The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.

Final Crisis and also how to fix DC Comics

1911131415

Posts

  • BigDesBigDes Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Hmm, other way round perhaps. Seven Soldiers is the sequel to Final Crisis while at the same time being the prequel.

    Death of the New Gods is weird, and crap and can be safely ignored, I think.

    BigDes on
    steam_sig.png
  • ValoharthValoharth Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Zeromus wrote: »
    Zeromus wrote: »
    Valoharth wrote: »
    Infinite Crisis wasn't a cluster%#@ at all, it made total sense. You didn't need the tie-ins for the story to make sense. It explains that Wonder Woman killed Maxwel Lord and that he was the one who hacked into OMAX from the beginning. WW killing Lord is also one of the main factors the JLA was in shambles.

    The huge thing about FC that I could see in Tie-in wise that hurt it was Death of the New Gods. If it wasn't for Conor on Ifanboy I wouldn't have known that they were all killed off. Even knowing that it was still a bit of a head scratcher.

    Over all, FC is a hard read. You really have to sit down and think about it as you read, some people like this and some don't. Morrison was writing for the crowd who does. You can't please everyone all of the time (or any of the time). Some one said it above about projecting the idea of Morrison thinks you're stupid, he doesn't, go onto youtube and watch some interviews of the guy (the one of him and Way from SDCC08 was a really good one, I was in the audience).

    Speaking of Death of the New Gods, is that canon?

    Except where it conflicts with Final Crisis, yes it is.

    And where does that happen? I'm kind of interested in reading DotNG, despite how bad I've heard it is.

    Really? I've only heard good things about DotNG. But from my understanding, this is just hear say, but Morrison wasn't happy about DotNG because there was some editing glitch that conflicted with what he wanted to do on FC. This is where all the rumors about FC being re-writen started, but from what I can tell other than adding a page there was no re-writing going on.

    Valoharth on
    Valo+Harth.gif
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I re-read FC last night. It makes plenty of sense. But the time/space shifts really can screw with the reader.

    Crimsondude on
  • ZeromusZeromus Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I re-read FC last night. It makes plenty of sense. But the time/space shifts really can screw with the reader.

    That is, I would imagine, the point!

    Zeromus on
    pygsig.png
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2009
    Valoharth wrote: »
    Zeromus wrote: »
    Zeromus wrote: »
    Valoharth wrote: »
    Infinite Crisis wasn't a cluster%#@ at all, it made total sense. You didn't need the tie-ins for the story to make sense. It explains that Wonder Woman killed Maxwel Lord and that he was the one who hacked into OMAX from the beginning. WW killing Lord is also one of the main factors the JLA was in shambles.

    The huge thing about FC that I could see in Tie-in wise that hurt it was Death of the New Gods. If it wasn't for Conor on Ifanboy I wouldn't have known that they were all killed off. Even knowing that it was still a bit of a head scratcher.

    Over all, FC is a hard read. You really have to sit down and think about it as you read, some people like this and some don't. Morrison was writing for the crowd who does. You can't please everyone all of the time (or any of the time). Some one said it above about projecting the idea of Morrison thinks you're stupid, he doesn't, go onto youtube and watch some interviews of the guy (the one of him and Way from SDCC08 was a really good one, I was in the audience).

    Speaking of Death of the New Gods, is that canon?

    Except where it conflicts with Final Crisis, yes it is.

    And where does that happen? I'm kind of interested in reading DotNG, despite how bad I've heard it is.

    Really? I've only heard good things about DotNG. But from my understanding, this is just hear say, but Morrison wasn't happy about DotNG because there was some editing glitch that conflicted with what he wanted to do on FC. This is where all the rumors about FC being re-writen started, but from what I can tell other than adding a page there was no re-writing going on.
    as i recall, the original intention was that grant asked editorial to quietly keep the new gods off-stage for the year leading up to final crisis. that way it would actually be a big mystery as to what happened to them and why some were turning up dead.

    their response to this was apparently to immediately order a huge rambling miniseries about what was killing all the new gods and it only sort of accurately tied in to final crisis.

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    You know, the original concept of Countdown was good. The first few issues, where Duella Dent was murdered and it seemed as if some sort of rift could tear the multiverse apart. . . that was a good story. And I liked the early parts with Jason Todd and Kyle Rayner and Donna looking for Ray Palmer. The early issues of Countdown were good. Then they got sidetracked by all sorts of crazy shit and the book went way off course.

