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College or a mentorship?

yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
edited February 2009 in Help / Advice Forum
College is coming up, and I know I'm getting the hell out of here this fall!

I also know the deadline has passed for most of the places I'd be applying to. So I know my first semester out of school is going to be spent prepping for...I don't know what yet.

Which is where we reach a core issue: Do I even want to go to college, or just reap the social benefits of a college TOWN and maybe sit in a class or two? Or should I go for a mentorship?

On the college side:
-Degree is always useful.
-Would learn lots of new things.
-Many colleges have store rooms filled with lenses for students to borrow, and dark rooms for film work.

On a more mentorshippy side:
-I work better independently with some one-on-one help than in a classroom environment.
-College is fucking expensive.
-How much is a degree really going to help in the freelance photog world, especially once I get some respectable clients under my belt?

In general:
-I know I'm going to continue learning the art of photography SOMEHOW, and I know I want to pursue this as a career. I haven't felt this driven towards something in a long-ass time.
-I know I'm going to get the fuck out of this town no matter what, so that doesn't really push it one way or the other.
-I know I'm going to be in a college town, since I'm following a friend who's definitely going to college to give myself a bit of familiarity in the chaos. So I'll have all the non-student benefits(and drawbacks, to be fair) of that kind of area.

So, what do you guys think? Is a degree really going to help that much? Remember that I know the technicals inside and out, so the class isn't going to teach me much. The entire purpose of doing this would be the piece of paper at the end. Is that paper REALLY worth up to 30 grand a year?

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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Do you have any money set aside, will someone be helping with the costs, and are you available for any scholarships?
    Lets face it, being a professional photographer is hard. Not saying don't study it, but have a back up plan, get an education you can apply to being a professional photographer or anything else.
    yalborap wrote: »
    Remember that I know the technicals inside and out, so the class isn't going to teach me much. The entire purpose of doing this would be the piece of paper at the end. Is that paper REALLY worth up to 30 grand a year?

    You know what technicals, photography technicals? All of them? Really?
    And not that I know what schools you are looking at, but 30 grand is a lot. As in you can easily find a school where you can get a degree for that if not significantly less.

    Improvolone on
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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Starting to build up savings, and costs are kind of iffy. Right now money's really tight, but we were moving a LOT of money up until just earlier this year, so I wouldn't qualify for major financial aid until next semester anyways.

    And I definitely know the job is gonna be hard. But I also know that I'd waaay rather be in a little apartment doing what I love than a big house paid for with a job I hate. And there are most certainly shades of grey between those two extremes that I'll be dipping into as need be(I wouldn't be above grabbing something entry-level for a few weeks or months if things get really bad long-term, just to keep afloat, and I wouldn't be above doing genres of photography I'm not a huge fan of if the pay was right and I was confident I could do it well.), but you get my point.

    yalborap on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I get your point.
    But here is some personal perspective. I have a bachelors in Theatre. I would love to move to Chicago or LA and establish myself as a professional actor. Problem is... its really fucking difficult. Not only does my age range have the most competition, but also the fewer roles. I also have a family to take care of. I know this is probably a different situation than you, but someone in the arts needs to have something else until what they have takes off. I do get professional work where I am, and will continue to seek it out. Advice from a teacher of mine, "a starving artist is no longer an artist".
    I know two professional photographers. One works for Glamour Shots in the mall, and the other has his own studio. I think both of them do outside work to help with the bills. You really gotta be realistic trying to make it as an artist.

    I'm using my theatre background to get an entry level management position and going from there. Again, this won't be exactly for you, but try to glean what you can. Maybe you'll just work in a call center or temp agency, but have something in mind. The farther you can take that job, the better. Having a degree will, for the most part but not in every situation, help you get the jobs that you'll need to survive.

    Improvolone on
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    LailLail Surrey, B.C.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I know nothing about photography, but if you wanted to become a full-time employee at a newspaper or magazine or something, I would assume that having a degree (or some kind of formal education) would really help.

    Also, college is a great place to network with people who are going to be entering and one day running the industry you're trying to get into. Even if you go for only a semester or two and decide it's not for you, you will probably make some valuable contacts (students AND professors).

    Lail on
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    noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited February 2009

    You know what technicals, photography technicals? All of them? Really?
    And not that I know what schools you are looking at, but 30 grand is a lot. As in you can easily find a school where you can get a degree for that if not significantly less.

    You didn't answer Improvolone's question.

