So I just dove into the series with Persona 4. I had a friend who loved the other games in the series but I never really had time for JRPGs (I have even less now but oh well)
I'm finding I'm liking the gameplay and story and everything quite a bit. Unfortunately something that is making me somewhat frustrated and not wanting to go back to the game is spending an hour or so wandering through a dungeon, fighting all of the monsters and getting all of the items, only to have to fight the boss without saving and die a horrible death, therefore losing an hour of my time.
I don't think it is even supposed to be a very challenging thing in the game, but man, I don't know if I can keep playing this game if I play for so long before dying, with no chance to save before the boss. I guess that would destroy the challenge and is a big part of the series. But I have been working a lot and don't think I have any time for the game if this is going to happen. Sadface. Maybe I should have played it on easy.
You know you can leave, save, and come back to the floor you were on right?
... no. No I did not. That is going to make the game so much better. Thank you.
edit: Like I kind of said in a roundabout way, I have not played too many JRPGs, I am usually way too ADD for that kind of thing.
So I just dove into the series with Persona 4. I had a friend who loved the other games in the series but I never really had time for JRPGs (I have even less now but oh well)
I'm finding I'm liking the gameplay and story and everything quite a bit. Unfortunately something that is making me somewhat frustrated and not wanting to go back to the game is spending an hour or so wandering through a dungeon, fighting all of the monsters and getting all of the items, only to have to fight the boss without saving and die a horrible death, therefore losing an hour of my time.
I don't think it is even supposed to be a very challenging thing in the game, but man, I don't know if I can keep playing this game if I play for so long before dying, with no chance to save before the boss. I guess that would destroy the challenge and is a big part of the series. But I have been working a lot and don't think I have any time for the game if this is going to happen. Sadface. Maybe I should have played it on easy.
You know you can leave, save, and come back to the floor you were on right?
... no. No I did not. That is going to make the game so much better. Thank you.
edit: Like I kind of said in a roundabout way, I have not played too many JRPGs, I am usually way too ADD for that kind of thing.
ah. Glad we could make the game playable for you.
Aydr on
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
If I want to jump into this series, would 4 be the best? I was thinking about getting 3 FES since it's a little cheaper, but I was hoping for some your opinions.
If I want to jump into this series, would 4 be the best? I was thinking about getting 3 FES since it's a little cheaper, but I was hoping for some your opinions.
Thanks!
Persona 4 is easily the more streamlined, playable title, but 3 FES is still a fantastic game and I mark it as one of the defining RPGs of my gaming career.
If I want to jump into this series, would 4 be the best? I was thinking about getting 3 FES since it's a little cheaper, but I was hoping for some your opinions.
Yeah, just go for 4. P4 is the noticeably better game. If you find you really like P4, you can always pick up P3 later.
Okay, I think I'm finally grasping Nocturne's story now.
(Includes True Demon ending stuff)
So the Gaians and Messians were warring like usual, and Hikawa breaks away from them to recreate the world.
A few things I don't quite get...
Why do the Seraphs eventually side with him? Heretical Gaian or not, he's hardly got a Messian way of thinking.
And should I assume Lucifer allowed it to happen since he gave him a chance to strike at the Great Will?
What does ending the cycle of creation really accomplish? Yes it prevents another apocalypse, but nothing will ever be reborn again, either.
The Seraphs side with him because the Seraphs are the voice and will of God but because of that they aren't their own person. Therefore they have their purpose and don't stray from its path. Sounds exactly like Hikawa's world right? Metatron is the perfect example of this. Why do you think he has a robot body? He's a tool of God. He spreads the word and nothing else. He's a robot with one function. This is most likely why they sided with him.
Lucifer had no say in what happens to the world. The world we played through is not the first world. It can be any reincarnation. Sure it's possible that we played through the first world but what if it was the 20th world? What if it was the 3,000th? Lucifer simply watches the world go by because being in the Labyrinth, none of that stuff affects him. He's also watching in the hopes of finding new recruits, which is exactly what happened with the main.
Lastly, ending the cycle simply proves a point to God. Lucifer sees it as proof that God is not perfect because if he was then what happened to the world would not have occurred. It would have been reborn. This is also the perfect chance to rally the troops because it shows them that their enemy is not perfect. Victory can be had. Also if you remember the story about Aradia, there are countless worlds out there that the labyrinth is connected to. Think of them as alternate realities or you can have some fun and think of them as other games in the SMT series. Losing one means nothing to God in the grand scheme of things but it means everything to the demons.