    Lucascraft on
  • ThisThis Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I really had no idea what the heck was happening most of the time in Final Crisis. It felt more like channel-surfing than reading. The funny bit about that is I read later that Morrison actually wanted to make it feel that way. Well, congrats to him for succeeding at doing that. But doing what you intended to do doesn't mean what you intended to do was a good idea.

    Curiously, I read #4 and #5 while high and loved them. Rest of the time didn't much care for it. Some day I'll smoke up and read the whole thing start to finish and see what happens.

    This on
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    edited February 2009
    The early issues of Countdown were ruined by terrible writing and mediocre art.

    DJ Eebs on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    god don't remind me of countdown

    I read it all

    The Lovely Bastard on
    7656367.jpg
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    The early issues of Countdown were ruined by terrible writing and mediocre art.
    So were the rest of the issues.

    Fencingsax on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Zeromus wrote: »
    I re-read FC last night. It makes plenty of sense. But the time/space shifts really can screw with the reader.

    That is, I would imagine, the point!

    Exactly. At least it is when I've used them. But, yeah, it requires a person to actually read the comic. As opposed to something said about the early issues of the Yost & Kyle X-Force where you can skim through it in about two minutes because there's little apparent substance.

    Crimsondude on
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited February 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I think I'm going to be honest and say that while Grant Morrison is not my favorite writer, a significant amount of my ambivalence toward Final Crisis has nothing to do with him.

    What do you think it is to do with?

    Jacobkosh on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Zeromus wrote: »
    I re-read FC last night. It makes plenty of sense. But the time/space shifts really can screw with the reader.

    That is, I would imagine, the point!

    Exactly. At least it is when I've used them. But, yeah, it requires a person to actually read the comic. As opposed to something said about the early issues of the Yost & Kyle X-Force where you can skim through it in about two minutes because there's little apparent substance.

    Oh... I have to actually read it... instead of slapping it with my dick?

    Guess I'll go try that. Clearly, my dissatisfaction is based on my ability to understand Morrison's pure genius. Truly I am the Salieri of the comic book world.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    jacobkosh wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I think I'm going to be honest and say that while Grant Morrison is not my favorite writer, a significant amount of my ambivalence toward Final Crisis has nothing to do with him.

    What do you think it is to do with?
    The editorial approach to Final Crisis. Similar to how the editorial approach to RIP turned me off the story until someone on the board made a pretty good point that it was just supposed to be another arc of Morrison's Batman, rather than a more standalone-ish Ultimate Batman Story, until some executive schmuck saw the name of the arc was RIP and ran with that without giving a damn about the story.

    The editorial cohesiveness at DC seems to be terrible right now. There doesn't seem to be an effective overall direction with the universe, and what direction there is seems to be stupid.

    Fencingsax on
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited February 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Oh... I have to actually read it... instead of slapping it with my dick?

    Guess I'll go try that. Clearly, my dissatisfaction is based on my ability to understand Morrison's pure genius. Truly I am the Salieri of the comic book world.

    Yeah, yeah. Everyone likes to get offended by comments like that but I cannot count the number of times in book or comic threads here on PA where people are just nonchalantly "oh, I skim the chapters that aren't about [favorite character]" or "I flipped through this at the store and..."

    Or this girlfriend of mine who invites me to her house to "watch" CSI, which inevitably turns out to actually mean that it is playing in the background on mute while she talks to me.

    "Reading" is not this binary on/off thing that you either do or you don't. There are levels and degrees. A lot of things are perfectly comprehensible to people who skim or flip and don't require any painstaking attention to detail. Others do. It's no big deal and nobody needs to get all bent out of shape over it.

    Jacobkosh on
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited February 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    The editorial approach to Final Crisis. Similar to how the editorial approach to RIP turned me off the story until someone on the board made a pretty good point that it was just supposed to be another arc of Morrison's Batman, rather than a more standalone-ish Ultimate Batman Story, until some executive schmuck saw the name of the arc was RIP and ran with that without giving a damn about the story.

    The editorial cohesiveness at DC seems to be terrible right now. There doesn't seem to be an effective overall direction with the universe, and what direction there is seems to be stupid.

    Oh, I agree. The whole place reeks of me-tooism. The real shame is that DC has a lot of talented people working for them - people I generally tend to enjoy more than the Marvel crowd - but refuses to just step back and let those people do their thing.

