DomhnallMinty D. Vision!ScotlandRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
I think everyone needs to remember what Hockey Johnston said.
The totem pole defence of NM4 is utterly shit. Everyone can get slashed at once and if a hunter manages to pounce is it's hard to knock him off and even if you do it's hard to melee him in there so you have to randomly shoot down through the no cliping bodies of all 4 survivors.
Domhnall on
Xbox Live - Minty D Vision Steam - Minty D. Vision! Origin/BF3 - MintyDVision
Valve need to change up the infected, not the level design. Otherwise they'd have to remove every corner from the maps.
Really, what needs to happen is the smokers tongue is able to shoot through normal zombies, and somebody dragged by the tongue will be pulled through a horde. The horde of infected should part to allow the smoked guy to be dragged through, then they'd close up behind him cutting him off from the rest of the survivors.
That way special infected have a reliable way to pull someone out of a corner stack.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Valve need to change up the infected, not the level design. Otherwise they'd have to remove every corner from the maps.
Really, what needs to happen is the smokers tongue is able to shoot through normal zombies, and somebody dragged by the tongue will be pulled through a horde. The horde of infected should part to allow the smoked guy to be dragged through, then they'd close up behind him cutting him off from the rest of the survivors.
That way special infected have a reliable way to pull someone out of a corner stack.
if the infected part like the red sea wont that give a very easy line of sight to shoot the smoker?
Also as a hunter last night i pounced in the totem and for all the meleeing in the world they couldnt get me off, rare when it happens but funny
Valve need to change up the infected, not the level design. Otherwise they'd have to remove every corner from the maps.
Really, what needs to happen is the smokers tongue is able to shoot through normal zombies, and somebody dragged by the tongue will be pulled through a horde. The horde of infected should part to allow the smoked guy to be dragged through, then they'd close up behind him cutting him off from the rest of the survivors.
That way special infected have a reliable way to pull someone out of a corner stack.
if the infected part like the red sea wont that give a very easy line of sight to shoot the smoker?
Also as a hunter last night i pounced in the totem and for all the meleeing in the world they couldnt get me off, rare when it happens but funny
No, he means that the zombies part to let the human through, but the Smoker is always shielded from being hit.
Seems like it would overpower the Smoker a bit too much.
Willeth on
@vgreminders - Don't miss out on timed events in gaming! @gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
Valve need to change up the infected, not the level design. Otherwise they'd have to remove every corner from the maps.
Really, what needs to happen is the smokers tongue is able to shoot through normal zombies, and somebody dragged by the tongue will be pulled through a horde. The horde of infected should part to allow the smoked guy to be dragged through, then they'd close up behind him cutting him off from the rest of the survivors.
That way special infected have a reliable way to pull someone out of a corner stack.
if the infected part like the red sea wont that give a very easy line of sight to shoot the smoker?
Also as a hunter last night i pounced in the totem and for all the meleeing in the world they couldnt get me off, rare when it happens but funny
No, because they would part only to allowed the dragged guy through.
Where - is infected horde
Smoker - - - - - - - - - []- - - survivors
Smoker - - - - - - - [] - - - - - survivors
etc.
The dragged guy is completely surrounded, but isntead of blocking the drag and having him held there being hit the ones in his path are shoved aside so he can be pulled through.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Valve need to change up the infected, not the level design. Otherwise they'd have to remove every corner from the maps.
Really, what needs to happen is the smokers tongue is able to shoot through normal zombies, and somebody dragged by the tongue will be pulled through a horde. The horde of infected should part to allow the smoked guy to be dragged through, then they'd close up behind him cutting him off from the rest of the survivors.
That way special infected have a reliable way to pull someone out of a corner stack.
if the infected part like the red sea wont that give a very easy line of sight to shoot the smoker?
Also as a hunter last night i pounced in the totem and for all the meleeing in the world they couldnt get me off, rare when it happens but funny
No, he means that the zombies part to let the human through, but the Smoker is always shielded from being hit.
Seems like it would overpower the Smoker a bit too much.
If by overpower you mean useful outside of snaring the last guy to jump down the sewer. It's not like there will always be 60 infected around. What it would do is make the crescendo events potentially be difficult. Like they're supposed to be. Like Valve genuinely believes the crescendo events are hard, listen to the commentary.
