problems in your life if you don't work it out, and therapy is not at all a bad idea.

Here's my general observation about what direction you need to go in, from someone who has been where you are and felt like you feel and struggled hard to get over himself:

Emotionally-healthy, confident people don't spend nearly as much time as you do worrying about what other people think. They don't have to hold themselves up to a standard of some sort or worry about whether they're greater than/less than/or equal to that standard or to the standards of another human being. Confidence isn't about being able to meet someone else's expectations; it's about feeling happy with yourself regardless of how other people think of you or how you measure up to some mythical standard.

So much of your original post was about how you relate to other people. Stop worrying about that and start thinking instead about how you relate to yourself.