Sounds a lot like what Azrael was trying to accomplish in Dogma: unmaking existence to prove God wrong.
Man... I really didn't get this much out of Nocturne's story. I feel like I need to replay it. My choice from the beginning was clear, I was going to do the True Demon Ending. Is more of the story fleshed out if you choose to go along another path? I've seen all of the endings (youtube!), but is there anything else that I may have missed?
Lucifer's quarrel with YHWH is no mystery to me, I understand that. Were the two factions ever called out as "Gaians" and "Messians" or is this supposed to be understood? I know those are the factions from the earlier SMT games, but I don't remember anything specifically being said about them in Nocturne. I also remember reading that journalist guy being the reincarnation of Aleph (I think?) from SMT2. He was reincarnated (with no memory of anything) for trying to kill YHWH in 2 right? It sounds like this story is much deeper than it lets on.
A friend may be picking it up soon and I told him I'd play through it on Hard while he plays it for his first time. That should be a blast...
I'm going to play Nocturne after I finish Eternal Punishment, although the jury is still out on whether or not I do two full runs and the bonus dungeon or jump ship after one run.
The thing is, I sort of want to dive in on hard mode. How bad can it be?
I'm going to play Nocturne after I finish Eternal Punishment, although the jury is still out on whether or not I do two full runs and the bonus dungeon or jump ship after one run.
The thing is, I sort of want to dive in on hard mode. How bad can it be?
You mean the bonus dungeon in Eternal Punishment? It's not worth it, mostly a relic for a bygone era when people grinded themselves to Jupiter for absolutely no reason. It's got nothing special save for a bevy of unique demons and a ball-busting secret boss who might have been the one to start that little tradition in the first place.
Good Lord, I'm reading some of the story bits from SMT1 and 2 from that MegaTen wiki. If there were ever games that needed a remake, it's those two. I've tried playing the first one about 5 times at this point. I just can't do it. The story sounds good though, and it's a shame that we haven't gotten an official localization yet.
I'm going to play Nocturne after I finish Eternal Punishment, although the jury is still out on whether or not I do two full runs and the bonus dungeon or jump ship after one run.
The thing is, I sort of want to dive in on hard mode. How bad can it be?
You mean the bonus dungeon in Eternal Punishment? It's not worth it, mostly a relic for a bygone era when people grinded themselves to Jupiter for absolutely no reason. It's got nothing special save for a bevy of unique demons and a ball-busting secret boss who might have been the one to start that little tradition in the first place.
Yeah, sorry I guess my phrasing was a little unclear. I was talking about the bonus dungeon in EP. Secret boss sounds kinda interesting I guess, but with so many other great titles in my backlog I don't know if I can merit back-to-back EP runs.
Emonk on
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Okay, I think I'm finally grasping Nocturne's story now.
(Includes True Demon ending stuff)
So the Gaians and Messians were warring like usual, and Hikawa breaks away from them to recreate the world.
A few things I don't quite get...
Why do the Seraphs eventually side with him? Heretical Gaian or not, he's hardly got a Messian way of thinking.
And should I assume Lucifer allowed it to happen since he gave him a chance to strike at the Great Will?
What does ending the cycle of creation really accomplish? Yes it prevents another apocalypse, but nothing will ever be reborn again, either.
The Seraphs side with him because the Seraphs are the voice and will of God but because of that they aren't their own person. Therefore they have their purpose and don't stray from its path. Sounds exactly like Hikawa's world right? Metatron is the perfect example of this. Why do you think he has a robot body? He's a tool of God. He spreads the word and nothing else. He's a robot with one function. This is most likely why they sided with him.
Lucifer had no say in what happens to the world. The world we played through is not the first world. It can be any reincarnation. Sure it's possible that we played through the first world but what if it was the 20th world? What if it was the 3,000th? Lucifer simply watches the world go by because being in the Labyrinth, none of that stuff affects him. He's also watching in the hopes of finding new recruits, which is exactly what happened with the main.
Lastly, ending the cycle simply proves a point to God. Lucifer sees it as proof that God is not perfect because if he was then what happened to the world would not have occurred. It would have been reborn. This is also the perfect chance to rally the troops because it shows them that their enemy is not perfect. Victory can be had. Also if you remember the story about Aradia, there are countless worlds out there that the labyrinth is connected to. Think of them as alternate realities or you can have some fun and think of them as other games in the SMT series. Losing one means nothing to God in the grand scheme of things but it means everything to the demons.