'a survivor team that doesn't utilise the minigun won't fare very well!' LolValve and the fact they don't appear to play their own games. Melee stack in the corner gets you through without taking a hit.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
I mentioned it before, but how would you guys feel about melee being slowed down a bit if survivors are to close? That may help out with the corner defense that every versus crescendo has. Or maybe have freeing a survivor from a tongue take two punches instead of one.
Survivor escort was entertaining, getting owned by 1 infected (while we had an entire team of survivors) was hilarious. Just good times. I even had fun doing the campaign later on with Shultz, XombieNinja and.. shit... Rad? I dunno. But that campaign was fucking hilarious.
I think I enjoy this game way more when things go horribly wrong.
I mentioned it before, but how would you guys feel about melee being slowed down a bit if survivors are to close? That may help out with the corner defense that every versus crescendo has. Or maybe have freeing a survivor from a tongue take two punches instead of one.
The first idea sounds pretty great, actually... limit the use of melee if they're very close together, and that would help hunters get in there at the least.
The second idea might be too much of a change for the community. I can see a lot of people getting frustrated with it, but I do like the idea that it is harder to get the smoker's tongue off.
What if the survivor can only be melee'd if he is standing against a permanent and solid object (i.e. not a regular infected), which would get the survivors to actually seek out the smoker a bit more, giving him more time to do damage.
I've smoker'd a guy too many times and have him just prop up against the closest infected and be melee'd off instantly.
Icemopper on
0
Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
Survivor escort was entertaining, getting owned by 1 infected (while we had an entire team of survivors) was hilarious. Just good times. I even had fun doing the campaign later on with Shultz, XombieNinja and.. shit... Rad? I dunno. But that campaign was fucking hilarious.
I think I enjoy this game way more when things go horribly wrong.
"Noooooo!!! MY HEALTHKIT!!!!"
In all fairness, it was one infected, a witch (you) and a well-placed elevator shaft (me)
edit: i don't know why, but having shit fall apart makes the game so much more fun.
i guess the excitement of not knowing what the hell you're gonna do or something.
or just getting to act like a tard.
Who knows. We should do that again though.
edit 2: being stuck at work and reading all of this makes me want to go home and play. stupid bank job. also stupid computer repair side job making me go to people's houses.
Valve need to change up the infected, not the level design. Otherwise they'd have to remove every corner from the maps.
Really, what needs to happen is the smokers tongue is able to shoot through normal zombies, and somebody dragged by the tongue will be pulled through a horde. The horde of infected should part to allow the smoked guy to be dragged through, then they'd close up behind him cutting him off from the rest of the survivors.
That way special infected have a reliable way to pull someone out of a corner stack.
I like this idea a lot. Even with the recent changes the smoker is still useless in many situations. This would make him much more useful.
I really think they should give players a reason to use the huge machine gun instead of surviving a huge mob of undead by backing into corners and punching infected duders in the face.
I mean, I've seen Hunters get away after being knocked off and shot at, but I've never seen one escape the brutal fury of Zoey punching him four times. The stun on meleed infected is crazy.
I think the shove should have a much narrower area of effect, instead of producing what appears to be a massive blast of force every time you use it. It doesn't work very well even now if you're actually surrounded; they need to narrow it further so that if you're in a corner, even if you're with other survivors, you can only shove two at a time at most.
one idea would be to make the smokers tongue stronger, its far too week as it is in my opinion, unless timed right, when there is a straggler or a very acute angle the smoker in my opinion (except perhaps on nm4 if he can incap them off the roof) is the weakest of the infected
I think the shove should have a much narrower area of effect, instead of producing what appears to be a massive blast of force every time you use it. It doesn't work very well even now if you're actually surrounded; they need to narrow it further so that if you're in a corner, even if you're with other survivors, you can only shove two at a time at most.
Or just slow it down, dramatically.
How about they give each survivor a fatigue bar that drains as you melee shove, and you have to stop and rest to regain it. At 100% your melee swings act as they do now, the cone of force like you said, but the lower the fatigue bar gets, the less damage the shoves do, the fewer infected they hit and the shorter the distance you shove them back gets.
It would also be cool if they could somehow balance that for a jog/sprint mechanic as well, it would make things a bit more interesting in VS because teams couldn't simply sprint to the end in some cases, and it would make players actually have to stop and rest for a second.
