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Needs more gigawatts! [Computer power supply]

It BurnsIt Burns Registered User regular
edited January 2009 in Help / Advice Forum
I'm currently in the process of upgrading my computer.

Just bought a XFX geforce 9800GTX+ and Intel Core2duo E8400. Can't remember the motherboard's model as I'm not home but it's a X38 chipset from Asus.

Now, the thing is, I have a 550W powersupply which currently gives me all the gigawatts I need. However on the graphics card box it says Nvidia recommends a power supply of 450W or more, and XFX recommends 630W or more.

Would running the card with my currect powersupply result in explosions or something similar? Or just a loss in performance until I can get it the juice it needs?

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Posts

  • theclamtheclam Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    If it's not enough power, what will happen is that your computer will turn off in the middle of intensive use (i.e. when you're playing games). It's unlikely to do permanent damage.

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  • shadydentistshadydentist Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Wouldn't this severely shorten the lifespan of your power supply?

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    theclam wrote: »
    If it's not enough power, what will happen is that your computer will turn off in the middle of intensive use (i.e. when you're playing games). It's unlikely to do permanent damage.

    Or, alternately, long hours of use at near or over rated capacity will eventually lead your power supply to die sometime down the road.

    And when it dies, it may take something with it.

    The "turn off in the middle" thing will only happen if you greatly exceed rated capacity. If you're merely "pushing it to the limit" or a little beyond it will continue to work right up until it doesn't.

    EDIT: If it runs without issue at the moment, I wouldn't worry about upgrading the power supply immediately. Like, you can use your shit tonight and you'll be fine. But I'd recommend upgrading soon.

    mcdermott on
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Not to mention that as power supplies approach their rated limit, they can start to have voltage irregularities (The higher the quality of the power supply, the less likely this will happen, but cheap power supplies can start to fluctuate well below their rated wattage). This is a good way to destablize your computer and/or damage hardware. 550w is probably fine, but if it were me, I'd get the upgraded power supply.

    Nova_C on
  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Let me clear up some misconceptions/lack of clarity about power supplies: Overall wattage is not an adequate measure to determine the capability of a power supply. Overall wattage can be measured different ways, is subject to fudging by the manufacturer, and is not an accurate way to determine if your power supply is "good enough" for your system. At best, it's a rough ballpark figure.

    And yeah, you might just experience stability problems if you aren't giving your system enough juice, but that's not good, either, is it? And as mcdermott pointed out, it may result in your power supply essentially blowing up and taking shit out when it goes.

    So. What you really need to look at when determining the suitability (or lack thereof) of a power supply is the amperage on the 12V rails. And it's more complicated than just finding some manufacturer-supplied specification, usually, because manufacturers have started obfuscating the issue by including multiple 12V rails on one power supply.

    So here's what you do. If you look on your PSU's sticker, you'll probably see the 12V rails marked as 12V1, 12V2, etc. The safest way to figure out the overall amperage across all of these 12V rails is to find out how many watts are distributed across them (and only them, not the entire power supply). This wattage figure is often marked somewhere on the PSU's sticker. Here are a couple examples:

    antec_earthwatts_ea-380.jpg

    silverstoneact_nameplate.jpg

    Okay, so now you've got the wattage distributed across your 12V rails. Let's take the first example (the Antec): 324 watts. Now you divide this by 12, and you've got the amperage. So the Antec power supply has 27A on the 12V rails.

    Now the last step: Figure out how many amps your video card requires. Hitting up a Newegg page for an eVGA 9800GTX+ and going to specifications reveals the following:
    Minimum of a 450 Watt power supply.
    (Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 24 Amp Amps.)
    Minimum 550 Watt for SLI mode system.
    (Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 30 Amp Amps.)

    Not all manufacturers provide this information so up-front, but eVGA is usually pretty good about it, and video cards based on the same chipset (in this case the 9800GTX+) should have similar power consumption, assuming they're not the kind that comes overclocked.

    I usually look for a power supply that goes at least a few amps over the recommended minimum, because I don't like the idea of putting stress on my PSU over the long term. As mcdermott said, it's risky and not a very good idea. Don't take chances with the power supply, it is the one part that has a strong capacity for fucking over your whole system if it dies.

    OremLK on
    My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    ^ Good stuff.

    Seriously, I have little to add.

    I was actually in a similar situation recently, only somewhat reversed...I was looking for a card, and unable to upgrade my power supply. So I had to look around and make my choice based on these same principles.

    And seriously, if you're pushing your power supply at its maximum or over it, you're going to wind up replacing it anyway. Might as well just get it out of the way and avoid the risk of other damage.

