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I always liked Kyle's constructs, like the giant anime mech.
yeah... he used to have awesome constructs.
USED to... The last thing I saw him actually construct was an apparatus to cure the other GL's from Kryb's infection... and even that was pretty generic by Kyle standards.
You can't tell me it wasn't amusing to see him LITERALLY create a six shooter (and ammo belt) just after saying "I'm gonna have to go Eastwood here", prior to the medical apparatus scene.
so this interview helps explain #7 quite a bit. i don't think Grant did what he thought he was doing with #7, but seeing him talk about his intentions helps me enjoy the book a bit more. and also after reading the interview it seems like Countdown fits in better with FC than I originally thought.
it's like the Countdown writers WERE reading from the proper FC scripts, they just couldn't make it make sense. they needed to be more literal and blatant.
I liked this question heh
NRAMA: I think more than the other issues, issue #7 left people hanging a little...in a good(?) way - the origin and components of the Watchtower, the robot JLA, the unseen Metal Men attack...feel free to fill in the blanks about those, but it seems like there's a lot of story that remained in your head. Can you discuss a little about how you splice out what makes it to the final page, and what stays behind?
GM: The origin of the final Watchtower is described in captions and its components, recognisable to DC readers, are not significant otherwise. The robot JLA and the Metal Men of Earth-44 are one and the same and we see their attack and their defeat by the Luthor/Sivana team on the next page etc.
I choose to leave out boring, as I saw it, connective tissue we didn’t really need for this story to work. I choose to leave out long-winded caption-heavy explanations that bring readers ‘up to speed’, even as they send them to sleep. And we left out the line-wide crossover tie-ins that have every detail of backstory spelled out laboriously by writers desperate to get back to their own plotlines. Otherwise, the whole thing is there on the page in word or picture form...and when interestingly-shaped story spaces can be opened out to make room for enthusiastic speculation and debate that adds to the fun. Looking up characters you thought were simply generic cavemen or monsters and finding they have histories you can explore and adventures you can read adds another interactive layer that takes you deeper into the mysteries and complexities of the DC virtual reality.
I would have really liked it if you kept that connective tissue in GM
I always liked Kyle's constructs, like the giant anime mech.
yeah... he used to have awesome constructs.
USED to... The last thing I saw him actually construct was an apparatus to cure the other GL's from Kryb's infection... and even that was pretty generic by Kyle standards.
The fact is, they're too lazy to do anything cool in GLC due to how many GLs there are, and Hal has never created anything cool. EVER.
missile firing jet power armor.
lies!
I don't have any scans on hand but he did it in that short miniarc in Russia.
I always liked Kyle's constructs, like the giant anime mech.
yeah... he used to have awesome constructs.
USED to... The last thing I saw him actually construct was an apparatus to cure the other GL's from Kryb's infection... and even that was pretty generic by Kyle standards.
You can't tell me it wasn't amusing to see him LITERALLY create a six shooter (and ammo belt) just after saying "I'm gonna have to go Eastwood here", prior to the medical apparatus scene.
Oh yeah, that was good. He didn't use it, but it was good.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
0
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
so this interview helps explain #7 quite a bit. i don't think Grant did what he thought he was doing with #7, but seeing him talk about his intentions helps me enjoy the book a bit more. and also after reading the interview it seems like Countdown fits in better with FC than I originally thought.
it's like the Countdown writers WERE reading from the proper FC scripts, they just couldn't make it make sense. they needed to be more literal and blatant.
I liked this question heh
NRAMA: I think more than the other issues, issue #7 left people hanging a little...in a good(?) way - the origin and components of the Watchtower, the robot JLA, the unseen Metal Men attack...feel free to fill in the blanks about those, but it seems like there's a lot of story that remained in your head. Can you discuss a little about how you splice out what makes it to the final page, and what stays behind?
GM: The origin of the final Watchtower is described in captions and its components, recognisable to DC readers, are not significant otherwise. The robot JLA and the Metal Men of Earth-44 are one and the same and we see their attack and their defeat by the Luthor/Sivana team on the next page etc.
