I doubt you scrubs are able to perceive these subtleties of strategy, but players like Kinderparty don't fight tooth and nail for every point at the start of the game.
I agree, that's why I wrote they typically seem to take 2 VP and 1 power node. The musical chairs is just the cat and mouse part of capping back req points, more for denial than anything else.
There's no "musical chairs" involved. I have to wonder what replays you were watching if you couldn't see this.
I see quite a few replays where req points change hands repeatedly. The only things I'm seeing top players bother regularly defending are power nodes (and harassing their opponents power node) and two of the VPs. The req node capping in 1vs1 (because to be honest, they aren't actually that significant, someone crunched the math and you get most of your req from your base and a few close by req nodes) is musical chairs because defending them actively isn't worth it, yet you don't want your opponent to hold onto all of them if you can spare a cheap capping unit.
Edit: I'd love to play some 3vs3 with PA people. Currently sitting around in game doing nothing much. I'm not sure if I can stay logged in for a full game though (Booted out by GFWL again sigh).
Anyway, since I just (ironically) crashed, back to what we were saying. I'm loving the 3v3 in DoW2 and it's the one thing I feel is a big improvement over 2v2 CoH. The maps are smaller and you find yourself constantly in back and forth fighting in 1v1's, 1v2's, 2v2's, 2v3's, and 3v3's depending on how vital the objective is.
With the fast teching bringing out quick wraiths, dreads, and deff dreads you don't see the platform/bolter spam and so far all the strategies that made me say "Wow" have been from 3v3 games.
This "musical chairs" horseshit needs to stop. Watch a replay of a game between good players. It's not musical chairs.
No, I have, it is.
So was the shifting of fronts in Company of Heroes "musical chairs"? I don't understand what you expect a player to do when he has the opportunity to capture a point other than capture it. Maybe you should defend your points more, as should your opponents.
In any case, stop crying about it. People who have played the game more than you don't see this as a problem.
Uh no, shifting fronts are shifting fronts, you just said so yourself. In so much as here is a front.
Although I do enjoy your guys fervent protection of a game in beta, I mean goomba and urian going off on someone giving helpful hint? Defensive much?
I mean, urian is urian, no helping that. I expect better from you, Goomba.
I interpreted it as him continuing to troll and talk about his dislike for a game that he plays all the time. It's annoying and hypocritical. But I was wrong and for that I apologize.
But hey, I am me, right? I don't even know who the fuck you are. I guess you're another one of my internet stalkers since you obviously know me so well, which rules because being popular on the internet is totally the new fad these days right.
Question to Nid players:
Do you feel T3 is worth it?
While I do find it satisfying watching a carnifex rip stuff apart, can't 2-3 warrior squads do the same thing with less cost?
I haven't really played with raveners enough to have an opinion of them, but I never find myself wanting to build these.
Caenem on
But you, pig, are a lucky one. Tell us what we wish to know, and you may yet keep your bacon.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Question to Nid players:
Do you feel T3 is worth it?
While I do find it satisfying watching a carnifex rip stuff apart, can't 2-3 warrior squads do the same thing with less cost?
I haven't really played with raveners enough to have an opinion of them, but I never find myself wanting to build these.
Well, I forget what the cost to tier 3 is but you're generally right. In a 1vs1 a carnifex is kinda over the top compared to adrenal warriors. But the Carnifex is a great T3 unit. I've never built any ravagers though, minding that's because the big stompy of the Carnifex makes it soooo good.
And you've hit the nail on the head with many of the problems with tier 3: There is usually one great unit and one unit you never build. For me, the Carnifex is just too good to pass up (it eats everything and is relatively able to defend itself against AV).
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
Musical chairs on standard points: the lack of territories has less of an influence on this than the small map size, mixed with a faster capping speed. Overall control of the map should still tend towards the winning player, because fast units that you can separate from your force to cap are cheap for every side.
Musical chairs on victory points: really only a problem when both sides are evenly matched, and neither side has done a good job of preserving units. Two small forces will tend towards the skirmish and evasion tactics that result in dancing. It happened in CoH too, it was just a lot less common.
Both of these problems are exacerbated on the oft-hated jungle map, because it's more difficult to form a strong two-VP high-income front. Both sides have rapid access to two VPs, and trying to hold the most distant two forces your troops away from your base. Unless you have a large troop advantage, attrition will push you off the points and into dancing tactics.