    If you're not pushing the power supply to or over its maximum, then I guess you're golden! :P

    mcdermott on
  • RNEMESiS42RNEMESiS42 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Recently my power supply fried, and I replaced it with an Antec Neo Power 550. I've been looking to upgrade my graphics card to a Geforce 9800GTX...would I be in the same boat as this guy? I just spent 80 bucks on a new power supply two months ago...

    EDIT: Haven't refreshed this thread since earlier today and just saw OremLK's post...I'm going to go do some research!

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  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    If Google images has served me well, the 550-watt model of the Neo HE has 42 amps on the +12V rails and should be perfectly fine for a 9800GTX+.

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    My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
  • RNEMESiS42RNEMESiS42 Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Cool, I just did the math on my own and it worked out, thanks for the response though : D Now I can finally play HL2: Episode 2 and TF2 on sexy settings without dealing with a choppy headache...(still have a Geforce 6200 from almost four years ago embarrassingly...)

    RNEMESiS42 on
    my apartment looks upside down from there
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  • It BurnsIt Burns Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Thanks guys, that's really helpful. I tought all I needed was more power. I'll start looking around for a powersupply that fits my needs.

    I also looked around abit more and I must have not be paying attention when I first read it but the needed information is actually on the box.
    Nvidia minimum power supply requirements
    -Minimum 450W or greater system power supply (with a minimum 12V current rating of 24A)

    XFX recommended power supply requirements
    -Non-SLI: 630W or greater

    I read both bolded parts as recommended and was confused.


    Edit: I've been looking around but I can't find information regarding the Wattage on the 12V rails as shown in the pictures above for any of the power supplies that I'm considering. All I can find is the other stuff on the sticker, for example:

    +3.3V - 24A
    +5 - 30A
    +12V1 - 18A
    +12V2 - 18A
    +12V3 - 18A
    +12V4 - 20A
    -12V - 0.5A
    +5VSB - 2.2A


    Edit 2: @ OremLK - In your example we see that the output is 27A on the 12V rails, however the sticker also shows a maximum of 17A. I'm assuming that a graphics card can use more than one 12V rail to get it's power, so if a graphics card needs 24A it can just get those from multiple rails. Am I on the right track here?

    Also, I've found a couple of power supplies with only one 12V rail, is this a good or a bad thing? the maximum amperage on that thing is huge D:

    Edit 3: Oh god, just opened the 9800GTX+ and this thing is huge. Easily more than twice as large as the ard it's replacing.

    It Burns on
    The slowest painter. Ever.
  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    When a card states its minimum required amperage, that's not just for the card, that's for the whole system (the manufacturer is guesstimating about what else you'll have in it). And yeah, the card can definitely get power from more than one rail, if the PSU even has more than one rail--often even when they say they have multiple rails they still only have one!

    If you want recommendations on the power supply please feel free to ask. Any reliable company I have seen should give you the information you're looking for on the sticker. If they don't, that's not a good sign as to the quality of the PSU manufacturer. Look at power supplies from Corsair, SeaSonic, Antec, Silverstone, PC Power & Cooling, and FSP. Avoid power supplies from CoolMax, Rosewill, Thermaltake, OCZ, etc etc. (I'm not saying the latter will have problems, just that there is a higher likelihood.)

    One 12V rail is fine and is probably ideal in my opinion.

    OremLK on
    My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
  • It BurnsIt Burns Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I've been eyeing a Corsair TX650W, I've been checking out their website and I think it's pretty good for my needs. It's that single rail power supply I mentioned in my previous post. I'll have to throw down more money than I expected tough.

    I don't have much stuff plugged into the motherboard or peripherals so I'm assuming I'll be okay with the 650W.

    I did see a 700W power supply at a nice price, but it has 4 rails and I have yet to find information regarding the actual amperage on those. It's a NOX URANO 700W SLI PFC 14CM, never heard of that brand before but it would save me roughly €20. I'm more inclined to think that it's better to invest into the Corsair but if anyone has good stuff to say about them I'll really consider it. €20 is $26 for those wondering.

    It Burns on
    The slowest painter. Ever.
  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Yeah, I don't know about that brand so it may not be very reliable, who knows. With a 9800GTX+ (and not too much other shit in your system) you'd probably actually be okay with this:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139003

    Which is not too expensive, really. Looks like it has 33 amps on a single +12V rail. There's also:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007

    With 34A for about the same price.

    OremLK on
    My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I have a Corsair 620w modular power supply for my Athlon X2 6000+ that runs 3 hard drives in a striped raid (So all three are working all the time) and an overclocked GeForce 8800GTS. Corsair power supplies are pretty solid, so far as I can tell. 1.5 years and my computer has always been rock solid.

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  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Yep, Corsair is great.

    OremLK on
    My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    OremLK wrote: »
    Yep, Corsair is great.

    They make sexy equipment too. And if you can afford to get a modular, do it, it reduces cable clutter so much.

    Nova_C on
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