    You're in the 17-19 range right? I know it can be really exciting to finally be on the brink of getting out of high school/hometown, but you really need to get rid of your current "I know everything" mentally, as it honestly sinks a lot of people.

    You could also do well to throw the "it's just a piece of paper" thing as well. Either that or my advice would be that no, don't go to college if that's your thinking.

    I want to be a writer, I love writing, and want to do that as a career. But I'm getting my major in Education, and propping that up with as many English classes as I possibly can. I love most of the English classes I taken, as by the time you get into the upper level classes, you get students that honestly want to be there, and that want to discuss the work. I would imagine it's the same with any field.

    noir_blood on
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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    noir_blood wrote: »

    You know what technicals, photography technicals? All of them? Really?
    And not that I know what schools you are looking at, but 30 grand is a lot. As in you can easily find a school where you can get a degree for that if not significantly less.

    You didn't answer Improvolone's question.

    You're in the 17-19 range right? I know it can be really exciting to finally be on the brink of getting out of high school/hometown, but you really need to get rid of your current "I know everything" mentally, as it honestly sinks a lot of people.

    You could also do well to throw the "it's just a piece of paper" thing as well. Either that or my advice would be that no, don't go to college if that's your thinking.

    I want to be a writer, I love writing, and want to do that as a career. But I'm getting my major in Education, and propping that up with as many English classes as I possibly can. I love most of the English classes I taken, as by the time you get into the upper level classes, you get students that honestly want to be there, and that want to discuss the work. I would imagine it's the same with any field.

    Well...Okay, I don't know ALL the technicals, no. But I know a hell of a lot of what I'd be able to pick up in a class.

    And yeah, just turned 17 this year.

    Sorry if I'm seeming defensive or anything, guys. I'm just really torn about this issue, you know? To be entirely honest, I don't want to put 4 years into a college, but I'd do it if the degree was going to be valuable enough long-term.

    yalborap on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    If you don't want to be there then you won't get anything from being there.
    But lets be realistic, you have no way of knowing what you would be learning. Granted, I don't know your experience either.
    Have you contacted any photography studios to see if you can work there? Is this what you mean by mentorship?
    yalborap wrote: »
    or just reap the social benefits of a college TOWN and maybe sit in a class or two?
    How would you sit in on classes but not be registered? Sure you could get away with it in a 500 student general chemistry class, but a photography class?


    What I think you should do: If you can get a mentorship, then do it full time and don't go to college. It doesn't sound like you want to be there. You also probably don't have enough money for an art school.

    Improvolone on
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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I was thinking mentorship in a more old-school, one on one sense. Contact some photographers in the area that're good and do a combination of gopher work, photo assistant work, and everything else while soaking up knowledge and being paid only the smallest amount they legally have to, since the goal is knowledge instead of money.

    yalborap on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    It's hard to live making the bare minimum, especially if you want to get out of where ever you are and are leaving potential free room and board behind. I would be surprised if any studio gave you 40+ hours a week.
    So, have you contacted any photographers to see if they would even do that?
    If you are going to do this, you need to figure out how much you need to make in order to live (bare minimum) a month. You don't want to go into debt for this.

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    4U2NV4U2NV Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    yalborap wrote: »
    I was thinking mentorship in a more old-school, one on one sense. Contact some photographers in the area that're good and do a combination of gopher work, photo assistant work, and everything else while soaking up knowledge and being paid only the smallest amount they legally have to, since the goal is knowledge instead of money.

    I would be highly skeptical that this is even an option. And if it was, you probably would not be getting paid.
    I'm not getting a sense why you don't want to go to school for photography. Are you saying because you don't think they can teach you things / overall benefit of having a degree would not offset the amount of money you would be spending?

    4U2NV on
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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    The mentorship wouldn't be a main career or anything. I'd be working to pay bills while doing it.

    As for contacting, that's kinda tricky, since I don't know where exactly I'm going to be moving yet, so I can't really contact anyone until I know. Which waits for other factors to fall into place.

    yalborap on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    And the other factors are...
    Okay, so you will be working elsewhere. Doing what? Oh, you don't know where you will be so you can't say. If you aren't going to college, it behooves you to stay at home to help you get started. If you must leave (which I understand) do not movie anywhere without a job waiting for you. It's a tough job market out there man, even for stupid jobs.
    You can get one on one time with professors, even in a 500 seat class. You just need to do it on your own time. And I promise you, photography classes will not be anywhere close to that size.