This game slowly destroys my computer. After about 5-10 minutes in a match artifacts (I think that's the name for them) start flickering really fast across my screen until I can't see a thing. I have the settings on medium and I either meet or pass all the recommended system requirements. The only one I'm borderline on is RAM, and I've got the recommended 2 gigs. Anyone else having this problem?
Eldar is a terribad faction to learn to play the game with.
Surprise, AVATAR! is quite effective.
This isn't what I'd call an accessible game. Quick gameplay, combined with dozens of items, dozens of hero and unit abilities, means you're going to need to memorize a lot of shit to be anywhere near effective. Forget trying to read the tooltips in middle of combat.
I'm terrible at remembering to use my resources, I forget about them and they just pile up, like in every other RTS with resource management. Bad habit. Needs to die.
Grenades are wonky. That's a lot of clicking for little benefit.
Certainly a great game, don't know if it's my thing though. If I buy it or not depends on if I can become good enough to actually be competitive in 3v3 by the time beta's over.
Banshees may be overpowered, but Eldar tanks are incredibly underpowered.
You seem to have missed the memo, all the games tanks suck. The walkers are great though, but none of the tanks are worth building for an offensive purpose.
The exception is the razorback (situational however), because it's got a little more durability and it's great for transporting normally slow moving mans around. I can't get the same effectiveness out of the falcon though, dies to a sneeze.
To my fellow Kommando Nobz out there, what do you get for your third slot? I usualy go Shotty + Increased Energy pack + Proximitry bomb, but the bomb has been giving me trouble as of the last few games. I couldn't click it when a pack of gaunts ran over it due to it being obscured . I was thinking of giving the grenades another try, what is better then a stealthy Kommando with explosive shotgun shells and grenades mirite?
You seem to have missed the memo, all the games tanks suck. The walkers are great though, but none of the tanks are worth building for an offensive purpose.
The exception is the razorback (situational however), because it's got a little more durability and it's great for transporting normally slow moving mans around. I can't get the same effectiveness out of the falcon though, dies to a sneeze.
To my fellow Kommando Nobz out there, what do you get for your third slot? I usualy go Shotty + Increased Energy pack + Proximitry bomb, but the bomb has been giving me trouble as of the last few games. I couldn't click it when a pack of gaunts ran over it due to it being obscured . I was thinking of giving the grenades another try, what is better then a stealthy Kommando with explosive shotgun shells and grenades mirite?
You can switch between gear, so it's best to be flexible.
Sterica on
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
The Carnifex is an amazing shock unit. I always see it in 1v1s against Nids.
Have you ever seen anyone build raveners? I don't think I've seen them once.
They're an expensive, T3, utility unit. So no. That's my experience anyways. Their damage isn't high, they aren't particularly tough, and their special ability is to be sneaky at a time when the game has probably turned into a power war.
You seem to have missed the memo, all the games tanks suck. The walkers are great though, but none of the tanks are worth building for an offensive purpose.
The exception is the razorback (situational however), because it's got a little more durability and it's great for transporting normally slow moving mans around. I can't get the same effectiveness out of the falcon though, dies to a sneeze.
Eldar's are worse. So, so much worse.
At least the wraithlord is awesome though, it makes up for the shitty falcon/fire prism by far. Actually Walkers > Tanks in general anyway.
Not sure how to fix this really, because it's good vehicles aren't a "oh shit I haven't teched, gg" thing like Dawn of War.
To my fellow Kommando Nobz out there, what do you get for your third slot? I usualy go Shotty + Increased Energy pack + Proximitry bomb, but the bomb has been giving me trouble as of the last few games. I couldn't click it when a pack of gaunts ran over it due to it being obscured . I was thinking of giving the grenades another try, what is better then a stealthy Kommando with explosive shotgun shells and grenades mirite?
You can switch between gear, so it's best to be flexible.
Yes, but why spend extra req and energy when you don't have too! The Kommando nobz' other utiity option is setting up a huge bomb under his feet (which he uses to rokket jump away) which although hilarious... I have'nt found a use for it yet :
TheCrumblyCracker on
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
The Carnifex is an amazing shock unit. I always see it in 1v1s against Nids.
Have you ever seen anyone build raveners? I don't think I've seen them once.
