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Girl Advice [with update]

kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated foraRegistered User regular
edited June 2009 in Help / Advice Forum
OK, so i'll probably delete the OP just out of an overabundance of caution, but here's my story..

Last weekend, a girl I knew a long time ago for a few (intense, platonically) months but didn't speak to for a decade is back around, found out I broke up with my gf, and we made out for like two hours. Next night (saturday), repeat, I stay over (though just making out...bizarre!). On Monday morning she's friendly, but fleeting (touches me then gets to class). That evening, I ask her if she wants to get coffee sometime - she gives a good reason why she can't, and says "raincheck?" at the end. I ask her if she wants to go out on thursday night, same sort of response.

I have a few questions:
1) It's possible she's just trying to brush me off and is being too nice. The only reason this is an ambiguous question is because she went out of her way to signal going out later "raincheck?" and give excuses, rather than a generic "busy this weekend" sort of response that i'd expect if I was getting the polite brush-off. How to figure this out without doing something stupid and emo like giving her a piece of paper entitled "Do you like me? Circle yes or no"

2) Even if she isn't trying to get rid of me, I don't want to come on too strong - i've done the texting offering an idea both times this week and have gotten shot down both times. I feel like if this keeps up it's going to make a pattern of me creepily badgering her. How long should I wait to txt her again? Is texting the wrong idea? Do I call? B/c we go to a smallish program together, I'm pretty sensitive to giving her space at school.

Anyway, I really don't want to either be creepy or feel creepy...

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kaliyama on

Posts

  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I'd say it's on her to initiate. If she doesn't, let it go.

    Maybe your move now is to see her in class and say hi and make nice small talk so she has an opportunity.

    Speaker on
  • GrimmGrimm Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I agree with Speaker. You've tried twice, now its up to her.

    Grimm on
  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Yeah, but they were messages with very clear, very direct "let's try again" msgs. I'm over it, mostly, but what I'd really like is some insight into her motivations regardless.

    Usually these threads are posted by people who misread the signs of a girl trying to let them down gently. Saying "raincheck?" after she couldn't go out both times, and touching in a boundary-invading way, don't strike me as the typical behavior of someone who is trying to let someone else down gently.

    kaliyama on
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  • The Black HunterThe Black Hunter The key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple, unimpeachable reason to existRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Some people live stupidly busy lives

    I know a girl who works every day and has friends constantly bugging her to hang out, naturally, hanging out with her is something that can take a couple of weeks to accomplish

    then again this is a girl I speak to constantly, so all the above is likely irrelevant

    The Black Hunter on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    kaliyama wrote: »
    Yeah, but they were messages with very clear, very direct "let's try again" msgs. I'm over it, mostly, but what I'd really like is some insight into her motivations regardless.

    She might not have clear motivations to have insight into.

    She's made out with an old friend. Okay, so there's obviously some physical attraction there. But making out with an old platonic friend can feel awkward. Maybe she's not sure she wants a relationship with you because of your past history. Maybe she's really busy and she's not sure she wants a relationship at all. Maybe she's stalling to play for time to get her head straight and figure things out. Maybe there's some other guy she's dating and she's trying to figure out where she stands with him. Maybe she got a taste of you and she's decided that she doesn't really want any more.

    There's really no way to know. So try not to stress about it.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • BelruelBelruel NARUTO FUCKS Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    i would say give it a few days, then next time you see her in person, nonchalantly tell her to give you a call when she feels like hanging out sometime. boom, ball is in her court and she knows it. then go about your life, continuing to date if she takes too long for you to wait (i would say a week to two weeks).

    Belruel on
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  • The Black HunterThe Black Hunter The key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple, unimpeachable reason to existRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Feral wrote: »
    kaliyama wrote: »
    Yeah, but they were messages with very clear, very direct "let's try again" msgs. I'm over it, mostly, but what I'd really like is some insight into her motivations regardless.

    She might not have clear motivations to have insight into.

    She's made out with an old friend. Okay, so there's obviously some physical attraction there. But making out with an old platonic friend can feel awkward. Maybe she's not sure she wants a relationship with you because of your past history. Maybe she's really busy and she's not sure she wants a relationship at all. Maybe she's stalling to play for time to get her head straight and figure things out. Maybe there's some other guy she's dating and she's trying to figure out where she stands with him. Maybe she got a taste of you and she's decided that she doesn't really want any more.

    There's really no way to know. So try not to stress about it.

    You just gave the poor bastard enough reason to not sleep for the next week.

    But all I can say is try not to think about it, because you can't do anything about it for now.