    If you choose not to go to college, and least make sure its for real reasons.

    It sounds like you are waiting for life to make decisions for you. Google (town you want to live in) photography studio and e-mail them. Hell, send an e-mail to 10 different studios in every capitol for the 48 continuous states. 480 possibilities for a yes.

    Its really hard to understand everything involved with living on your own and out of college until you actually do.

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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    4U2NV wrote: »
    yalborap wrote: »
    I was thinking mentorship in a more old-school, one on one sense. Contact some photographers in the area that're good and do a combination of gopher work, photo assistant work, and everything else while soaking up knowledge and being paid only the smallest amount they legally have to, since the goal is knowledge instead of money.

    I would be highly skeptical that this is even an option. And if it was, you probably would not be getting paid.
    I'm not getting a sense why you don't want to go to school for photography. Are you saying because you don't think they can teach you things / overall benefit of having a degree would not offset the amount of money you would be spending?

    I mainly just think I'd learn those same things better in another format, that's all.

    yalborap on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    So, you know all the technicals... I assume you'll also have access to lab equipment the same as you would at a University?

    Do you even have someone who is willing to mentor you, or are you just assuming there is a line of people waiting for the opportunity?

    Photography is a hard field to make a living in. A degree helps you by giving you access to courses that can either help you make a living doing photography (marketing, business, computers, etc.) or actually get you a job while you build up a photography business.

    Sentry on
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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I shoot digital typically, which severely reduces the need for a fullblown lab/dark room kinda set up.

    Also, what about the idea of just signing up for a class at a nearby community college, or some other situation where we can skip most of the problems with a fullblown college experience and cut down to the parts I'd want? Kind of half between the two ideas.

    And as for the mentorship thing...Well, I look at it this way: I'm passionate, I'm willing to work, and I'm willing to do it for not a lot of money. That still leaves a lot of people in just my situation I need to get past to find someone willing, especially if I'm going somewhere big like SF, but it cuts out a hell of a lot of others.

    yalborap on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    San Francisco is the home of the San Francisco Art Institute.

    Their photography department was created by Ansel Adams... and you think you'll be able to compete there... how again?

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    projectmayhemprojectmayhem Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    One of my good friends is a Biology major...he is currently doing wedding photography just about Full Time. He hates every second of school considering it is doing nothing but slowing him down in photography. He took zero classes in it but he shoots anything and everyone and searches the internet daily for tips on how to get better.

    I am almost in the same boat. I graduated with a degree in Electronic Media (English Minor) and while I work part-time at a tv station, I hate it. It's shit pay yet I picked the job because it was in my field. Now however I am starting up a photography business and am hoping to have it full time by the end of summer.

    The only thing I like about college were the friends I made. I consider the rest of an extreme waste of time unless you are going to be a business/medical type major. Everyone has degrees these days, to stand out you ether need a masters or a fantastic portfolio in your area of study.

    If you do decided on college please please please go to a community college to get the basics out of the way. You will save SO much money. Now, if you have rich parents who are paying for you 100% to go, then why not?

    I would find a good photographer in your area and send them an email asking if you could tag along with them/internship with them for a while over this next summer. When clients are looking through your portfolio to see if they want to hire you, they will not ask you what college you even went to. The product is what matters and if you think you need to college to better your product, then do it.

    http://blog.chasejarvis.com/blog/2008/12/secret-to-success-in-photography.html

    projectmayhem on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Photography students at the state University I went to take their own photos, get taught and critiqued by professionals, and have access to decent equipment (aside from the camera, that is the students).
    Here are some of the classes photography majors can take in my alma matter (in-state less than two grand).
    History and criticism of art 1-3
    Principles of design and color
    Digital graphic fundamentals
    Photojournalism 1-3
    Large format photography
    Studio portraiture
    Location portraiture
    Applied photography
    Contemporary photography
    Image, culture, and society

    Does this sound usefull, or do you think a working photagrapher has the time/knowledge to teach this?

    Improvolone on
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    noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    It's really not college's fault that you both picked fields that apparently neither of you have any interest in whatsoever.

    If you have a good idea of what you're going to be doing once out of College, then it can be a great thing, as Improvolone pointed out. Keep in mind that to get to those classes, you're going to need basics(and god yes, Community all the way for those), but if you're passionate, then you get through them.

    noir_blood on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    yalborap wrote: »
    Also, what about the idea of just signing up for a class at a nearby community college, or some other situation where we can skip most of the problems with a fullblown college experience and cut down to the parts I'd want? Kind of half between the two ideas.