Sounds a lot like what Azrael was trying to accomplish in Dogma: unmaking existence to prove God wrong.
Man... I really didn't get this much out of Nocturne's story. I feel like I need to replay it. My choice from the beginning was clear, I was going to do the True Demon Ending. Is more of the story fleshed out if you choose to go along another path? I've seen all of the endings (youtube!), but is there anything else that I may have missed?
Lucifer's quarrel with YHWH is no mystery to me, I understand that. Were the two factions ever called out as "Gaians" and "Messians" or is this supposed to be understood? I know those are the factions from the earlier SMT games, but I don't remember anything specifically being said about them in Nocturne. I also remember reading that journalist guy being the reincarnation of Aleph (I think?) from SMT2. He was reincarnated (with no memory of anything) for trying to kill YHWH in 2 right? It sounds like this story is much deeper than it lets on.
A friend may be picking it up soon and I told him I'd play through it on Hard while he plays it for his first time. That should be a blast...
The Gaians and Messians are referenced in the Amala. They do exist in the Nocturne universe, so that makes it likely that it's connected to SMT II.
An NPC mentions before the world ends that they were having a protest in Yoyogi Park before Hikawa summoned a bunch of demons and slaughtered them all. You learn that in more detail in the Second Kalpa of the Amala Labyrinth.
So yeah, I learned a lot more about Nocturne's story the second time around. There's a lot more going on than I thought.
In more detail,
Hikawa was a Gaian, but was considered a heretic by his own faction, and discovered the scripture of Miroku. He then used that to start the Conception to bring about the world of his design.
You learn a lot more if you go into the Amala, but technically, it doesn't require you to go True Demon, since that's only set in stone if you reach the bottom.
I can't picture playing Nocturne without fighting each and every one of the Fiends, so I'm still doing the Amala even though I'm not going for TDE.
This makes me look forward to re-playing it even more. I tend to try to blast through a game as quickly and efficiently as possible the first time I play it, so I feel like I probably missed a lot of story details.
Exactly how many endings does Nocturne have? Do you need a guide to get them all?
Emonk on
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
Not at all. Nocturne's endings are easy to discover. TDE's is just hard to reach.
There's six: Demon, True Demon, Neutral, Shijima(Order), Yosuga(Might Makes Right) and Musubi(Isolationism).
Demon: side with no one (This ending sucks)
True Demon: Reach the bottom of the Amala Labyrinth (and face the true final boss)
For the other four, all you have to do is side with their respective faction when the major choices come along in the endgame. The lesser questions asked by demons and some NPCs affect your alignment beforehand, but the major ones are what determine the actual ending.
You guys are just really making me want to play Nocturne. I need to finish the game I'm playing right now, but that one's going into the system, like, IMMEDIATELY after.
So, I have a question: I've had this plan to go back through P3 on hard, using the ng+ to make sure I have access to the two of Elizabeth's challenges I didn't beat the first time around. Both are Monad-related, one is the random gold chest challenge and the other is the solo to the bottom of Monad to fight the boss. I was really looking forward to this. But then it occurred to me: how impossible is soloing Monad in hard mode? I saw someone mention that hard mode is slightly harder than The Answer, which was more than a little cheap at times.
Someone please tell me that doing this challenge is possible.
Hahahaha, fighting the boss of Monad won't make a difference. Trust me. You're boned no matter what you do. On normal you can still potentially take over 750 damage in one turn or just be completely decimated. It's like asking which part of Hell is hotter, the east or west side. Either way you're dead.
Gilder on
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
Victory Cry + Die For Me! = It's possible.
Soloing Monad, that is. The boss? Different story.
Hahahaha, fighting the boss of Monad won't make a difference. Trust me. You're boned no matter what you do. On normal you can still potentially take over 750 damage in one turn or just be completely decimated. It's like asking which part of Hell is hotter, the east or west side. Either way you're dead.
Yeah, the secret boss of P3 is basically Hitoshura without the joie de vivre. If you don't do things in a perfectly precise way every bloody turn you'll be reduced to a smoldering shadow on the far wall, and that's only if the boss is in a good mood. It might decide to blow you to pieces anyway.
That's really unfortunate. I was hoping I could complete those quests. Then I had a mental image of sinking 80 hours into hard mode, then realizing I would never, ever be able to do it. Ever.
That's probably still going to happen. At least I'll be less disappointed now.
I'd have to check to be sure, but I think my Nocturne playtime (True Demon Ending) was around 65 hours.