    The Black Hunter on
  • vonPoonBurGervonPoonBurGer Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Feral wrote: »
    She's made out with an old friend. Okay, so there's obviously some physical attraction there. But making out with an old platonic friend can feel awkward. Maybe she's not sure she wants a relationship with you because of your past history. Maybe she's really busy and she's not sure she wants a relationship at all. Maybe she's stalling to play for time to get her head straight and figure things out. Maybe there's some other guy she's dating and she's trying to figure out where she stands with him. Maybe she got a taste of you and she's decided that she doesn't really want any more.
    I'd put money on the reason for her behavior being that things went from "first time seeing each other in a decade" to "extended make-out sessions" in what sounds like a very short span of time. So maybe that kind of freaked her out a bit and now she's trying to keep you at arm's length while she makes up her mind on how she feels about that. In terms of how to deal with that, I think Speaker nailed it in the first reply.

    vonPoonBurGer on
    Xbox Live:vonPoon | PSN: vonPoon | Steam: vonPoonBurGer
  • EliminationElimination Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    kaliyama wrote: »
    Yeah, but they were messages with very clear, very direct "let's try again" msgs. I'm over it, mostly, but what I'd really like is some insight into her motivations regardless.

    Usually these threads are posted by people who misread the signs of a girl trying to let them down gently. Saying "raincheck?" after she couldn't go out both times, and touching in a boundary-invading way, don't strike me as the typical behavior of someone who is trying to let someone else down gently.

    Some girls are just like that, they have fleeting interests in some people. I knew a girl that bounced to a new guy almost every 2 weeks because she always lost interest and became interested in someone new. I began to incredibly dislike this girl because of it (And the fact she always blamed everyone else for all her failed relationships.) she also used to make up lots of excuses and things to guys that were flat out lies but they were believable.

    Some girls, unfortunately, are just like that. They have fleeting interests and flavors of the week. It sounds harsh but there is a chance thats what you were. Just be glad you didn't sleep with her i guess. I know its usually guys who get pegged as being "players" or whatever, but ive met a ton of girls who fall into that category as well, probably just as much as guys. It just isn't as noticed because unlike most guys, these girls will hide it and lie about it to avoid being looked at badly.

    Yeah sounds a little cynical, but i've seen it be done to friends and watched said girl do it to multiple people over and over again and i found i lost all trust in them just by watching her spin all these lies to people all the time. But yeah, some girls are like that, unfortunately.

    I am not saying this is what she is like, but people DO change and its a possibility. My ex Fiance turned into someone like this after we split because she craved the attention of other people after being with me for 5 years steady and did and said anything she could to get it, and it didnt matter what kind of attention, as long as it was on her. And she was the total opposite when we first met and through the majority of our relationship.

    Elimination on
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  • oldsakoldsak Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    kaliyama wrote: »
    Yeah, but they were messages with very clear, very direct "let's try again" msgs. I'm over it, mostly, but what I'd really like is some insight into her motivations regardless.

    I wouldn't call "raincheck?" a very direct "let's try again" message. "Sorry I'm busy Thursday, but I'm free Saturday" is a very direct "let's try again" message.

    "Raincheck?" sounds like "maybe another time" or is possibly even her way of being kind to your ego.

    oldsak on
  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    As a general rule of thumb, the difference between a girl who is trying to brush you off and a girl who wants to go out with you but is sincerely busy goes as follows:

    1. "I'm busy Thursday, but maybe some other time."

    2. "I'm busy Thursday. What are you doing Friday?"

    As for why she's like this, I'd suggest that it really doesn't matter in the long run, does it? There could be any number of specific reasons. She may be driven by the need for attention. She may be running away because she thinks you're on the rebound and doesn't want to get burned. She may not be looking for anything serious herself and thinks you might want more than what she's willing to offer. She may just suck at this whole dating thing. Regardless, you got to make out with a cute girl you've known for a while and had a crush on. Rather than focus on what you didn't get out of her, try and be happy about what time you did get to have with her, and wait to see if she signals she's interested in more down the line.

    edit: Wow I can't believe in the five minutes it took me to drink my coffee and write this that someone already posted the same fucking thing. Yay concensus?

    SammyF on
  • RikushixRikushix VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I'd just suggest not initiating anything more. If she really wants to hang out again, she'll do something. At this point she may just not be interested enough and it's probably not worth pursuing if she's that hard to pin down.

    Rikushix on
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  • oncelingonceling Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    If I liked a guy, I would feel bad after 2 times of not being free and I would make my own suggestion of when to hang out. To make it clear that I was interested and so he didn't have to chase me around.