    And as for the mentorship thing...Well, I look at it this way: I'm passionate, I'm willing to work, and I'm willing to do it for not a lot of money. That still leaves a lot of people in just my situation I need to get past to find someone willing, especially if I'm going somewhere big like SF, but it cuts out a hell of a lot of others.
    Community colleges don't have the professionals other institutes have, but it is something. If you need to for financial reasons, then absolutely take the gen ed stuff there. What type of problems do you associate with a fullblown college experience?
    A lot of young artists are in the same "will work for experience" boat.

    Improvolone on
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    projectmayhemprojectmayhem Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    One thing that I forgot to say, a degree puts you in one excellent spot while 'starting out'. You can substitute teach. Where I am it's 75 dollars a day weekends off, you work till 4pm. Not to shabby.

    Again though, you have to also pay back school.

    Maybe I am not the one to talk, I think of college as an up most waste of time.

    projectmayhem on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Which is a totally valid and helpful POV for a thread like this.

    Improvolone on
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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    yalborap wrote: »
    Also, what about the idea of just signing up for a class at a nearby community college, or some other situation where we can skip most of the problems with a fullblown college experience and cut down to the parts I'd want? Kind of half between the two ideas.

    And as for the mentorship thing...Well, I look at it this way: I'm passionate, I'm willing to work, and I'm willing to do it for not a lot of money. That still leaves a lot of people in just my situation I need to get past to find someone willing, especially if I'm going somewhere big like SF, but it cuts out a hell of a lot of others.
    Community colleges don't have the professionals other institutes have, but it is something. If you need to for financial reasons, then absolutely take the gen ed stuff there. What type of problems do you associate with a fullblown college experience?
    A lot of young artists are in the same "will work for experience" boat.

    Mainly the gen ed stuff, really. Some places aren't too bad about it from what I can find, while others are just retarded.

    yalborap on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    yalborap wrote: »
    yalborap wrote: »
    Also, what about the idea of just signing up for a class at a nearby community college, or some other situation where we can skip most of the problems with a fullblown college experience and cut down to the parts I'd want? Kind of half between the two ideas.

    And as for the mentorship thing...Well, I look at it this way: I'm passionate, I'm willing to work, and I'm willing to do it for not a lot of money. That still leaves a lot of people in just my situation I need to get past to find someone willing, especially if I'm going somewhere big like SF, but it cuts out a hell of a lot of others.
    Community colleges don't have the professionals other institutes have, but it is something. If you need to for financial reasons, then absolutely take the gen ed stuff there. What type of problems do you associate with a fullblown college experience?
    A lot of young artists are in the same "will work for experience" boat.

    Mainly the gen ed stuff, really. Some places aren't too bad about it from what I can find, while others are just retarded.

    Did I miss it, or did you mention where this mentor is coming from?

    Frankly, here's what I would do.. go to community college, take some classes. try and get a job at a photo studio, or some other such experience. BEFORE doing this, I would find a school that has a professor whose work I would want to learn from. That's where I would go set up shop. Get in state tuition by doing community college for two years, get all the gen ed stuff done, then transfer to the school with the artist you want to work with.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Where is an aspect I can't entirely figure out yet, as I don't even entirely know where I'm going to be going. SF is likely, and I've thrown out some feelers, but that could change before it's time to actually bail.

    Let us just assume, for the sake of argument, that I CAN find one. Okay? Logistics are a concern after I have made my decision and built my plan, not before.

    yalborap on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    If SF has the things that you want, then you should absolutely be there no matter how much work it will take. Perhaps getting there and finding a job (anywhere) should be your first priority.

    Gen Ed stuff is very important (in my opinion). Some stuff is silly, but it makes you a better rounded individual and you might discover a joy in something you never thought about. If you want to avoid gen eds, art school is your best (and most expensive) bet.

    You said "time to bail", do you have to leave by X day?

    Improvolone on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    yalborap wrote: »
    Where is an aspect I can't entirely figure out yet, as I don't even entirely know where I'm going to be going. SF is likely, and I've thrown out some feelers, but that could change before it's time to actually bail.

    Let us just assume, for the sake of argument, that I CAN find one. Okay? Logistics are a concern after I have made my decision and built my plan, not before.

