She hasn't really ever done anything, and her biggest impact on pop culture was the Linda Carter series. I don't really understand why anyone would hate something when there's really nothing there to bother with.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
She hasn't really ever done anything, and her biggest impact on pop culture was the Linda Carter series. I don't really understand why anyone would hate something when there's really nothing there to bother with.
Yeah, there's something weird about the character that nobody has ever really seemed to be able to get their heads around. She works fine in a supporting role (women olol) and I don't want to categorically say that it's impossible that she'll ever have her own definitive, Year One or All Star Superman-level story, but it certainly seems increasingly unlikely.
She hasn't really ever done anything, and her biggest impact on pop culture was the Linda Carter series. I don't really understand why anyone would hate something when there's really nothing there to bother with.
Yeah, there's something weird about the character that nobody has ever really seemed to be able to get their heads around. She works fine in a supporting role (women olol) and I don't want to categorically say that it's impossible that she'll ever have her own definitive, Year One or All Star Superman-level story, but it certainly seems increasingly unlikely.
Didn't she basically save the day in the whole Checkmate thing? And she does have her own whole book where she does various things, at least in as much as Batman does in his own books.
She doesn't really have any defined characteristics other than "Amazon." They try to make this big three with her, Superman and Batman, but Superman and Batman, you know what they're about.
All the mythical stuff behind Wonder Woman is really irritating. They try to make her a greek mythos character, but her powers and her costume, and really everything about her have nothing at all to do with greek mythology.
Plus its all so fragmented. Its like they aren't really willing to fully commit to the greek thing. They tend to interject some random mumbo jumbo that doesn't really do much for the character.
She doesn't really have any defined characteristics other than "Amazon." They try to make this big three with her, Superman and Batman, but Superman and Batman, you know what they're about.
Amazon encompasses a fair bit more than most other single words, though. Batman can be boiled down to "rich-kid with issues" and Superman can be boiled down to "invincible boyscout". All three descriptors explain most of their actions and mannerisms both in costume and out pretty effectively. There's honestly not much depth to any of the big three.
See, the problem is, they call Wonder Woman an Amazon. . .but she really isn't.
Nothing about Lasso's of Truth, Bracers of whatever, and an invisible jet (lol) have anything at all to do with Amazons. Aside from her saying "Great Hera!" on random occasion, there isn't much Amazon at all in her.
Her costume is also awfully patriotic for someone without any real ties to the United States beyond the fact that the country is simply where she happened to end up and seemingly has the greatest need for heroes.
All in all, she's kind of a mish mash of disparate elements that have never really achieved cohesion, even after all these years. If anyone needs an overhaul, it's her.
That said, I do like the aspect of her that acts as an ambassador and force for female empowerment, though that sort of falls to the wayside more often than not. She doesn't seem to be doing much of either currently, between being a spy for some reason and having a romance with Nemesis.
She hasn't really ever done anything, and her biggest impact on pop culture was the Linda Carter series. I don't really understand why anyone would hate something when there's really nothing there to bother with.
Yeah, there's something weird about the character that nobody has ever really seemed to be able to get their heads around. She works fine in a supporting role (women olol) and I don't want to categorically say that it's impossible that she'll ever have her own definitive, Year One or All Star Superman-level story, but it certainly seems increasingly unlikely.
Didn't she basically save the day in the whole Checkmate thing? And she does have her own whole book where she does various things, at least in as much as Batman does in his own books.
Her book is notable for never having had a definitive run. I mean, there are years of terrible Superman comics, but there are also these periods you can look at and go "wow, that was a really neat book." And Superman and Batman both have their own mythos, their own family of related characters, et cetera. Wonder Woman's book has just always sort of flailed around. It gets cancelled and reinvented over and over again and nobody really seems to have cracked it.
I hate her bathing suit costume. Its terrible. I much prefer the Darwyn Cooke design from New Frontier. Also, some of the costume designs from previous arcs have been really good. And her full golden battle armor from 2 issues ago was fantastic. Its too bad she doesn't wear armor more often.
For someone who is supposed to be a great warrior woman, its a bit ridiculous that the only armor she wears on a regular basis are a pair of silver bracers that let her deflect bullets.