I choose to leave out boring, as I saw it, connective tissue we didn’t really need for this story to work. I choose to leave out long-winded caption-heavy explanations that bring readers ‘up to speed’, even as they send them to sleep. And we left out the line-wide crossover tie-ins that have every detail of backstory spelled out laboriously by writers desperate to get back to their own plotlines. Otherwise, the whole thing is there on the page in word or picture form...and when interestingly-shaped story spaces can be opened out to make room for enthusiastic speculation and debate that adds to the fun. Looking up characters you thought were simply generic cavemen or monsters and finding they have histories you can explore and adventures you can read adds another interactive layer that takes you deeper into the mysteries and complexities of the DC virtual reality.
I would have really liked it if you kept that connective tissue in GM
Seriously, there's nothing wrong with some exposition.
The ego on Morrison is just painful. He thinks his ideas are so great, apparently, that if you need any explanation of his cryptic and unconnected scenes, you're not smart enough. So he resorts to smarmy comments like this...
Honestly, it makes me not want to read his stuff ever again, if that's the level of respect he has for his readers.
it seems to me that writing it in the manner he did actually implies an extremely high level of respect for his reader's ability to comprehend new(ish) forms of comic storytelling.
but, y'know, i guess just because he didn't write specifically for stupid people, he must think we're all fools!
The ego on Morrison is just painful. He thinks his ideas are so great, apparently, that if you need any explanation of his cryptic and unconnected scenes, you're not smart enough. So he resorts to smarmy comments like this...
Honestly, it makes me not want to read his stuff ever again, if that's the level of respect he has for his readers.
Is this Opposite Day for you or something? Between this and "Batman's death being undone' I have to wonder if you're trying to make some kind of misreading quota by the end of the night.
"I think people are smart enough to reach their own conclusions" is the opposite of "YOU GUYS ARE DUMB DUMB DUMB"
His comments are not the same as his story. What matt is saying is that Morrison's explanations / comments in interviews in regards to negative criticism or people asking for explanations is what's Morrison treating people like idiots. And, to be honest, I agree with matt, to an extent, that Morrison comes off a bit high and mighty in interviews in these regards.
"Hey Grant, people didn't understand this stuff, care to explain?".
"Sure, it was boring to me, so I didnt put it in, they should be able to read and look at the pictures to figure it out."
But you guys are misconstruing matt's comment as a negative against the story when it was against how Morrison was acting in the interviews.
His comments are not the same as his story. What matt is saying is that Morrison's explanations / comments in interviews in regards to negative criticism or people asking for explanations is what's Morrison treating people like idiots. And, to be honest, I agree with matt, to an extent, that Morrison comes off a bit high and mighty in interviews in these regards.
"Hey Grant, people didn't understand this stuff, care to explain?".
"Sure, it was boring to me, so I didnt put it in, they should be able to read and look at the pictures to figure it out."
But you guys are misconstruing matt's comment as a negative against the story when it was against how Morrison was acting in the interviews.
Correct.
I don't have a problem with the story of Final Crisis at all: I have a problem with the storytelling of Final Crisis, which is particularly ironic given how (a) it's all about story telling, and (b) Morrison appears to think himself the Messiah of the written language.
I don't have a problem with the story of Final Crisis at all: I have a problem with the storytelling of Final Crisis, which is particularly ironic given how (a) it's all about story telling, and (b) Morrison appears to think himself the Messiah of the written language.
I think you're perceiving a lot of shit that isn't there at all, and projecting an intensely unhealthy attitude onto other people. I've seen this really weird, aggro, reverse snobbery directed a lot around FC, and frankly around Morrison in general. For fifteen years now some fans seemed absolutely convinced that - no matter how many reverential, almost dorkily earnest Superman stories he writes - he must be secretly laughing at the nerds behind their backs, from the safety of his secret hipster harem.
The guy isn't going out of his way to piss you off. From his point of view, he put the necessary things in there - and frankly, I agree. There is very little about FC that ended up being inexplicable after we had a few days to digest it. That's not to say that I think it needed to be as opaque as it sometimes was, or that it always worked, or that it wasn't hamstrung by a series of questionable decisions at all levels. But "the messiah of the written language"? Dude, breathe through a paper bag for a bit or something.
I see your point, so forgive a bit of a long post in response:
1. I might be the obvious of a "reverse snob", since if anything I love innovative stories and storytelling. I've actually quite enjoyed Morrison's work over the years, and in fact adore his work in New X-Men. I'm complaining about the attitude and storytelling he's demonstrating here, with Final Crisis (and the related tie-ins).
