"Ghost AI". You know in racing games the game would record your own race, and you could race a "ghost car" of yourself?
Well what if the game could monitor certain strategic choices you made; build queues, health before retreating, attack priorities, actions per minute. And it could use these to formulate an AI design based on your own playstyle.
And you could play against yourself, or a friend if he wasn't there, to get in some practice.
Or it could even work on demos you downloaded online, to make an AI based on the best players.
It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be a very rough approximation, and thus certainly better than basically fighting the AI developers.
So I originally was a Ravener Alpha fanboi. But I decided to try the Lictor. After horrible use of the Lictor a few times, I grew to love him. So then I found out the Ravener tunnels all connect in a series of tubes and I just had to try him again. OMG I SUCK at Ravener now . I see a Shuriken Cannon and I freeze. I already used my tunnel to get all my nids to this spot. Had I used a Lictor I woulda just flesh hooked it. Re-learning a hero sucks.
Caenem on
But you, pig, are a lucky one. Tell us what we wish to know, and you may yet keep your bacon.
Nemlock for online gaming
Croak all but admitted they're not happy with it at the moment. He said they're planning to rework it soon.
How hard would it be to do the "ghost ai" idea?
Also, taking control mid replay? I think, more importantly, that would be a supreme idea. The replays already happen in the game to begin with, so I can't imagine relinquishing control to the player mid-replay would be too difficult.
And then you could also allow other people to watch replays with you. And you could all just watch it together to begin with, and be on voice chat commenting. That lone is a supreme idea, especially for clans. Hell, the Blue Angels do that.
And then, if you're buddy and you want to say, "OK, let's try that again, but start from here so I can see what would have happened if I didn't rush in full on into your cannons."
It's all so perfect! Such synergy and greatness! Why hasn't it been done already!?
Croak all but admitted they're not happy with it at the moment. He said they're planning to rework it soon.
How hard would it be to do the "ghost ai" idea?
Like a ghost racer in racing games? Wouldn't really work since the AI has to respond to what you're doing.
Also, taking control mid replay? I think, more importantly, that would be a supreme idea. The replays already happen in the game to begin with, so I can't imagine relinquishing control to the player mid-replay would be too difficult.
I elaborated more on the "ghost ai" idea in an upper post.
It would base itself first on a "basic ai." And modify its "decisions" based on specific things it's programmed to check for.
It wouldn't be a perfect system, of course. But it would be at least a natural improvement on just palying the AI and hoping the experience helps you against players. At least the "ghost ai" would be a better, though still very flawed, approximation of real human play.
Tyranids continue to piss me off because if you give them enough momentum they will amass a force that is basically inpenetrable. Space Marines can never really get to that point, nor can Orcs from what i've seen, maybe Eldar can. We were winning and then the nids guy got an insane amount of units supported by a carnifex that I couldn't do shit to.
"Ghost AI". You know in racing games the game would record your own race, and you could race a "ghost car" of yourself?
Well what if the game could monitor certain strategic choices you made; build queues, health before retreating, attack priorities, actions per minute. And it could use these to formulate an AI design based on your own playstyle.
And you could play against yourself, or a friend if he wasn't there, to get in some practice.
Or it could even work on demos you downloaded online, to make an AI based on the best players.
It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be a very rough approximation, and thus certainly better than basically fighting the AI developers.
This is a very cool idea, sir. I'm sure it would be feasible to record build orders, strategic priorities, parameters of combat style, etc and synthesize them into an AI doppleganger.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
Tyranids continue to piss me off because if you give them enough momentum they will amass a force that is basically inpenetrable. Space Marines can never really get to that point, nor can Orcs from what i've seen, maybe Eldar can. We were winning and then the nids guy got an insane amount of units supported by a carnifex that I couldn't do shit to.
Get to T2 before the Nids as an SM and they're toast. I've had several marines come charging at me with dreads before I can get adrenal glands and all I can do is throw mines and gaunts at them in the hopes of making a dent. The worst thing I can think of is someone cutting off my power early on. If that happens no amount of tier1 units are going to make a difference. Sure, I'll eventually get adrenal glands/venom cannons. But by that time I've accepted being ground to dust.
Caenem on
But you, pig, are a lucky one. Tell us what we wish to know, and you may yet keep your bacon.
Nemlock for online gaming
I wish I had a more "critique-able" one, but I always forget to save them.