    I feel like at least 80% of an editor's job should just consist of getting out of the talent's way. Crack down on deadlines, yes. Keep the sausage factory churning, sure. But setting the direction and vision for an entire line? Notwithstanding that I don't think companies really need line-wide "directions", if we must have one it really shouldn't be left up to some random MBA with a background at Nabisco Foods or whatever.

    Jacobkosh on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    jacobkosh wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Oh... I have to actually read it... instead of slapping it with my dick?

    Guess I'll go try that. Clearly, my dissatisfaction is based on my ability to understand Morrison's pure genius. Truly I am the Salieri of the comic book world.

    Yeah, yeah. Everyone likes to get offended by comments like that but I cannot count the number of times in book or comic threads here on PA where people are just nonchalantly "oh, I skim the chapters that aren't about [favorite character]" or "I flipped through this at the store and..."

    Or this girlfriend of mine who invites me to her house to "watch" CSI, which inevitably turns out to actually mean that it is playing in the background on mute while she talks to me.

    "Reading" is not this binary on/off thing that you either do or you don't. There are levels and degrees. A lot of things are perfectly comprehensible to people who skim or flip and don't require any painstaking attention to detail. Others do. It's no big deal and nobody needs to get all bent out of shape over it.

    So, in your mind, I invested $30.00, not counting tie-ins, into something that I just skimmed and didn't invest any time and effort into actually reading them?

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • muninnmuninn Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    jacobkosh wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Oh... I have to actually read it... instead of slapping it with my dick?

    Guess I'll go try that. Clearly, my dissatisfaction is based on my ability to understand Morrison's pure genius. Truly I am the Salieri of the comic book world.

    Yeah, yeah. Everyone likes to get offended by comments like that but I cannot count the number of times in book or comic threads here on PA where people are just nonchalantly "oh, I skim the chapters that aren't about [favorite character]" or "I flipped through this at the store and..."

    Or this girlfriend of mine who invites me to her house to "watch" CSI, which inevitably turns out to actually mean that it is playing in the background on mute while she talks to me.

    "Reading" is not this binary on/off thing that you either do or you don't. There are levels and degrees. A lot of things are perfectly comprehensible to people who skim or flip and don't require any painstaking attention to detail. Others do. It's no big deal and nobody needs to get all bent out of shape over it.

    So, in your mind, I invested $30.00, not counting tie-ins, into something that I just skimmed and didn't invest any time and effort into actually reading them?


    Either that or you are lacking mental fortitude to comprehend the material.
    This isnt rocket science. Some people didint have a problem with the story, and some did.

    muninn on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    jacobkosh wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    The editorial approach to Final Crisis. Similar to how the editorial approach to RIP turned me off the story until someone on the board made a pretty good point that it was just supposed to be another arc of Morrison's Batman, rather than a more standalone-ish Ultimate Batman Story, until some executive schmuck saw the name of the arc was RIP and ran with that without giving a damn about the story.

    The editorial cohesiveness at DC seems to be terrible right now. There doesn't seem to be an effective overall direction with the universe, and what direction there is seems to be stupid.

    Oh, I agree. The whole place reeks of me-tooism. The real shame is that DC has a lot of talented people working for them - people I generally tend to enjoy more than the Marvel crowd - but refuses to just step back and let those people do their thing.

    I feel like at least 80% of an editor's job should just consist of getting out of the talent's way. Crack down on deadlines, yes. Keep the sausage factory churning, sure. But setting the direction and vision for an entire line? Notwithstanding that I don't think companies really need line-wide "directions", if we must have one it really shouldn't be left up to some random MBA with a background at Nabisco Foods or whatever.
    Well, the editor should also be ensuring consistency throughout titles, especially since Marvel or DC isn't just a publisher, it's a universe and setting.

    Fencingsax on
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited February 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    So, in your mind, I invested $30.00, not counting tie-ins, into something that I just skimmed and didn't invest any time and effort into actually reading them?

    I don't know, man. I wasn't watching you read it. I would say, without specifically referring to your case, that the fact that somebody spends money on something or other certainly doesn't show anything besides that they spent money on it.

    I do think that a lot of people weren't reading FC any differently than they would read some random issue of Spider-Man, and it took them aback. I think, judging by some of the shit I read on the internet, there are apparently plenty of people who think the mere idea of a story that demands rereading and attention is somehow insane.