They're an expensive, T3, utility unit. So no. That's my experience anyways. Their damage isn't high, they aren't particularly tough, and their special ability is to be sneaky at a time when the game has probably turned into a power war.
Lets face it, everyone wants to see the Carnifex run around and eat some doods. It has some entertaining sync kills (in the 1/100,000,000 chance you see one at the moment) as well.
Edit: Is there a new PA DOW group on live? Current one is full.
To my fellow Kommando Nobz out there, what do you get for your third slot? I usualy go Shotty + Increased Energy pack + Proximitry bomb, but the bomb has been giving me trouble as of the last few games. I couldn't click it when a pack of gaunts ran over it due to it being obscured . I was thinking of giving the grenades another try, what is better then a stealthy Kommando with explosive shotgun shells and grenades mirite?
You can switch between gear, so it's best to be flexible.
Yes, but why spend extra req and energy when you don't have too! The Kommando nobz' other utiity option is setting up a huge bomb under his feet (which he uses to rokket jump away) which although hilarious... I have'nt found a use for it yet :
I don't mean that you should just buy every piece of gear, but that you shouldn't develop a mindset that has you using specific gear each game.
To my fellow Kommando Nobz out there, what do you get for your third slot? I usualy go Shotty + Increased Energy pack + Proximitry bomb, but the bomb has been giving me trouble as of the last few games. I couldn't click it when a pack of gaunts ran over it due to it being obscured . I was thinking of giving the grenades another try, what is better then a stealthy Kommando with explosive shotgun shells and grenades mirite?
You can switch between gear, so it's best to be flexible.
Yes, but why spend extra req and energy when you don't have too! The Kommando nobz' other utiity option is setting up a huge bomb under his feet (which he uses to rokket jump away) which although hilarious... I have'nt found a use for it yet :
The suicide bomb does INCREDIBLE knockback to everything in the radius. Send the enemy commanders back home in style.
I've never had a Predator die I don't think and have always had great success with them. They make Tyranids splat good.
I'd be keen to see a replay. I've never seen any usage of tanks that haven't resulted in total lots of "teleport -> instant die" type things. Would be nice to see a predator do something other than become a wreck.
And on that note, I can't wait until wrecks are patched into the game. Help make the game feel more visceral like the original game.
Oh my god, I just had an incredible 1v1! Mek against an Apothecary that was Rank 25 w/ SM (I'm Rank 1 with Orks) He actually got a higher score, but I won by like 35 cap points. Only built one turret, too, haha. Also I didn't realize that Deffs are so hopeless against Dreads. The Looted Tank, on the other hand ...
Got this little beta and tried it out against an Easy and Normal CPU player. I'm really bad at RTS's, but this is one cool-ass game. I don't totally understand the strategy, though. Should you expand as much as possible, or only expand to what you can defend?
I'll try to get a replay if my game ever works again.
Games for Windows Live doing something to you?
I have tried playing several games, but I am confined to the AI it seems (though I might try again later). If the AI wasn't the equivalent of a dead trout in tactical thought I wouldn't mind
oh wow dow2 beta. I had no idea that there was going to even be an open beta. I'm getting it now. Can someone invite me to the steam group I'm sitting in the chat room.
Posts
Ouch, my e-pride.
edit:
should have caught that
I agree, that's why I wrote they typically seem to take 2 VP and 1 power node. The musical chairs is just the cat and mouse part of capping back req points, more for denial than anything else.
I see quite a few replays where req points change hands repeatedly. The only things I'm seeing top players bother regularly defending are power nodes (and harassing their opponents power node) and two of the VPs. The req node capping in 1vs1 (because to be honest, they aren't actually that significant, someone crunched the math and you get most of your req from your base and a few close by req nodes) is musical chairs because defending them actively isn't worth it, yet you don't want your opponent to hold onto all of them if you can spare a cheap capping unit.
Edit: I'd love to play some 3vs3 with PA people. Currently sitting around in game doing nothing much. I'm not sure if I can stay logged in for a full game though (Booted out by GFWL again sigh).
Let it go.
With the fast teching bringing out quick wraiths, dreads, and deff dreads you don't see the platform/bolter spam and so far all the strategies that made me say "Wow" have been from 3v3 games.
Surely you jest.
