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Police Brutality...
mcdermott
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So yeah, from the chat thread we have this link showing a UCLA student (without his ID, apparently) being tased for what appears to be nothing more than belligerence, and then being repeatedly tased for being uncooperative after that point (big surpise!).
This follows on the heels of this video, where a cop repeatedly punches a suspect in the face in the course of his arrest.
So seriously, WTF?
The UCLA incident interests me more, as I've been a bit worried about the issue of tasers to the police for quite some time. Basically it gives them the ability to inflict huge amounts of pain with little worry of causing any permanent damage (unlike, say, repeatedly punching a guy in the face). But is this really something that should be used on a nonviolent protester? Or anybody who is being uncooperative, but completely nonviolent? At what point does repeatedly tasing somebody who is being nonviolent cross the line into torture?
What I found especially disgusting in the UCLA video was when, towards the end, a police officer tells another student from the gathering crowd that if he doesn't "go back over there, you're going to get tased too." The nonchalant way in which he says it conveys, to me, an attitude that he as a police officer has no problem whatsoever causing some college kid an assload of pain if he doesn't listen.
So, what do we think? I think most of us will agree that the officers in both these incidents went overboard. But if officers are going to be so casual in the use of non-lethal (but extremely painful) force, should they really be carrying tasers?
EDIT: Also, for additional linkiness regarding the UCLA incident, UCLA's newspaper and The LA Times.
This follows on the heels of this video, where a cop repeatedly punches a suspect in the face in the course of his arrest.
So seriously, WTF?
The UCLA incident interests me more, as I've been a bit worried about the issue of tasers to the police for quite some time. Basically it gives them the ability to inflict huge amounts of pain with little worry of causing any permanent damage (unlike, say, repeatedly punching a guy in the face). But is this really something that should be used on a nonviolent protester? Or anybody who is being uncooperative, but completely nonviolent? At what point does repeatedly tasing somebody who is being nonviolent cross the line into torture?
What I found especially disgusting in the UCLA video was when, towards the end, a police officer tells another student from the gathering crowd that if he doesn't "go back over there, you're going to get tased too." The nonchalant way in which he says it conveys, to me, an attitude that he as a police officer has no problem whatsoever causing some college kid an assload of pain if he doesn't listen.
So, what do we think? I think most of us will agree that the officers in both these incidents went overboard. But if officers are going to be so casual in the use of non-lethal (but extremely painful) force, should they really be carrying tasers?
EDIT: Also, for additional linkiness regarding the UCLA incident, UCLA's newspaper and The LA Times.
mcdermott on
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Awesome sauce.
Here's an LA Times article. Dunno if there's a link to the actual video, though.
Now to add someone actual post content: I definitely think it's pretty clear that when someone is handcuffed, you don't need to continue tasing him. If you think he might be armed, pat him down already. There's no excuse for zapping the hell out of someone who isn't actually even resisting you.
What is the procedure for when a person you are arresting refuses to move at all and you need to get them out of the building?
From what I understand about that UCLA thing, it was after hours and you need an I.D. to stay there. He didn't have it on him, and didn't feel like communicating it to the cops like a rational person should (read: coped an attitude.)
If a 22 year old punk was giving me lip and not producing an I.D. that is required for you to be there, i'd taser his ass. What are you gonna do, ask him nicely until he relents? This guy wouldn't let an officer touch him, wouldn't produce I.D., and wouldn't explain himself. He gets uppity and has an attitude, I say you taser that bastard. Let's face it, some folks ask for it.
You can call it police brutatlity, I call it poetic justice in that instance. I bet you next time he doesn't forget his I.D. or give the cops some flak. It's not like they jerk off to the thought of tasering guys all day long - they're doing what they're paid to do.
Now, the one video of the cops punching the guy in the face, yeah, that's over the top. A cop's gonna swing for that one - rightly so.
Also - pepper spraying a guy in the backseat is harmless, if excessive though. I've known some real scumbags who spit and try and bleed all over cops. OC can exact compliance from someone, until he can be placed into a holding cell.