2. I do not believe in any conspiratorial, "they're all idiots" attitude towards everyone who reads his comics. He clearly loves his characters, and he clearly loves comics in general. When he chooses to write an accessible story, he does absolutely brilliant work that only a fan could create.
3. I disagree with him, and you, quite strongly about how much was actually there. Frankly, I do not believe you or most-any of us could have possibly extracted much of that information.
4. Good storytelling is not just creating a good story, and telling it in any way you want. It's telling a good story in a way that the audience of that story can engage with. In this case, Morrison chose to exclude virtually any connective tissue (to use his terms) which means that the story reads as tremendously rushed and ill-timed. He opted to tell a story far too dense for the available page-space, which means that whole elements had to be exiled to other books (e.g. the Superman Beyond stuff, and any explanation of how Batman got from the Helicopter to Granny's chair).
5. I do believe that Morrison is disrespectful towards his readers, with regards to those of us who dislike his storytelling here. His language about people who disagree with the storytelling has been consistently insulting and patronizing.
Complicated never automatically means better. Complicated structure, complex grammar, etc. can contribute to quality, and few would doubt that it can lead to amazing quality. However, it is a tool that must be employed properly, and Morrison failed here in my estimation.
As a person who only occasionally takes jaunts into the DC universe books, Final Crisis was basically like a pretty artistically interesting series of slaps to the junk.
It was like an anti event book, instead of giving new readers something to jump in on, it gave old readers something even more convoluted and specific to the continuity.
durandal4532 on
We're all in this together
0
RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
From the DC naiton panel:
"Any chance of a Young Justice trade paperback?" "Not at this time," said Wayne. The crowd didn't like that much (or at least the vocal portion).
Here's how to fix DC: Put out TPBs! It's like they don't want to make money.
I love the fact that Marvel can be relied upon to put out just about everything as a trade... I remember a time when that definitely wasn't the case and only the occasional collected story would ever make the cut.
"Any chance of a Young Justice trade paperback?" "Not at this time," said Wayne. The crowd didn't like that much (or at least the vocal portion).
Here's how to fix DC: Put out TPBs! It's like they don't want to make money.
Why do they not put trades out for things like this, YJ and reprints of ones like Impulse for example? They seem to be desired by most fans and they go for silly money on Ebay and Amazon Marketplace.
The thing about Marvel that's so awesome right now, is that there's a central vision for the direction the Marvel Universe is going. Bendis seems to be at the helm, but he's got Fraction, Brubaker, and Quesada on board with him and they all seem to be going in the same direction. This makes for very coherent storytelling across all the major labels.
DC on the other hand has no such common vision. Geoff Johns is able to orchestrate some mighty good events, such as the Sinestro War and the New Krypton arcs. But that hardly comprises the whole universe.
In fact, I would say Johns is running in one direction, and Morrison is running in a completely different direction, and then you've got Didio who is a complete incompetent and is giving all sorts of bogus editorial mandates for shit stories that don't need to be written (like the Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul).
To fix the DCU, or at least bring a bit more cohesion, they need to fire Didio and bring someone on board with the ability to set a vision for the entire brand.
Lucascraft on
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
Hmm.
Evidently there are 4 six issue Final Crisis aftermath series starting in may.
Final Crisis Aftermath: Run!
Final Crisis Aftermath: Dance!
Final Crisis Aftermath: Ink: this is about what it means to be a hero in the DCU.
Final Crisis Aftermath: Escape, described as 'what it means when you know too much about the DCU'.
Bloods End on
0
Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited February 2009
Final Crisis Aftermath: Dance!
buyin it
Garlic Bread on
0
Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
Yes but Escape is implying trying to get out of a certain place while Run in this context likely applies to the Human Flame trying to hide from every superhero on the planet.
Furu on
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
To fix the DCU, or at least bring a bit more cohesion, they need to fire Didio and bring someone on board with the ability to set a vision for the entire brand.
Whatever happened to just, you know, making good books? I realize to the modern comics reader this is apparently a crazy 4-D timecube notion from beyond time and space, but you know, when I spent years filling in my back runs of Starman or Sandman Mystery Theatre or the Englehart Captain America or the Layton/Michelinie Iron Man the one thing I was assuredly not doing was going "man this book sure fit in seamlessly with the big crossover events of its day!"
Jacobkosh on
0
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
Perhaps Escape will have Scott Free?
Fencingsax on
0
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
To fix the DCU, or at least bring a bit more cohesion, they need to fire Didio and bring someone on board with the ability to set a vision for the entire brand.
