The problem is that /random is pretty shit when it comes to large groups of people. If there's two of you you'll win on average every second time. Even with really bad luck you'll get it after a few more tries. With multiple warbands rolling? Yeah, the chance that someone out of those people will get fuck-all the entire tier is not insignificant, and just makes for a shit experience.
Oh, and allowing you to pass on a roll. If I already got a gold bag I'd prefer someone who hasn't got one yet got it instead.
It'd also be pretty killer if people with epic influence no longer took their chunk of it come PQ grinding, given that they don't benefit from it any more anyway.
I'm pretty sure that the human tendency to remember those more noteworthy times you either felt you didn't earn the bag you got or didn't get the bag you felt you earned are skewing everyone's perception of keep bag rolls. I'm not saying the system isn't broken, it does seem to be pretty random how contribution for keeps is derived. However beyond that I don't believe the rolls are skewed off what one would expect from a truly random result. The simple reality is that most people are utterly terrible at estimating the probability of an event, or even worse, the probability of a series of events. Because of how most people think about probability, it's pretty much inevitable that any random loot roll system is going to piss people off and the contribution system makes it worse because it leads people to erroneously feel like they earned something they didn't get or got something they didn't earn.
The problem with that is that i've been keeping track. About the fifth time I rolled a >hundred in a row I began getting a bit ticked off and started paying attention to my rolls.
To date i've only gotten above five hundred on my natural roll five times, despite doing plenty of keep raids and regularly tanking the keep lord until he's dead (Which is another issue entirely, since I never really seem to get a significant amount of bonus.). Only one of those was a win, which was the previously mentioned green bag above. Either I have the worst fucking luck of anyone on the game, or something has got to be up.
unless you both had a significantly larger sample size to work from and actually kept track of exactly what you rolled each time so you could accurately calculate the mean, what you've posted really just confirms what I said previously: that you're basing your conclusion on a hunch supported by cherrypicked "evidence" that supports your gut feeling
The problem is that /random is pretty shit when it comes to large groups of people. If there's two of you you'll win on average every second time. Even with really bad luck you'll get it after a few more tries. With multiple warbands rolling? Yeah, the chance that someone out of those people will get fuck-all the entire tier is not insignificant, and just makes for a shit experience.
Oh, and allowing you to pass on a roll. If I already got a gold bag I'd prefer someone who hasn't got one yet got it instead.
It'd also be pretty killer if people with epic influence no longer took their chunk of it come PQ grinding, given that they don't benefit from it any more anyway.
I don't know where they saw it, but one of my guildies was saying that passing on a roll is actually being looked at for a future patch
which would be swell
didn't they already say there's a problem with contribution for keeps?
there was a podcast with paul and the team lead for the programmers or whatever
Yeah, its been posted now. The problem I have, is what happens when they make keep contribution 'work' completelly? It would seem to shaft the people who need the gear most. If say a level 36 SM in Devestator gear and a level 40 SM in Dark Promise are both taking a keep, the SM in DP gear should smoke the level 36 SM. They will do more damage/tanking and thusly generate more contribution. Therefore, the level 40 will always get higher in raw contribution than the 36, reducing his chances of earning a gold bag, despite the fact that the 36 actually needs to the gold bag more than the 40. At least with an essentially random system the 36 is on more or less equal footing.
Anyhow, that is why I favor a tokenized system for the end game sets. It removes cruel chance and unequal competitions from what can essentially be deemed 'necessary' gear in a PvP game. You can even give people some purely cosmetic stuff to earn with large numbers of keep tokens as an additional carrot for people.
I think they went too far in trying to figure out the fairest way possible and ended up with a monster that seems to almost have a will of it's own sometimes.
Personally I'd prefer a more sane version of the current system combined with a token system. Everyone who takes a keep gets a token which X number of can be turned in for a set piece or you can get lucky/actually work your ass off (assuming more sane version of contribution) and get them sooner. Figuring out a way to somewhat consistantly work the system on my Shadow Warrior was annoying.
Saam, the only trick to that is lower levels are "weighted" in the system more than 40s. Sure, the 40s will probably "do" more, but they still have to overcome that original boost the lower levels receive. Parts of this are evident elsewhere as well in scenarios, pve pqs; where the lower levels (if they actually do stuff) get a higher contribution because in theory it "would" take them more to keep up with the 40s.