Just kind of... review that as if you hated me, tell me what I should/could have done differently, if you'd be so kind.
I'm the Tyranids.
Uh, well, at about four minutes in, you basically immediately retreated your entire force at the first sign of enemies.
That was kind of dumb.
It was a bit early, yeah...
I think that was also the game when I meant to hit "J" for my Lictor, but my finger was on "X", and I retreated retardedly early by accident.
God that was frustrating.
Okay, it's not hurting you as much as it did No Great Name, but you're also capping points with multiple units, which is unnecessary
I also don't play tyranids, so excuse me if this isn't applicable, but you aren't really prioritizing power output at all. You're not even building a single generator. I'm eldar, so that would be insanely crippling, but I don't know how that would work with 'nids.
Really, your opponent doesn't seem very good and despite making hordes of scouts, seems unable to outcap you somehow.
EDIT: You also need to be more responsive. A lot of times things happen and you don't react until it's already over and the enemy has already moved on.
Croak all but admitted they're not happy with it at the moment. He said they're planning to rework it soon.
How hard would it be to do the "ghost ai" idea?
Also, taking control mid replay? I think, more importantly, that would be a supreme idea. The replays already happen in the game to begin with, so I can't imagine relinquishing control to the player mid-replay would be too difficult.
And then you could also allow other people to watch replays with you. And you could all just watch it together to begin with, and be on voice chat commenting. That lone is a supreme idea, especially for clans. Hell, the Blue Angels do that.
And then, if you're buddy and you want to say, "OK, let's try that again, but start from here so I can see what would have happened if I didn't rush in full on into your cannons."
It's all so perfect! Such synergy and greatness! Why hasn't it been done already!?
There have been games that let you take over during replay, but at the time it felt like a glitch, not a feature. It would be a neat option though.
Tyranids continue to piss me off because if you give them enough momentum they will amass a force that is basically inpenetrable. Space Marines can never really get to that point, nor can Orcs from what i've seen, maybe Eldar can. We were winning and then the nids guy got an insane amount of units supported by a carnifex that I couldn't do shit to.
Get to T2 before the Nids as an SM and they're toast. I've had several marines come charging at me with dreads before I can get adrenal glands and all I can do is throw mines and gaunts at them in the hopes of making a dent. The worst thing I can think of is someone cutting off my power early on. If that happens no amount of tier1 units are going to make a difference. Sure, I'll eventually get adrenal glands/venom cannons. But by that time I've accepted being ground to dust.
Yeah, that's the thing... I guess I need to take care of them faster. I still think it's kind of lame that they can build themselves up to such a godlike status with upgrades and numbers of units.
Urian on
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
Annihilate flat out sucks and I hate it. I've never had a game of Annihilate finish, either because the game eventually decides to crash or everyone is like "WTF, this is bullshit" then they realise (to their horror) their dread is going to take the next BILLION years to destroy one HQ.
I wish I had a more "critique-able" one, but I always forget to save them.
Just kind of... review that as if you hated me, tell me what I should/could have done differently, if you'd be so kind.
I'm the Tyranids.
Uh, well, at about four minutes in, you basically immediately retreated your entire force at the first sign of enemies.
That was kind of dumb.
Depending on what hero he is you often have to. This is because Tyranids cannot really fight enemies 1vs1 until synapse like Warriors. You have to be really sneaky (ironically) with nids until you have synapse. Once you have synapse (it increases the HP of your units) you can then start fighting the enemy more. Until then you have to do things like assassinate enemy commanders, burrow around and be sneaky. Once you are done with being sneaky, it's time to rip your enemies a new ass.
It's important to realise that because nids are all tier 2, you can't afford major losses early game. If you can't fight an opponent on your terms or heavily out number it: retreat.
I'm disappointed, I simply can't play because the game annihilates my connection for no reason, I can alt tab out and even though I'm not talking in Vent, my Vent ping goes up to 11000+.
sometimes as SM I lose control of all my guys as if theres some ability I have to click.. but there never is and its fucked me multiple times.. my keyboard will work and I can hotkey stuff but the mouse has no effect. gotta be something IM clicking but no idea what it is.
also: how do you set up devestators and shuriken cannons and stuff? must there be something to attack or can you sit them to face something like turrets?