Whatever happened to just, you know, making good books? I realize to the modern comics reader this is apparently a crazy 4-D timecube notion from beyond time and space, but you know, when I spent years filling in my back runs of Starman or Sandman Mystery Theatre or the Englehart Captain America or the Layton/Michelinie Iron Man the one thing I was assuredly not doing was going "man this book sure fit in seamlessly with the big crossover events of its day!"
Yeah, I think the problem with books today isn't their cohesion with each other, it's that they're always either in an Event, or setting up for the next one. Which has been Marvel's problem. Marvel's books all flow together pretty well, but they're more focused on that than giving good stories. There's a reason the best Marvels either have as little to do with an event as possible (Incredible Herc), or are more independent, but still loosely connected (the cosmic stuff. Although I don't like Vulcan)
Fencingsax on
0
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Yeah, I think the problem with books today isn't their cohesion with each other, it's that they're always either in an Event, or setting up for the next one. Which has been Marvel's problem. Marvel's books all flow together pretty well, but they're more focused on that than giving good stories. There's a reason the best Marvels either have as little to do with an event as possible (Incredible Herc), or are more independent, but still loosely connected (the cosmic stuff. Although I don't like Vulcan)
Exactly. And while I honestly do enjoy the occasional big mega-event as much as the next guy, the idea that a company can bestow "vision" upon its creators is absurd. Quality happens from the ground up, not from the top down. One of the most fertile periods for great comics was DC/Vertigo from about 1988 to 1995, and there wasn't some big movement afoot - just Ostrander on Suicide Squad, Giffen/DeMatteis on JLI, Morrison on Doom Patrol, Milligan on Shade the Changing Man, et cetera et cetera, all of them just quietly cranking out amazing work in their individual styles.
If someone wants cohesion and a line-wide vision, they can buy that big Secret Wars II omnibus, and I wish them joy of it.
EDIT: and Delano on Hellblazer, Gaiman on Sandman, Matt Wagner doing Sandman Mystery Theatre, Waid on the Flash, Ostrander doing the Spectre...I mean, my god, it just goes on and on and on. The only thing any of these books really had in common was that they were apparently all written by people who enjoyed what they were doing, instead of hustling to get five books a month out the door the way today's writers seem to.
Yeah, I think the problem with books today isn't their cohesion with each other, it's that they're always either in an Event, or setting up for the next one. Which has been Marvel's problem. Marvel's books all flow together pretty well, but they're more focused on that than giving good stories. There's a reason the best Marvels either have as little to do with an event as possible (Incredible Herc), or are more independent, but still loosely connected (the cosmic stuff. Although I don't like Vulcan)
Exactly. And while I honestly do enjoy the occasional big mega-event as much as the next guy, the idea that a company can bestow "vision" upon its creators is absurd. Quality happens from the ground up, not from the top down. One of the most fertile periods for great comics was DC/Vertigo from about 1988 to 1995, and there wasn't some big movement afoot - just Ostrander on Suicide Squad, Giffen/DeMatteis on JLI, Morrison on Doom Patrol, Milligan on Shade the Changing Man, et cetera et cetera, all of them just quietly cranking out amazing work in their individual styles.
If someone wants cohesion and a line-wide vision, they can buy that big Secret Wars II omnibus, and I wish them joy of it.
EDIT: and Delano on Hellblazer, Gaiman on Sandman, Matt Wagner doing Sandman Mystery Theatre, Waid on the Flash, Ostrander doing the Spectre...I mean, my god, it just goes on and on and on. The only thing any of these books really had in common was that they were apparently all written by people who enjoyed what they were doing, instead of hustling to get five books a month out the door the way today's writers seem to.
Agreed. Sometimes you wanna just read a good story.
Reading what Grant meant to do makes it all sound awesome, but actually reading the works myself I didn't get out what he says he put in. Maybe it's there, I definitely see the potential for it, I just don't know if I myself see it or would have been able to divine any of it without scads of outside help. It's that last part that's a problem, especially for a big event book. Accessibility level of Final Crisis was a big fat ZERO.
You know, the other night I finally pinned down what's been bugging me about Final Crisis. Outside of obvious things like changes in the art team, and Morrison's experimental "channel-surfing" pacing.