    No, they aren't. But good luck.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    yalborap wrote: »
    Where is an aspect I can't entirely figure out yet, as I don't even entirely know where I'm going to be going. SF is likely, and I've thrown out some feelers, but that could change before it's time to actually bail.

    Let us just assume, for the sake of argument, that I CAN find one. Okay? Logistics are a concern after I have made my decision and built my plan, not before.

    No, they aren't. But good luck.

    They are for me. I figure out the results of potential success, then I figure out how to get to that point, not the other way around.

    And Improvolone, sorta. I'm leaving with a friend this fall when her college efforts begin, so because my plans are pretty fluid right now, it all depends on when she leaves and where she gets accepted.

    yalborap on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I don't know how you can build a plan without logistics.

    Oh, so it doesn't matter where you choose to live because you will live with her? Honestly, thats great. It means sometime soon a decision will be made where you will be, and you can go from there.

    Improvolone on
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    noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    yalborap wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    yalborap wrote: »
    Where is an aspect I can't entirely figure out yet, as I don't even entirely know where I'm going to be going. SF is likely, and I've thrown out some feelers, but that could change before it's time to actually bail.

    Let us just assume, for the sake of argument, that I CAN find one. Okay? Logistics are a concern after I have made my decision and built my plan, not before.

    No, they aren't. But good luck.

    They are for me. I figure out the results of potential success, then I figure out how to get to that point, not the other way around.

    And Improvolone, sorta. I'm leaving with a friend this fall when her college efforts begin, so because my plans are pretty fluid right now, it all depends on when she leaves and where she gets accepted.

    Wow... that umm, sounds like a horrible way to make plans.

    noir_blood on
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    Kate of LokysKate of Lokys Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    yalborap wrote: »
    Where is an aspect I can't entirely figure out yet, as I don't even entirely know where I'm going to be going. SF is likely, and I've thrown out some feelers, but that could change before it's time to actually bail.

    Let us just assume, for the sake of argument, that I CAN find one. Okay? Logistics are a concern after I have made my decision and built my plan, not before.
    This is really not a good way to plan things, Yal.

    San Francisco is an incredibly expensive city to live in, and it is jam-packed-full of aspiring artists of all types, including photographers. You might be able to swing it, if you can find an apartment for less than $1200 per month, and if you can find a job as an untrained 17 year old that pays at least $2000 per month (and that's cutting it really fucking close, the traditional guideline for economic stability is to earn at least three times what you pay in rent), and if you find a photographer willing to take you under his or her wing, and if you're able to learn a whole ton from them, and if you can translate that knowledge into getting a bunch of lucrative photography gigs, and if you're able to save the start-up capital necessary to get your own little studio going... but man, that is ten metric fucktons of ifs right there, and you're banking on all of them.

    I'll tell you right now, you will not be able to cut it as a professional photographer doing exclusively digital stuff, unless your ambitions reach no higher than doing wedding shoots for budget-conscious couples. At some point, you're going to need to learn everything there is to know about conventional photography, working with actual film, developing in a darkroom, etc. At some point, you're going to need access to high-end gear and highly-knowledgeable instructors. At some point, you're going to need to drum up more business than can be found through handing out business cards - you're going to need professional contacts, people to evaluate your work, help putting together a comprehensive portfolio, etc.

    Stop assuming that everything is just going to fall into your lap as soon as you figure out what you want from the world. It would be fantastic if the world worked that way, but it doesn't. Don't assume that you'll be able to find a dedicated mentor to apprentice under in whichever city you decide to settle in based on... what? What are you even looking for? If you're just starting out as a photographer, you will have much better luck getting business in a smaller town with minimal competition than in a place like San Fran-fricking-cisco, Starving Artist Capital of the Western World. Yes, I'm sure it's your dream to live in a loft apartment in a hundred-year-old renovated industrial building right above your private studio, but you can't jump directly from your parents' house to that in a single enthusiastic bound. There are steps to be taken first, and one step that makes all the others a whole lot easier is going to college.

    You're a very motivated person, and I'm sure you've successfully taught yourself a whole lot about photography in the months that you've been studying it. You have an obvious passion for it, you're dedicated, that's wonderful. But it just isn't enough for you to be able to skip going to school for it. Yes, a lot of the stuff you learn in college will be review, especially in the first year... but people don't really go to college just for the course content. They go for the networking opportunities, the social development, the access to feedback and equipment and tailored instruction.