    If I didn't like a guy, OR I was one of those irritating wishy-washy picky bitches, who likes to get attention previously already outlined in the thread, I would act like this chick is.

    onceling on
  • DarkSymphonyDarkSymphony Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    you've done what you can and in every way it's up to her now. if she ditches the idea well do what you can to move on and forget about it.

    the idea of starting small talk in another area of discussion aside from talking about hanging out, is a good idea as was previously stated that way she has a perfect oppertunity to bring it up.

    DarkSymphony on
  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I ignored all you guys, with mixed results! (Generally, ignoring H/A crowd wisdom is a big mistake.)

    I asked if she wanted to do something this week (something specific + fun), and she gave very good, specified reasons why she was busy. I said "Np, sorry to bother!," and she said "You're not bothering me, I promise!"

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    So the friendliness of this, and thus the wishy-washiness hadn't really gone away. I wanted a little bit of closure, and since i'm out of here in two months anyway, and aren't easily embarassed, I didn't feel bad asking and I had absolutely nothing to lose. So I sent one last msg going "I totally understand what feb was like my first year, so no worries. Want to do it when things are less crazy? Unless you're trying to tell me you're washing your hair till May, but I wanted to be sure :p" And she responded "I'll def. go when things are less crazy! Thanks for understanding."

    So that was actually a pretty positive outcome - it's still possible she's being -really- passive aggressive, but there was no reason for her not to be more direct in the last msg, and I didn't sleep more than 3 hrs/day for these weeks in 1L. So we'll see how things go in a couple of weeks. She's really happy to talk + be social with me - I was making myself much more emo by framing each interaction as "wanna do something?" because she's too busy (or more likely, too stressed) to want to go out right now, but is happy to msg/talk etc. She could also want to just be friends and not hook up again, which is fine as long as that relationship gets delinated one way or the other.

    So really, it was a last minute recovery, and the best that could be expected...

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    kaliyama on
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  • RikushixRikushix VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Hey, you salvaged all the niceties and politeness that you could get out of that, so good job. Now you know where she stands, and you can free up your mind to other interests.

    Ignoring H/A though...walkin' a fine line there...

    Rikushix on
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  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    If you're going to ignore us, should I bother asking why you're trying to squeeze complicated situations into 160 characters by going to "let's discuss our relationship via text message" route? :wink:

    SammyF on
  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    You're entirely correct. I did it Because we go to a smallish program together - I don't want to have a personal conversation or make her feel awkward in a public, shared space. Talking to her (maybe over the phone) would have been best? And because i'm pathetic. :(

    kaliyama on
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  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    kaliyama wrote: »
    You're entirely correct. I did it Because we go to a smallish program together - I don't want to have a personal conversation or make her feel awkward in a public, shared space. Talking to her (maybe over the phone) would have been best? And because i'm pathetic. :(

    Yeah, asking her out over texting is not the best idea. As in, don't do it. Ever.

    Spawnbroker on
    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    BTW, she liked me, but a) really was busy and b) was used to being courted more. I found this out at a party with the girl I was dating, in between her and two of my other ex-girlfriends who formed a triangle around us. The girl trying to make out with me in that context went down real well, I can assure you.

    So, PA's usual advice doesn't always pan out - something to keep in mind as we tell other people what to do.

    kaliyama on
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  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    kaliyama wrote: »
    BTW, she liked me, but a) really was busy and b) was used to being courted more. I found this out at a party with the girl I was dating, in between her and two of my other ex-girlfriends who formed a triangle around us. The girl trying to make out with me in that context went down real well, I can assure you.

    So, PA's usual advice doesn't always pan out - something to keep in mind as we tell other people what to do.

    If she liked you, but was just playing hard to get, I say screw her. Girls that play hard to get are just sending mixed messages and playing mind games. Date someone who doesn't require a self-esteem boost from having her male interests fawn all over her before she dates them.

    Spawnbroker on
    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Let me tell you a little story that might fit in with yours and based on your experience you might agree or disagree.

    A while back, I was at a friend's party providing the music, flipping cds, keeping things interesting with the crowd. I hadn't really planned on getting to know anybody as I was just sitting, sipping my beer and enjoying my tunes. This girl comes along, sits next to me for the entire night and I end up getting her number.

    I call her, we end up going downtown, have dinner, find ourselves in a book store and proceed to make out for most of that time. Said our goodnights and went home. After that, we talked a few times, were distant and then drifted apart.

    So why did this end up with us parting company? It could be that she wanted things to be a little more intimate, wanted me to take initiative and invite her home (I found out through a mutual friend that this was bang on). It could be that I was a terrible kisser (although humoring me for that long would require a great amount of endurance). It could have been what I said (Not really considering we did the kissing afterwards).

    See, by me backing off, I let time sink in and all the shielding she brought down came back up. My advice would be to catch her off guard, when she's in a good mood and see how far you can get intimately as this might be her only reason for making out with you for a two hour period in the first place. She might also be a little shy on initiative. Take the aggressive route. If it backfires you can always say something about mixed signals. I think she just wants to jump your bones dude.