No, what bugs me is that Morrison's stated mission with the book was to help the DCU put all the grim n' gritty, street-level stuff behind it, and usher in a new era of spirited, free-wheeling cosmic lunacy that only comics can deliver. I mean, that was the stated subtext behind Superman defeating the decaying, wretched remains of two universal evils, right?
Really, I'm all for it. I'd love to see a return to the DCU of a decade ago, where the company was very obviously not even trying to compete with Marvel on their own turf, but rather doing their own thing. Crazy, fun shit like Hourman, Young Justice, JSA, Flash, One Million, etc. That was the DCU I fell in love with, and if they could bring that tone back, I'd be buying a lot more of their books.
But Morrison decided to tell a story that, I feel, was at odds with his stated objectives for the book. To me, Final Crisis was just as grim, miserable, and devoid of fun as all the books it was trying to tear down. Sure you've got Superman using music as a weapon, and the Metal Men acting as vehicles for heroes to ride into battle on, but the whole thing had an air of misery and depression around it. I mean, when you're writing Tawky Tawny clawing out someone's entrails, Mary Marvel wearing fetish gear while grinding on Captain Marvel Jr., and Dan Turpin beating a villain with a toilet seat, I feel it's kind of at odds with the promotion of a funner, less gritty universe.
I wish Morrison would have tried harder to tell a story like he apparently wants others to tell. When I think of fun, crazy events in the past, I think of stuff like Our Worlds at War, World Without Grown Ups, JLApes, Emperor Joker, or Morrison's own One Million. These were events where some serious, depressing shit happened; Doomsday killing and maiming villains sent to free him, Guy Gardner and Aquaman being killed, Guardian and Human Bomb leading young soldiers to their deaths, and so on. But they also had a tone that gave the stories this mythic, larger than life feel, and made even the serious events fun. Don't get me wrong, they all certainly had their flaws, but they had a certain energy and excitement behind them that was downright contagious.
But, rather than get a story like that, we got this depressing, gritty epic with the message that DC should try doing some more fun, crazy shit. Unfortunately, Final Crisis was DC's top-selling comic for all the months it was published, so all it proved was that depressing, gritty shit sells, and sells well. And what do we have as a follow up?
"It tells you what life is like for an F-list villain in the DCU. It's fast-moving and a lot of people die. What else could you ask for?"
"Dan described this book as a combination between The Prisoner and Saw. It's really a very heavy book."
"It's about an addiction to evil, and cutting corners, and what happens when you can't stay away from 'the bottle' for too long. There's a riot in this book that's pretty awesome. There's a very disturbing surprise he comes across when he finds out what happens when the tattoos leave his body when he's at home by himself."
"This one is very sleazy."
"I personally guarantee that there will be one moment in each issue you won't believe that we could do in the DCU."
"This is very much DCU proper, it's just an ugly way of getting there."
I relish the fun, quirky stuff that DC still does, like Booster Gold, JSA, Blue Beetle, Green Lantern, and GLC. I'm sure Flash will be a great read under Johns. But I read stuff like the above quotes and I just really, really wish Morrison would have wrote a fun, awesome book that sold 100,000 copies, rather than the one he did.
I pretty much agree. I have never bought a lot of DC books, but I have a ton of DC trades on my to buy some day list. I don't like grim and gritty superheroes all of the time. You can have serious shit going down and still have fun with it.
Posts
You can't tell me it wasn't amusing to see him LITERALLY create a six shooter (and ammo belt) just after saying "I'm gonna have to go Eastwood here", prior to the medical apparatus scene.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
I would have really liked it if you kept that connective tissue in GM
I don't have any scans on hand but he did it in that short miniarc in Russia.
Oh yeah, that was good. He didn't use it, but it was good.
Honestly, it makes me not want to read his stuff ever again, if that's the level of respect he has for his readers.
but, y'know, i guess just because he didn't write specifically for stupid people, he must think we're all fools!
Is this Opposite Day for you or something? Between this and "Batman's death being undone' I have to wonder if you're trying to make some kind of misreading quota by the end of the night.
"I think people are smart enough to reach their own conclusions" is the opposite of "YOU GUYS ARE DUMB DUMB DUMB"
"Hey Grant, people didn't understand this stuff, care to explain?".
"Sure, it was boring to me, so I didnt put it in, they should be able to read and look at the pictures to figure it out."
But you guys are misconstruing matt's comment as a negative against the story when it was against how Morrison was acting in the interviews.
