FUCK the idiots that made this game for not understand what the word "counters" mean.
You're a winner.
august on
0
ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
On the garrisoned buildings thing, I find that setting up a heavy bolter to cover the exit, followed by setting up a plasma cannon to bombard the building does wonders to make players either shit their pants and exit (And promptly get slaughtered.), or sit there and get killed with the building.
But yeah, so far, every race i've played (All of them, sans Eldar.) seem to have shitty anti-garrison abilities pre-T2. Those flamers don't do crap against someone who actually puts a unit that has suppression capabilities in a building. In addition to that, I had a tactical squad hose down a building for a good ten seconds, and i'm ninety nine percent sure that it didn't kill anyone, or even really hurt anything in there. Though maybe that was a bug. I haven't used flamers since.
And Marines generally tend to suck against vehicles. Dreadnaughts, plasma cannons, and Predators are their only true hard counters against them and one of them isn't even really AV.
Marine missile launchers don't do crap in damage as well, unless it's a tank type unit and they hit the rear armor. By the time you get your second round off, if the player is smart, he'll just have the vehicle in question melee the crap out of the enemy, making it useless. You really need two of them to do anything. That's rather tough, since tactical squads are insanely expensive, and unless you hold off on upgrading your first squad, you'll probably need to build a third one.
I took out 2 dreadnaughts with one tac missle launcher squad yesterday. They do a LOT of damage to it actually.
Just saying.
From what i've seen they do about 1/4 of it's health. Any player who's paying attention to his units would have the thing go into melee range as soon as the missile was launched.
It'd be even worse if you were up against venerable dreadnaughts, since they can hulk out and charge you, and the charge can tear through any barricades/minor buildings/heavy cover/infantry in the way.
So spoiler alert guys, remember prior to the beta I mentioned I was really worried about a whiny moronic COH player whom I was dreading to have come play with us?
I'll give you three guesses as to whom that player is.
Goomba, so despite the tool tips for BOTH grenades saying they're effective vs units in buildings, and despite me launching TWO salvos of both nades - it's my fault that it only took out 25% health and no unit kills on the heavy bolter? Get real.
As for the question about point control - a medium to large sized army (not even counting at pop cap, just 50+ pop) results in a sub 200 manpower income, often closer to 100. If your enemy loses his army he's at a 300 income. This gives him 3x the resource income to build an army that is a PERFECT counter for yours. The inability to push in after a major win and cripple your enemy (or finish him off) is game-breaking. Every other RTS lets you capitalize on a win by "breaking your opponent's back". In this game, you cannot break your opponent. You just push him off the field momentarily.
Also, if you're even letting them get to your missile launcher squad you're doing it wrong. Part of the reason you'd use a walker is that you can tie up one AT squad in melee if your opponent lets you.
So, don't let them. Get some other shit in the walker's way and fire at it with the missiles from afar.
Except that the AI is garbage and ordering a tac marine with a missile launcher to attack an enemy armor will result in your tac marine running (sorry, wrong word. walking) right up to the target, where it promptly engages in melee combat and dies quickly.
Yes, I realize this bug has been reported 10,000 times - but I'm worried. Over the 2 year course of CoH they've NEVER ONCE fixed an infantry AI bug despite thousands of bug reports. I don't know if they're capable of fixing AI problems once a game goes live.
So spoiler alert guys, remember prior to the beta I mentioned I was really worried about a whiny moronic COH player whom I was dreading to have come play with us?
I'll give you three guesses as to whom that player is.
Hint: Not kinder.
And yet when I called you out for contributing nothing but personal attacks in a thread, ever, no one came to your defense.
Personally I'd rather be the guy who rationally critiques blatant problems with games than the fangirl who runs around personally attacking anyone who questions his favorite game of the month.
So spoiler alert guys, remember prior to the beta I mentioned I was really worried about a whiny moronic COH player whom I was dreading to have come play with us?
I'll give you three guesses as to whom that player is.
Hint: Not kinder.
And yet when I called you out for contributing nothing but personal attacks in a thread, ever, no one came to your defense.
Personally I'd rather be the guy who rationally critiques blatant problems with games than the fangirl who runs around personally attacking anyone who questions his favorite game of the month.
You seem to be taking this thread a bit too seriously.
And Marines are fine. Just need a little tweaking, really. Nothing you can't play past.
KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
I never had a tac squad run into melee. I must be lucky.
Also,turrets are worse than garrisoned buildings.
Also,buildings don't provide cover, they completely shield a unit from damage,you just damage the building.
I never had a tac squad run into melee. I must be lucky.
Also,turrets are worse than garrisoned buildings.
Also,buildings don't provide cover, they completely shield a unit from damage,you just damage the building.
Not true. Concentrated fire will kill units inside.
Is there any way to exit the "Waiting for players" loading screen without actually alt tabbing and killing the game? Because sometimes it sits on waiting for players forever.
So spoiler alert guys, remember prior to the beta I mentioned I was really worried about a whiny moronic COH player whom I was dreading to have come play with us?
I'll give you three guesses as to whom that player is.
Hint: Not kinder.
And yet when I called you out for contributing nothing but personal attacks in a thread, ever, no one came to your defense.
Personally I'd rather be the guy who rationally critiques blatant problems with games than the fangirl who runs around personally attacking anyone who questions his favorite game of the month.
You seem to be taking this thread a bit too seriously.
And Marines are fine. Just need a little tweaking, really. Nothing you can't play past.
Who said Marines aren't fine? I love them, and Kinder just got his 100th win with them (w00t!).
The problems I listed about the game apply to every army and every hero and every strategy. It's a DOW game with a huge resource and pop cap nerf while at the same time being a CoH game with a huge penalty on death, low unit survivability, and a massive decrease in tactics due to the prior two.
The kicker for the whole thing is that they made it so each side has a pathetic few number of units with a simplistic tech tree, zero base management, a simplistic resource system, and no territory control ala CoH. The rationale for them gutting all those strategic elements out was to "focus on combat", but with combat lasting 1/10th as long - they gutted the "in-combat" strategy as well.
TekDragon on
0
KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
I never had a tac squad run into melee. I must be lucky.
Also,turrets are worse than garrisoned buildings.
Also,buildings don't provide cover, they completely shield a unit from damage,you just damage the building.
Not true. Concentrated fire will kill units inside.
Hm,never had that happen, but I'll trust you on this.
Also Kinder, you are awesome and crazy. I wouldn't even have 100 games played after a YEAR.
The threads already provided you with like three different ways you could have handled that situation properly Tek.
Its not a "blatent problem" that grenades dont do as much damage as you seem to want.
And yet, despite you not even attempting to argue that you're an ass hole who contributes nothing, the fact remains that the only 2 counters provided in the thread are:
1. Spending 750 resources and 135 energy to get to tier 2 and get a dreadnought.
2. Avoiding the area.
Now, I don't know about you, but that's a HUGE leap backwards in strategic depth from CoH. Can anyone even count all the ways there were to clear a MG from a building in CoH? I can count a dozen off the top of my head without even trying - and yet the MG was STILL a powerful tool.
I realize that pointing out these flaws with DoW2, while being obvious, isn't going to go over well with a few people here. There's die hard fan boys in EVERY game, and this one is no exception. But the fact remains that the strategic combat of DoW2 has been gutted.
I'd love to hear some rationale explanations of how I'm wrong - but really all I expect is personal attacks.
YOU CAN NOT EXPECT TO COUNTER A UNIT WITH A UNIT IN AN RTS. THERE ARE TOO MANY OTHER VARIABLES. THESE CAN INCLUDE: RESOURCE DENIAL, FLANKING MANEUVERS, DIFFERENT BUILD ORDERS, VICTORY POINT PLAY, HARD AND SOFT COUNTERS, ETC ETC. I AM NOT BEING ANGRY MY CAPS LOCK IS STUCK.
Posts
You're a winner.
But yeah, so far, every race i've played (All of them, sans Eldar.) seem to have shitty anti-garrison abilities pre-T2. Those flamers don't do crap against someone who actually puts a unit that has suppression capabilities in a building. In addition to that, I had a tactical squad hose down a building for a good ten seconds, and i'm ninety nine percent sure that it didn't kill anyone, or even really hurt anything in there. Though maybe that was a bug. I haven't used flamers since.
And Marines generally tend to suck against vehicles. Dreadnaughts, plasma cannons, and Predators are their only true hard counters against them and one of them isn't even really AV.
Marine missile launchers don't do crap in damage as well, unless it's a tank type unit and they hit the rear armor. By the time you get your second round off, if the player is smart, he'll just have the vehicle in question melee the crap out of the enemy, making it useless. You really need two of them to do anything. That's rather tough, since tactical squads are insanely expensive, and unless you hold off on upgrading your first squad, you'll probably need to build a third one.
I know multiplayer's graphics are typically downgraded a little bit for stability, but the single player will look prime.
I got G&T for my game nerd fix
and SE++ to hear about a Japanese manga superhero called "Rapeman" whose motto is "righting wrongs through penetration"
Assault marine squads ftw.
Just saying.
Perfect counters don't work.
From what i've seen they do about 1/4 of it's health. Any player who's paying attention to his units would have the thing go into melee range as soon as the missile was launched.
It'd be even worse if you were up against venerable dreadnaughts, since they can hulk out and charge you, and the charge can tear through any barricades/minor buildings/heavy cover/infantry in the way.
I'll give you three guesses as to whom that player is.
Hint: Not kinder.
As for the question about point control - a medium to large sized army (not even counting at pop cap, just 50+ pop) results in a sub 200 manpower income, often closer to 100. If your enemy loses his army he's at a 300 income. This gives him 3x the resource income to build an army that is a PERFECT counter for yours. The inability to push in after a major win and cripple your enemy (or finish him off) is game-breaking. Every other RTS lets you capitalize on a win by "breaking your opponent's back". In this game, you cannot break your opponent. You just push him off the field momentarily.
Except that the AI is garbage and ordering a tac marine with a missile launcher to attack an enemy armor will result in your tac marine running (sorry, wrong word. walking) right up to the target, where it promptly engages in melee combat and dies quickly.
Yes, I realize this bug has been reported 10,000 times - but I'm worried. Over the 2 year course of CoH they've NEVER ONCE fixed an infantry AI bug despite thousands of bug reports. I don't know if they're capable of fixing AI problems once a game goes live.
And yet when I called you out for contributing nothing but personal attacks in a thread, ever, no one came to your defense.
Personally I'd rather be the guy who rationally critiques blatant problems with games than the fangirl who runs around personally attacking anyone who questions his favorite game of the month.
You seem to be taking this thread a bit too seriously.
And Marines are fine. Just need a little tweaking, really. Nothing you can't play past.
about VIDEOGAMES
Its not a "blatent problem" that grenades dont do as much damage as you seem to want.
Also,turrets are worse than garrisoned buildings.
Also,buildings don't provide cover, they completely shield a unit from damage,you just damage the building.
Not true. Concentrated fire will kill units inside.
Who said Marines aren't fine? I love them, and Kinder just got his 100th win with them (w00t!).
The problems I listed about the game apply to every army and every hero and every strategy. It's a DOW game with a huge resource and pop cap nerf while at the same time being a CoH game with a huge penalty on death, low unit survivability, and a massive decrease in tactics due to the prior two.
The kicker for the whole thing is that they made it so each side has a pathetic few number of units with a simplistic tech tree, zero base management, a simplistic resource system, and no territory control ala CoH. The rationale for them gutting all those strategic elements out was to "focus on combat", but with combat lasting 1/10th as long - they gutted the "in-combat" strategy as well.
Hm,never had that happen, but I'll trust you on this.
Also Kinder, you are awesome and crazy. I wouldn't even have 100 games played after a YEAR.
Dareth.. should I be honored? Oh god SM are going to be nerfed now.
And yet, despite you not even attempting to argue that you're an ass hole who contributes nothing, the fact remains that the only 2 counters provided in the thread are:
1. Spending 750 resources and 135 energy to get to tier 2 and get a dreadnought.
2. Avoiding the area.
Now, I don't know about you, but that's a HUGE leap backwards in strategic depth from CoH. Can anyone even count all the ways there were to clear a MG from a building in CoH? I can count a dozen off the top of my head without even trying - and yet the MG was STILL a powerful tool.
I realize that pointing out these flaws with DoW2, while being obvious, isn't going to go over well with a few people here. There's die hard fan boys in EVERY game, and this one is no exception. But the fact remains that the strategic combat of DoW2 has been gutted.
I'd love to hear some rationale explanations of how I'm wrong - but really all I expect is personal attacks.
100 wins! Yay!
Man, the guys who were watching your game are in no position to be nerfing anything.
I'll accept that, seeing as how I'm really bitter that I just had to cancel a pre-order I made for a game I've been looking forward to for months.