    But I think there were also people - and maybe you were one of these - attentive readers who just bounced off the style that was employed, maybe through not having experienced it elsewhere. I found most of FC very straightforward, but I'm familiar with Morrison (have read literally everything he's ever done), and with other narratives in comics and other media that, as I mentioned a few pages back, really make it seem like a model of transparency by comparison.

    So it's not some huge personal failing to not be acquainted or comfortable with with weirder, more experimental storytelling. I do think though that it's very much possible for any committed reader to learn not just to understand it, but to actively appreciate it, with not a huge investment of effort.

    Jacobkosh on
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited February 2009
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Well, the editor should also be ensuring consistency throughout titles, especially since Marvel or DC isn't just a publisher, it's a universe and setting.

    I think that is very much a tertiary concern. I think consistency between titles is important for crossovers or linked titles, inasmuch as they're installments in a single overarching story, but if we're talking about trying to keep track of the fifty places Wolverine turns up every month, I just shrug.

    Jacobkosh on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    jacobkosh wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Well, the editor should also be ensuring consistency throughout titles, especially since Marvel or DC isn't just a publisher, it's a universe and setting.

    I think that is very much a tertiary concern. I think consistency between titles is important for crossovers or linked titles, inasmuch as they're installments in a single overarching story, but if we're talking about trying to keep track of the fifty places Wolverine turns up every month, I just shrug.
    Yeah, I was referring more to the former than the latter.

    Fencingsax on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    jacobkosh wrote: »
    I do think that a lot of people weren't reading FC any differently than they would read some random issue of Spider-Man, and it took them aback. I think, judging by some of the shit I read on the internet, there are apparently plenty of people who think the mere idea of a story that demands rereading and attention is somehow insane.

    I definitely got that impression, especially after reading the FAQ that was posted on CBR. I wasn't sure, but then I read some of the questions and was like, "did you read the story?" Of course, these were also people who repeatedly asked for a reading list even after the guy posted it twice and mentioned he posted it repeatedly. So, I don't know, maybe some people are just dumb.

    Well, let's be frank. Most people are dumb. It would be something if there weren't some comic readers in that group.

    But what's funny is that if you are really so concerned about your $30 investment, there's a whole bunch of wrap-ups, not to mention FC Annotations, all over the web and on all the major comic news sites (e.g., FC "Cliff Notes"). Oh, hell. Someone already made the list for me. You already have the books. They're yours. So the point is really moot for you. If you don't get it still, then there's a whole bunch of people who've gone and done the work to help you make the most out of that investment.

    Hell, Secret Invasion didn't engender nearly as much discussion or analysis. That may be a good thing. It may be because SI was pretty straightforward "heroes punch bad guys till they stop doing evil."

    Crimsondude on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    well barely anything happened in Secret Invasion so you really didn't need much analysis

    The Lovely Bastard on
    7656367.jpg
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    muninn wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    jacobkosh wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Oh... I have to actually read it... instead of slapping it with my dick?

    Guess I'll go try that. Clearly, my dissatisfaction is based on my ability to understand Morrison's pure genius. Truly I am the Salieri of the comic book world.

    Yeah, yeah. Everyone likes to get offended by comments like that but I cannot count the number of times in book or comic threads here on PA where people are just nonchalantly "oh, I skim the chapters that aren't about [favorite character]" or "I flipped through this at the store and..."

    Or this girlfriend of mine who invites me to her house to "watch" CSI, which inevitably turns out to actually mean that it is playing in the background on mute while she talks to me.

    "Reading" is not this binary on/off thing that you either do or you don't. There are levels and degrees. A lot of things are perfectly comprehensible to people who skim or flip and don't require any painstaking attention to detail. Others do. It's no big deal and nobody needs to get all bent out of shape over it.

    So, in your mind, I invested $30.00, not counting tie-ins, into something that I just skimmed and didn't invest any time and effort into actually reading them?


    Either that or you are lacking mental fortitude to comprehend the material.
    This isnt rocket science. Some people didint have a problem with the story, and some did.

    Sigh. Some people can spell "isn't" and "didn't." Perhaps it's your mental failings you should be worried about. The story makes as much sense as anything else, it isn't absurdest in its telling. But being different doesn't make it good. I didn't take anything of significant value from it. Frankly, if it wasn't for Servo, I would now not be rereading it out of spite to you assholes that think it was some sort of transcendental manifesto bestowed upon us by the gods of storytelling.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    well barely anything happened in Secret Invasion so you really didn't need much analysis

    It was about two issues total, content wise.