P3 took me over 100 hours, but I played the original, not FES, but I don't think the game lengths are really that different. I think I spent way more time in Tartarus than I really needed to though.
The two DDS games aren't too long individually (35-40 hours each) either unless you're going through with the intent of beating the game's uber bosses. I imagine there's a fair amount of grinding involved there...
And I'm hoping they increase the amount of secret/end game content for Devil Summoner 2 like they said. The only thing I didn't like about the first ps2 DS was that it ended.
I'd have to check to be sure, but I think my Nocturne playtime (True Demon Ending) was around 65 hours.
P3 took me over 100 hours, but I played the original, not FES, but I don't think the game lengths are really that different. I think I spent way more time in Tartarus than I really needed to though.
I'm a freak. I haven't finished P3 yet (I stopped playing a while back to delve into other titles and still haven't made it back) but I think I'm around 65 hours played right now. I don't remember what month I'm at but I know I just made it past:
the part where Shinjiro dies protecting Ken.
In my defense, when I first started playing the game I got stuck in a really long part where I couldn't save and I had to go to work. I just left the system on all day, so really you have to take about ten hours off my total.
For the first few months of the game I always went to Tartarus at every opportunity I had and stayed until everyone was tired. Add to that the required fusion experimentation sessions and the time added up pretty quick.
Damn I was hoping to have enough time to finish at least one during spring break but it looks like I'll only be able to get 3/4ths of the way through persona3
Not at all. Nocturne's endings are easy to discover. TDE's is just hard to reach.
There's six: Demon, True Demon, Neutral, Shijima(Order), Yosuga(Might Makes Right) and Musubi(Isolationism).
Demon: side with no one (This ending sucks)
True Demon: Reach the bottom of the Amala Labyrinth (and face the true final boss)
For the other four, all you have to do is side with their respective faction when the major choices come along in the endgame. The lesser questions asked by demons and some NPCs affect your alignment beforehand, but the major ones are what determine the actual ending.
Small correction, for True Demon you have to CLEAR the Labyrinth (i.e., beat the final boss in it and view the 'end of the dungeon' cutscene) before you set foot in the game's final dungeon.
In P4, what's the Physical persona I should aim to get?
I already have Surt and Odin, and that's probably enough for the rest of the game, but I want a little variety.
Also, how much more effective are Samsara and Die For Me! than the Mudo and Hama skills Naoto learns combined with their respective boosters? Is it worth using Daisoujo and Alice instead of a single Persona that learns both Light and Dark skills?
In P4, what's the Physical persona I should aim to get?
I already have Surt and Odin, and that's probably enough for the rest of the game, but I want a little variety.
Also, how much more effective are Samsara and Die For Me! than the Mudo and Hama skills Naoto learns combined with their respective boosters? Is it worth using Daisoujo and Alice instead of a single Persona that learns both Light and Dark skills?
Like Elendil said, Yoshitsune is by far the best for physical.
As for Light/Dark, if you're going to be using them on normal enemies (in other words, ones that aren't weak to them), you'll want the highest effectiveness possible so Samsara and Die For Me with their respective boosters are the way you'll wanna go. If you're just doing weaknesses...well, really there's no reason to go above the first rank, but the second rank is good enough.
Posts
... no. No I did not. That is going to make the game so much better. Thank you.
edit: Like I kind of said in a roundabout way, I have not played too many JRPGs, I am usually way too ADD for that kind of thing.
ah. Glad we could make the game playable for you.
I wasted way too much time adding that.
The Persona stuff seems well covered, but I'm sure a scholar or two from here could make it better.
Thanks!
Magic Online - Bertro
Persona 4 is easily the more streamlined, playable title, but 3 FES is still a fantastic game and I mark it as one of the defining RPGs of my gaming career.
Yeah, just go for 4. P4 is the noticeably better game. If you find you really like P4, you can always pick up P3 later.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Man... I really didn't get this much out of Nocturne's story. I feel like I need to replay it. My choice from the beginning was clear, I was going to do the True Demon Ending. Is more of the story fleshed out if you choose to go along another path? I've seen all of the endings (youtube!), but is there anything else that I may have missed?
A friend may be picking it up soon and I told him I'd play through it on Hard while he plays it for his first time. That should be a blast...
The thing is, I sort of want to dive in on hard mode. How bad can it be?
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
You mean the bonus dungeon in Eternal Punishment? It's not worth it, mostly a relic for a bygone era when people grinded themselves to Jupiter for absolutely no reason. It's got nothing special save for a bevy of unique demons and a ball-busting secret boss who might have been the one to start that little tradition in the first place.