Edit: It varies from state to state, but most (if not all) states require you to under-go getting sprayed and tasered if you wish to carry those weapons - this includes bond recovery agents and security gaurds.
Edit edit: According to some links I just read, the student tried to pull away from the touch of the officers, saying "Don't touch me." Technically, this is resisting arrest, and yes, you can be tasered or sprayed, even man handled to the ground and cuffed.
The same officer ran up and kicked a girl in the back with enough force to pitch her forward. Before being kicked, she was kneeling on the sidewalk, disoriented, after police had started throwing tear gas. She had a first aid kit and a medic band on her arm.
The officer was fired, but later reinstated and given compensation for the work that was missed due to his dismissal.
Also:
http://www.cato.org/raidmap/
Take it with a grain of salt.
If s/he's being arrested, the police may use force.
*EDIT:
@3lwap0: so because someone is an ass hole, you hurt him?
Here's a news flash for you: being "uppity" isn't against the law. Nor is it sufficient justification to hurt someone.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
You're a fucking retard.
Tasers are not considred 'non-lethal', they are considered 'less than lethal'. Electical shock on certain folks with medical conditions can prove fatal (see: Pacemaker) if not given immediate medical attention.
Repeatedly using a weapon that may kill someone on a 22 year old boy, I rest my case
Over and over again, no less.
They didn't just taser him one time. They tasered him, and then when he wouldn't stand up (probably because he had, y'know, just been tasered), they did again. And again. And again. They were torturing the guy.
And were they even arresting him when he said "don't touch me?" We don't know. How often do they arrest someone for not producing their ID at a library? It's not really resisting arrest if they haven't said "you're under arrest." Last I checked, it was still legal to be an asshole to a cop.
I don't even know that I could call that an "overreaction." It wasn't even a reaction, it was just torturing a guy because they thought they could get away with it. And if they were so sure they were in the right, then they should've been handing out their goddamn business cards to all the people asking for their information, instead of threatening them with tasering.
You want to know why cops catch so much flack in this country in spite of all the good they do? That's why. Because even though they are frequently in position to save people's lives, most of the everyday interaction people have with cops is them acting like cockmunchers, because they joined the police force so they'd have authority over other people, because that's how they get their fucking kicks.
Who has no moral objection to tasering assholes.
So, you don't mind if I go ahead and taser you, then?
So we are in agreement with the "fucking retard" thing then. Good.
That's assault and battery. The ones upholding the law should not be the ones breaking it.
Could I taser back?
Since you disagree, though, you shouldn't mind.
Are you suggesting that tasers have uniform effects across all people?
Tasers were designed to take down people twice your size and PCP addicts. They aren't fucking joy buzzers.
I hope to god someone tasers this guy's ass just for the fuck of it
Oh you'll get yours.
Just you wait.....
I think he was suggesting that they were expecting this kid to hop right up with a "Yes, sir" afterwards, because hey, they got tased in a controlled environment once, and they were fine. You know, a few minutes afterwards. Not feeling particularly chipper, and maybe a little disoriented, but more or less mobile. So clearly, this guy should have been immediately responsive, because everyone knows tasers don't really do anything.
After that point, however, he could easily have been dragged out of there without further tasering, and I think that's the point where it crossed into brutality. And the cop who told the student who asked for his badge number to go away or else she's be tasered, too, deserves to be fired.
My bias would usually leave me more willing to support the officers but I think they used excessive force here. They do seem to be dragging him out, they want him to walk under his own power, which perhaps, he truly cannot. That being the case, repeatedly tasering him isn't going to do shit.
That said, I hope the officers involved are made an example of.
It's the same thing with "no-knock" warrants. In many cases, nobody can testify that they even heard the police announce who they were when they were busting into a house. Then someone (either officer or civilian) gets shot, because the person in the house has no idea who might have just kicked in their front door.
Well, I think it depends a lot on what the officers were doing during those invisible ten seconds too. From what I can tell, he wasn't under arrest at that point, so if they were shoving him as he was trying to get stuff together, or otherwise harassing him (which wouldn't be a huge shock given their behavior later in the video) ... well, I'd freak out too, most likely.