    Bloods End on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    My favorite part of Secret Invasion was when that superhero killed that Skrull.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    jacobkosh wrote: »
    I do think that a lot of people weren't reading FC any differently than they would read some random issue of Spider-Man, and it took them aback. I think, judging by some of the shit I read on the internet, there are apparently plenty of people who think the mere idea of a story that demands rereading and attention is somehow insane.

    I definitely got that impression, especially after reading the FAQ that was posted on CBR. I wasn't sure, but then I read some of the questions and was like, "did you read the story?" Of course, these were also people who repeatedly asked for a reading list even after the guy posted it twice and mentioned he posted it repeatedly. So, I don't know, maybe some people are just dumb.

    Well, let's be frank. Most people are dumb. It would be something if there weren't some comic readers in that group.

    But what's funny is that if you are really so concerned about your $30 investment, there's a whole bunch of wrap-ups, not to mention FC Annotations, all over the web and on all the major comic news sites (e.g., FC "Cliff Notes"). Oh, hell. Someone already made the list for me. You already have the books. They're yours. So the point is really moot for you. If you don't get it still, then there's a whole bunch of people who've gone and done the work to help you make the most out of that investment.

    Hell, Secret Invasion didn't engender nearly as much discussion or analysis. That may be a good thing. It may be because SI was pretty straightforward "heroes punch bad guys till they stop doing evil."

    I know you people think I didn't understand final crisis, but you are dead wrong. I understood it perfectly. That doesn't make it less stupid. It also doesn't make it any more stupid. It just makes you think your superior because, what, you enjoyed a writer playing with the linear way stories are told? Yeah, that's fancy. It could have been done better. But hey, wipe the morrison cock off your chin and maybe you'd realize that.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    My favorite part of Secret Invasion was when that superhero killed that Skrull.
    No, the best part was when that Skrull died.

    Wildcat on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Wildcat wrote: »
    My favorite part of Secret Invasion was when that superhero killed that Skrull.
    No, the best part was when that Skrull died.

    Oh, it's just so hard to choose!

    Robos A Go Go on
  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I liked the part where they did nothing in the Savage Land for about five months.

    Bloods End on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    I know you people think I didn't understand final crisis, but you are dead wrong. I understood it perfectly. That doesn't make it less stupid. It also doesn't make it any more stupid. It just makes you think your superior because, what, you enjoyed a writer playing with the linear way stories are told? Yeah, that's fancy. It could have been done better. But hey, wipe the morrison cock off your chin and maybe you'd realize that.

    Well, you obviously haven't read any of my longer posts about FC (the ones where I wasn't replying to inane shit like this) then because if you did then you would know what you're talking about.

    Crimsondude on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    I know you people think I didn't understand final crisis, but you are dead wrong. I understood it perfectly. That doesn't make it less stupid. It also doesn't make it any more stupid. It just makes you think your superior because, what, you enjoyed a writer playing with the linear way stories are told? Yeah, that's fancy. It could have been done better. But hey, wipe the morrison cock off your chin and maybe you'd realize that.

    Well, you obviously haven't read any of my longer posts about FC (the ones where I wasn't replying to inane shit like this) then because you don't know what you're talking about.

    I guess that makes two of us.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • muninnmuninn Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    muninn wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    jacobkosh wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Oh... I have to actually read it... instead of slapping it with my dick?

    Guess I'll go try that. Clearly, my dissatisfaction is based on my ability to understand Morrison's pure genius. Truly I am the Salieri of the comic book world.

    Yeah, yeah. Everyone likes to get offended by comments like that but I cannot count the number of times in book or comic threads here on PA where people are just nonchalantly "oh, I skim the chapters that aren't about [favorite character]" or "I flipped through this at the store and..."

    Or this girlfriend of mine who invites me to her house to "watch" CSI, which inevitably turns out to actually mean that it is playing in the background on mute while she talks to me.

    "Reading" is not this binary on/off thing that you either do or you don't. There are levels and degrees. A lot of things are perfectly comprehensible to people who skim or flip and don't require any painstaking attention to detail. Others do. It's no big deal and nobody needs to get all bent out of shape over it.