Yeah, sorry I guess my phrasing was a little unclear. I was talking about the bonus dungeon in EP. Secret boss sounds kinda interesting I guess, but with so many other great titles in my backlog I don't know if I can merit back-to-back EP runs.
The Gaians and Messians are referenced in the Amala. They do exist in the Nocturne universe, so that makes it likely that it's connected to SMT II.
So yeah, I learned a lot more about Nocturne's story the second time around. There's a lot more going on than I thought.
In more detail,
You learn a lot more if you go into the Amala, but technically, it doesn't require you to go True Demon, since that's only set in stone if you reach the bottom.
I can't picture playing Nocturne without fighting each and every one of the Fiends, so I'm still doing the Amala even though I'm not going for TDE.
There's six: Demon, True Demon, Neutral, Shijima(Order), Yosuga(Might Makes Right) and Musubi(Isolationism).
Demon: side with no one (This ending sucks)
True Demon: Reach the bottom of the Amala Labyrinth (and face the true final boss)
For the other four, all you have to do is side with their respective faction when the major choices come along in the endgame. The lesser questions asked by demons and some NPCs affect your alignment beforehand, but the major ones are what determine the actual ending.
So, I have a question: I've had this plan to go back through P3 on hard, using the ng+ to make sure I have access to the two of Elizabeth's challenges I didn't beat the first time around. Both are Monad-related, one is the random gold chest challenge and the other is the solo to the bottom of Monad to fight the boss. I was really looking forward to this. But then it occurred to me: how impossible is soloing Monad in hard mode? I saw someone mention that hard mode is slightly harder than The Answer, which was more than a little cheap at times.
Someone please tell me that doing this challenge is possible.
Soloing Monad, that is. The boss? Different story.
Yeah, the secret boss of P3 is basically Hitoshura without the joie de vivre. If you don't do things in a perfectly precise way every bloody turn you'll be reduced to a smoldering shadow on the far wall, and that's only if the boss is in a good mood. It might decide to blow you to pieces anyway.
That's probably still going to happen. At least I'll be less disappointed now.
Or whatever they wind up calling him.
I think I had around 80/90 for P4, 102 for P3.
Some of that might have been idle time.
P3 took me over 100 hours, but I played the original, not FES, but I don't think the game lengths are really that different. I think I spent way more time in Tartarus than I really needed to though.
P3 FES altogether took me somewhere around 140-150 hours.
P4 took me I think...78 hours...Right around that yeah.
And I'm hoping they increase the amount of secret/end game content for Devil Summoner 2 like they said. The only thing I didn't like about the first ps2 DS was that it ended.
I'm a freak. I haven't finished P3 yet (I stopped playing a while back to delve into other titles and still haven't made it back) but I think I'm around 65 hours played right now. I don't remember what month I'm at but I know I just made it past:
In my defense, when I first started playing the game I got stuck in a really long part where I couldn't save and I had to go to work. I just left the system on all day, so really you have to take about ten hours off my total.
For the first few months of the game I always went to Tartarus at every opportunity I had and stayed until everyone was tired. Add to that the required fusion experimentation sessions and the time added up pretty quick.
Small correction, for True Demon you have to CLEAR the Labyrinth (i.e., beat the final boss in it and view the 'end of the dungeon' cutscene) before you set foot in the game's final dungeon.
I already have Surt and Odin, and that's probably enough for the rest of the game, but I want a little variety.
Also, how much more effective are Samsara and Die For Me! than the Mudo and Hama skills Naoto learns combined with their respective boosters? Is it worth using Daisoujo and Alice instead of a single Persona that learns both Light and Dark skills?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
As for Light/Dark, if you're going to be using them on normal enemies (in other words, ones that aren't weak to them), you'll want the highest effectiveness possible so Samsara and Die For Me with their respective boosters are the way you'll wanna go. If you're just doing weaknesses...well, really there's no reason to go above the first rank, but the second rank is good enough.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Except for Futsunushi with Primal Force and Power Charge against the final boss. Dominated.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Yeah, I now have:
DDS
DDS2
Nocturne
P3FES
P4
Cool. I am still on DDS, I think nearing the end since I am closing in on Nirvana, but I still haven't done any of the optional bosses.
I'm not buying any more games this year.
<ProfMoriarty> oh yeah. one time I PMed a picture of my penis to a forumer, and then I got a PM from Thanatos saying "nice girth"
3DS: 1607-3034-6970