We've had a WP stand stock still in a PQ and get 1st in contribution without healing, aura running, or anything. I've also seen the same tactic get absolute squat. Things I've seen as anecdotally helping as a tank, use your AoE taunt (as long as you have some healer help). I've said it before, just think of the system being 2 completely randomly generated numbers where the 2nd has a larger range of possible outcomes.
I'd "love" to see the instances giving out tokens, but keep contribution... would Happy's idea would be iffy. You want people still claiming keeps, and if you gave a large selection of people the tokens eventually you'd have a larger portion of the population who wouldn't go A LOT quicker than the current setup. A good compromise would possibly be to give a token in the current gold bags so that you don't get repeat gear. This way you would know that if you "did" get a gold bag you'd get something you could actually use instead of that 12th helmet.
And damnit servers, come up already. I've resorted to posting on the WAR forums about population imbalance already...
Well, I've been thinking along the lines of something like 15-20 keeps for a token, so the concievable max you'd have to do is 45-60 keeps.
I know I did a little over 60 before finally getting full Devastator on my Shadow Warrior and I was really sick of the contribution system/RNG by the time that ended. At least that taught me not to wait until you're in the upper end of the tier to start going after RvR set pieces :P
Well, I've been thinking along the lines of something like 15-20 keeps for a token, so the concievable max you'd have to do is 45-60 keeps.
I know I did a little over 60 before finally getting full Devastator on my Shadow Warrior and I was really sick of the contribution system/RNG by the time that ended. At least that taught me not to wait until you're in the upper end of the tier to start going after RvR set pieces :P
I lucked out and got a BP and Helm within days of each other, maybe 10 keeps total. Just have boots left which I am contemplating buying from the effin auction house as they never fucking drop.
My main got full annihilator well before he could use it by level or RR. My alt squig herder had full devastator by the time he could wear the gloves. I imagine the difference may well be luck or the fact I play in the evening pacific coast time. Less people tend to be on then and 3 bags split among 15 people over several keeps works out fine.
Saam, the only trick to that is lower levels are "weighted" in the system more than 40s. Sure, the 40s will probably "do" more, but they still have to overcome that original boost the lower levels receive. Parts of this are evident elsewhere as well in scenarios, pve pqs; where the lower levels (if they actually do stuff) get a higher contribution because in theory it "would" take them more to keep up with the 40s.
You can still end up with fairly perverse scenarios. What if there is a 40 that lacks a full Anni set. They will then be placed behind both sub-40's and 40's with better gears, despite the fact that they arguably need Anni gear more than either group (sub-40's because wards are necessary for further post-40 progression).
it would be funny if the servers didn't come back up until like 11:00 pm and then hardly anyone completed the day's objectives, thus making it harder/impossible for many to reach elite influence for the event
Something tells me it will be pretty close to the Heavy Metal event in terms of difficulty. The Keg End event inf was borked. I'm sure Mythic will get this right this time.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Update 2:30 PM EST 3/3/2009 - Please be advised of the following changes under the Witch Hunter Career (Balance Changes) :
* Emperor's Commendation: This tactic has been replaced by Protection from Heresy. This Core Tactic will be trainable at Rank 37 and have the following effect: “When leaving incognito you will become protected by a barrier that will absorb up to ‘X’ damage.â€
* Encourage Confession: This Tactic has been changed. The tactic will now cause Blessed Bullets of Confession to make any target affected by it 5% easier to critical hit and is now available at 11 points into the Path of Inquisition.
PMAvers on
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
What's this new tactic that lets BOs get more parry and damage with a 2h, again?
How much parry?
Why does this game constantly tempt me to stay BO?
It's an equivalent to the IB Greataxe Mastery tactic, which is plus 10% damage and 5% parry with a greatweapon.
Should be the same.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Not to my knowledge, but they have a tactic similar to the BO tactic Gork Smash, that gives a 10/20% buff to crit depending on stance. It also got buffed so that it works on all the hits from the SM five hit channeled attack, unlike the BO version.
Still waiting for the BO version to get buffed to work the same way.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
It is now? well then. I'm gonna have to over the notes again, I did not see that when they first went up, Thanks for the info.
Hiryu02 on
Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
Posts
I hadn't heard of that. Probably because I don't listen to the podcasts. Which one was it?