    So, in your mind, I invested $30.00, not counting tie-ins, into something that I just skimmed and didn't invest any time and effort into actually reading them?


    Either that or you are lacking mental fortitude to comprehend the material.
    This isnt rocket science. Some people didint have a problem with the story, and some did.

    Sigh. Some people can spell "isn't" and "didn't." Perhaps it's your mental failings you should be worried about. The story makes as much sense as anything else, it isn't absurdest in its telling. But being different doesn't make it good. I didn't take anything of significant value from it. Frankly, if it wasn't for Servo, I would now not be rereading it out of spite to you assholes that think it was some sort of transcendental manifesto bestowed upon us by the gods of storytelling.

    You dont like it because it is different?o_O

    muninn on
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited February 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Frankly, if it wasn't for Servo, I would now not be rereading it out of spite to you assholes that think it was some sort of transcendental manifesto bestowed upon us by the gods of storytelling.

    See, it's stuff like this that I don't get. I don't understand why you're going in looking for reasons to throw a shit-fit.

    You're acting like there's some sort of conspiracy afoot to make you feel stupid - like the people who said they enjoyed the book are somehow lying about it.

    Jacobkosh on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I'm lying about it. The real fun of comics comes from undermining people's self-esteem.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • muninnmuninn Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I'm lying about it. The real fun of comics comes from undermining people's self-esteem.

    I like to show off my increadible intellect by reading and comprehending comic-books.

    muninn on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    jacobkosh wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Frankly, if it wasn't for Servo, I would now not be rereading it out of spite to you assholes that think it was some sort of transcendental manifesto bestowed upon us by the gods of storytelling.

    See, it's stuff like this that I don't get. I don't understand why you're going in looking for reasons to throw a shit-fit.

    You're acting like there's some sort of conspiracy afoot to make you feel stupid - like the people who said they enjoyed the book are somehow lying about it.

    it has nothing to do with that, it has everything to do with people acting like I'm some kind of moronic miscreant for NOT liking it. I've never said a single one of you are stupid for liking it, but you are for attacking me for not thinking it was the pinnacle of the written word.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • ThisThis Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    muninn wrote: »
    Sigh. Some people can spell "isn't" and "didn't." Perhaps it's your mental failings you should be worried about. The story makes as much sense as anything else, it isn't absurdest in its telling. But being different doesn't make it good. I didn't take anything of significant value from it. Frankly, if it wasn't for Servo, I would now not be rereading it out of spite to you assholes that think it was some sort of transcendental manifesto bestowed upon us by the gods of storytelling.

    You dont like it because it is different?o_O

    Quick lesson in logic for you:

    "Being different doesn't make it good" is not the same as "Being different makes it bad" (<-- the translation of your statement).

    "Being different doesn't make it good" is a way of saying "Different --/--> Good" or "Different does not imply Good". This means that something being different does not tell you anything about whether or not it's good. It could be Different AND Good or Different AND Not Good.

    "Being different makes it bad" or "dont like it because it is different" reduces to "Different ----> Bad", which means that if something is different, then it is also bad.

    As you can see "Different --/--> Good" and "Different ----> Bad" are not equivalent logical statements.

    This on
  • muninnmuninn Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    This wrote: »
    muninn wrote: »
    Sigh. Some people can spell "isn't" and "didn't." Perhaps it's your mental failings you should be worried about. The story makes as much sense as anything else, it isn't absurdest in its telling. But being different doesn't make it good. I didn't take anything of significant value from it. Frankly, if it wasn't for Servo, I would now not be rereading it out of spite to you assholes that think it was some sort of transcendental manifesto bestowed upon us by the gods of storytelling.

    You dont like it because it is different?o_O

    Quick lesson in logic for you:

    "Being different doesn't make it good" is not the same as "Being different makes it bad" (<-- the translation of your statement).

    "Being different doesn't make it good" is a way of saying "Different --/--> Good" or "Different does not imply Good". This means that something being different does not tell you anything about whether or not it's good. It could be Different AND Good or Different AND Not Good.

    "Being different makes it bad" or "dont like it because it is different" reduces to "Different ----> Bad", which means that if something is different, then it is also bad.

    As you can see "Different --/--> Good" and "Different ----> Bad" are not equivalent logical statements.

    Yes, my comic-book enriched brain can easily comprehend your argument, but you have to take context into account. If you read more FC you would understand.

    muninn on
Sign In or Register to comment.