You may now proceed to tear me apart. I win, but I made some mistakes. DoA has already watched it and pointed out some to me, but after watching more tyranid replays and seeing how easily they seem to be able to rip other people apart, I thought I'd see if anyone else had something he missed!
sometimes as SM I lose control of all my guys as if theres some ability I have to click.. but there never is and its fucked me multiple times.. my keyboard will work and I can hotkey stuff but the mouse has no effect. gotta be something IM clicking but no idea what it is.
also: how do you set up devestators and shuriken cannons and stuff? must there be something to attack or can you sit them to face something like turrets?
Right click and drag when you have units selected to have them face a certain way.
BlueDestiny on
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited January 2009
Is there going to be a patch for the beta to fix some of the bugs and such? Or are the bugs going to remain until the zero day patch when the game is released?
Also, I'm really hoping there are a bunch more maps coming within a couple of weeks of the games release. The desert map is IMO pretty good, but I wouldn't mind a bit more variety. Especially a map with the VPs more spread out, so you can't as easily hold two with your army 1 minute from both.
Yeah, that's the thing... I guess I need to take care of them faster. I still think it's kind of lame that they can build themselves up to such a godlike status with upgrades and numbers of units.
I just had a techmarine school me. Turrets. All you SM's with issues vs nids, turrets. He surprised me the first time. By the 2nd time I came back to the VP he had a dread sitting behind his turret. I was no where close to T2. Bad game of catch up after that.
I can at least flesh hook shurikens. I couldn't snag his turrets for some damn reason.
Caenem on
But you, pig, are a lucky one. Tell us what we wish to know, and you may yet keep your bacon.
Nemlock for online gaming
Not being able to do 200 damage and then be worthless isn't really what makes the zoanthrope awful.
He's also slow, has terrible HP, needs to use his shield to stay alive, thereby making the one thing he's good at pointless, almost never successfully retreats, does not really have a great amount of range and his synapse will regenerate nearby troops but it's not enough to counter the suck.
He's very effective if you just move him in range to fire off an AT blast at a vehicle and immediately run him back to base. He does great damage at minimal risk, until he levels.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
Annihilate flat out sucks and I hate it. I've never had a game of Annihilate finish, either because the game eventually decides to crash or everyone is like "WTF, this is bullshit" then they realise (to their horror) their dread is going to take the next BILLION years to destroy one HQ.
What's the point of it honestly?
I guess they just included it for the sake of tradition, but never took the time to balance the gameplay for it. They should probably add an ability to the anti vehicle units that can do some decent damage to buildings (although some already can).
I would also like to see structures that you can fortify with infantry if you own the cap point. Maybe I'm just too used to playing World in Conflict and Z, but I feel like there should be an immediate, tangible material bonus for capping a point. As it is now, it is pretty much a non-event.
Posts
"Ghost AI". You know in racing games the game would record your own race, and you could race a "ghost car" of yourself?
Well what if the game could monitor certain strategic choices you made; build queues, health before retreating, attack priorities, actions per minute. And it could use these to formulate an AI design based on your own playstyle.
And you could play against yourself, or a friend if he wasn't there, to get in some practice.
Or it could even work on demos you downloaded online, to make an AI based on the best players.
It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be a very rough approximation, and thus certainly better than basically fighting the AI developers.
you guys fucking housed us
Nemlock for online gaming
Croak all but admitted they're not happy with it at the moment. He said they're planning to rework it soon.
How hard would it be to do the "ghost ai" idea?
Also, taking control mid replay? I think, more importantly, that would be a supreme idea. The replays already happen in the game to begin with, so I can't imagine relinquishing control to the player mid-replay would be too difficult.
And then you could also allow other people to watch replays with you. And you could all just watch it together to begin with, and be on voice chat commenting. That lone is a supreme idea, especially for clans. Hell, the Blue Angels do that.
And then, if you're buddy and you want to say, "OK, let's try that again, but start from here so I can see what would have happened if I didn't rush in full on into your cannons."
It's all so perfect! Such synergy and greatness! Why hasn't it been done already!?
Like a ghost racer in racing games? Wouldn't really work since the AI has to respond to what you're doing.
Now THAT, is a good idea.
Uh, well, at about four minutes in, you basically immediately retreated your entire force at the first sign of enemies.
That was kind of dumb.
It would base itself first on a "basic ai." And modify its "decisions" based on specific things it's programmed to check for.