Oh, and allowing you to pass on a roll. If I already got a gold bag I'd prefer someone who hasn't got one yet got it instead.
It'd also be pretty killer if people with epic influence no longer took their chunk of it come PQ grinding, given that they don't benefit from it any more anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjDGJrLzGlQ
wasn't a podcast, but a video.
XBL
maaaaan.
XBL
which would be swell
Haha, I feel bad for the programmer.
"This is all your fault."
"Yes"
"You're a fucking tool and no one likes you."
"Um..."
"You're a fucking tool with great stonking bitch tits and no one likes you."
"...yes."
Yeah, its been posted now. The problem I have, is what happens when they make keep contribution 'work' completelly? It would seem to shaft the people who need the gear most. If say a level 36 SM in Devestator gear and a level 40 SM in Dark Promise are both taking a keep, the SM in DP gear should smoke the level 36 SM. They will do more damage/tanking and thusly generate more contribution. Therefore, the level 40 will always get higher in raw contribution than the 36, reducing his chances of earning a gold bag, despite the fact that the 36 actually needs to the gold bag more than the 40. At least with an essentially random system the 36 is on more or less equal footing.
Anyhow, that is why I favor a tokenized system for the end game sets. It removes cruel chance and unequal competitions from what can essentially be deemed 'necessary' gear in a PvP game. You can even give people some purely cosmetic stuff to earn with large numbers of keep tokens as an additional carrot for people.
Personally I'd prefer a more sane version of the current system combined with a token system. Everyone who takes a keep gets a token which X number of can be turned in for a set piece or you can get lucky/actually work your ass off (assuming more sane version of contribution) and get them sooner. Figuring out a way to somewhat consistantly work the system on my Shadow Warrior was annoying.
We've had a WP stand stock still in a PQ and get 1st in contribution without healing, aura running, or anything. I've also seen the same tactic get absolute squat. Things I've seen as anecdotally helping as a tank, use your AoE taunt (as long as you have some healer help). I've said it before, just think of the system being 2 completely randomly generated numbers where the 2nd has a larger range of possible outcomes.
I'd "love" to see the instances giving out tokens, but keep contribution... would Happy's idea would be iffy. You want people still claiming keeps, and if you gave a large selection of people the tokens eventually you'd have a larger portion of the population who wouldn't go A LOT quicker than the current setup. A good compromise would possibly be to give a token in the current gold bags so that you don't get repeat gear. This way you would know that if you "did" get a gold bag you'd get something you could actually use instead of that 12th helmet.
And damnit servers, come up already. I've resorted to posting on the WAR forums about population imbalance already...
I know I did a little over 60 before finally getting full Devastator on my Shadow Warrior and I was really sick of the contribution system/RNG by the time that ended. At least that taught me not to wait until you're in the upper end of the tier to start going after RvR set pieces :P
I lucked out and got a BP and Helm within days of each other, maybe 10 keeps total. Just have boots left which I am contemplating buying from the effin auction house as they never fucking drop.
You can still end up with fairly perverse scenarios. What if there is a 40 that lacks a full Anni set. They will then be placed behind both sub-40's and 40's with better gears, despite the fact that they arguably need Anni gear more than either group (sub-40's because wards are necessary for further post-40 progression).
Hopefully 1.2 will help performance but more frames can never hurt!
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
XBL
Me want Choppa.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
there would probably be an uprising
I ran the patcher last night to preload the patch
but running it again today there's still a pretty large additional patch to dl
so don't expect to be able to log right in when you get home
I really need to take a leave of absense from work to do all the gaming I want to.
...This just went up on the Herald.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
How much parry?
Why does this game constantly tempt me to stay BO?
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
It's an equivalent to the IB Greataxe Mastery tactic, which is plus 10% damage and 5% parry with a greatweapon.
Should be the same.
They get stance based tactics that augment crit chance and parry?, one of the defensive abilities anyhow. Either parry or block.
Edit: Oh it is block AND parry.
Still waiting for the BO version to get buffed to work the same way.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Would the Dwarf town of Komar, now conquered by the greenskins, be the most recent dwarf town to fall to the Orcs?
Edit: @Dac:
It is now? well then. I'm gonna have to over the notes again, I did not see that when they first went up, Thanks for the info.
It's under Black Orc bug fixes.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow