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The world isn't a fair place. Although it's unlikely, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with the prospect of getting kicked out of UCLA or having a criminal record. I'm pretty sure all the people there were thinking along those lines.
Is there any way to find out if he was warned with the taser the first time? As in had it pointed at him like a gun? I understand the kid was probably being an asshole, but I don't think you can immediately zap a suspect unless there is a threat of violence. And I doubt the kid was about to assault the cops.
Anyway this is really more about zapping him to get him to stand up. I can't wait till we hear about these cops getting fired.[/list]
But I also might have prevented the next three taserings. Repeated shocks can cause serious physical damage.
You could have also gotten other students killed when these cops reacted to a group of students rushing them.
Again, in this situation, you are not there to dispense justice.
"Dispense justice"? No, I think any physical interference on my part would have been more motivated by the increasingly urgent need to prevent someone from being shocked to death.
In any case I believe my point was that I would have lost my disposition for cool reasoning after he was tasered for being unable to stand up because he had been tasered.
Good samaritan. You don't just sit back and let someone get roughed up for no reason. Especially when you have damn near 100 witnesses to back up your side of the story.
I won't argue with this logic or belief. It's your call as to whether this situation called for the action you're talking about.
Actually, I think most of us here agree that this situation called for the action he's talking about. The problem is whether a prosecutor and/or jury would agree that the situation called for it.
I think I just have very little faith in our justice system.
After seeing the video I doubt a jury would convict anyone who attempted to interfere.
Holy fucking shit. So yeah I just saw it on my big TV as well. Totally different story. Two cops holding him, handcuffed, tasering him as his legs fly up in the air.
I'd have had to tackle the motherfuckers.
Yeah, they had a second video, there.
So, here's another question: am I to understand now that going limp is now license for police officers to abuse you? I wasn't aware that presented an immediate threat to the officers' well-being.
Good samaritan. You don't just sit back and let someone get roughed up for no reason. Especially when you have damn near 100 witnesses to back up your side of the story.
I won't argue with this logic or belief. It's your call as to whether this situation called for the action you're talking about.
Actually, I think most of us here agree that this situation called for the action he's talking about. The problem is whether a prosecutor and/or jury would agree that the situation called for it.
I think I just have very little faith in our justice system.
After seeing the video I doubt a jury would convict anyone who attempted to interfere.
There's still a chance of facing serious consequences, or at the very least missing a whole lot of class. It doesn't justify standing by, but I can understand how it would make one hesitant.
A taser would have been the best weapon for the officer to use (you don't attempt a hand takedown against an unknown party if you have another option).
Seriously? How is pumping someone full of electricity the better option than going for a lock?
Good samaritan. You don't just sit back and let someone get roughed up for no reason. Especially when you have damn near 100 witnesses to back up your side of the story.
I won't argue with this logic or belief. It's your call as to whether this situation called for the action you're talking about.
Actually, I think most of us here agree that this situation called for the action he's talking about. The problem is whether a prosecutor and/or jury would agree that the situation called for it.
I think I just have very little faith in our justice system.
After seeing the video I doubt a jury would convict anyone who attempted to interfere.
The problem is that juries tend to be made up of 3lwap0s rather than Shintos.
We all realize that even in the pantheon of police brutality this isn't even that serious, right? It's only particularly amazing because they did it in the face of so many witnesses.
In Portland there was recently a homeless man beaten to death by the PPD, and as it stands (if I've been following the story correctly) there doesn't really appear to be much justice forthcoming. Sorry that's not the most current link, it's a lazy google.
I can also remember the delightful stories about Alex Fagan, Jr., who was being covered up for by his father, the then Chief of Police. This one criminal incident is hardly the only allegation of brutality and then failure to correct against Alex Fagan, it's just the one they decided to really pursue.
This is to say nothing of the hugely corrupt police forces in major areas like Oakland, LA, and NYC of which I'm not too familiar with because I never lived there. These are just cases collected living in various regions.
This shit happens everywhere and to be grimly honest, getting excessively tazed is hardly the worst thing an incompetent police officer has ever done.
edit: goddamn I'm tired, I really fucked that bbcode up.
Holy fucking shit. So yeah I just saw it on my big TV as well. Totally different story. Two cops holding him, handcuffed, tasering him as his legs fly up in the air.
I'd have had to tackle the motherfuckers.
Yeah, they had a second video, there.
So, here's another question: am I to understand now that going limp is now license for police officers to abuse you? I wasn't aware that presented an immediate threat to the officers' well-being.
Depends. Are you a Republican?
It's like Jimbo and Ned from South Park.
"Look out, Ned! He's goin' limp!"
Thanatos on
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
Holy fucking shit. So yeah I just saw it on my big TV as well. Totally different story. Two cops holding him, handcuffed, tasering him as his legs fly up in the air.
I'd have had to tackle the motherfuckers.
I haven't seen the footage on television yet (it's being recorded right now, though), but in the web video you see him reacting to the tazering he receives in the hall. He sharply jumps up, and his right leg swings outward, almost to the point of hyperextending. It was a very dramatic reaction.
Holy fucking shit. So yeah I just saw it on my big TV as well. Totally different story. Two cops holding him, handcuffed, tasering him as his legs fly up in the air.
I'd have had to tackle the motherfuckers.
Yeah, they had a second video, there.
So, here's another question: am I to understand now that going limp is now license for police officers to abuse you? I wasn't aware that presented an immediate threat to the officers' well-being.
Dude, non-violent resistance is the worst kind of terrorism.
Yes, UCPD officers carry guns. There was an incident where an officer shot a transient in a study lounge (this was 3 years ago). Supposedly the guy made a grab for the officer's gun. I'm not sure how that turned out.
At about 9:50 pm Sunday evening, October 5, 2003, there was an officer-involved shooting in Kerckhoff Hall (campus offices and lounges) at UCLA.
UCPD Officer Terrence Duren, on routine foot patrol in Kerckhoff Hall encountered a trespassing suspect, Willie Davis Frazier age 52, in the student lounge. The suspect was a "non-affiliate" (not a student, staff, or faculty). There was a physical altercation. The officer, in fear of his life, fired two shots, striking the suspect. The suspect was transported for medical care.
LAPD is working with UCPD to investigate the incident.
The suspect has been charged with 2 counts of assault with a deadly weapon (with a gun and with a baton) and 1 count of attempting to take a weapon from a police officer.
Holy fucking shit. So yeah I just saw it on my big TV as well. Totally different story. Two cops holding him, handcuffed, tasering him as his legs fly up in the air.
I'd have had to tackle the motherfuckers.
Yeah, they had a second video, there.
So, here's another question: am I to understand now that going limp is now license for police officers to abuse you? I wasn't aware that presented an immediate threat to the officers' well-being.
Dude, non-violent resistance is the worst kind of terrorism.
Actually, you aren't far from the truth there in a way
I was under the impression that in most states cops legally had to give you thier badge number
They do. It's just a pissing contest again.
On the note of other forms of subduing a suspect, yes, most forms of law enforcement are taught tried-and-true methods of taking down a person without resorting to the next level of control. I guess our intrepid campus security missed that day of class.
Well, generally campus cops are the guys who couldn't get hired at the local "real" police departments. Not sure if this is the case at UCLA.
And to my friends who are campus cops, I am very sorry.
I like to think that campus cops take the job thinking it's going to be a neverending train of getting laid.
A taser would have been the best weapon for the officer to use (you don't attempt a hand takedown against an unknown party if you have another option).
Seriously? How is pumping someone full of electricity the better option than going for a lock?
Because only an idiot goes hand to hand with someone whose abilities they do not know, especially if they have other options.
There were three of them. If the guy is proficient enough in physical abilities to take down three trained police officers, I don't think the tasers are going to make much of a difference.
A taser would have been the best weapon for the officer to use (you don't attempt a hand takedown against an unknown party if you have another option).
Seriously? How is pumping someone full of electricity the better option than going for a lock?
Because only an idiot goes hand to hand with someone whose abilities they do not know, especially if they have other options.
There were three of them. If the guy is proficient enough in physical abilities to take down three trained police officers, I don't think the tasers are going to make much of a difference.
Holy fucking shit. So yeah I just saw it on my big TV as well. Totally different story. Two cops holding him, handcuffed, tasering him as his legs fly up in the air.
I'd have had to tackle the motherfuckers.
Yeah, they had a second video, there.
So, here's another question: am I to understand now that going limp is now license for police officers to abuse you? I wasn't aware that presented an immediate threat to the officers' well-being.
Dude, non-violent resistance is the worst kind of terrorism.
Interestingly, see the pepper spray case I just linked to.
The details of that case which might not be presented is that they were engaging in planned non-violent actions which create a situation where it's impossible for police to remove them. Something like you build these metal things into the ground and then lock your arms into them and in order to remove you, you either have to let go of the metal contraption yourself or the cops would have to snap your arms off, which is actually beyond the pale. So they were in a situation where the cops needed to remove them and they couldn't, so they settled on directly applying pepper spray. There's audio of the thing somewhere, I've heard it, and it's pretty horrible -- hippy chick sobbing/screaming out "I love you I love you I love you I love you" while the cop applies it right in there. It's pretty eery.
Also, is it just me or do cops tend to be either incredibly cool/professional/likeable people or, well people like this guy I've quoted, or the cops in the videos? Most of my experience with American cops has been with campus cops, who, granted, aren't real cops, but they've always been either really cool, or smug as hell, putting on movie-badass-cop airs.
I think most of the time they are the nice guys. The reason cops get a bad rep is because usually whenever some is dealing with a cop, the cop has to be tough with them. These cases of brutality are the minority not the majority.
We all realize that even in the pantheon of police brutality this isn't even that serious, right? It's only particularly amazing because they did it in the face of so many witnesses.
In Portland there was recently a homeless man beaten to death by the PPD, and as it stands (if I've been following the story correctly) there doesn't really appear to be much justice forthcoming. Sorry that's not the most current link, it's a lazy google.
I can also remember the delightful stories about Alex Fagan, Jr., who was being covered up for by his father, the then Chief of Police. This one criminal incident is hardly the only allegation of brutality and then failure to correct against Alex Fagan, it's just the one they decided to really pursue.
This is to say nothing of the hugely corrupt police forces in major areas like Oakland, LA, and NYC of which I'm not too familiar with because I never lived there. These are just cases collected living in various regions.
This shit happens everywhere and to be grimly honest, getting excessively tazed is hardly the worst thing an incompetent police officer has ever done.
edit: goddamn I'm tired, I really fucked that bbcode up.
Seriously, Cel, I couldn't agree more. I think police corruption is one of the biggest problems facing this country. They think they're immune from prosecution, immune from investigation, immune from the law, and, most of all, immune from consequences. And, in general, they're right, because no one wants to side against the police.
We need someone other than cops to keep an eye on cops. Internal Affairs departments should be separate entities entirely, and they should be allowed to conduct stings, just like any other department. Their officers should make a point of doing things like getting arrested with 30 pounds of pot to see how much of it makes it to trial.
A taser would have been the best weapon for the officer to use (you don't attempt a hand takedown against an unknown party if you have another option).
Seriously? How is pumping someone full of electricity the better option than going for a lock?
Because only an idiot goes hand to hand with someone whose abilities they do not know, especially if they have other options.
There were three of them. If the guy is proficient enough in physical abilities to take down three trained police officers, I don't think the tasers are going to make much of a difference.
I'm getting word that the police had reason to believe he was a jedi.
Holy fucking shit. So yeah I just saw it on my big TV as well. Totally different story. Two cops holding him, handcuffed, tasering him as his legs fly up in the air.
I'd have had to tackle the motherfuckers.
Yeah, they had a second video, there.
So, here's another question: am I to understand now that going limp is now license for police officers to abuse you? I wasn't aware that presented an immediate threat to the officers' well-being.
Dude, non-violent resistance is the worst kind of terrorism.
Interestingly, see the pepper spray case I just linked to.
The details of that case which might not be presented is that they were engaging in planned non-violent actions which create a situation where it's impossible for police to remove them. Something like you build these metal things into the ground and then lock your arms into them and in order to remove you, you either have to let go of the metal contraption yourself or the cops would have to snap your arms off, which is actually beyond the pale. So they were in a situation where the cops needed to remove them and they couldn't, so they settled on directly applying pepper spray. There's audio of the thing somewhere, I've heard it, and it's pretty horrible -- hippy chick sobbing/screaming out "I love you I love you I love you I love you" while the cop applies it right in there. It's pretty eery.
Lovely.
When did waiting them out become an impossibly difficult and dangerous option that could in no way be pursued?
A taser would have been the best weapon for the officer to use (you don't attempt a hand takedown against an unknown party if you have another option).
Seriously? How is pumping someone full of electricity the better option than going for a lock?
Because only an idiot goes hand to hand with someone whose abilities they do not know, especially if they have other options.
There were three of them. If the guy is proficient enough in physical abilities to take down three trained police officers, I don't think the tasers are going to make much of a difference.
I'm getting word that the police had reason to believe he was a jedi.
Holy fucking shit. So yeah I just saw it on my big TV as well. Totally different story. Two cops holding him, handcuffed, tasering him as his legs fly up in the air.
I'd have had to tackle the motherfuckers.
Yeah, they had a second video, there.
So, here's another question: am I to understand now that going limp is now license for police officers to abuse you? I wasn't aware that presented an immediate threat to the officers' well-being.
Dude, non-violent resistance is the worst kind of terrorism.
Interestingly, see the pepper spray case I just linked to.
The details of that case which might not be presented is that they were engaging in planned non-violent actions which create a situation where it's impossible for police to remove them. Something like you build these metal things into the ground and then lock your arms into them and in order to remove you, you either have to let go of the metal contraption yourself or the cops would have to snap your arms off, which is actually beyond the pale. So they were in a situation where the cops needed to remove them and they couldn't, so they settled on directly applying pepper spray. There's audio of the thing somewhere, I've heard it, and it's pretty horrible -- hippy chick sobbing/screaming out "I love you I love you I love you I love you" while the cop applies it right in there. It's pretty eery.
Any reason they couldn't just cut apart the metal things?
Holy fucking shit. So yeah I just saw it on my big TV as well. Totally different story. Two cops holding him, handcuffed, tasering him as his legs fly up in the air.
I'd have had to tackle the motherfuckers.
Yeah, they had a second video, there.
So, here's another question: am I to understand now that going limp is now license for police officers to abuse you? I wasn't aware that presented an immediate threat to the officers' well-being.
Dude, non-violent resistance is the worst kind of terrorism.
Interestingly, see the pepper spray case I just linked to.
The details of that case which might not be presented is that they were engaging in planned non-violent actions which create a situation where it's impossible for police to remove them. Something like you build these metal things into the ground and then lock your arms into them and in order to remove you, you either have to let go of the metal contraption yourself or the cops would have to snap your arms off, which is actually beyond the pale. So they were in a situation where the cops needed to remove them and they couldn't, so they settled on directly applying pepper spray. There's audio of the thing somewhere, I've heard it, and it's pretty horrible -- hippy chick sobbing/screaming out "I love you I love you I love you I love you" while the cop applies it right in there. It's pretty eery.
Any reason they couldn't just cut apart the metal things?
A taser would have been the best weapon for the officer to use (you don't attempt a hand takedown against an unknown party if you have another option).
Seriously? How is pumping someone full of electricity the better option than going for a lock?
Because only an idiot goes hand to hand with someone whose abilities they do not know, especially if they have other options.
What about when the odds are three on one and the suspect is handcuffed? (talking about subsequent tasings)
It's some random vaguely-middle-eastern-looking college student, not the goddamned Terminator.
Yeah, and one of my friends was a short, white guy with a small pot belly, but once a week he taught Jujitsu down at the Y. Looking like a badass is not a requirement for being able to fight.
I know I feel the need to go for the taser the minute someone won't produce their ID when I ask for it.
Holy fucking shit. So yeah I just saw it on my big TV as well. Totally different story. Two cops holding him, handcuffed, tasering him as his legs fly up in the air.
I'd have had to tackle the motherfuckers.
Yeah, they had a second video, there.
So, here's another question: am I to understand now that going limp is now license for police officers to abuse you? I wasn't aware that presented an immediate threat to the officers' well-being.
Dude, non-violent resistance is the worst kind of terrorism.
Interestingly, see the pepper spray case I just linked to.
The details of that case which might not be presented is that they were engaging in planned non-violent actions which create a situation where it's impossible for police to remove them. Something like you build these metal things into the ground and then lock your arms into them and in order to remove you, you either have to let go of the metal contraption yourself or the cops would have to snap your arms off, which is actually beyond the pale. So they were in a situation where the cops needed to remove them and they couldn't, so they settled on directly applying pepper spray. There's audio of the thing somewhere, I've heard it, and it's pretty horrible -- hippy chick sobbing/screaming out "I love you I love you I love you I love you" while the cop applies it right in there. It's pretty eery.