Correct.
I don't have a problem with the story of Final Crisis at all: I have a problem with the storytelling of Final Crisis, which is particularly ironic given how (a) it's all about story telling, and (b) Morrison appears to think himself the Messiah of the written language.
I think you're perceiving a lot of shit that isn't there at all, and projecting an intensely unhealthy attitude onto other people. I've seen this really weird, aggro, reverse snobbery directed a lot around FC, and frankly around Morrison in general. For fifteen years now some fans seemed absolutely convinced that - no matter how many reverential, almost dorkily earnest Superman stories he writes - he must be secretly laughing at the nerds behind their backs, from the safety of his secret hipster harem.
The guy isn't going out of his way to piss you off. From his point of view, he put the necessary things in there - and frankly, I agree. There is very little about FC that ended up being inexplicable after we had a few days to digest it. That's not to say that I think it needed to be as opaque as it sometimes was, or that it always worked, or that it wasn't hamstrung by a series of questionable decisions at all levels. But "the messiah of the written language"? Dude, breathe through a paper bag for a bit or something.
1. I might be the obvious of a "reverse snob", since if anything I love innovative stories and storytelling. I've actually quite enjoyed Morrison's work over the years, and in fact adore his work in New X-Men. I'm complaining about the attitude and storytelling he's demonstrating here, with Final Crisis (and the related tie-ins).
2. I do not believe in any conspiratorial, "they're all idiots" attitude towards everyone who reads his comics. He clearly loves his characters, and he clearly loves comics in general. When he chooses to write an accessible story, he does absolutely brilliant work that only a fan could create.
3. I disagree with him, and you, quite strongly about how much was actually there. Frankly, I do not believe you or most-any of us could have possibly extracted much of that information.
4. Good storytelling is not just creating a good story, and telling it in any way you want. It's telling a good story in a way that the audience of that story can engage with. In this case, Morrison chose to exclude virtually any connective tissue (to use his terms) which means that the story reads as tremendously rushed and ill-timed. He opted to tell a story far too dense for the available page-space, which means that whole elements had to be exiled to other books (e.g. the Superman Beyond stuff, and any explanation of how Batman got from the Helicopter to Granny's chair).
5. I do believe that Morrison is disrespectful towards his readers, with regards to those of us who dislike his storytelling here. His language about people who disagree with the storytelling has been consistently insulting and patronizing.
Complicated never automatically means better. Complicated structure, complex grammar, etc. can contribute to quality, and few would doubt that it can lead to amazing quality. However, it is a tool that must be employed properly, and Morrison failed here in my estimation.
It was like an anti event book, instead of giving new readers something to jump in on, it gave old readers something even more convoluted and specific to the continuity.
Here's how to fix DC: Put out TPBs! It's like they don't want to make money.
DC on the other hand has no such common vision. Geoff Johns is able to orchestrate some mighty good events, such as the Sinestro War and the New Krypton arcs. But that hardly comprises the whole universe.
In fact, I would say Johns is running in one direction, and Morrison is running in a completely different direction, and then you've got Didio who is a complete incompetent and is giving all sorts of bogus editorial mandates for shit stories that don't need to be written (like the Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul).
To fix the DCU, or at least bring a bit more cohesion, they need to fire Didio and bring someone on board with the ability to set a vision for the entire brand.
Evidently there are 4 six issue Final Crisis aftermath series starting in may.
Final Crisis Aftermath: Run!
Final Crisis Aftermath: Dance!
Final Crisis Aftermath: Ink: this is about what it means to be a hero in the DCU.
Final Crisis Aftermath: Escape, described as 'what it means when you know too much about the DCU'.
buyin it
Dance
Ink
Run
That's pretty rad!
Also it's good that the Japanese heroes aren't going to be forgotten and we're actually going to get some follow-up on the Human Flame.
I'm surprisingly excited at the prospect of a heroic Tattooed Man as well.
Yes but Escape is implying trying to get out of a certain place while Run in this context likely applies to the Human Flame trying to hide from every superhero on the planet.
Whatever happened to just, you know, making good books? I realize to the modern comics reader this is apparently a crazy 4-D timecube notion from beyond time and space, but you know, when I spent years filling in my back runs of Starman or Sandman Mystery Theatre or the Englehart Captain America or the Layton/Michelinie Iron Man the one thing I was assuredly not doing was going "man this book sure fit in seamlessly with the big crossover events of its day!"