It wouldn't be a perfect system, of course. But it would be at least a natural improvement on just palying the AI and hoping the experience helps you against players. At least the "ghost ai" would be a better, though still very flawed, approximation of real human play.
And even against top tier players.
Instead of sitting there searching, you could always try to fix it so you don't have to wait forever while you're searching.
I mean, since you guys made the game and all. :P
Do Relic staff use something in their GT's that will let us tell them apart?
Tyranids continue to piss me off because if you give them enough momentum they will amass a force that is basically inpenetrable. Space Marines can never really get to that point, nor can Orcs from what i've seen, maybe Eldar can. We were winning and then the nids guy got an insane amount of units supported by a carnifex that I couldn't do shit to.
This is a very cool idea, sir. I'm sure it would be feasible to record build orders, strategic priorities, parameters of combat style, etc and synthesize them into an AI doppleganger.
It was a bit early, yeah...
I think that was also the game when I meant to hit "J" for my Lictor, but my finger was on "X", and I retreated retardedly early by accident.
God that was frustrating.
There's something... But it's not in the beta and I'm not sure it will be in retail or not.
Get to T2 before the Nids as an SM and they're toast. I've had several marines come charging at me with dreads before I can get adrenal glands and all I can do is throw mines and gaunts at them in the hopes of making a dent. The worst thing I can think of is someone cutting off my power early on. If that happens no amount of tier1 units are going to make a difference. Sure, I'll eventually get adrenal glands/venom cannons. But by that time I've accepted being ground to dust.
Nemlock for online gaming
Okay, it's not hurting you as much as it did No Great Name, but you're also capping points with multiple units, which is unnecessary
I also don't play tyranids, so excuse me if this isn't applicable, but you aren't really prioritizing power output at all. You're not even building a single generator. I'm eldar, so that would be insanely crippling, but I don't know how that would work with 'nids.
Really, your opponent doesn't seem very good and despite making hordes of scouts, seems unable to outcap you somehow.
EDIT: You also need to be more responsive. A lot of times things happen and you don't react until it's already over and the enemy has already moved on.
Yeah, that's the thing... I guess I need to take care of them faster. I still think it's kind of lame that they can build themselves up to such a godlike status with upgrades and numbers of units.
What's the point of it honestly?
vENT DOW BETA 3
Depending on what hero he is you often have to. This is because Tyranids cannot really fight enemies 1vs1 until synapse like Warriors. You have to be really sneaky (ironically) with nids until you have synapse. Once you have synapse (it increases the HP of your units) you can then start fighting the enemy more. Until then you have to do things like assassinate enemy commanders, burrow around and be sneaky. Once you are done with being sneaky, it's time to rip your enemies a new ass.
It's important to realise that because nids are all tier 2, you can't afford major losses early game. If you can't fight an opponent on your terms or heavily out number it: retreat.
also: how do you set up devestators and shuriken cannons and stuff? must there be something to attack or can you sit them to face something like turrets?
You may now proceed to tear me apart. I win, but I made some mistakes. DoA has already watched it and pointed out some to me, but after watching more tyranid replays and seeing how easily they seem to be able to rip other people apart, I thought I'd see if anyone else had something he missed!
Right click and drag when you have units selected to have them face a certain way.
Also, I'm really hoping there are a bunch more maps coming within a couple of weeks of the games release. The desert map is IMO pretty good, but I wouldn't mind a bit more variety. Especially a map with the VPs more spread out, so you can't as easily hold two with your army 1 minute from both.
I just had a techmarine school me. Turrets. All you SM's with issues vs nids, turrets. He surprised me the first time. By the 2nd time I came back to the VP he had a dread sitting behind his turret. I was no where close to T2. Bad game of catch up after that.
I can at least flesh hook shurikens. I couldn't snag his turrets for some damn reason.
Nemlock for online gaming
He's also slow, has terrible HP, needs to use his shield to stay alive, thereby making the one thing he's good at pointless, almost never successfully retreats, does not really have a great amount of range and his synapse will regenerate nearby troops but it's not enough to counter the suck.
The Zoanthrope sucks.
Edit: The lictor is much better.
Takeda2374 on steam, Mal330 on GFWL.
I would also like to see structures that you can fortify with infantry if you own the cap point. Maybe I'm just too used to playing World in Conflict and Z, but I feel like there should be an immediate, tangible material bonus for capping a point. As it is now, it is pretty much a non-event.