I interpreted it as him continuing to troll and talk about his dislike for a game that he plays all the time. It's annoying and hypocritical. But I was wrong and for that I apologize.
But hey, I am me, right? I don't even know who the fuck you are. I guess you're another one of my internet stalkers since you obviously know me so well, which rules because being popular on the internet is totally the new fad these days right.
Do you feel T3 is worth it?
While I do find it satisfying watching a carnifex rip stuff apart, can't 2-3 warrior squads do the same thing with less cost?
I haven't really played with raveners enough to have an opinion of them, but I never find myself wanting to build these.
Nemlock for online gaming
Well, I forget what the cost to tier 3 is but you're generally right. In a 1vs1 a carnifex is kinda over the top compared to adrenal warriors. But the Carnifex is a great T3 unit. I've never built any ravagers though, minding that's because the big stompy of the Carnifex makes it soooo good.
And you've hit the nail on the head with many of the problems with tier 3: There is usually one great unit and one unit you never build. For me, the Carnifex is just too good to pass up (it eats everything and is relatively able to defend itself against AV).
Musical chairs on victory points: really only a problem when both sides are evenly matched, and neither side has done a good job of preserving units. Two small forces will tend towards the skirmish and evasion tactics that result in dancing. It happened in CoH too, it was just a lot less common.
Both of these problems are exacerbated on the oft-hated jungle map, because it's more difficult to form a strong two-VP high-income front. Both sides have rapid access to two VPs, and trying to hold the most distant two forces your troops away from your base. Unless you have a large troop advantage, attrition will push you off the points and into dancing tactics.
Have you ever seen anyone build raveners? I don't think I've seen them once.
Eldar is a terribad faction to learn to play the game with.
Surprise, AVATAR! is quite effective.
This isn't what I'd call an accessible game. Quick gameplay, combined with dozens of items, dozens of hero and unit abilities, means you're going to need to memorize a lot of shit to be anywhere near effective. Forget trying to read the tooltips in middle of combat.
I'm terrible at remembering to use my resources, I forget about them and they just pile up, like in every other RTS with resource management. Bad habit. Needs to die.
Grenades are wonky. That's a lot of clicking for little benefit.
Certainly a great game, don't know if it's my thing though. If I buy it or not depends on if I can become good enough to actually be competitive in 3v3 by the time beta's over.
Also I build raveners once. They are like the Tyranid answer to ASM / Stormboyz except they go underground instead of over!
Edit: Grenades are fuckawesome.
You seem to have missed the memo, all the games tanks suck. The walkers are great though, but none of the tanks are worth building for an offensive purpose.
The exception is the razorback (situational however), because it's got a little more durability and it's great for transporting normally slow moving mans around. I can't get the same effectiveness out of the falcon though, dies to a sneeze.
They're an expensive, T3, utility unit. So no. That's my experience anyways. Their damage isn't high, they aren't particularly tough, and their special ability is to be sneaky at a time when the game has probably turned into a power war.
At least the wraithlord is awesome though, it makes up for the shitty falcon/fire prism by far. Actually Walkers > Tanks in general anyway.
Not sure how to fix this really, because it's good vehicles aren't a "oh shit I haven't teched, gg" thing like Dawn of War.
Yes, but why spend extra req and energy when you don't have too! The Kommando nobz' other utiity option is setting up a huge bomb under his feet (which he uses to rokket jump away) which although hilarious... I have'nt found a use for it yet :
Lets face it, everyone wants to see the Carnifex run around and eat some doods. It has some entertaining sync kills (in the 1/100,000,000 chance you see one at the moment) as well.
Edit: Is there a new PA DOW group on live? Current one is full.
The suicide bomb does INCREDIBLE knockback to everything in the radius. Send the enemy commanders back home in style.
I'd be keen to see a replay. I've never seen any usage of tanks that haven't resulted in total lots of "teleport -> instant die" type things. Would be nice to see a predator do something other than become a wreck.
And on that note, I can't wait until wrecks are patched into the game. Help make the game feel more visceral like the original game.
PSN/XBL: dragoniemx
Games for Windows Live doing something to you?
I have tried playing several games, but I am confined to the AI it seems (though I might try again later). If the AI wasn't the equivalent of a dead trout in tactical thought I wouldn't mind
Edit: Got my invite, thanks.
works in steam, works in ventrilo, works in sound recorder
boot up dow2, no dice