Exactly. And while I honestly do enjoy the occasional big mega-event as much as the next guy, the idea that a company can bestow "vision" upon its creators is absurd. Quality happens from the ground up, not from the top down. One of the most fertile periods for great comics was DC/Vertigo from about 1988 to 1995, and there wasn't some big movement afoot - just Ostrander on Suicide Squad, Giffen/DeMatteis on JLI, Morrison on Doom Patrol, Milligan on Shade the Changing Man, et cetera et cetera, all of them just quietly cranking out amazing work in their individual styles.
If someone wants cohesion and a line-wide vision, they can buy that big Secret Wars II omnibus, and I wish them joy of it.
EDIT: and Delano on Hellblazer, Gaiman on Sandman, Matt Wagner doing Sandman Mystery Theatre, Waid on the Flash, Ostrander doing the Spectre...I mean, my god, it just goes on and on and on. The only thing any of these books really had in common was that they were apparently all written by people who enjoyed what they were doing, instead of hustling to get five books a month out the door the way today's writers seem to.
the super young team cover looks like they're going to team up with the runaways
Giffen on Doom Patrol? Pretty cool.
Giffen, DeMatteis, and Maguire on Metal Men back-ups? Fucking awesome.
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That would be comic of the century.
Agreed. Sometimes you wanna just read a good story.
This was a good discussion of Final Crisis as well: http://comics.ign.com/articles/950/950703p1.html
Reading what Grant meant to do makes it all sound awesome, but actually reading the works myself I didn't get out what he says he put in. Maybe it's there, I definitely see the potential for it, I just don't know if I myself see it or would have been able to divine any of it without scads of outside help. It's that last part that's a problem, especially for a big event book. Accessibility level of Final Crisis was a big fat ZERO.
He reminds me of Gene Wolfe actually.
No, what bugs me is that Morrison's stated mission with the book was to help the DCU put all the grim n' gritty, street-level stuff behind it, and usher in a new era of spirited, free-wheeling cosmic lunacy that only comics can deliver. I mean, that was the stated subtext behind Superman defeating the decaying, wretched remains of two universal evils, right?
Really, I'm all for it. I'd love to see a return to the DCU of a decade ago, where the company was very obviously not even trying to compete with Marvel on their own turf, but rather doing their own thing. Crazy, fun shit like Hourman, Young Justice, JSA, Flash, One Million, etc. That was the DCU I fell in love with, and if they could bring that tone back, I'd be buying a lot more of their books.
But Morrison decided to tell a story that, I feel, was at odds with his stated objectives for the book. To me, Final Crisis was just as grim, miserable, and devoid of fun as all the books it was trying to tear down. Sure you've got Superman using music as a weapon, and the Metal Men acting as vehicles for heroes to ride into battle on, but the whole thing had an air of misery and depression around it. I mean, when you're writing Tawky Tawny clawing out someone's entrails, Mary Marvel wearing fetish gear while grinding on Captain Marvel Jr., and Dan Turpin beating a villain with a toilet seat, I feel it's kind of at odds with the promotion of a funner, less gritty universe.
I wish Morrison would have tried harder to tell a story like he apparently wants others to tell. When I think of fun, crazy events in the past, I think of stuff like Our Worlds at War, World Without Grown Ups, JLApes, Emperor Joker, or Morrison's own One Million. These were events where some serious, depressing shit happened; Doomsday killing and maiming villains sent to free him, Guy Gardner and Aquaman being killed, Guardian and Human Bomb leading young soldiers to their deaths, and so on. But they also had a tone that gave the stories this mythic, larger than life feel, and made even the serious events fun. Don't get me wrong, they all certainly had their flaws, but they had a certain energy and excitement behind them that was downright contagious.
But, rather than get a story like that, we got this depressing, gritty epic with the message that DC should try doing some more fun, crazy shit. Unfortunately, Final Crisis was DC's top-selling comic for all the months it was published, so all it proved was that depressing, gritty shit sells, and sells well. And what do we have as a follow up?
I relish the fun, quirky stuff that DC still does, like Booster Gold, JSA, Blue Beetle, Green Lantern, and GLC. I'm sure Flash will be a great read under Johns. But I read stuff like the above quotes and I just really, really wish Morrison would have wrote a fun, awesome book that sold 100,000 copies, rather than the one he did.
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