    Start applying to colleges now. Figure out where you want to be based on a whole bunch of factors - cost of living in that particular city, quality of that college's program, local job market, and yes, send off those letters to photography studios asking about apprenticeship. Right now you don't have a plan, you have a vague theory. Narrow it down.

    And go to college.

    Edit: also, basing your entire plan around the idea of living with somebody else wherever she ends up for her college is not wise. What if you two have a falling out over the summer? What if she ends up in a dorm, and you can't stay with her? What if the city she goes to is, say, Flint, with a ridiculous unemployment rate and piss-poor opportunities for you as a photographer? This is your life, your future, your ambition. Don't just go along with what somebody else is doing.

    Kate of Lokys on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    yalborap wrote: »
    I figure out the results of potential success, then I figure out how to get to that point, not the other way around.
    As opposed to figuring out how to get to a point, and then figure out the results of where you are?
    o_O

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    noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Man, that's two posts in seperate threads where it's almost necessary to lime everything Kate said. Is she a female alt for Sarcastro or something now?

    noir_blood on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009

    Edit: also, basing your entire plan around the idea of living with somebody else wherever she ends up for her college is not wise. What if you two have a falling out over the summer? What if she ends up in a dorm, and you can't stay with her? What if the city she goes to is, say, Flint, with a ridiculous unemployment rate and piss-poor opportunities for you as a photographer? This is your life, your future, your ambition. Don't just go along with what somebody else is doing.

    To a degree, yes. But if he must leave home this option is a zillion times better than picking a place at random and having a go. Where ever you do move and for whatever reason, you are going to need to do a lot of research in order to struggle less.
    And if it does go wrong, maybe it will force him to make some major decisions about his life. Answering those types of questions is always a good thing.

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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    yalborap wrote: »
    I figure out the results of potential success, then I figure out how to get to that point, not the other way around.
    As opposed to figuring out how to get to a point, and then figure out the results of where you are?
    o_O

    ...I never claimed I was sane, okay? My point is more to assume that things will work out, because the assumption of failure does not aid me in the decision process. If every potential path is theoretically successful, then it can be judged purely on the grounds of where that success will take me, which is the important part. Because I'm stubborn enough that I WILL make it succeed once I'm all for something, no matter what it takes, as long as my passion keeps flowing.

    I could be denied by all the colleges I apply to. I could find every photographer in an area hates my guts and is overemploying anyways. I could find that the market for photography completely dies TOMORROW. But you know what? That shit doesn't help me, it just makes me paranoid and want to sit here all day where it's safe. I've got to pretend that the path I pick will work out so I can fucking start walking, or I'll never even stand up.

    Oh, and Kate, thanks for the advice. One thing, though: Digital's improving, and fast. And I'm not talking one of those little point-and-shoots when I talk digital, either. I'm talking proper high quality digital SLRs, where the gap between digital and film is getting smaller almost by the day, with a lot of very big and major stuff being done purely digital, and it's going to keep going that way. So, while you make a lot of good points, film is not nearly as big a requirement as it was even 5 or 10 years ago.

    yalborap on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    And yet more things that point to you needing an education!

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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    And yet more things that point to you needing an education!

    ...How? Because I'm acting like a child or something?

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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    yalborap wrote: »
    film is not nearly as big a requirement as it was even 5 or 10 years ago.
    Unless you are a fucking prodigy with technology, ignoring an entire subset of your profession is retarded. Think I'm gonna be a Shakespearean actor? No. Is there a reason for me to study it? Damned right there is.

    And I don't think anyone is saying to assume failure, but you do need to consider what if situations.

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    yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    yalborap wrote: »
    film is not nearly as big a requirement as it was even 5 or 10 years ago.
    Unless you are a fucking prodigy with technology, ignoring an entire subset of your profession is retarded. Think I'm gonna be a Shakespearean actor? No. Is there a reason for me to study it? Damned right there is.

    I'm not IGNORING it, and I could pick up a film SLR and use it just fine within a roll or two of experimentation before any job that'd actually require it, since so much translates over directly. Now, I couldn't pull off, say, a medium format as easily, no. But that's also beyond the scope of an average class.

    EDIT: And I have backup plans. They basically amount to "have enough to live for at least a month or two in savings before I get out of here", "look for a day job if all else fails", and "keep enough for train and bus fare back home if everything utterly shatters at once and it's either that or find a cardboard box in an alleyway".

    yalborap on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I don't know what medium format is or what techniques can be done to shooting and developing your own film, but you don't know what the scope is of a class unless you've seen the sylabus.

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