    Meiz on
  • RocketSauceRocketSauce Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Highschool/college girls who act like they're fucking CEOs of a company and work 12 hours a day with no time on the weekends don't deserve to be in a relationship. You're better off not dating someone who can't 'pencil you in' a couple hours a week.

    RocketSauce on
  • oldsakoldsak Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    kaliyama wrote: »
    BTW, she liked me, but a) really was busy and b) was used to being courted more. I found this out at a party with the girl I was dating, in between her and two of my other ex-girlfriends who formed a triangle around us. The girl trying to make out with me in that context went down real well, I can assure you.

    So, PA's usual advice doesn't always pan out - something to keep in mind as we tell other people what to do.

    If she liked you, but was just playing hard to get, I say screw her. Girls that play hard to get are just sending mixed messages and playing mind games. Date someone who doesn't require a self-esteem boost from having her male interests fawn all over her before she dates them.

    My general rule of thumb is don't bother with girls from law school.

    oldsak on
  • NamrokNamrok Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Bottom line. If a girl really likes you, she will make time for you. Even if its just 30 minutes or an hour here and there. Nobody is so busy they can't even spare the time to speak to you.

    She's not interested.

    Namrok on
  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Namrok wrote: »
    Bottom line. If a girl really likes you, she will make time for you. Even if its just 30 minutes or an hour here and there. Nobody is so busy they can't even spare the time to speak to you.

    She's not interested.

    I posted the update to show that this sort of thinking isn't always the correct approach.

    kaliyama on
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  • EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    kaliyama wrote: »
    Namrok wrote: »
    Bottom line. If a girl really likes you, she will make time for you. Even if its just 30 minutes or an hour here and there. Nobody is so busy they can't even spare the time to speak to you.

    She's not interested.

    I posted the update to show that this sort of thinking isn't always the correct approach.

    Of course, it depends on the girl.

    More importantly, it depends on YOU. If a girl is single and kissing you, if you're 100% certain that you want to date this girl, you don't need to ask a forum. You don't need to check with your friends. You take a breath from all the kissing and say "you know, this isn't just me speaking in the moment, but you want to catch coffee tomorrow morning (or saturday afternoon)?"

    Note that I have been with my now-wife for almost 10 years, so this is speaking a bit from memory, but I dated a few girls where they absolutely wanted me to take the initiative. I'm not dense, I could tell, but I didn't act. Part of it was that I was scared of rejection. But another part of me was that I wasn't really that into them. Yes, they were kind of cute, yes, we could have a short conversation that wasn't too awkward, but yes, I also didn't really get the feeling that I wanted to see them again or form a relationship.

    So I let it drift apart. At the time, of course I wrestled with feelings that I should call them back, that I should set up a date, and that I could get in with them -- but I didn't want to.

    When I met my wife, when we parted ways from our afternoon date, I said "this is a lot of fun, do you want to go somewhere else, like see a movie?" and she said "no, I have errands to do, how about something later on?" Which, you know, totally sounds like she was blowing me off. But instead of giving up, I called her the next day and said "hey, yesterday was fun, I was wondering if you wanted to come over for a movie on Wednesday?" Since we were talking about movies during our first date, and some movies she liked that I hadn't seen, it made sense, and she accepted.

    I didn't need to check with friends or a forum because I wanted to date her. So I called her and asked for a more intimate date. If she had said no, then so be it, but when people drift apart it's only half one person's fault. The phone works both ways, after all.

    EggyToast on
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  • Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I ask girls out over text message all the time and it works. However, we are usually admidst a text conversation at the time. And i hate talking on the phone.

    Dr. Frenchenstein on
  • EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Phone, text, email, WoW, face-to-face, whatever. The only truth is that the richer the medium, the richer the communication.

    EggyToast on
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  • Dr. FrenchensteinDr. Frenchenstein Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    oh i agree, i'd much rather talk in person. I'm pretty charming in person, but i am an awkward weirdo on the phone for more than 5 minutes.

    Dr. Frenchenstein on
  • EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Yeah, I don't think you're alone either. Although, for me, that's why I try (well, tried) to keep phone convos with potential dates to a minimum -- use the phone to plan, and talk in person. Which holds true for email, IM, text, as well. Use it to set up the event, and then spend the actual face time communicating. Your wit, humor, or whatever, always comes across better in person than any other form where the person can't see your face.

    I've also found that it's far easier to be entertaining or interesting with someone in a textual form after they actually know me a bit, in person. mostly because they "get me" after seeing me a couple times.

    EggyToast on
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