All this would be tough to balance though, especially for co-op.
They should make hunter in versus like in co-op. I've been playing a lot of co-op lately and I notice that hunters can scratch you while you are meleeing them. If I treat them as versus hunters I usually get scratched at least once.
I think the shove should have a much narrower area of effect, instead of producing what appears to be a massive blast of force every time you use it. It doesn't work very well even now if you're actually surrounded; they need to narrow it further so that if you're in a corner, even if you're with other survivors, you can only shove two at a time at most.
Or just slow it down, dramatically.
How about they give each survivor a fatigue bar that drains as you melee shove, and you have to stop and rest to regain it. At 100% your melee swings act as they do now, the cone of force like you said, but the lower the fatigue bar gets, the less damage the shoves do, the fewer infected they hit and the shorter the distance you shove them back gets.
It would also be cool if they could somehow balance that for a jog/sprint mechanic as well, it would make things a bit more interesting in VS because teams couldn't simply sprint to the end in some cases, and it would make players actually have to stop and rest for a second.
All this would be tough to balance though, especially for co-op.
That would be a major change to the game, and one that I don't think Valve would be willing to commit to. Just slowing down the shove, making it twice as slow, would be a good fix i think.
Don't know if this has been said before but what if melee did FF damage? Wouldn't that kind of, ya know, fix everything?
Considering FF in VS is negligible at best, I fail to see how that would work unless it was the equivalent of a shotgun blast. Even a minimal amount x3 wouldn’t be much of a deterrent.
Slowing it down, or adding a fatigue bar, would be a good solution.
Don't know if this has been said before but what if melee did FF damage? Wouldn't that kind of, ya know, fix everything?
No, it would just introduce another method of griefing.
ed: If they want to eliminate survivors huddling in corners, they need to make it so players can't stand inside each other.
And that would be what exactly? If you can already shoot another player I don't think melee friendly fire griefing is going to exacerbate anything. Although, you are right that removing the player/player noclip would probably be just as effective.
Freakle on
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Don't know if this has been said before but what if melee did FF damage? Wouldn't that kind of, ya know, fix everything?
No, it would just introduce another method of griefing.
As opposed to people just being able to shoot each other? Melee damage would be a perfectly reasonable way to keep people from jamming together in corners. Just make it do a couple HP of damage and people won't be so keen on mashing together into corners. Sure, a single melee attack isn't a big deal, but 4 survivors standing in a corner constantly mashing the melee attack would damage themselves pretty badly. I don't see how FF melees would be any worse than giving potential griefers a shotgun so they can knock 10+ health off of you with each blast.
I think a better method would be to make player/player melee temporarily stun the melee'd player. Kind of like a reload, or similar to the effect of a Hunter/Smoker/Tank standing next to a Boomer when it explodes.
I think a better method would be to make player/player melee temporarily stun the melee'd player. Kind of like a reload, or similar to the effect of a Hunter/Smoker/Tank standing next to a Boomer when it explodes.
But then you would have people meleeing others off of ladders and places that would have fall damage. I mean, I like this idea best of all but I see it going horribly wrong.
YourFatAuntSusan on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I think a better method would be to make player/player melee temporarily stun the melee'd player. Kind of like a reload, or similar to the effect of a Hunter/Smoker/Tank standing next to a Boomer when it explodes.
See, now THAT would have some serious griefer potential. Griefers can already shoot you, so why not also let them push you over edges or stun you so the tank can catch up? The fact that you wouldn't be able to even resist a determined greifer due to be repeatedly stunned makes things even better.
I think a better method would be to make player/player melee temporarily stun the melee'd player. Kind of like a reload, or similar to the effect of a Hunter/Smoker/Tank standing next to a Boomer when it explodes.
But then you would have people meleeing others off of ladders and places that would have fall damage. I mean, I like this idea best of all but I see it going horribly wrong.
I never said push. It would be like that effect, i.e. you can't attack for a few seconds.
I think a better method would be to make player/player melee temporarily stun the melee'd player. Kind of like a reload, or similar to the effect of a Hunter/Smoker/Tank standing next to a Boomer when it explodes.
See, now THAT would have some serious griefer potential. Griefers can already shoot you, so why not also let them push you over edges or stun you so the tank can catch up? The fact that you wouldn't be able to even resist a determined greifer due to be repeatedly stunned makes things even better.
So here's my two theories for what Survival might be:
a) One continuous horde, with unlimited ammo available to the survivors. No special infected either. Games would probably last only a few minutes but considering the hour-long structure of the rest of the game this seems unlikely.
b) Left 4 Dead's take on Gears 2's horde mode. Survivors would have unlimited ammo, but only one medkit per survivor. Survivors would have time to ready themselves before the next wave. Special infected spawn at the same rate they do in vs, 30 seconds after the last one dies.
Also, I think a cool idea would be if you only fought special infected. Survivors would have to be aware of their surroundings to stop themselves from simultaneously being ensnared/pounced.
I just hope it doesn't wind up with people just finding the best corner to defend for an hour.
That could be circumvented if the point of survival mode was moving and not staying put. But hell, my opinion's in the minority here, obviously people like the idea of an endless finale.
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a Gears 2 style horde mode? The level has to end eventually, so it would basically just be campaign with a time limit.
Unless you were forced to run back and forth or lose health otherwise, which would be irritating.
I think a better method would be to make player/player melee temporarily stun the melee'd player. Kind of like a reload, or similar to the effect of a Hunter/Smoker/Tank standing next to a Boomer when it explodes.
But then you would have people meleeing others off of ladders and places that would have fall damage. I mean, I like this idea best of all but I see it going horribly wrong.
I never said push. It would be like that effect, i.e. you can't attack for a few seconds.
Survivor escort was entertaining, getting owned by 1 infected (while we had an entire team of survivors) was hilarious. Just good times. I even had fun doing the campaign later on with Shultz, XombieNinja and.. shit... Rad? I dunno. But that campaign was fucking hilarious.
I think I enjoy this game way more when things go horribly wrong.
"Noooooo!!! MY HEALTHKIT!!!!"
I think I was the 4th guy. Are you referring to the NM Advanced campaign where one of us was trying not to heal for the campaign, but everything kind of fell apart by NM4? If so, that was me.
As for the 1 infected v 4 survivors, the best part was the fact that I was smoker for the large majority of that.
I think a better method would be to make player/player melee temporarily stun the melee'd player. Kind of like a reload, or similar to the effect of a Hunter/Smoker/Tank standing next to a Boomer when it explodes.
But then you would have people meleeing others off of ladders and places that would have fall damage. I mean, I like this idea best of all but I see it going horribly wrong.
I never said push. It would be like that effect, i.e. you can't attack for a few seconds.
Posts
The totem pole defence of NM4 is utterly shit. Everyone can get slashed at once and if a hunter manages to pounce is it's hard to knock him off and even if you do it's hard to melee him in there so you have to randomly shoot down through the no cliping bodies of all 4 survivors.
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Really, what needs to happen is the smokers tongue is able to shoot through normal zombies, and somebody dragged by the tongue will be pulled through a horde. The horde of infected should part to allow the smoked guy to be dragged through, then they'd close up behind him cutting him off from the rest of the survivors.
That way special infected have a reliable way to pull someone out of a corner stack.
if the infected part like the red sea wont that give a very easy line of sight to shoot the smoker?
Also as a hunter last night i pounced in the totem and for all the meleeing in the world they couldnt get me off, rare when it happens but funny
and for all we know it could send zombies in ever increasing waves. can't wait for the 4 tank wave.
No, he means that the zombies part to let the human through, but the Smoker is always shielded from being hit.
Seems like it would overpower the Smoker a bit too much.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
No, because they would part only to allowed the dragged guy through.
Where - is infected horde
Smoker - - - - - - - - - []- - - survivors
Smoker - - - - - - - [] - - - - - survivors
etc.
The dragged guy is completely surrounded, but isntead of blocking the drag and having him held there being hit the ones in his path are shoved aside so he can be pulled through.
I didn't even notice that error.
If by overpower you mean useful outside of snaring the last guy to jump down the sewer. It's not like there will always be 60 infected around. What it would do is make the crescendo events potentially be difficult. Like they're supposed to be. Like Valve genuinely believes the crescendo events are hard, listen to the commentary.
'a survivor team that doesn't utilise the minigun won't fare very well!' LolValve and the fact they don't appear to play their own games. Melee stack in the corner gets you through without taking a hit.
Survivor escort was entertaining, getting owned by 1 infected (while we had an entire team of survivors) was hilarious. Just good times. I even had fun doing the campaign later on with Shultz, XombieNinja and.. shit... Rad? I dunno. But that campaign was fucking hilarious.
I think I enjoy this game way more when things go horribly wrong.
"Noooooo!!! MY HEALTHKIT!!!!"
The first idea sounds pretty great, actually... limit the use of melee if they're very close together, and that would help hunters get in there at the least.
The second idea might be too much of a change for the community. I can see a lot of people getting frustrated with it, but I do like the idea that it is harder to get the smoker's tongue off.
What if the survivor can only be melee'd if he is standing against a permanent and solid object (i.e. not a regular infected), which would get the survivors to actually seek out the smoker a bit more, giving him more time to do damage.
I've smoker'd a guy too many times and have him just prop up against the closest infected and be melee'd off instantly.
In all fairness, it was one infected, a witch (you) and a well-placed elevator shaft (me)
edit: i don't know why, but having shit fall apart makes the game so much more fun.
i guess the excitement of not knowing what the hell you're gonna do or something.
or just getting to act like a tard.
Who knows. We should do that again though.
edit 2: being stuck at work and reading all of this makes me want to go home and play. stupid bank job. also stupid computer repair side job making me go to people's houses.
I like this idea a lot. Even with the recent changes the smoker is still useless in many situations. This would make him much more useful.
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I mean, I've seen Hunters get away after being knocked off and shot at, but I've never seen one escape the brutal fury of Zoey punching him four times. The stun on meleed infected is crazy.
Or just slow it down, dramatically.
How about they give each survivor a fatigue bar that drains as you melee shove, and you have to stop and rest to regain it. At 100% your melee swings act as they do now, the cone of force like you said, but the lower the fatigue bar gets, the less damage the shoves do, the fewer infected they hit and the shorter the distance you shove them back gets.
It would also be cool if they could somehow balance that for a jog/sprint mechanic as well, it would make things a bit more interesting in VS because teams couldn't simply sprint to the end in some cases, and it would make players actually have to stop and rest for a second.
All this would be tough to balance though, especially for co-op.
That would be a major change to the game, and one that I don't think Valve would be willing to commit to. Just slowing down the shove, making it twice as slow, would be a good fix i think.
Considering FF in VS is negligible at best, I fail to see how that would work unless it was the equivalent of a shotgun blast. Even a minimal amount x3 wouldn’t be much of a deterrent.
Slowing it down, or adding a fatigue bar, would be a good solution.
No, it would just introduce another method of griefing.
ed: If they want to eliminate survivors huddling in corners, they need to make it so players can't stand inside each other.
And that would be what exactly? If you can already shoot another player I don't think melee friendly fire griefing is going to exacerbate anything. Although, you are right that removing the player/player noclip would probably be just as effective.
As opposed to people just being able to shoot each other? Melee damage would be a perfectly reasonable way to keep people from jamming together in corners. Just make it do a couple HP of damage and people won't be so keen on mashing together into corners. Sure, a single melee attack isn't a big deal, but 4 survivors standing in a corner constantly mashing the melee attack would damage themselves pretty badly. I don't see how FF melees would be any worse than giving potential griefers a shotgun so they can knock 10+ health off of you with each blast.
TF2 had it so you could move through your teammates, but it would actively push you out as well.
2. Add suplex
3. Play it by ear.
But then you would have people meleeing others off of ladders and places that would have fall damage. I mean, I like this idea best of all but I see it going horribly wrong.
See, now THAT would have some serious griefer potential. Griefers can already shoot you, so why not also let them push you over edges or stun you so the tank can catch up? The fact that you wouldn't be able to even resist a determined greifer due to be repeatedly stunned makes things even better.
I never said push. It would be like that effect, i.e. you can't attack for a few seconds.
You can still move while reloading, yes?
Unless you were forced to run back and forth or lose health otherwise, which would be irritating.
That witch totally snuck up on me.
Left 4 ye dead?
That is the worst idea ever.
I think I was the 4th guy. Are you referring to the NM Advanced campaign where one of us was trying not to heal for the campaign, but everything kind of fell apart by NM4? If so, that was me.
As for the 1 infected v 4 survivors, the best part was the fact that I was smoker for the large majority of that.
You're the worst idea ever.