Honestly, I've always thought of Wonder Woman as a lame Superman clone. She has super strength, super speed, flight, and her costume has red and blue, same as his. She's always just been a female counterpart. If they want to really fix Wonder Woman, they need to make her much more than just Super Woman.
My favorite stories with WW are the ones that showcase her tactics and strategic mind. I really like her in the role of planner and coordinator for the Justice League. Out of everyone, she is the one with the military training and background. She should be their primary strategist. But sadly, most of the time Batman is the strategist because he's just so awesome at everything.
maybe if they'd quit making her the bad guy in every single event comic...
seriously, they way they treated her in Infinite Crisis, you'd think she just killed a baby. And Final Crisis was no better...
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When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
Joe Kelly had a good handle of WW when he wrote her in Action Comics and JLA (Doug Mahnke draws the best WW too, screw curly hair). She was funny, something that should have been explored more.
And the Batman/WW relationship never even got a chance because it was too awesome an idea. It was almost like the Hawkman/Powergirl relationship (1 panel!), in that they were both original and could have been explored more but had the rug pulled underneath them.
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Sars_BoyRest, You Are The Lightning.Registered Userregular
It's worth noting, to those of us who remember our Classical myths, that she's missing the most obvious of Amazon traits: she hasn't removed one of her breasts to better perform at archery.
I think the basic difficulty with Wonder Woman is far simpler than we're making it, though: like the other two, her 'purpose' in D.C. has radically shifted over the years, and failed to find its niche the way Batman and Superman have. Whereas she once was about feminism and sexual frustration, she now barely serves either point. Still, I like the character.
Has anyone without a penis ever wrote her? I wonder if that makes a difference. Probably not though... she has so much potential.
Joss should have a go at her. Too bad they took the movie away.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Nothing I've seen of Simone's run makes me want to read it, but lots of people seem to like it so maybe I'll check a trade sometime and see if that improves my impression.
When I started learning a bit more about DC via this board, I was shocked to hear that DC considered Wonder Woman one of their big three alongside Superman and Batman. I mean... I knew a bit about Wonder Woman but yeah mostly from a really old TV show.
I was also really confused when watching the DCAU stuff and Wonder Woman was flying around and being like Superman... I was like "where's her invisible jet? if she's like superman why does she need bracers to deflect bullets? why is she greek or something?"
Now I know more about her of course, but at the time I was genuinely confused.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Nothing I've seen of Simone's run makes me want to read it, but lots of people seem to like it so maybe I'll check a trade sometime and see if that improves my impression.
She teams up with Beowulf to beat the shit out of Satan.
When I started learning a bit more about DC via this board, I was shocked to hear that DC considered Wonder Woman one of their big three alongside Superman and Batman.
Yeah I would have thought the third would be Flash. Or maybe Green Lantern.
Yeah, Simone's run has been pretty good. Especially the arc mentioned by Bloods End where she teams up with Beowulf. That was a great arc. It also featured some good alternate costumes for WW that were all pretty much better than her normal outfit. The only notable exception to the goodness of Simone's run, as I have mentioned in other threads, is the 2 issue arc about the making of the Wonder Woman movie in the comic. That story was downright awful.
I also really liked Jodi Picoult's run, although that might be largely due to the Dodsons art. I lurvs the Dodsons.
I think the concept of "The Big Three" is such a tired and too-often forced concept. It's not just DC, you see it all over the place. People talk about it with Star Trek as well. In the original, there was Kirk, Spock, and McCoy who were "the big three". Then people force that concept on every subsequent show. On comic message boards you get threads like "Who is Marvel's Big 3?". What the fuck. What's so special about this that it's assumed there have to be three characters who are more important than all others? Why not five, or one, or a descending order of a hundred? It's just stupid.
Yeah alright, but everytime a new Star Trek show came out people would go "Ok who are the Big 3". It's one thing if there really are three main characters but this notion of "Big Three" as though it's some kind of meaningful force which must be universally applied just really annoys me.
Yeah, I'm another who has always been mystified by the importance given to Wonder Woman. I think it mainly has to do with the fact that she's still the preeminent female super hero, which is still kind of a shame considering the fact that she doesn't really have an interesting backstory or a clearly defined personality.
I dunno. I hated her until Bruce Timm got his hands on her. And I didn't like whoever had her book last, at the most recent re-issue or whatever you call it because the story he was writing in the first couple books was stupid as hell. So I walked away until I heard Gail Simone got the book, and I thought there were some interesting scenes in the one I read that she wrote but Birds of Prey was more compelling. I'll have to watch the movie with Keri Russel and Nathan Fillion either way.
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Yeah, there's something weird about the character that nobody has ever really seemed to be able to get their heads around. She works fine in a supporting role (women olol) and I don't want to categorically say that it's impossible that she'll ever have her own definitive, Year One or All Star Superman-level story, but it certainly seems increasingly unlikely.
Didn't she basically save the day in the whole Checkmate thing? And she does have her own whole book where she does various things, at least in as much as Batman does in his own books.
Plus its all so fragmented. Its like they aren't really willing to fully commit to the greek thing. They tend to interject some random mumbo jumbo that doesn't really do much for the character.
Amazon encompasses a fair bit more than most other single words, though. Batman can be boiled down to "rich-kid with issues" and Superman can be boiled down to "invincible boyscout". All three descriptors explain most of their actions and mannerisms both in costume and out pretty effectively. There's honestly not much depth to any of the big three.
Nothing about Lasso's of Truth, Bracers of whatever, and an invisible jet (lol) have anything at all to do with Amazons. Aside from her saying "Great Hera!" on random occasion, there isn't much Amazon at all in her.
All in all, she's kind of a mish mash of disparate elements that have never really achieved cohesion, even after all these years. If anyone needs an overhaul, it's her.
That said, I do like the aspect of her that acts as an ambassador and force for female empowerment, though that sort of falls to the wayside more often than not. She doesn't seem to be doing much of either currently, between being a spy for some reason and having a romance with Nemesis.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Her book is notable for never having had a definitive run. I mean, there are years of terrible Superman comics, but there are also these periods you can look at and go "wow, that was a really neat book." And Superman and Batman both have their own mythos, their own family of related characters, et cetera. Wonder Woman's book has just always sort of flailed around. It gets cancelled and reinvented over and over again and nobody really seems to have cracked it.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Also I thought Perez's relaunch was considered the definitive Wonder Woman run.
For someone who is supposed to be a great warrior woman, its a bit ridiculous that the only armor she wears on a regular basis are a pair of silver bracers that let her deflect bullets.
Honestly, I've always thought of Wonder Woman as a lame Superman clone. She has super strength, super speed, flight, and her costume has red and blue, same as his. She's always just been a female counterpart. If they want to really fix Wonder Woman, they need to make her much more than just Super Woman.
My favorite stories with WW are the ones that showcase her tactics and strategic mind. I really like her in the role of planner and coordinator for the Justice League. Out of everyone, she is the one with the military training and background. She should be their primary strategist. But sadly, most of the time Batman is the strategist because he's just so awesome at everything.
seriously, they way they treated her in Infinite Crisis, you'd think she just killed a baby. And Final Crisis was no better...
And the Batman/WW relationship never even got a chance because it was too awesome an idea. It was almost like the Hawkman/Powergirl relationship (1 panel!), in that they were both original and could have been explored more but had the rug pulled underneath them.
I think the basic difficulty with Wonder Woman is far simpler than we're making it, though: like the other two, her 'purpose' in D.C. has radically shifted over the years, and failed to find its niche the way Batman and Superman have. Whereas she once was about feminism and sexual frustration, she now barely serves either point. Still, I like the character.
Joss should have a go at her. Too bad they took the movie away.
Did Ann Nocenti ever write her?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
And if she dressed in the armor. Like, all the time.
I was also really confused when watching the DCAU stuff and Wonder Woman was flying around and being like Superman... I was like "where's her invisible jet? if she's like superman why does she need bracers to deflect bullets? why is she greek or something?"
Now I know more about her of course, but at the time I was genuinely confused.
She teams up with Beowulf to beat the shit out of Satan.
What is wrong with you?
I also really liked Jodi Picoult's run, although that might be largely due to the Dodsons art. I lurvs the Dodsons.
I would think it would be something like Wolverine, Captain America, and Spider-man or something.
in seriousness, it would be Captain America, Iron Man and Thor. Wolverine and Spider-Man are just more popular.
Edit: and are there any trades available of his run? Because I like Rucka in general.