Lovely.
When did waiting them out become an impossibly difficult and dangerous option that could in no way be pursued?
Their actions are designed specifically to prevent the functioning of the lumber industry in that area, so every minute spent waiting them out is another minute where lumber is not produced, and profit does not occur.
Posts
Is there any way to find out if he was warned with the taser the first time? As in had it pointed at him like a gun? I understand the kid was probably being an asshole, but I don't think you can immediately zap a suspect unless there is a threat of violence. And I doubt the kid was about to assault the cops.
Anyway this is really more about zapping him to get him to stand up. I can't wait till we hear about these cops getting fired.[/list]
"Dispense justice"? No, I think any physical interference on my part would have been more motivated by the increasingly urgent need to prevent someone from being shocked to death.
In any case I believe my point was that I would have lost my disposition for cool reasoning after he was tasered for being unable to stand up because he had been tasered.
What are you not understanding here?
After seeing the video I doubt a jury would convict anyone who attempted to interfere.
So, here's another question: am I to understand now that going limp is now license for police officers to abuse you? I wasn't aware that presented an immediate threat to the officers' well-being.
There's still a chance of facing serious consequences, or at the very least missing a whole lot of class. It doesn't justify standing by, but I can understand how it would make one hesitant.
Seriously? How is pumping someone full of electricity the better option than going for a lock?
In Portland there was recently a homeless man beaten to death by the PPD, and as it stands (if I've been following the story correctly) there doesn't really appear to be much justice forthcoming. Sorry that's not the most current link, it's a lazy google.
I can also remember the delightful stories about Alex Fagan, Jr., who was being covered up for by his father, the then Chief of Police. This one criminal incident is hardly the only allegation of brutality and then failure to correct against Alex Fagan, it's just the one they decided to really pursue.
Of course there's also the case of police offers holding non-violent protesters eyes open so they could swab them directly with pepper spray. This is also an old link, but if I remember correctly about 6 or 7 years after this writing a judge found that it was indeed excessive force, but offered no punishments or awarded no damages.
This is to say nothing of the hugely corrupt police forces in major areas like Oakland, LA, and NYC of which I'm not too familiar with because I never lived there. These are just cases collected living in various regions.
This shit happens everywhere and to be grimly honest, getting excessively tazed is hardly the worst thing an incompetent police officer has ever done.
edit: goddamn I'm tired, I really fucked that bbcode up.
"Look out, Ned! He's goin' limp!"
I haven't seen the footage on television yet (it's being recorded right now, though), but in the web video you see him reacting to the tazering he receives in the hall. He sharply jumps up, and his right leg swings outward, almost to the point of hyperextending. It was a very dramatic reaction.
Surprise, surprise.
Yes, UCPD officers carry guns. There was an incident where an officer shot a transient in a study lounge (this was 3 years ago). Supposedly the guy made a grab for the officer's gun. I'm not sure how that turned out.
Oh, and lookie here:
http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=30585
That shooting was what led to the UCPD equipping their officers with tasers.
Actually, you aren't far from the truth there in a way
And getting free weed during dorm rounds.
While cuffed, nonetheless
The details of that case which might not be presented is that they were engaging in planned non-violent actions which create a situation where it's impossible for police to remove them. Something like you build these metal things into the ground and then lock your arms into them and in order to remove you, you either have to let go of the metal contraption yourself or the cops would have to snap your arms off, which is actually beyond the pale. So they were in a situation where the cops needed to remove them and they couldn't, so they settled on directly applying pepper spray. There's audio of the thing somewhere, I've heard it, and it's pretty horrible -- hippy chick sobbing/screaming out "I love you I love you I love you I love you" while the cop applies it right in there. It's pretty eery.
I think most of the time they are the nice guys. The reason cops get a bad rep is because usually whenever some is dealing with a cop, the cop has to be tough with them. These cases of brutality are the minority not the majority.
We need someone other than cops to keep an eye on cops. Internal Affairs departments should be separate entities entirely, and they should be allowed to conduct stings, just like any other department. Their officers should make a point of doing things like getting arrested with 30 pounds of pot to see how much of it makes it to trial.
I'm getting word that the police had reason to believe he was a jedi.
When did waiting them out become an impossibly difficult and dangerous option that could in no way be pursued?
Seriously, that's basically like pulling a gun.